Author Topic: Distant Memories - New live release  (Read 93427 times)

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #700 on: November 30, 2020, 03:25:35 PM »
By making a show run through a tool like ProTools, the benefit is everything is already pre programmed - there is no need to worry about pressing the right button to trigger whatever video or backing track or whatever - and when you're doing 100 shows a year this is removal of one potential headache. They want to deliver a specific show.
The problem is, the band become slaves to the machines, instead of the other way around, which is not what a live concert is about. A live concert is about being in the moment - performing in front of an audience in real time. If they feel it's necessary to use a crutch like taped backing vocals, then at least be willing to trigger them as if they were being performed live.

Why argue this issue in the first place? Because by sticking to the click, their performances are more wooden or rigid, which again is not what live performance is all about. I think what Neil Peart said regarding the issue sums it up quite nicely:
Quote
Until the Clockwork Angels tour I had never used a click track live, except once years ago to stay in sync with a rear-screen film. For this tour it was helpful because we had eight string players in the Clockwork Angels String Ensemble, and they sometimes needed it when I wasn't playing. Even in certain passages when I was playing, it helped us all to stay together.

I was also required to stay in tempo with some long, legato sequences of keyboard or vocal effects, and the tambo-click helped with that, too. Even so, I am glad to say that the click appears in only a tiny percentage of the show, and only when absolutely necessary - or at least, "absolutely helpful."

On most songs, I prefer to hold it together myself, and let the band be a living, breathing organism that can push and pull naturally. These days many bands perform to a preprogrammed basic track, often a computerized software program. We always resisted that rigidity.

If only JP would follow his WWRD mantra here...
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #701 on: November 30, 2020, 03:28:17 PM »
If I had the time right now, I'd find my clip from the Elton John concert I went to a couple years ago where he ripped on artists who play to a click, saying something along the lines of them not being real musicians.  I mean, I think that's an extreme view personally, but that's coming from a well respected musician so his opinion has some merit, much more so than my own opinion.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #702 on: November 30, 2020, 03:56:13 PM »
Devils advocate here a little but is there anything to be said for Rush and Elton John being mega successful acts playing huge shows who can afford to have top lighting technicians etc who can react to slight changes in tempo whereas DT still want to a sophisticated cool looking show but want to be able to pre-program it all and not pay for human beings to sit and manually do it.  I literally have zero clue what I’m talking about but, just a thought.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #703 on: November 30, 2020, 04:21:30 PM »
Devils advocate here a little but is there anything to be said for Rush and Elton John being mega successful acts playing huge shows who can afford to have top lighting technicians etc who can react to slight changes in tempo whereas DT still want to a sophisticated cool looking show but want to be able to pre-program it all and not pay for human beings to sit and manually do it.  I literally have zero clue what I’m talking about but, just a thought.

Money definitely comes to play, but I'd gladly take a less interesting video/light show to go without a click personally.

Offline TAC

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #704 on: November 30, 2020, 04:31:23 PM »
I've said this before, but with Dream Theater shows..

With MP-Concerts
Post MP-Performances
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #705 on: November 30, 2020, 04:33:30 PM »
I've said this before, but with Dream Theater shows..

With MP-Concerts
Post MP-Performances Theater

I'd say this, but yea, pretty accurate IMO.  I just see both a concert or theater show as performances.  As in, I do still think they are playing live and are there in front of us, it's just more staged now vs. being organic.

Offline Lupton

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #706 on: November 30, 2020, 04:49:28 PM »
All bands are free to do it however they want. Someone can correct me if I mispeak, but I think Iron Maiden hasn't been using click tracks for their recent studio albums. This (of course) allows the music to breathe more naturally. I  wonder how this would translates to their staged live presentation. They probably need "button pushers" to make it happen.

