Favorite MM Era Album - Sonic Quality Only

[emtee]

Reflecting back on the many discussions over the years related to the sound quality of the last 4 albums. I am basing my favorite and rankings based on the physical CD only. If you have both digital and physical, please let me know if there are notable differences in sound between the two. I've had many people tell me that the HD version of ADToE is significantly better than the CD but I didn't feel like buying the album twice.

1) DoT - For me, they got everything right on this album. It's crisp, clear and punchy. I can hear everything MM is doing. I think it's among their best albums sonically.
2) TA - Acceptable but not great.
3) DT - Same. Odd choices for drums. Very loud. Acceptable but not great.
4) ADToE - UGH! I'll never forget how disappointed I was when I slid the CD into the player. Muted. Lifeless. Can barely hear MM. The songs on this album are fantastic and I've tried to listen to the CD at least 20 times but I never seem to make it all the way through. I guess I really should buy the HD version and enjoy the album for what it is. Maybe I will. But the CD is just not acceptable from the pioneers of prog metal. I almost drool thinking about how great this album would be if it sounded like DoT.

[goo-goo]

Definitely DoT for me for the reasons you have listed. Also from a songwriting point of view. There's no wankery for the sake of doing it, songs are strong, lyrics are great.

[hunnus2000]

Agree with your assessment for the most part.

TA to me is when they first got MM's sound right. ADTOE - they need to reengineer that mix. D12 is what it is but I still think the music is top notch!

[Trav86]

I picked ADTOE. I honestly have never had a problem with it. I also I thought it sounded better than the two albums that came out before it. The one thing I think that could be fixed is the drums are too low. But, they were louder on DT12 and sounded like shit, so...
As for D/T I think it has the best drum sound since MM has been in the band. The mix is fine. I think there are moments that JP has gotten a better tone because I haven’t cared for his tone in probably 13 years.

[Volante99]

TA- is their best sounding MM album, and it’s not even close. I’m not a big fan of the music but the sound is crisp, clear, good separation, great acoustic sounds- maybe a bit TOO clean but a solid release without any real issues.

The rest have all been pretty mediocre and bottom of the pack for DT.
ADToE and DT12 have the worst drum sounds since I&W and that album has the 90s as an excuse.

D/T- I’ve only listened to Spotify streaming and early iTunes releases of this; I‘ve heard rumors it’s slightly better now on iTunes, but it’s way too loud and bassy, brick-walled to hell and back, the same weird effects slathered all over LaBrie’s vocals that they used for DT12. Mangini’s snare sounds better here but still having issues, especially the cymbals. I honestly find this album a tough listen and very fatiguing on the ears.

[Mladen]

The Astonishing gets my vote. Aside from the snare sound and the guitar being a bit quiet in certain sections, it's truly impressive sonically. Even though Dramatic is my favorite of the bunch, it sounds just a little bit muddy. And the remaining two are too much in-your-face in terms of sound.

[Max Kuehnau]

In my personal opinion, DT12 gets my vote. And here's the thing (and I'm referring to the High res 24 bit versions only here as I only listen to them where possible): The MM-era albums are all on an equal level. DT have upped the production quality from Systematic Chaos up until now, with the MM era albums being consistently great. The Astonishing is a bit of a step down, but they are all great sounding. (my sources are the 24 bit downloads on HDtracks or elsewhere and the audio Bluray of D/T btw. Not HDtracks in the case of  D/T.) DT12 is the best sounding of them all though IMHO. (look here for reference: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108208) DT12 (in 24 bit mind you) is to DT and metal what Brothers In Arms was to the CD and pop music.

[lovethedrake]

Easily DOT for me....its the first album since SDOIT that I would actually consider ear candy.   The opening of At Wits End hits you so hard.   Labrie sounds great as well.   

