Author Topic: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)  (Read 337 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10112
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« on: September 16, 2020, 10:08:53 AM »
I don't know when it began, but it is fact the NFL has become politicized. And after some thought, I can see why people are upset at the NFL.

These players are paid to play football, nothing more and nothing less. Which means doing everything they can to better themselves for their job and bring out their best performance.

The NFL is a major corporation and the players are employees of that corporation. This corporation gives them the money in return for playing sports and getting fans in those seats, and making profit.

Now, imagine going to your job and then using that time to protest injustices your company has nothing to do with and wasting valuable production time. Or saying things during company time that brings negative attention to the company.

The players are now seeing the NFL's popularity and influence it has over people and are using it as a soapbox opportunity to speak about these injustices.

I could see their reasoning if they were being treated badly by The NFL, but apparently they are not and are happy to be playing Football.

It's come to the point where these protests have infiltrated into the game of Football and is more of a concern than the actual game of Football, which has changed it rules so much it's becoming Tag Football.

By using their off-time doing things that are beneficial for their community, it does more than using company time as a platform.



Now me, I couldn't care less. But the drama is becoming more interesting than the actual Games... :corn
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Online Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 22720
  • Gender: Male
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 10:54:04 AM »

The NFL is a major corporation and the players are employees of that corporation. This corporation gives them the money in return for playing sports and getting fans in those seats, and making profit.


The NFL is a major corporation whose cathedrals were/are heavily subsidized by the US taxpayer, who's paid by the taxpayer to play the anthem before every game and to glorify the military at every opportunity. As long as taxes are used to in any way support that sport, politics within it are fair game.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24206
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2020, 10:55:38 AM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

Personally, I agree with you that the politicization of the NFL has been a bad thing. It didn't start with Kap, though. It started when the NFL made games a giant infomercial for the military and its chauvinistic overseers. If the the NFL is going to promote the Team USA agenda, the players should be able to opt out, and the act of opting out is what turned the whole thing into a sideshow circus. Kap didn't run around the stadium with a "FUCK AMERICA" flag. He simply chose not to participate in a circle jerk, and that's what the people who now hate the NFL are pissed off about.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 2775
  • Gender: Male
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2020, 11:08:45 AM »
Combine this with Covid and my interest in all sports is at an all time low.

That being said, with the return of Husker Football I'll start following College Football at least. In regards to the NFL I'm pretty meh.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10112
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 11:53:57 AM »

The NFL is a major corporation and the players are employees of that corporation. This corporation gives them the money in return for playing sports and getting fans in those seats, and making profit.


The NFL is a major corporation whose cathedrals were/are heavily subsidized by the US taxpayer, who's paid by the taxpayer to play the anthem before every game and to glorify the military at every opportunity. As long as taxes are used to in any way support that sport, politics within it are fair game.

Well then that just changes things doesn't it.


It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

Personally, I agree with you that the politicization of the NFL has been a bad thing. It didn't start with Kap, though. It started when the NFL made games a giant infomercial for the military and its chauvinistic overseers. If the the NFL is going to promote the Team USA agenda, the players should be able to opt out, and the act of opting out is what turned the whole thing into a sideshow circus. Kap didn't run around the stadium with a "FUCK AMERICA" flag. He simply chose not to participate in a circle jerk, and that's what the people who now hate the NFL are pissed off about.

You know, I'm amazed the players haven't all just quit, got together and formed their own Football League. Now that'll show the NFL they're not fucking with their bullshit anymore.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 11:59:17 AM by Ben_Jamin »
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24206
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 12:27:04 PM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

Personally, I agree with you that the politicization of the NFL has been a bad thing. It didn't start with Kap, though. It started when the NFL made games a giant infomercial for the military and its chauvinistic overseers. If the the NFL is going to promote the Team USA agenda, the players should be able to opt out, and the act of opting out is what turned the whole thing into a sideshow circus. Kap didn't run around the stadium with a "FUCK AMERICA" flag. He simply chose not to participate in a circle jerk, and that's what the people who now hate the NFL are pissed off about.

You know, I'm amazed the players haven't all just quit, got together and formed their own Football League. Now that'll show the NFL they're not fucking with their bullshit anymore.
It certainly did in 1987.