That being said, I'm completely happy with the choices made by Dream Theater regarding the way they want to present their shows. If playing to a click allows for a more "perfect" performance, and eliminates timing headaches with all the accompanying bells & whistles, then more power to them. I've personally got no problems with a live performance that sounds just like the album.   :tup

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #707 on: November 30, 2020, 04:56:38 PM »
Devils advocate here a little but is there anything to be said for Rush and Elton John being mega successful acts playing huge shows who can afford to have top lighting technicians etc who can react to slight changes in tempo whereas DT still want to a sophisticated cool looking show but want to be able to pre-program it all and not pay for human beings to sit and manually do it.  I literally have zero clue what I’m talking about but, just a thought.

Money definitely comes to play, but I'd gladly take a less interesting video/light show to go without a click personally.

I’ll be honest with you, if it wasn’t for people on here talking about it, I wouldn’t have given it a second’s thought. I’ve never really noticed an issue.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #708 on: November 30, 2020, 05:04:22 PM »
Devils advocate here a little but is there anything to be said for Rush and Elton John being mega successful acts playing huge shows who can afford to have top lighting technicians etc who can react to slight changes in tempo whereas DT still want to a sophisticated cool looking show but want to be able to pre-program it all and not pay for human beings to sit and manually do it.  I literally have zero clue what I’m talking about but, just a thought.

Money definitely comes to play, but I'd gladly take a less interesting video/light show to go without a click personally.

I’ll be honest with you, if it wasn’t for people on here talking about it, I wouldn’t have given it a second’s thought. I’ve never really noticed an issue.

I'm not a musician so a lot of the talk here sometimes enlightens me on things I don't have an ear for, but I've gone to A LOT of concerts, about 20 DT shows as well both with and without MP,  and you can start to notice bands who use click. It's only partly about lighting and video, as some bands don't have any of that and play to click and some bands have lots of those elements and don't.  At the end of the day, for me, I find I enjoy concerts without click because the tempo often goes up slightly which leads to a bit more live energy in the room.  As for a concert DVD, it goes both ways since you can't really feel that live feel on your couch, but the live versions often don't sound that different from album releases when they play to a click so without adds some more variety to their music, but then again you get a very accurate live representation.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #709 on: November 30, 2020, 05:11:19 PM »
Devils advocate here a little but is there anything to be said for Rush and Elton John being mega successful acts playing huge shows who can afford to have top lighting technicians etc who can react to slight changes in tempo whereas DT still want to a sophisticated cool looking show but want to be able to pre-program it all and not pay for human beings to sit and manually do it.  I literally have zero clue what I’m talking about but, just a thought.

Money definitely comes to play, but I'd gladly take a less interesting video/light show to go without a click personally.

I’ll be honest with you, if it wasn’t for people on here talking about it, I wouldn’t have given it a second’s thought. I’ve never really noticed an issue.

I first heard about it on this forum before I ever saw the band play and not once did I think about it the two times I saw DT live. *shrug*
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #710 on: November 30, 2020, 07:20:44 PM »
I think what people miss is the Spontaneity. Not playing to a click allows bands to be more Spontaneous.



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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #711 on: November 30, 2020, 08:08:53 PM »
All bands are free to do it however they want. Someone can correct me if I mispeak, but I think Iron Maiden hasn't been using click tracks for their recent studio albums. This (of course) allows the music to breathe more naturally. I  wonder how this would translates to their staged live presentation. They probably need "button pushers" to make it happen.

That being said, I'm completely happy with the choices made by Dream Theater regarding the way they want to present their shows. If playing to a click allows for a more "perfect" performance, and eliminates timing headaches with all the accompanying bells & whistles, then more power to them. I've personally got no problems with a live performance that sounds just like the album.   :tup

Me too...

Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8
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Offline TAC

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #712 on: November 30, 2020, 08:13:16 PM »
I've personally got no problems with a live performance that sounds just like the album.   :tup

I don't either, really. I mean, when I go to the show, I can see and hear them performing live (except for those canned backing vocals), and that works just fine to me. I still enjoy the boots too.

