Author Topic: How do you "hear" music?  (Read 1931 times)

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Offline jammindude

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How do you "hear" music?
« on: September 10, 2020, 11:40:11 AM »
A conversation in the Tool thread, as well as a conversation I had with my wife once really blew my mind. 

I have always been fascinated by the rhythm in music.  The first time I heard hard rock (when I was about 11 and Back in Black had just come out) I was drawn in by the energy.   But then when I was 12, I heard Tom Sawyer at a 6th grade graduation party, and I was completely enamored by the interesting rhythms and I fell in love right away.   

I always wondered if this was, at least in part, because of my musical indoctrination as a child.  Not just that my father exposed me to classical, but actually taught me how to focus on the different layers within the music that were often happening simultaneously.  So even though my young mind could be briefly enamored by a new pop song of the time, and I had a brief stint enjoying top 40 music, I realized very quickly that those songs became boring very quickly while the more intricate patterns of progressive rock kept things far more interesting on repeated listens. 

A big revelation came to me when I was listening to Master of Puppets with my wife around.   She had never been a big Metallica fan but her kids were (she's a bit older than me) so she was familiar with the song.   But I remember pointing out to her that the main riff skipped a beat on every other bar (I don't know how else to describe it because I didn't study music, but I've always counted it as a bar of 8 and a bar of 7).   And she said that even though she's heard the song dozens of times, she never noticed that the beat did that.  She just heard the "riff".   

That BLEW MY MIND.   How can you just "hear the riff" and not notice the beat change?   And that got me to thinking that maybe people hear completely different things in the same song.   

Today, even when I'm listening to Deathless by Haken for instance.   That instrumental section is not just some "cool mellow jazzy thing with cool solos", what I hear is this really sick pattern that the bass is picking out.   A beat that I count off as a 123-12-123-1234 in very quick succession.  Then near the end, the rhythm section seems to be in a completely different time signature than the guitars and they are weaving in and out of "phase" and that what makes it a real treat to listen to. 

To me, songs should be like "puzzle boxes" (no pun intended).   I find joy in figuring out what the pattern is.  That's why I loved Dream Theater in the first place.    The jazzy change ups in Take the Time, the leapfrogging time jumps in Surrounded, the crazy instrumental section of Metropolis that I still haven't figured out, the opening riff to Under a Glass Moon that takes an unexpected hop just before the vocals kick in.    I like to hear odd patterned riffs and not just something that "sounds cool" which will bore me if it's too repetitive.

I wish I had studied music, because maybe then I would be able to better explain what my brain is hearing.   

The intro of Giants Lore by Fates Warning (from Guardian) as an example is one of my favorite riffs.    When I was a teenager, I was convinced that they were playing around with time signatures in that riff.   But then one of my drummers (who had studied a bit) pointed out to me that the drummer was actually playing out a 4/4 beat, but the guitarist was just jumping around between "on" beats and "off" beats to make it sound weird.     But I've noticed that Jim Matheos tends to do that a bit because I've heard him do similar things in OSI.

Is any of this making sense to anyone?   I suppose I'm putting this out there as a sortof "test for echo" (ok, that pun is intended).   Maybe it's just because I've been feeling like I have difficulty relating to people lately.   IDK.   Maybe I'm just ranting.  :mehlin
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2020, 11:54:24 AM »
How do I hear music? 100% analytically all the time. (or I misunderstood the question)
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Online Adami

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2020, 11:55:59 AM »
Objectively.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2020, 11:58:59 AM »
Did anyone even read what I wrote at all? 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2020, 12:03:08 PM »
People absolutely hear music different ways, both physically ("synesthesia") and mentally.   I think the relative popularity of different genres - hip-hop, pop, jazz, country - and artists within those genres - Paul McCartney, Eminem, Miles Davis, Garth Brooks - is proof positive.  It's also why I go out of my way to stick up for the "pop" artists in those periodic but inevitable "music snob" threads.   

As long as you recognize that your approach is not absolute and respect that others put the same emphasis on entirely different criteria, things are fine.   

