Author Topic: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?  (Read 2255 times)

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Offline Dream Team

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2020, 08:52:16 AM »
The Ministry of Lost Souls is a perfect example of what should have been a 5 minute song ssssstttttrrrrreeeeetttttccccchhhhheeeeeddddd out to be a 15 minute song.


Another is A Nightmare To Remember which is WAY too long for how many parts it has. It should have wrapped up after the Beautiful Agony section.


But Instead it has 5 more solo sections and a pointless cookie monster section.

Fortunately this stuff kind of went away with MPís departure.

Offline pg1067

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2020, 09:43:30 AM »
After a couple recent re-listens, I don't dislike The Ministry of Lost Souls as much as I used to, but I still don't like it.  Nothing memorable about it.

Outside of an utter lack of taste, a short memory is most likely the probable cause. :p

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2020, 12:18:12 PM »
I find most of the songs on SC to be fun, but kind of shallow.  They don't have as much depth as the songs from most other DT albums.  The enjoyment is surface level only.
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2020, 02:39:09 PM »
I find most of the songs on SC to be fun, but kind of shallow.  They don't have as much depth as the songs from most other DT albums.  The enjoyment is surface level only.
How so? (Interesting thought, really. Truthfully, I rarely heard or read that SC was superficial, apart from these usual (and obvious) people who don't like more elaborate music.)
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2020, 03:03:44 PM »
They lyrics are straightforward, with no interpretation necessary.  Also, the music is functional, and occasionally fun, but nothing breathtaking.  You can tell there wasn't much self-editing done on this one.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2020, 04:40:03 PM »
It's not like they were going for prog metal album of the year, but I do like it better than DT12 and TA.
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Offline Trav86

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2020, 05:03:51 PM »
They lyrics are straightforward, with no interpretation necessary.  Also, the music is functional, and occasionally fun, but nothing breathtaking.  You can tell there wasn't much self-editing done on this one.

I agree with this. But, Iíll give them a pass seeing as how they were coming off a four album run that was pretty dense musically, and conceptually. The idea of just going in and playing some fun songs probably seemed pretty appealing to them.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2020, 08:32:51 AM »
I was just wondering something.  Since the majority opinion on ITPOE seems to generally be that pt. 1 is the better of the two, I wonder whether the entire thing would be perceived better or worse if they had not split it into two parts. 
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Offline TAC

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2020, 08:42:28 AM »
I was just wondering something.  Since the majority opinion on ITPOE seems to generally be that pt. 1 is the better of the two, I wonder whether the entire thing would be perceived better or worse if they had not split it into two parts.

What if DT split Illumination Theory? I bet it'd be received similarly as ITPOE, in terms of Pt1 vs Pt2. The thing is, in both songs, Pt. 1 is so concise and direct.

I actually love ITPOE Pt. 2.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline bosk1

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2020, 08:44:49 AM »
I actually love ITPOE Pt. 2.

As do most people with good taste.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2020, 09:30:04 AM »
They lyrics are straightforward, with no interpretation necessary.  Also, the music is functional, and occasionally fun, but nothing breathtaking.  You can tell there wasn't much self-editing done on this one.

I agree with this. But, Iíll give them a pass seeing as how they were coming off a four album run that was pretty dense musically, and conceptually. The idea of just going in and playing some fun songs probably seemed pretty appealing to them.
Oh, I'm not NOT giving them a pass (as if they require a pass from me lol).  Just calling it like I see it.

It remains an excellent driving album, IMO.
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Offline geeeemo

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2020, 09:49:33 AM »
I always listen to the live version of ItPoE on CIM.  It so good together and a great perfomance as well.  I like part 2 better, but seeing part one this past tour
was a big highlight for me.

I am loving IT more and more - especially the live version of that.  I love live versions!

Offline bosk1

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2020, 10:34:11 AM »
I loved that they played pt. 1.  It was a great performance, and the song fit the vibe of the set very nicely.  Knowing that it is only part of a complete work that tells a single story is a bit jarring for me, but it wasn't too hard to work past that and just enjoy the performance.
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Offline Evermind

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2020, 10:41:13 AM »
seeing part one this past tour
was a big highlight for me.