But LALP and BTFW sound so processed. At least Distant Memories does indeed sound live.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #713 on: November 30, 2020, 08:33:00 PM »
I've personally got no problems with a live performance that sounds just like the album.   :tup

I don't either, really. I mean, when I go to the show, I can see and hear them performing live (except for those canned backing vocals), and that works just fine to me. I still enjoy the boots too.

But LALP and BTFW sound so processed. At least Distant Memories does indeed sound live.


LALP, it's the keys being low in the mix, for me. And with BTFW it's the entire sound, I don't know what it is. But, it does have my favorite version of Scarred.
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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #714 on: November 30, 2020, 08:35:55 PM »
I think there were quite a few solo sections which were more difficult for JP to play in the MP days because MP would end up speeding songs up so much faster than they were originally. That being said, some songs just don't sound right live at the CD tempo - the end of TCOT is a great example. Any audio from that first tour when they were playing that... that ending is just so sluggish and has no energy and lacks the burst of emotion it had during the MP days before the click. But going back to the other hand, overall the production quality of the shows have increased due to the click track - as mentioned before, lighting and videos are now programmable to the tempo map of the song which makes changes happen at precisely the right moment. Lots of bands are doing it because it makes for a more flawless show. The only thing I wish they would cease doing is the taped backing vocals. It just looks silly when JP pretends to sing when in reality it's a tape. Unless his vocals are just low in the mix and he's actually singing along with the backing track. But there's clearly been a backing track on every tour since ADTOE.
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #715 on: November 30, 2020, 08:43:34 PM »
All bands are free to do it however they want. Someone can correct me if I mispeak, but I think Iron Maiden hasn't been using click tracks for their recent studio albums. This (of course) allows the music to breathe more naturally. I  wonder how this would translates to their staged live presentation. They probably need "button pushers" to make it happen.

That being said, I'm completely happy with the choices made by Dream Theater regarding the way they want to present their shows. If playing to a click allows for a more "perfect" performance, and eliminates timing headaches with all the accompanying bells & whistles, then more power to them. I've personally got no problems with a live performance that sounds just like the album.   :tup

Me too...

Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8

Interesting video. Mangini seemed a bit annoyed. I hope he doesn't read too many YouTube comments. I made the mistake of reading some of the comments in that video  :lol

The only thing I wish they would cease doing is the taped backing vocals. It just looks silly when JP pretends to sing when in reality it's a tape. Unless his vocals are just low in the mix and he's actually singing along with the backing track. But there's clearly been a backing track on every tour since ADTOE.

Apparently, Petrucci is really singing but his vocals are so low in the mix that he might as well not be singing.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #716 on: November 30, 2020, 08:47:06 PM »


Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8

Jeez, he even said in that video that playing in the band these days is more of a job than anything.  I get the sense that he doesn't have much fun playing in the band anymore.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #717 on: November 30, 2020, 08:49:00 PM »


Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8

Jeez, he even said in that video that playing in the band these days is more of a job than anything.  I get the sense that he doesn't have much fun playing in the band anymore.

I just heard him say he has a job to do.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #718 on: November 30, 2020, 09:03:45 PM »


Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8

Jeez, he even said in that video that playing in the band these days is more of a job than anything.  I get the sense that he doesn't have much fun playing in the band anymore.

I just heard him say he has a job to do.

Yup. And it's a big one. It's great to see him have that much of a role in the Live Production of the band.

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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #719 on: November 30, 2020, 11:52:18 PM »


Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8

Jeez, he even said in that video that playing in the band these days is more of a job than anything.  I get the sense that he doesn't have much fun playing in the band anymore.

I just heard him say he has a job to do.

Why do people assume that having a job to do is not having fun?

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #720 on: December 01, 2020, 02:54:35 AM »
I think what people miss is the Spontaneity. Not playing to a click allows bands to be more Spontaneous.