Snarkiness aside, it's very much a symbiotic relationship. Both sides realize this, which is why there's revenue sharing and a fairly rigid CBA. You really can't compare the NFL to a McDonald's franchise. Anybody can flip burgers. Very few can play wide receiver at the NFL level, and nobody wants to watch players who can't.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 12:30:42 PM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

But at the end of the day, though, I may not have the choice to actually opt out with no harm no foul.  My choices may actually just be participate in the announcement or find work elsewhere.  I'm no fan of Kaepernick, and it doesn't really have much to do with his initial decision to kneel. 

Having said that, I'm not going to lie:  whether they CAN or CAN'T, SHOULD or SHOULDN'T, I will certainly cop to a significant level of issue fatigue.   Increasingly, EVERYTHING is a "statement".   Shoes with statements.  Headbands with statements.   Helmets with statements.  Endzone markers with statements.   There's a point where it gets tuned out, and for me I'm getting to the point where even if I agree with it, there's a little tremor of resentment.

I kind of miss the days of just gearing up to play ball. 

I'm blanking the September 24, 2001 reference.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24206
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 12:41:24 PM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

But at the end of the day, though, I may not have the choice to actually opt out with no harm no foul.  My choices may actually just be participate in the announcement or find work elsewhere.  I'm no fan of Kaepernick, and it doesn't really have much to do with his initial decision to kneel. 

Having said that, I'm not going to lie:  whether they CAN or CAN'T, SHOULD or SHOULDN'T, I will certainly cop to a significant level of issue fatigue.   Increasingly, EVERYTHING is a "statement".   Shoes with statements.  Headbands with statements.   Helmets with statements.  Endzone markers with statements.   There's a point where it gets tuned out, and for me I'm getting to the point where even if I agree with it, there's a little tremor of resentment.

I kind of miss the days of just gearing up to play ball. 

I'm blanking the September 24, 2001 reference.

I didn't look too hard at it, but it should be the first week back after 911. That's when football became the Team USA circle jerk.

I don't really disagree with you about statement fatigue. Though I got to that point 10 years ago, so I don't even start the game until as close to kickoff as possible. I'd rather miss a play than sit through all of the bullshit. I don't give a fuck about the national anthem. Or the ginormous flag. Or the flyovers. Or Joe Buck's toadying. If anything, I thought Kap brought a refreshing change to the whole thing, though I can certainly agree it's been played out.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed at the whole hypocrisy of chastising players like Kap. "If you don't want to celebrate your freedom you should shut up and go home!" Yeah, sounds about right for America.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10112
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 01:17:43 PM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

But at the end of the day, though, I may not have the choice to actually opt out with no harm no foul.  My choices may actually just be participate in the announcement or find work elsewhere.  I'm no fan of Kaepernick, and it doesn't really have much to do with his initial decision to kneel. 

Having said that, I'm not going to lie:  whether they CAN or CAN'T, SHOULD or SHOULDN'T, I will certainly cop to a significant level of issue fatigue.   Increasingly, EVERYTHING is a "statement".   Shoes with statements.  Headbands with statements.   Helmets with statements.  Endzone markers with statements.   There's a point where it gets tuned out, and for me I'm getting to the point where even if I agree with it, there's a little tremor of resentment.

I kind of miss the days of just gearing up to play ball. 

I'm blanking the September 24, 2001 reference.

I didn't look too hard at it, but it should be the first week back after 911. That's when football became the Team USA circle jerk.

I don't really disagree with you about statement fatigue. Though I got to that point 10 years ago, so I don't even start the game until as close to kickoff as possible. I'd rather miss a play than sit through all of the bullshit. I don't give a fuck about the national anthem. Or the ginormous flag. Or the flyovers. Or Joe Buck's toadying. If anything, I thought Kap brought a refreshing change to the whole thing, though I can certainly agree it's been played out.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed at the whole hypocrisy of chastising players like Kap. "If you don't want to celebrate your freedom you should shut up and go home!" Yeah, sounds about right for America.

Last year, I ended up listening to the Satellite Announcers and putting my TV on mute. They're way more entertaining when the game starts. We need guys like the dudes on American Ninja Warrior to be announcers.