I loved that they played pt. 1.  It was a great performance, and the song fit the vibe of the set very nicely.

Definitely agree with these, Pt. 1 was the highlight of this tour for me (we did not get SFAM though, only had the short set). Still, I'm glad I went if only because I saw them play that song live.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2020, 02:03:48 PM »
I like Pt.1 better, but listening to both parts back to back makes the entire concept more enjoyable.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2020, 02:14:52 PM »
I like Pt.1 better, but listening to both parts back to back makes the entire concept more enjoyable.
Agreed.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2020, 04:11:21 PM »
I like Pt.1 better, but listening to both parts back to back makes the entire concept more enjoyable.
Agreed.

 :)
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2020, 03:29:56 PM »
Ok guys - if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 minute track - would you have it open Systematic Chaos or Close it

a. )

In The Presence of Enemies
Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls


--- or ---

b. )

Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls
In The Presence Of Enemies

?

Offline DTA

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2020, 03:50:42 PM »
Ok guys - if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 minute track - would you have it open Systematic Chaos or Close it

a. )

In The Presence of Enemies
Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls


--- or ---

b. )

Forsaken
Constant Motion
Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets of War
The Ministry of Lost Souls
In The Presence Of Enemies

?

It could really work as either because I feel like you have built-in alternate opening/closing tracks with The Dark Eternal Night and The Ministry of Lost Souls. But, since Octavarium closed that album, I think being an opening song is the best option for SC.


Offline Trav86

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2020, 04:01:32 PM »
Opener. After coming off of Octavarium as their last album ender.

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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2020, 04:18:59 PM »
Opener x3. I merged both parts into one track a while ago and have it starting the album, it works really well imo :metal
TMOLS closing works really well too.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2020, 04:27:13 PM »
Sidenote : Whilst Systematic Chaos isn't my favourite album - I do really like the cadence of the title.

It has a similar cadence to a Death Magnetic or American idiot.

A really satisfying easy to pronounce catchy title.

Offline ytserush

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2020, 09:10:38 AM »
Sidenote : Whilst Systematic Chaos isn't my favourite album - I do really like the cadence of the title.

It has a similar cadence to a Death Magnetic or American idiot.

A really satisfying easy to pronounce catchy title.

Like the name and the artwork, just not most of the music unfortunately.

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2020, 01:47:49 PM »
Sidenote : Whilst Systematic Chaos isn't my favourite album - I do really like the cadence of the title.

It has a similar cadence to a Death Magnetic or American idiot.

A really satisfying easy to pronounce catchy title.

American idiot - it's funny because it's so true........ :lol

Offline bosk1

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2020, 09:18:35 AM »
Ok guys - if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 minute track - would you have it open Systematic Chaos or Close it

If you had asked me before the album came out, I would have said that having such a big epic to start the album would feel strange and out of place.  I seem to vaguely recall Portnoy saying something similar as part of his explanation for why they broke it up.  But having done a reshuffled playlist of the songs for my own version of the album, I now feel that it works EXTREMELY well.  Following it with the relatively short Forsaken feels good from a pacing standpoint.  And even though I don't much care for Ministry, it does work as a closer.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2020, 09:32:24 AM »
Yeah, I could go either way, but Ministry's outro works perfectly as an album closer.  Also, don't think I would want Ministry and Presence back to back.
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Offline Buddyhunter1

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2020, 10:10:48 AM »
I think splitting it up into two parts was the smartest decision the band could have made, honestly. The two parts are different enough that they don't really need to be back-to-back and work perfectly fine apart, like with Shine On You Crazy Diamond for example.

If I had to group them together and put them either at the beginning or end I suppose I'd put them at the beginning, though that would result in TMOLS being likely their worst album closer ever. :lol
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2020, 02:16:29 PM »
I think splitting it up into two parts was the smartest decision the band could have made, honestly. The two parts are different enough that they don't really need to be back-to-back and work perfectly fine apart, like with Shine On You Crazy Diamond for example.