I saw DT a bunch of times though with Portnoy and never really noticed them doing too much off the cuff, it’s always been pretty much playing the song as it is on the album or occasionally a clearly rehearsed different version of the song like they did with The Killing Hand.  It’s very rare in the later Portnoy years (post Scenes) they played some improvised stuff like Beyond This Life on LAB.  If you watch Score for example, it’s pretty much album versions of every song unless my memory is tricking me.

I would say, seeing them on recent tours, they have actually seemed more relaxed and engaging on stage rather than more rigid. They move around more and interact with audience more. Yes they don’t have Portnoy’s stage presence but JLB has stepped up a bit in that regard and you get Rudess coming out with his keytar and even Myung occasionally steps forward to rock out with JP instead of just standing still like he used to.  Like I said, if no one had mentioned it, I would not have picked up on any difference in how they play.

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #721 on: December 01, 2020, 03:03:18 AM »
The only time I ever noticed the click was during A Change of Seasons. After so many variations of Portnoy kicking Innocence hard and fast, boy that section DRAGGED.  I remember rocking the hell out and the band not following me 'cause I was going too fast (well, it was actually the other way around I guess  :biggrin: )
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #722 on: December 01, 2020, 06:24:57 AM »
I'm not a musician so a lot of the talk here sometimes enlightens me on things I don't have an ear for, but I've gone to A LOT of concerts, about 20 DT shows as well both with and without MP,  and you can start to notice bands who use click. It's only partly about lighting and video, as some bands don't have any of that and play to click and some bands have lots of those elements and don't.
There's probably a difference in how extensive the click tracks are. You have bands that have the crew triggering all the effects and pre-recorded music like intros and outros on time, doing the lights along with the show, who play songs in different tempos than the album tempo, and you assume they don't play to a click, but then they come out and say they do. The click in those cases is probably not as extensive and is there just as an indicator that maybe something's going wrong.

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #723 on: December 01, 2020, 07:34:35 AM »
I saw DT a bunch of times though with Portnoy and never really noticed them doing too much off the cuff, it’s always been pretty much playing the song as it is on the album or occasionally a clearly rehearsed different version of the song like they did with The Killing Hand.  It’s very rare in the later Portnoy years (post Scenes) they played some improvised stuff like Beyond This Life on LAB.
Here are examples that come to mind that happened occasionally (although there may be others that I'm forgetting):
• spontaneous covers tacked on to the end of songs (especially during Touring Into Infinity and the 98 Holiday shows)
• purposefully speeding up and/or slowing down sections of songs (AFiL during M2000, PMU during World Tourbulence)
• the jamming at the end of Take the Time (World Tourbulence, Black Clouds) and Metropolis (Prog Nation 2008, Black Clouds)
• stand alone improvs, as well as improv sections in Beyond This Life and To Live Forever (Train of Thought), and Solitary Shell (Black Clouds)
• the stretched out intros to Scarred (World Tourbulence, Chaos in Motion), Schmedley Wilcox (Chaos in Motion)
• the crazy show in Glasgow in 2000
• one off covers (Escape From the Studio, Train of Thought, 20th Anniversary) - while not spontaneous, these were unexpected by the audience
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #724 on: December 01, 2020, 07:46:12 AM »
Speaking of Beyond this Life, I wonder about that stretched live section - was it different every time, or there was a "template" that the band followed and, while the jam was strictly a diversion from the studio version, it was give or take played the same every time? or was it really random, as in, one show it lasts 6 minutes and the next evening it lasts 7 minutes and a half?
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #725 on: December 01, 2020, 07:47:16 AM »
I've seen DT...14 times. The first was during the FII tour, the last was the DoT tour in March 2019. And while many of you no doubt have seen them more, I have always felt that the band had more energy with Portnoy. I'm not a musician. I sing, but it has been eons since I've been on stage performing, and even then, it was dive bars. So I don't pretend to know what goes into a production of the magnitude DT puts on.