And what Kap did, I also see as a protest to the NFL about the very thing of the Team USA circle jerk.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2020, 01:20:26 PM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

But at the end of the day, though, I may not have the choice to actually opt out with no harm no foul.  My choices may actually just be participate in the announcement or find work elsewhere.  I'm no fan of Kaepernick, and it doesn't really have much to do with his initial decision to kneel. 

Having said that, I'm not going to lie:  whether they CAN or CAN'T, SHOULD or SHOULDN'T, I will certainly cop to a significant level of issue fatigue.   Increasingly, EVERYTHING is a "statement".   Shoes with statements.  Headbands with statements.   Helmets with statements.  Endzone markers with statements.   There's a point where it gets tuned out, and for me I'm getting to the point where even if I agree with it, there's a little tremor of resentment.

I kind of miss the days of just gearing up to play ball. 

I'm blanking the September 24, 2001 reference.

I didn't look too hard at it, but it should be the first week back after 911. That's when football became the Team USA circle jerk.

I don't really disagree with you about statement fatigue. Though I got to that point 10 years ago, so I don't even start the game until as close to kickoff as possible. I'd rather miss a play than sit through all of the bullshit. I don't give a fuck about the national anthem. Or the ginormous flag. Or the flyovers. Or Joe Buck's toadying. If anything, I thought Kap brought a refreshing change to the whole thing, though I can certainly agree it's been played out.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed at the whole hypocrisy of chastising players like Kap. "If you don't want to celebrate your freedom you should shut up and go home!" Yeah, sounds about right for America.

Haha, not to double down, but I have "hypocrisy fatigue" too.

I figured as much about 911, but wanted to make sure. 

Online cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 25877
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2020, 01:30:10 PM »
It's amazing how many of my friends get so worked up over this.  I just tune it out.  I don't really care what anyone who plays sports for a living has to say.  I'm so over everyone having an opinion that I somehow must need to listen and care about.  Pass.  I used to have more opinions myself on all this, but I've just lost interest since it's non stop.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 10112
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2020, 02:03:26 PM »
It's amazing how many of my friends get so worked up over this.  I just tune it out.  I don't really care what anyone who plays sports for a living has to say.  I'm so over everyone having an opinion that I somehow must need to listen and care about.  Pass.  I used to have more opinions myself on all this, but I've just lost interest since it's non stop.

For some, Football is exactly how we view live music, as an escape from the turmoils of life. Now, it's infiltrated their escape and are left without a venture for that escapism and are faced with dealing with Reality. Sure they could go to local games or watch college football (which I'm sure they likely do), but it's not as easy of an access in terms of bonding.

In other words, those people need to stop putting Football and TV so highly in their lives.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline emtee

  • Posts: 1375
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2020, 02:04:12 PM »
The NFL can travel down any path they feel the need to.

That being said, the pre-game shows on Sunday were a real miss for me. I've already heard enough about how much I suck, as a privileged white guy, to last a lifetime. Combine that with no fans, piped in sound, and I'm borderline here on out. Maybe I'll watch a game of two, maybe I'll go surf fishing.

Online cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 25877
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2020, 02:07:12 PM »
n other words, those people need to stop putting Football and TV so highly in their lives.

oh 100%

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 41993
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2020, 02:10:09 PM »
Now, imagine going to your job and then using that time to protest injustices your company has nothing to do with and wasting valuable production time. Or saying things during company time that brings negative attention to the company.
That's kind of apples and oranges, though, since 99% of jobs held by other Americans aren't in the entertainment industry, like the NFL.  It's just different.  Just because I can't do things like this at my job doesn't mean that they shouldn't at theirs.  It's just not comparable.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 02:46:36 PM »
The NFL can travel down any path they feel the need to.

That being said, the pre-game shows on Sunday were a real miss for me. I've already heard enough about how much I suck, as a privileged white guy, to last a lifetime. Combine that with no fans, piped in sound, and I'm borderline here on out. Maybe I'll watch a game of two, maybe I'll go surf fishing.

You know, emtee, this past Labor Day, I made a conscious decision to maximize my time outside.   I golfed a bit, I burned some brush in the yard, chopped some trees.  No TV, no screens... it wasn't earth shattering, but I DID notice a difference in my temperament (positive) and a sort of equal impact (negative) when I went back into it.   