Personally, I'm intrigued by "complex", but it's not a  be all and end all for me.  I love melody.   That IS a be-all and end-all.  If a song has melody, I'm in.  Which is why I like Justin Beiber's "U Smile" as much as I like more "acceptable" works that get discussed here.   It's also why I like Genesis and Neal Morse and Dream Theater so much; they had a knack for combining the complexity of composition with the simplicity of an ear worm melody in a way that kept me coming back. 

Offline Crow

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2020, 12:06:50 PM »
with my ears :neverusethis:

Offline HOF

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2020, 12:14:58 PM »
I don’t necessarily have the technical or theoretical understanding to identify something like a change in time signature, but I do enjoy trying to identify the nuances in music. For me it might be more just the way an artist used different instruments, harmony, rhythms, etc. to convey something. I probably pay more attention to production details than things like time signatures, but that’s more because I just don’t know how to identify them. I do care a lot about the sort of emotional impact of music and not just the structure though, and I tend to think most people focus more on whatever emotional or psychological effect a piece of music has (how does it make me feel) than what you are describing.

What is cool to me is when someone breaks down a familiar piece of music into its theoretical components (like Rick Beato does) and something that seems like it must have just been intuitive to the artist (and in many cases probably was) turns out to be really complex or sophisticated theoretically. In fact I’ve been surprised by how many basic rock or pop songs he talks about are really more complex than is immediately apparent.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 12:36:22 PM by HOF »

Offline Zantera

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2020, 12:16:48 PM »
Despite having listened to so much music through my life, and made music myself, i'm useless with anything music theory related. When it comes to beats or how many bpms someone is playing at or what tempo a song is in - i couldn't even make a qualified guess to save my life. I guess I also don't really have that much interest in it. If it sounds good to me then I will enjoy it. :p

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2020, 12:21:59 PM »
I have no idea. I like what I like, but I can't really quantify it beyond that.

Online Adami

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2020, 12:25:53 PM »
I listen to music in a whole lot of ways. Not sure there's any patterns.

Sometimes, just like jamminbro, I listen to the rhythms. However, and I've been listening to Metallica for over 20 years, but I never noticed MoP skipped a beat on that riff. It just felt so natural and I didn't realize the missing beat til you just pointed it out and I counted it in my head. But sometimes, I get really into the rhythms and how odd they are.

Sometimes I get really into the melody. Just the specific note choices and and so forth and find it fascinating.

Sometimes I listen for the orchestral complexity of a piece.

Sometimes I listen for the personality or attitude or emotion of a song.

And then I listen to stuff that doesn't have much of any of that going on. I dunno.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2020, 12:28:00 PM »
This question has me flummoxed because I am a stickler about the difference between 'hearing' and 'listening.'

I hear music analytically. I don't know why that is, maybe it's from music curriculum conditioning. So I tend to hear what I'm hearing... and kinda visualize it in the form of a rough score in my head, with the notes and bars and where the modulation occurs etc. I also hear each style of music differently yet pretty much the same; sound enters ear, brain processes sound. But I don't hear pop music the same way I listen to Horowitz playing Chopin. You know?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2020, 12:31:59 PM »
I listen to music in a whole lot of ways. Not sure there's any patterns.

Sometimes, just like jamminbro, I listen to the rhythms. However, and I've been listening to Metallica for over 20 years, but I never noticed MoP skipped a beat on that riff. It just felt so natural and I didn't realize the missing beat til you just pointed it out and I counted it in my head. But sometimes, I get really into the rhythms and how odd they are.

Sometimes I get really into the melody. Just the specific note choices and and so forth and find it fascinating.

Sometimes I listen for the orchestral complexity of a piece.

Sometimes I listen for the personality or attitude or emotion of a song.

And then I listen to stuff that doesn't have much of any of that going on. I dunno.
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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2020, 12:38:11 PM »
I already love this thread and will definitely reply with a better answer than this one, but I want to go home first.
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Offline romdrums