If I had to group them together and put them either at the beginning or end I suppose I'd put them at the beginning, though that would result in TMOLS being likely their worst album closer ever. :lol

Nah, Illumination Theory would still be the worst closer.
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2020, 02:34:25 PM »
I think splitting it up into two parts was the smartest decision the band could have made, honestly. The two parts are different enough that they don't really need to be back-to-back and work perfectly fine apart, like with Shine On You Crazy Diamond for example.

If I had to group them together and put them either at the beginning or end I suppose I'd put them at the beginning, though that would result in TMOLS being likely their worst album closer ever. :lol

Nah, Illumination Theory would still be the worst closer.

Technically - IT is not the closer......  ;)

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2020, 03:50:11 PM »
Technically it is because the Easter egg is not a separate track.  It's more like an epilogue.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2020, 06:14:01 PM »
I put both parts at the end of the album. Forsaken's actually pretty cool as an opener.
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Offline tony990

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2020, 08:49:56 PM »
I didn't like it at all the first time I listened to it. I discovered Dream Theater in early 2017 and I first heard Systematic Chaos in July of that year, but I made the mistake of reading reviews before listening to it, and the reviews all said it wasn't a good album, so I guess I was biased into thinking it was bad.

Ultimately, I started listening to Dark Eternal Night, since they led off with that at my first concert (in November 2017), and at the time determined it was my favorite song. I listened to a lot of different songs from the top half of the album for the next two years, but I really got into it last November, and then I realized it's a pretty good album. Still not one of my favorites, but In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 2 is flat-out incredible, and so is pretty much the rest of the album (I still can't get on board with Repentance, though).

Offline silentmac6

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2020, 08:10:05 AM »
SC is a good solid album, not as good as what came before it but better than what came immediately afterwards. But then DT have never made a bad album. There are some good and slightly different songs here and the Muse influence is still in evidence. Repentance is probably the weakest song IMO, but is certainly not terrible. I wouldn't change the split for ITPOE, but if I had to make it one complete song, it would finish the album.
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Offline DT1138

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2020, 02:49:37 PM »
I got into DT around the time of DT between TOT and Octavarium.  I'm not really a prog guy, but definitely am a metal one so I like Systematic Chaos a lot.  Getting the "making of" documentary disc along with it probably just biased me though because I really enjoyed that.  The only part of the album I don't care for is the spoken parts of "Repentance" (you get that beautiful JP solo and then lead into that, ugh...) and also how slowwwww "Ministry of Lost Souls" is until JP's lovely outro solo.

By comparison I like TOT a lot also, and BCSLs mostly (though I absolutely hate "Wither") even though the overall sound of the album sounds like all the fidelity was sucked out of it.  I think where BCSL fails though is that the songs have too many repeated riffs that could have been cut out to tighten up the songs.  JP's solos on the first two tracks alone still leave me speechless all these years later.

Offline H2

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Re: What do you think of Systematic Chaos?
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2020, 03:12:09 PM »
When it first came out, I didn't like it very much. I didn't like the fantasy direction of the album's theme and thought there was a bit more sophistication in previous entries. After maybe six or seven years, I gained more appreciation for it. The album is sonically really nice, there is a distinct, dark, gripping tone from beginning to end, and there's only one song I really dislike (PoW). I'm not sure it's superior to any album preceding it, except for obviously WDADU (and maybe FII, and mayyyyybe Awake).

"Forsaken" is like a microcosm of the album for me. At first I hated it and thought it was so corny and I really disliked the fantasy theme. Now, I think it's almost a DT classic, and possibly the best track on the album. To a lesser extent, I used to dislike "The Dark Eternal Night", but now it really stands out as unique and kinda cute in its own way. "Constant Motion" is all right, I think, good energy, doesn't really stand out though. "Repentance" is very self-important and, although I used to like the 12SS a lot, I really don't these days. "Ministry of Lost Souls" reaches for something really beautiful and wonderful, but I feel it doesn't quite make it. "Prophets of War" is utter garbage, bad riffs, bad vocals, cringe lyrics. "In the Presence of Enemies" is really awesome, an epic that doesn't quite parallel Octavarium or Change of Seasons but is just slightly below them. It's certainly better than any epic from the Mangini era, however, and possibly better than anything on Black Clouds.