[Max Kuehnau]

Easily DOT for me....its the first album since SDOIT that I would actually consider ear candy.   The opening of At Wits End hits you so hard.   Labrie sounds great as well.

yes. The audio Bluray of the album is fantastic. (although it definitely isn't my personal favourite MM-era album. The audio Bluray made it very listenable though, as opposed to the CD version. Oh no.)

[Madman Shepherd]

Definitely DoT and while I agree that ADTOE is probably the "worst" sounding of the bunch, I don't think it sounds bad by any means. In fact, it sounds quite good, just not as good as the other 3.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It's a tie between TA and DoT, for very different reasons.

TA was an incredibly ambitious sonic exploration and I think it was pulled off remarkably. The orchestra and choir sound incredibly warm, and the mix really serves the arc of the story and the overall emotional impact of the album. Also, I think it's one of JLB's best sounding albums by far. I really don't care much for the drum sound because this is really not a drum-centric piece (as most DT albums are), but I think the overall tone of the instrument really blends in wonderfully when the rest of the cast. Props to Rich Chycki for managing this to sound like a DT record even though arrangement-wise this has been the most different and unique of them all.

DoT is basically a much more modern, hot and impactful approach that serves the music. I love the punchy and tight drum sound as well as the cymbal presence. This is *the* album that I really brought out MM's nuances and playing and the music really benefits of it. I've always thought as this mix to have taken DT12's approach but done right. I really don't have much criticisms with DT12's mix as most people seem to have, but I definitely enjoy DoT's sonic experience more. DT12's snare drum is definitely very different to the usually bright and crisp Melody Master snare but it's a cool change that I really didn't mind.

[kirksnosehair]

Distance Over Time, and it's not even close

[emtee]

I did not anticipate such a huge margin.

I'm wondering if any who chose ADToE based it on the CD. If they did, it would be hard for me to believe. But if so, it highlights the differences between what our individual ears hear.

[hefdaddy42]

DOT is not my favorite MM-era album, but I definitely think it has the best sound.

But really, the only one that is even just a little disappointing is ADTOE.

[kirksnosehair]

Going by the music only my favorite of the MM era is ADTOE and that's not even close either.  DOT is my second favorite, I really don't care for the others at all.  Especially The Astonishing which is easily my least favorite DT album, that's not even close either. 


These opinions, though, have very little to do with Mangini although I'll admit I find his drumming style to be kind of robotic. 

[Kotowboy]

It's a shame about DT12's snare sound as apart from that I think every MM album has sounded better than the one before.

All the MP / JP produced albums sounded generally fantastic though. *** So I wonder what MP bought to the table that took

Petrucci 3 albums to master ? Black Clouds & Silver Linings sounds pretty nice - but the very next album was muddy

and weak sounding by comparison.




*** Scenes From A Memory - Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

[PixelDream]

DT12 (in 24 bit mind you) is to DT and metal what Brothers In Arms was to the CD and pop music.

I have heard it in 24bit with all the dynamic range and everything, but I couldn't disagree more. The snare is fake-sounding, possibly more triggered than real, and JLB's vocals are drowning in FX.

Sound quality isn't just numbers on a dynamic range meter.

Now if you'd say Awake, I might agree. Listen to the beginning of Scarred and how full the overall sound is, and how dynamic everyone's playing.

[Kotowboy]

Probably said it already but Falling Into infinity is probably their nicest sounding album.

[nikatapi]

I still think that both ADTOE and DT12 would be much better albums with a better mix. ADTOE is so muddy, and DT12 suffers from the fart-like snare, and in some songs it's so annoying.

[Kotowboy]

I still think that both ADTOE and DT12 would be much better albums with a better mix. ADTOE is so muddy, and DT12 suffers from the fart-like snare, and in some songs it's so annoying.

It works for The Enemy Inside but for soft ballady songs like Along For The Ride it sounds terrible.


We can’t stop the DOOF from spinning around or the pull of the DOOF on the tide. 😄

[RoeDent]

Don't really care tbh. I can hear all of them, so they all sound fine to me.