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2020, 12:43:44 PM »
Like Adami, I listen to music in a whole lot of ways.  I, on average, listen to music for 8-10 hours a day, nearly every day.  I'm always on the lookout for new stuff.  I also will have periods where I go back and listen to old favorites to find new things.  Music affects me mentally, physically, and emotionally.  Sometimes, I will analyze it and pick it apart to find out what's going on from a rhythmic, melodic, harmonic and production standpoint.  Other times, I will let myself get lost in the music, letting the textures and orchestrations sort of wash over me, if that makes sense.  I'm also synesthetic, so I will oftentimes see colors when I listen to music, red/pink/purple hues being the strongest.  Occasionally, I will disagree with an album's cover art choice because that's not the color palette I see when I listen to the music, but the layout art will be more agreeable.  For instance, I don't feel the cover art for Marillion's Afraid of Sunlight matches the music at all, but the inside art feels more sympathetic to it, whereas the cover art for Yes's Relayer is a near perfect marriage of music and album art.  As a drummer, I also have a heightened sensitivity to snare drum sounds on a record.  One of the main reasons I hate the Eagles is that Don Henley's drum sound is so awful.  Like, consistently awful.  And don't get me started on St. Anger!  I could go on and on about this, but I should get back to work.  ;)
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2020, 12:46:09 PM »
I think I go through phases when listening to music.

For example if I'm hearing a song for the first time I'm usually taking it all and I try to get lost in the music. After repeat listens I'll start keying in on different instruments and vocals and how the add to the song. One thing I love is that when I hear a song I'm familiar with in a new context, like listening to a song for the first time over a different pair of headphones, or in the car and hearing the different parts of the song get brought out in the mix.

Offline jammindude

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2020, 12:55:16 PM »
LOVING the thought out responses so far.   Thank you, guys.

It got me to thinking that another thing that shaped my way of listening to music (and one of the reasons I became so obsessed with Rock Band for awhile) was the fact that I would literally "air guitar" in my room for 6-8 hours a day.   Now, part of doing that was focusing on the exact parts I was seeking to recreate and making sure that even the slightest hand or finger motion matched something that was happening in the music.   Music that was overly simplistic became a bit boring to recreate.   Complex music actually had to be practiced so that you follow, or "tap out", every single note with precision accuracy.   

I don't air guitar anymore, but I have noticed that when I listen to Haken in the car, I still "tap out" beats on the steering wheel, and if I mess it up, I have to keep listening to it over and over again until I can tap it out in perfect sync with what's happening.   

Even after 28 years, I still haven't quite been able to pull this off with the instrumental section of Metropolis, but that's what keeps it fun.   It's still a challenge. 
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Offline Revenge319

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2020, 12:56:31 PM »
Despite most of my favorite music being progressive rock/metal (Dream Theater, Haken, Between the Buried and Me, Porcupine Tree, Transatlantic), I have basically no grasp on music theory. I don't even know for sure how to count a 4/4 time signature. Whenever I really focus on music, I tend to pay more attention to the notes being played rather than the beat they're part of. I can definitely appreciate the complexity that goes into abnormal time signatures and stuff like that, but only on the level of "Wow, these musicians are amazing to be able to write and play this stuff!"
So as for how I usually hear music, it mainly comes down to how much I enjoy listening to it, whether the song is just so satisfying to listen to or if it's an emotionally cathartic experience. Feeling emotion when listening to music is very important to me. There doesn't need to be emotion for me to love a song, but I've found that my all-time favorite songs generally have a pretty good amount of emotion in them.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2020, 01:45:04 PM »
LOVING the thought out responses so far.   Thank you, guys.

It got me to thinking that another thing that shaped my way of listening to music (and one of the reasons I became so obsessed with Rock Band for awhile) was the fact that I would literally "air guitar" in my room for 6-8 hours a day.   Now, part of doing that was focusing on the exact parts I was seeking to recreate and making sure that even the slightest hand or finger motion matched something that was happening in the music.   Music that was overly simplistic became a bit boring to recreate.   Complex music actually had to be practiced so that you follow, or "tap out", every single note with precision accuracy.   

I don't air guitar anymore, but I have noticed that when I listen to Haken in the car, I still "tap out" beats on the steering wheel, and if I mess it up, I have to keep listening to it over and over again until I can tap it out in perfect sync with what's happening.   