I still have to work, but I have cut my TV watching down.  No pregame, no cable news (I've been doing that for a while)... I'm not anti-information; I will watch my local news, but increasingly, I'm not interested in other people's opinions delivered as fact.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24206
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2020, 03:08:17 PM »
The NFL is really the only vestige of traditional TV I've got left. It's still a fine product, though, and I'm glad it's there. I'm content to ignore the preaching, which all comes before the game anyway, and I've mostly learned to tune out commercials, too.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 25877
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2020, 03:15:07 PM »
The NFL is really the only vestige of traditional TV I've got left. It's still a fine product, though, and I'm glad it's there. I'm content to ignore the preaching, which all comes before the game anyway, and I've mostly learned to tune out commercials, too.

I was surprised with how well the product was last weekend, even with fake crowd noises the game still felt the same to me. 

Since all the political stuff is early, it's easy just to tune out the beginning as you stated earlier.  I guess because there's really little else to do these days, I for the first time in awhile, really enjoyed an NFL sunday.  Also helps that I have Sunday Ticket for free.

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44397
  • Gender: Male
  • Head Judge of the Peanut Gallery
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 06:10:26 PM »
It began 19 years ago next Thursday, to be exact.

Now, imagine going to your job and being told you have to participate in a televised public service announcement for the Ku Klux Klan. It has nothing to do with what you're being paid to do and celebrates a cause you have no interest in supporting. You're being paid to play football, not serve as a cheerleader for a cause that's wronged you.

Personally, I agree with you that the politicization of the NFL has been a bad thing. It didn't start with Kap, though. It started when the NFL made games a giant infomercial for the military and its chauvinistic overseers. If the the NFL is going to promote the Team USA agenda, the players should be able to opt out, and the act of opting out is what turned the whole thing into a sideshow circus. Kap didn't run around the stadium with a "FUCK AMERICA" flag. He simply chose not to participate in a circle jerk, and that's what the people who now hate the NFL are pissed off about.

Bart, this is a great post, and I totally buy it.


Having said that, I'm not going to lie:  whether they CAN or CAN'T, SHOULD or SHOULDN'T, I will certainly cop to a significant level of issue fatigue.   Increasingly, EVERYTHING is a "statement".   Shoes with statements.  Headbands with statements.   Helmets with statements.  Endzone markers with statements.   There's a point where it gets tuned out, and for me I'm getting to the point where even if I agree with it, there's a little tremor of resentment.

I agree with this too.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10689
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 07:27:32 PM »
I will say that the day my employer mandates a nationalistic ceremony as a prerequisite for employment where opting out becomes against the rules...will be the same day I call a lawyer.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9481
  • Gender: Male
  • Inglourious Basstard
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 08:47:39 PM »
I don't feel completely strongly about this, and appreciate where you all are coming from, but I don't think standing while someone sings a song for 2 minutes is a massive ask by an employer. But then there is this great point, which sums things up as succinctly as only EB can.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed at the whole hypocrisy of chastising players like Kap. "If you don't want to celebrate your freedom you should shut up and go home!" Yeah, sounds about right for America.

Though I got to that point 10 years ago, so I don't even start the game until as close to kickoff as possible. I'd rather miss a play than sit through all of the bullshit. I don't give a fuck about the national anthem. Or the ginormous flag. Or the flyovers. Or Joe Buck's toadying. If anything,

No doubt. I guessed wrong on when to turn on SB48 and seeing the Hawks with a 2-0 threw me for a loop.

I don't mind the politicizing, but I do mind the way it is handled. Things like how players can put slogans on their uniforms, but only those pre-approved by the league just smacks of trying to appease the mob rather than letting players voice their individual concerns.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2020, 07:45:08 AM »
I will say that the day my employer mandates a nationalistic ceremony as a prerequisite for employment where opting out becomes against the rules...will be the same day I call a lawyer.

And do what?   That lawyer is likely going to tell you the same thing I will:  absent a specific contract that says otherwise, you're an at-will employee.   If you don't like the "nationalistic ceremony", then this job isn't for you.  You don't have an entitlement to the job.   

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2020, 07:46:25 AM »
I don't feel completely strongly about this, and appreciate where you all are coming from, but I don't think standing while someone sings a song for 2 minutes is a massive ask by an employer. But then there is this great point, which sums things up as succinctly as only EB can.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed at the whole hypocrisy of chastising players like Kap. "If you don't want to celebrate your freedom you should shut up and go home!" Yeah, sounds about right for America.