The click track (which if memory served Portnoy hated to play with, and I think refused [check me on that if not accurate] to play with) really seems to make performances way more sterile. It doesn't mean that ALL bands who use one end up sterile, but it does IMO with Dream Theater because while the performance is great, the nature and complexity of DT's music has the musicians and the fans more paying attention to what's being played rather than vibing off the playing, if that makes sense.

The theater situation doesn't help. My favorite two Dream Theater shows were the 1998 holiday show at Irving Plaza in NYC, and the Feb. 2000 Metropolis PT. 2 show at...I think it was Roseland. Both were GA. Both totally different vibes. But both had an amazing connection between the band and the audience. You FELT the connection (I sure did on the latter, I got swept up during "Home" by the pit and ended up on the other side of the venue). Those were just intense feelings.

With Mangini, I have been told the band now uses click tracks all the time, and only are in theaters so there are seats. And while the old fogey that I have become enjoys the seats, and the performances are really tight, and its a great "show," it's very different experience. Not worse, but certainly not the same vibe that I had from the band in the shows I saw from 1998-2010 (or whenever MP left).

But DT is not alone in this at all. There are bands I've seen for years where the same happens. It can't be helped if you want multimedia all the time. You almost need the click to make it all happen. (Again, non-musician talking here.)

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Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #726 on: December 01, 2020, 08:12:41 AM »
I saw DT a bunch of times though with Portnoy and never really noticed them doing too much off the cuff, it’s always been pretty much playing the song as it is on the album or occasionally a clearly rehearsed different version of the song like they did with The Killing Hand.  It’s very rare in the later Portnoy years (post Scenes) they played some improvised stuff like Beyond This Life on LAB.
Here are examples that come to mind that happened occasionally (although there may be others that I'm forgetting):
• spontaneous covers tacked on to the end of songs (especially during Touring Into Infinity and the 98 Holiday shows)
• purposefully speeding up and/or slowing down sections of songs (AFiL during M2000, PMU during World Tourbulence)
• the jamming at the end of Take the Time (World Tourbulence, Black Clouds) and Metropolis (Prog Nation 2008, Black Clouds)
• stand alone improvs, as well as improv sections in Beyond This Life and To Live Forever (Train of Thought), and Solitary Shell (Black Clouds)
• the stretched out intros to Scarred (World Tourbulence, Chaos in Motion), Schmedley Wilcox (Chaos in Motion)
• the crazy show in Glasgow in 2000
• one off covers (Escape From the Studio, Train of Thought, 20th Anniversary) - while not spontaneous, these were unexpected by the audience

Is all of that spontaneous though, like throwing in covers such as the Freebird solo at the end of TTT or is that a rehearsed thing. I know, to the audience, it’s unexpected but if it’s planned, they can surely still do that type of thing with a click track if they chose to. They did change up Metropolis a bit on LALP, they changed up SDV on BTFW, there are some subtle differences on the new Blu-ray as well including Mangini’s ill-advised (imo) changes to the end of Finally Free.

I do accept they varied stuff from the studio versions more in the Portnoy era, especially early on.  I’ve seen every tour from FII onwards and did appreciate them throwing in some cool extras but I didn’t get the impression they were things that they just decided off the cuff, they were planned things it seemed to me and they still played most of the stuff as it is on the record.  I can’t point to them speeding up songs as I would not generally have noticed that at the time.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #727 on: December 01, 2020, 08:56:11 AM »


Mangini kinda pretty much says that the band isn't what it used to be, in this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UlBm-iuP8

Jeez, he even said in that video that playing in the band these days is more of a job than anything.  I get the sense that he doesn't have much fun playing in the band anymore.

I just heard him say he has a job to do.

Why do people assume that having a job to do is not having fun?