Even after 28 years, I still haven't quite been able to pull this off with the instrumental section of Metropolis, but that's what keeps it fun.   It's still a challenge.
the one at the end before James' final part? That's a 12-measure form of 5-7-5-7-5-7-5-7-5-5-7. (mostly) Easy. If you think Met1 is a challenge to figure out, try the instrumental sections in Outcry or Illu for size. (just saying.) Although, yes, they were a challenge to figure out for the first time (for my 8 year old pea brain at the time :D ) so I can definitely see where you're coming from there.  Enjoy the complex aspects in music going forward. :D
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 01:52:10 PM by Max Kuehnau »
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2020, 02:03:59 PM »
How do I hear music? 100% analytically all the time. (or I misunderstood the question)
forgot to mention: as a child, I didn't listen to everything purely analytically (although I did even then to some degree, , I guess it was 60% emotionally and 40% analytically at that time). Me listening entirely analytically happened 2004 for the first time. (after going through psychological trauma)
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Helping me understand exactly who I am"

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2020, 03:15:40 PM »
Some music just feels good.

I listen to a lot of jazz, and some of it is kind of weird, but I definitely don't analyze it very often.  I mean, to a certain degree, with some individual pieces, I might, but overall, I'm just listening and feeling.  My 17 year old calls it "vibing".
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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2020, 03:27:15 PM »
I listen to music in a whole lot of ways. Not sure there's any patterns.

Sometimes, just like jamminbro, I listen to the rhythms. However, and I've been listening to Metallica for over 20 years, but I never noticed MoP skipped a beat on that riff. It just felt so natural and I didn't realize the missing beat til you just pointed it out and I counted it in my head. But sometimes, I get really into the rhythms and how odd they are.

Sometimes I get really into the melody. Just the specific note choices and and so forth and find it fascinating.

Sometimes I listen for the orchestral complexity of a piece.

Sometimes I listen for the personality or attitude or emotion of a song.

And then I listen to stuff that doesn't have much of any of that going on. I dunno.
I am like this.  Thank you for going first, Adami.
Yep, Adami speaks for me too. Sometimes I love diving into little details and nuances, other times I take a "big picture" approach and just like letting it wash over me. Depends on the type of music and strengths of the artist, to a degree.

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Offline HOF

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2020, 03:29:33 PM »
Some music just feels good.

I listen to a lot of jazz, and some of it is kind of weird, but I definitely don't analyze it very often.  I mean, to a certain degree, with some individual pieces, I might, but overall, I'm just listening and feeling.  My 17 year old calls it "vibing".

Jazz is a weird one. I enjoy it as mood/background music and it’s also kind of fun to watch someone play it, but it’s not something I would choose to actively listen to. And while I’m sure you could analyze the crap out of what’s going on underneath, that sounds absolutely tedious to me.

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2020, 03:46:27 PM »
This question has me flummoxed because I am a stickler about the difference between 'hearing' and 'listening.'

Kind of agree.

That said, let's go with the question.


Rhythm is, to me, absolutely the most important aspect/element of music. Rhythm is everywhere in everything that we as humans do or experience. A piece can have a cool melody, or fantastic harmony, but without good rhythm, it doesn't sound good. I hear music holistically, everything at once. Rhythm doesn't exist in a vacuum; it's propelled forward by melody (which in itself is to me, a 'horizontal' form of harmony) and shaped by timbral (tonal) qualities, among other stuff. Everything is part of a greater whole. I can listen to individual instruments in a given song and listen intimately to what it's doing, focusing just on that part, but also hear it in context of the rest. I think my favourite music is complex in a way that you can hear musicians interact, or complement each other's parts.



I, on average, listen to music for 8-10 hours a day, nearly every day.

This is insane to me. :lol



Despite most of my favorite music being progressive rock/metal (Dream Theater, Haken, Between the Buried and Me, Porcupine Tree, Transatlantic), I have basically no grasp on music theory.

Honestly, from a 'music theory' viewpoint, a lot of progressive rock/metal really isn't all that complicated.

Whenever I really focus on music, I tend to pay more attention to the notes being played rather than the beat they're part of.

I don't think I get what you're saying here. Are you saying you gravitate more towards listening to difference in pitch, rather than listen to the rhythmic framework underneath?



My 17 year old calls it "vibing".

I think most young people don't really 'listen' to the music they're listening to at all. This is assumption based on years of experience with high school children :)
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2020, 04:00:47 PM »
I listen to music in a whole lot of ways. Not sure there's any patterns.