Though I got to that point 10 years ago, so I don't even start the game until as close to kickoff as possible. I'd rather miss a play than sit through all of the bullshit. I don't give a fuck about the national anthem. Or the ginormous flag. Or the flyovers. Or Joe Buck's toadying. If anything,

No doubt. I guessed wrong on when to turn on SB48 and seeing the Hawks with a 2-0 threw me for a loop.

I don't mind the politicizing, but I do mind the way it is handled. Things like how players can put slogans on their uniforms, but only those pre-approved by the league just smacks of trying to appease the mob rather than letting players voice their individual concerns.

It doesn't "smack of", it "IS".    :) :) :) :)

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10689
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2020, 08:12:40 AM »
I will say that the day my employer mandates a nationalistic ceremony as a prerequisite for employment where opting out becomes against the rules...will be the same day I call a lawyer.

And do what?   That lawyer is likely going to tell you the same thing I will:  absent a specific contract that says otherwise, you're an at-will employee.   If you don't like the "nationalistic ceremony", then this job isn't for you.  You don't have an entitlement to the job.

That doesn’t give any employer the right to violate your civil liberties.

If someone (like me for instance) had religious reasons for not participating, then that would be a lawsuit.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2020, 08:48:03 AM »
I will say that the day my employer mandates a nationalistic ceremony as a prerequisite for employment where opting out becomes against the rules...will be the same day I call a lawyer.

And do what?   That lawyer is likely going to tell you the same thing I will:  absent a specific contract that says otherwise, you're an at-will employee.   If you don't like the "nationalistic ceremony", then this job isn't for you.  You don't have an entitlement to the job.

That doesn’t give any employer the right to violate your civil liberties.

If someone (like me for instance) had religious reasons for not participating, then that would be a lawsuit.

Maybe, maybe not.  You'd have to show that, though.  It's not a fait accompli.   "Civil liberty" doesn't mean "I get to do whatever I want".   Employers "violate" (in quotes because I don't view it as a violation) your "civil liberties" (in quotes because I'm not sure that's what they are) all the time.  Your use of a corporate computer.  Drug testing.   Social media reviews/monitoring.   Your use of a corporate cell phone.   It happens all the time, and it's a choice you make for that job.   
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 10:24:26 AM by Stadler »

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24206
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 09:11:37 AM »
I typed up a reply to this but apparently didn't hit post.

The religious angle is an interesting one. Just spitballing here, but I think it might have some merit (whereas the free speech angle certainly would not). Not forcing you into a circle jerk seems like it would easily fall under the "reasonable accommodation" category if there's a solid religious reason why you couldn't participate. I think a lot of us remember the weird kids in grade school who stay seated (or even leave the room) during the pledge of allegiance. In this case it just wouldn't be an imposition since jerking off to the flag isn't actually the key component of your job.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10689
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 09:36:15 AM »
In the Supreme Court ruling regarding the school children Barto mentioned, Judge Robert H Jackson wrote:

“If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.”
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 10:30:46 AM »
In the Supreme Court ruling regarding the school children Barto mentioned, Judge Robert H Jackson wrote:

“If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.”

The irony of that statement - in the context of other subject, not this one - crashed my computer and interrupted my wi-fi.   ;) ;) :) :)   Much of the conversation (in general) in our national discourse is EXACTLY about prescribing political or opinion orthodoxies.   And don't get me started about forced confessions of faith in those orthodoxies. 

Having said that, though, that's the GOVERNMENT, not individual employers, though there is admittedly some overlap (through law). 

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10689
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 11:20:40 AM »
So, no government official can impose his will on you...but a fellow citizen (or group entity) can?
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24206
  • Bad Craziness
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 11:30:51 AM »
So, no government official can impose his will on you...but a fellow citizen (or group entity) can?
SAY HER NAME! SAY HER NAME!
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22869
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The politicalization of The NFL (and sports in general)
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2020, 01:00:47 PM »
So, no government official can impose his will on you...but a fellow citizen (or group entity) can?

I'm not sure what you're asking because as I interpret it, the answer is a big ol' "oh hell yeah"...