I don't know. That's not the impression I got from that interview.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #728 on: December 01, 2020, 09:14:39 AM »
I saw DT a bunch of times though with Portnoy and never really noticed them doing too much off the cuff, it’s always been pretty much playing the song as it is on the album or occasionally a clearly rehearsed different version of the song like they did with The Killing Hand.  It’s very rare in the later Portnoy years (post Scenes) they played some improvised stuff like Beyond This Life on LAB.
Here are examples that come to mind that happened occasionally (although there may be others that I'm forgetting):
• spontaneous covers tacked on to the end of songs (especially during Touring Into Infinity and the 98 Holiday shows)
• purposefully speeding up and/or slowing down sections of songs (AFiL during M2000, PMU during World Tourbulence)
• the jamming at the end of Take the Time (World Tourbulence, Black Clouds) and Metropolis (Prog Nation 2008, Black Clouds)
• stand alone improvs, as well as improv sections in Beyond This Life and To Live Forever (Train of Thought), and Solitary Shell (Black Clouds)
• the stretched out intros to Scarred (World Tourbulence, Chaos in Motion), Schmedley Wilcox (Chaos in Motion)
• the crazy show in Glasgow in 2000
• one off covers (Escape From the Studio, Train of Thought, 20th Anniversary) - while not spontaneous, these were unexpected by the audience

Is all of that spontaneous though, like throwing in covers such as the Freebird solo at the end of TTT or is that a rehearsed thing. I know, to the audience, it’s unexpected but if it’s planned, they can surely still do that type of thing with a click track if they chose to. They did change up Metropolis a bit on LALP, they changed up SDV on BTFW, there are some subtle differences on the new Blu-ray as well including Mangini’s ill-advised (imo) changes to the end of Finally Free.

I do accept they varied stuff from the studio versions more in the Portnoy era, especially early on.  I’ve seen every tour from FII onwards and did appreciate them throwing in some cool extras but I didn’t get the impression they were things that they just decided off the cuff, they were planned things it seemed to me and they still played most of the stuff as it is on the record.  I can’t point to them speeding up songs as I would not generally have noticed that at the time.
It's not necessarily that all of that was spontaneous.  But now, NOTHING is spontaneous, and CANNOT BE spontaneous.  They literally reproduce the CD.

If you aren't following a click, the performance can move and breathe, with the beat sometimes being sped up or slowed down, depending on a thousand different factors.  That's what makes live performances so wonderful.  I would much rather have those days back again with DT.

And before they went to the click, they had lighting guys manually doing the lighting changes.  They knew the songs, and knew their queues for changes.  They just wanted a bigger production, and decided that this was the way to get it.  It's fine, but it could be better.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #729 on: December 01, 2020, 09:24:20 AM »
Speaking of Beyond this Life, I wonder about that stretched live section - was it different every time, or there was a "template" that the band followed and, while the jam was strictly a diversion from the studio version, it was give or take played the same every time? or was it really random, as in, one show it lasts 6 minutes and the next evening it lasts 7 minutes and a half?

I'm sure it was planned beforehand, due to the curfew. So they had to have a template of an Arrangement, then under that arrangement, you can jam and add your own improv. Like ok, we'll jam this for 10 bars, and then switch to this for another 10, and then end on these last 5 bars repeated 4 times.

Most of that stuff was worked out in Soundcheck. Now I wonder, does the band do, full band soundchecks? Or is it just Mangini that doesn't soundcheck his drums?

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Online MirrorMask

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #730 on: December 01, 2020, 09:43:37 AM »
Speaking of Beyond this Life, I wonder about that stretched live section - was it different every time, or there was a "template" that the band followed and, while the jam was strictly a diversion from the studio version, it was give or take played the same every time? or was it really random, as in, one show it lasts 6 minutes and the next evening it lasts 7 minutes and a half?

I'm sure it was planned beforehand, due to the curfew. So they had to have a template of an Arrangement, then under that arrangement, you can jam and add your own improv. Like ok, we'll jam this for 10 bars, and then switch to this for another 10, and then end on these last 5 bars repeated 4 times.