Sometimes, just like jamminbro, I listen to the rhythms. However, and I've been listening to Metallica for over 20 years, but I never noticed MoP skipped a beat on that riff. It just felt so natural and I didn't realize the missing beat til you just pointed it out and I counted it in my head. But sometimes, I get really into the rhythms and how odd they are.

Sometimes I get really into the melody. Just the specific note choices and and so forth and find it fascinating.

Sometimes I listen for the orchestral complexity of a piece.

Sometimes I listen for the personality or attitude or emotion of a song.

And then I listen to stuff that doesn't have much of any of that going on. I dunno.
I am like this.  Thank you for going first, Adami.
Yep, Adami speaks for me too. Sometimes I love diving into little details and nuances, other times I take a "big picture" approach and just like letting it wash over me. Depends on the type of music and strengths of the artist, to a degree.

For the record, I agree with Adami, too.  I think I was answering a different aspect of the question.  I appreciate different things at different times, but the common thread is usually melody.

Offline Revenge319

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2020, 04:05:55 PM »
Whenever I really focus on music, I tend to pay more attention to the notes being played rather than the beat they're part of.

I don't think I get what you're saying here. Are you saying you gravitate more towards listening to difference in pitch, rather than listen to the rhythmic framework underneath?

To put it one way (and hopefully this makes sense, I'm not too good at describing stuff like this), I listen to what is being played rather than how it is logically written. Maybe think of it like a rhythm game, like Guitar Hero or something; I pay attention to the notes that are being played, but I never really think about how the notes function within the framework, with all the time signatures and other technical stuff. For example, I can easily understand how The Dance of Eternity is a very complex song, but I don't understand the complexity in the arrangement; I only hear the complexity in the way the music is being played. So I guess that would include a difference in pitch; that's much more immediately obvious to me than when there's a time signature change, for instance (I know I keep bringing up time signatures, but as far as the more technical stuff in music goes, that's the only thing I can sort of understand).

I hope that makes some sense, it's kind of tricky for me to explain this stuff.

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2020, 04:13:52 PM »
I have no musical training outside of a handful of guitar lessons, and I only have very loose ideas of the basic concepts in music theory. So I am certainly not analytical in the way that someone who does understand those subjects could be. As a result, I don't think I'll be able to give as precise an answer to this question as such a person, either.

The art I do know quite well is literature. I studied it in college, I'm currently studying it in graduate school, I teach it, and I spend a lot of time reading it and analyzing it. I think when I do focus on music in any sort of analytical way, I'm sort of "reading it" like a work of fiction. I'll try to explain what I mean by that.

Like Stadler, I tend to focus primarily on melody. This, to me, is the core element that gives me a sense that a piece of music is going somewhere and saying something. Not to disparage music that primarily focuses on rhythm, some of which I definitely do appreciate, but that's what I focus on. I roughly compare this to plot. They don't serve quite the same function in their respective arts, but both give a sense of progression from one idea to another. Other elements like rhythm, tempo, etc. are akin to style for me. Different ways of saying something. Like how a novel might use short sentences in a certain part to heighten tension, and then long, elaborate ones in another part to express thought, a song might use a different rhythm in a different place to achieve a different effect.

When I listen analytically to a song or an album (which I do not always do; sometimes I'm just listening for a melody I know I enjoy; or I'm just listening to get accustomed to the work on a surface level, which is usually all I'm able to do the first couple of times I hear it), I'm trying to follow the progression of ideas being laid out—much like how I would follow the progression of ideas laid out in a novel. Why this melody here before that melody here and then that solo there? Like: why this scene here before that scene there and then this monologue here? Obviously I'm able to give a much more specific answer to those questions for a novel, both because I know it better and because the required progression is, I think, easier to express in words (you need to know this detail from this scene before you can see the next one, etc.), but the general outlook is similar for me in both cases.

This is probably why I really like artists who make use of repetitions and reprises (Neal Morse, obviously, being perhaps the supreme example in prog). Why does the theme from earlier come back at this specific point? Why are they playing the same melody but now it's faster, or slower, or the vocals and guitar are at the same tempo while the drummer is playing at double time underneath? These are the things that interest me. It's also why I'm interested in concept albums, even ones where I'm not necessarily enamored with the story itself (or even know specifically what it means).

But even when there's no reprise and no lyrical concept, I'm still very interested in tracking the progression of a number of different musical ideas, and I think that's a big part of what draws me to prog rock/metal, a genre where there are more distinct ideas than in the typical pop song, and where the ideas are often carried out over longer progressions to create epic-length tracks.

Octavarium is a perfect example of a song where the lyrics don't matter much to the progression and the reprises aren't all that liberal, but where I just have this sense of fascination regarding the progression of ideas, which just feels really nicely put-together to me. I have no idea what key or what time signature is going on at any point on that song, but I do have this loose sense of how each of the parts progresses into the next and adds up into a whole of a certain kind.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2020, 04:20:08 PM »
A big revelation came to me when I was listening to Master of Puppets with my wife around.   She had never been a big Metallica fan but her kids were (she's a bit older than me) so she was familiar with the song.   But I remember pointing out to her that the main riff skipped a beat on every other bar (I don't know how else to describe it because I didn't study music, but I've always counted it as a bar of 8 and a bar of 7).   And she said that even though she's heard the song dozens of times, she never noticed that the beat did that.  She just heard the "riff".   

That BLEW MY MIND.   How can you just "hear the riff" and not notice the beat change?   And that got me to thinking that maybe people hear completely different things in the same song.

For starters, the actual time signature of the main MOP riff is the subject of much debate.  It's four bars of 4/4, followed by a bar that has variously been described as 5/8, 3/4, 11/16 and 21/32.  The band members have always maintained that it isn't in any particular time signature -- that they just "feel" it.  When it is discussed, they often comment that only Cliff had any real theory knowledge, and I don't know if he ever commented on it before he died.

Anyway, I think most people who aren't themselves musicians or don't have any particularly music/theory training or who aren't fans of prog rock/metal don't even give any thought to time signatures.  The exception would probably be dancers, who typically deal with 4/4 and 3/4 rhythms.  I'm sure if someone tried to dance to MOP, they'd notice it pretty quickly.  And I suspect that, if you surveyed 1,000 average Metallica fans, most wouldn't really be aware of this.


The intro of Giants Lore by Fates Warning (from Guardian) as an example is one of my favorite riffs.    When I was a teenager, I was convinced that they were playing around with time signatures in that riff.   But then one of my drummers (who had studied a bit) pointed out to me that the drummer was actually playing out a 4/4 beat, but the guitarist was just jumping around between "on" beats and "off" beats to make it sound weird.

What are you describing as the "intro"?  The first part of the song (0:00 - 0:10) is very straightforward 4/4 (although Zimmerman threw in accents on the and of 3 on two of the bars**).  The next section (0:10 - 0:33) is mostly 4/4, but there are two bars of 5/8 in there.  It's 4/4 from there until the vocals start (although there might be a bar of 2/4 right before the vocals start).

** - If you're not familiar with "the and of 3," I'm talking about counting quarter notes as 1-2-3-4.  If you count the spaces in between (i.e., eighth notes), most folks will count 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and, so "the and of 3" is the sixth eighth note in the measure or the off beat after the third beat.


Is any of this making sense to anyone?   I suppose I'm putting this out there as a sortof "test for echo" (ok, that pun is intended).   Maybe it's just because I've been feeling like I have difficulty relating to people lately.   IDK.   Maybe I'm just ranting.  :mehlin

It makes perfect sense to me, and virtually everything you wrote is true of me.  If a song has some challenging time signatures, I have a hard time really getting into the song until I feel comfortable counting along with it (Breaking All Illusions is a good example...once I got all the various odd times, the song REALLY clicked for me).  Of course, there are exceptions (to this day, I can't completely count along with The Dance of Eternity).  People sometimes thing I'm weird because of this, and I really annoyed my kids when they were growing up because I'd have a song on and say, "what time signature is this?"  After a while, they just started throwing things out there in the hope that they'd stumble on the right one.


the one at the end before James' final part? That's a 12-measure form of 5-7-5-7-5-7-5-7-5-5-7. (mostly)

I actually saw a tablature for this that tried to shoehorn the entire 5's and 7's section into 4/4.  That works...sort of, since 5+7=12, which is 3 bars of 4, but I thought it was beyond ridiculous.   :lol
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Online Adami

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2020, 04:22:53 PM »
I listen to music in a whole lot of ways. Not sure there's any patterns.