Yeah, this makes totally sense. Knowing HOW LONG to go on, and be free within those pre-agreed extra time.
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Offline Evai

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #731 on: December 01, 2020, 09:48:49 AM »
Portnoy said in audio commentary that he had a 'silent cowbell' that only the band could hear, so they'd know know when to transition back into the song from a jam.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #732 on: December 01, 2020, 10:09:44 AM »
I saw DT a bunch of times though with Portnoy and never really noticed them doing too much off the cuff, it’s always been pretty much playing the song as it is on the album or occasionally a clearly rehearsed different version of the song like they did with The Killing Hand.  It’s very rare in the later Portnoy years (post Scenes) they played some improvised stuff like Beyond This Life on LAB.
Here are examples that come to mind that happened occasionally (although there may be others that I'm forgetting):
• spontaneous covers tacked on to the end of songs (especially during Touring Into Infinity and the 98 Holiday shows)
• purposefully speeding up and/or slowing down sections of songs (AFiL during M2000, PMU during World Tourbulence)
• the jamming at the end of Take the Time (World Tourbulence, Black Clouds) and Metropolis (Prog Nation 2008, Black Clouds)
• stand alone improvs, as well as improv sections in Beyond This Life and To Live Forever (Train of Thought), and Solitary Shell (Black Clouds)
• the stretched out intros to Scarred (World Tourbulence, Chaos in Motion), Schmedley Wilcox (Chaos in Motion)
• the crazy show in Glasgow in 2000
• one off covers (Escape From the Studio, Train of Thought, 20th Anniversary) - while not spontaneous, these were unexpected by the audience

Is all of that spontaneous though, like throwing in covers such as the Freebird solo at the end of TTT or is that a rehearsed thing. I know, to the audience, it’s unexpected but if it’s planned, they can surely still do that type of thing with a click track if they chose to. They did change up Metropolis a bit on LALP, they changed up SDV on BTFW, there are some subtle differences on the new Blu-ray as well including Mangini’s ill-advised (imo) changes to the end of Finally Free.

I do accept they varied stuff from the studio versions more in the Portnoy era, especially early on.  I’ve seen every tour from FII onwards and did appreciate them throwing in some cool extras but I didn’t get the impression they were things that they just decided off the cuff, they were planned things it seemed to me and they still played most of the stuff as it is on the record.  I can’t point to them speeding up songs as I would not generally have noticed that at the time.
It's not necessarily that all of that was spontaneous.  But now, NOTHING is spontaneous, and CANNOT BE spontaneous.  They literally reproduce the CD.

If you aren't following a click, the performance can move and breathe, with the beat sometimes being sped up or slowed down, depending on a thousand different factors.  That's what makes live performances so wonderful.  I would much rather have those days back again with DT.

And before they went to the click, they had lighting guys manually doing the lighting changes.  They knew the songs, and knew their queues for changes.  They just wanted a bigger production, and decided that this was the way to get it.  It's fine, but it could be better.


I have to ask, and this goes to everyone, What does "Reproduce the cd" mean?

To me, Reproducing a cd, is what Babymetal does for their song [urhttps://youtu.be/GAngV880iO4]Megitsune[/url], The intro is a tape then the band plays the song, It sounds kind of weird live doing this song in the middle of the set, but it's still an awesome song. This is what "Reproducing the cd" means to me.
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #733 on: December 01, 2020, 10:19:09 AM »
To me, reproducing the CD means playing everything live as it was recorded. That excludes stuff like a bunch of harmonies, layers, instruments the band members can't play, or can't play at the same time as their primary instruments etc. I like to hear & see a band (especially a band like DT) pull it off live. That's the enjoyment I get out of a live performance.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distant Memories - New live release
« Reply #734 on: December 01, 2020, 10:22:28 AM »
I wanna see the new DVD but I don't wanna buy it just yet.

It would be cool if this was on Netflix.