Sometimes, just like jamminbro, I listen to the rhythms. However, and I've been listening to Metallica for over 20 years, but I never noticed MoP skipped a beat on that riff. It just felt so natural and I didn't realize the missing beat til you just pointed it out and I counted it in my head. But sometimes, I get really into the rhythms and how odd they are.

Sometimes I get really into the melody. Just the specific note choices and and so forth and find it fascinating.

Sometimes I listen for the orchestral complexity of a piece.

Sometimes I listen for the personality or attitude or emotion of a song.

And then I listen to stuff that doesn't have much of any of that going on. I dunno.
I am like this.  Thank you for going first, Adami.
Yep, Adami speaks for me too. Sometimes I love diving into little details and nuances, other times I take a "big picture" approach and just like letting it wash over me. Depends on the type of music and strengths of the artist, to a degree.

For the record, I agree with Adami, too. 

Two in a day?!?!

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Offline dparrott

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2020, 06:49:17 PM »
It depends on what I'm in the mood for.  For most music, the voice is most important.  If I don't like the singer/rapper's voice I won't listen.  If I DO like the voice, then it depends what stands out to me the most: production, drums/beat, guitar tone, samples, harmonies.  Mainly I go for the overall "feel" of the music and how it makes me feel. 

If I have listened to the band for years, I know their sound, so I expect an album to sound a certain way.  If it doesn't sound that way I may balk at it at first, then like it later.  But sometimes a song hits me right away and I love it.  I gotta be in the mood for it for that to happen. 
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The very soul of what was once real music is now lost in a digital quagmire of emotionless sonic madness.

Offline TAC

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2020, 07:49:43 PM »
Did anyone even read what I wrote at all?

Well you did say you were talking about this with Mrs Dude. Thought you'd feel at home with the ignoring of the OP.  ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jammindude

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2020, 08:46:48 PM »
Did anyone even read what I wrote at all?

Well you did say you were talking about this with Mrs Dude. Thought you'd feel at home with the ignoring of the OP.  ;D

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

Actually, the conversation that has been had after I said that is exactly the type of thing I was hoping to spark.   It's interesting to me that we can all hear the same song and yet notice completely different things.  The "skip beat" (for lack of a better term) is Master of Puppets being the most basic example.   It was honestly one of the first things I noticed when I first heard it in March of 1986, and just assumed that everyone noticed, because it's a pretty simple example of a basic time change shift.   To even think that someone could listen to the riff of the song and not notice that part just blows my mind. 

It's funny because when I was growing up, there used to be a music teaching tool that I believe was done by Disney.   They did an animated version of Peter and the Wolf...but there was also a record where a narrator took you through all the instruments that were being used and how each instrument represented a character in the story.    Then it would take you one by one through what each one of those instruments sounded like, then it would put them all together for you with the instruction to focus on what each one was doing and how they were interacting with one another.     I had one of these records at home...but the music teacher at my grade school had it too.   It seems like I listened to that record over and over again.     Pretty soon, understanding all the things that were going on became part of the joy of enjoying music.
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Offline HOF

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2020, 08:57:58 PM »
 

It's funny because when I was growing up, there used to be a music teaching tool that I believe was done by Disney.   They did an animated version of Peter and the Wolf...but there was also a record where a narrator took you through all the instruments that were being used and how each instrument represented a character in the story.    Then it would take you one by one through what each one of those instruments sounded like, then it would put them all together for you with the instruction to focus on what each one was doing and how they were interacting with one another.     I had one of these records at home...but the music teacher at my grade school had it too.   It seems like I listened to that record over and over again.     Pretty soon, understanding all the things that were going on became part of the joy of enjoying music.

Oh man, I think we had the same record. At least we had one with Peter and the Wolf on it. Did yours have the cannibal song on it too?

Offline jammindude

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2020, 08:59:36 PM »
I don’t remember that. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. Just means it’s been too long to remember
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Offline HOF

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2020, 09:10:18 PM »
Hard to forget that one. Not exactly politically correct!

Offline jammindude

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Re: How do you "hear" music?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2020, 09:21:08 PM »
Hard to forget that one. Not exactly politically correct!


Be fair. It was at least 40 years ago at this point.  :rollin

But I will look it up later (watching Dune now) and see if it sounds familiar
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

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