[Kotowboy]

Good thing you took the time to post in this thread then !

[nikatapi]

By the way i still think that Awake is the perfect "heavy" mix for Dream Theater. It just sounds so dynamic and powerful.
If you listen to a song from any DT album from the JP-produced era and then go back to Awake, the difference is so apparent.

I also find that the LTE albums had great mixes, by also giving JR lots of space in the mix, which is sometimes an issue on the latest DT albums.

[Volante99]

By the way i still think that Awake is the perfect "heavy" mix for Dream Theater. It just sounds so dynamic and powerful.
If you listen to a song from any DT album from the JP-produced era and then go back to Awake, the difference is so apparent.

I also find that the LTE albums had great mixes, by also giving JR lots of space in the mix, which is sometimes an issue on the latest DT albums.

Awake is a great sounding album. I think they recorded it in the same studio as the Black Album, so they were definitely going for broke on that record. Going to assume that record cost someone ALOT of money to make. I believe that JP quadruple tracked a lot of the rhythm guitars. It’s a very clean sounding album, the only flaw being maybe a bit tooo clean. And yes, it’s miles better, sonically, than anything they’ve done in the Mangini era.

I’ve also liked the LTE albums mostly because it sounds like they were recorded live (which I think a lot of it was?). DT could benefit by recording more in this style as I think the Mangini albums have sounded too disconnected, too pieced together, too Pro-Tools. Miss the sound of just 5 guys jamming in a room.

[Trav86]

Coming off of a Gold selling record (I&W), there’s was going to be more support financially for the making of Awake. Of course when that one didn’t do nearly as well, things changed.

[emtee]

I hope they utilize the same people and process for the next album. Seems overwhelming that most prefer DoT.

[Volante99]

I’m honestly hoping the next album sounds like Terminal Velocity with just a slightly more even mix. (Bass and drums are too far back in the mix and guitars are too forward, but that’s to be expected in a guitar solo album). It’s a huge improvement, sonically, to DoT though. And I hope it’s a sign of things to come.

[Kotowboy]

I hope they utilize the same people and process for the next album. Seems overwhelming that most prefer DoT.

I think Jimmy T will be involved. He was promoted to engineer on D/T from just studio assistant I believe.

[Max Kuehnau]

I hope they utilize the same people and process for the next album. Seems overwhelming that most prefer DoT.

I think Jimmy T will be involved. He was promoted to engineer on D/T from just studio assistant I believe.

yes, JP mentioned it in some interview (can't remember which one) during the promotional period of D/T

[gzarruk]

I hope they utilize the same people and process for the next album. Seems overwhelming that most prefer DoT.

I think Jimmy T will be involved. He was promoted to engineer on D/T from just studio assistant I believe.

Yeah, that's a pretty safe bet. IIRC, he was first the assistant engineer for both DT12 and TA, he then got hired as part of their live sound crew, and then became engineer for D/T and now JP's album.

[kirksnosehair]

Speaking purely in terms of how things sound -the overall sonic experience- one aspect of Dream Theater's sound in the MM era that I don't care for is the very inorganic sound of Mangini's drums, especially the tom-toms, but really the whole kit sounds almost like programmed drums.  It's probably a combination of the mixing and his incredible accuracy that produces this impression but it's not just how he plays, it's the sound of the drums and how they're mixed that's just...there are no dynamics.  It's like a wall of drums in every song.  They have a very dry and almost metallic sound. 

[darkshade]

I listened to WDADU recently, and I can't believe it, but that album sounded better than all the Mangini albums. Not too loud, everyone can be heard. JP's tone sucks and the band were young, inexperienced, still working on their songwriting chops, but the sound of the album is fine (for the time period at least)

Every Mangini album has issues (but so did the last couple of albums with MP, and honestly, which DT album doesn't have criticisms of the production?)
but with the Mangini albums, the issues are VERY distracting throughout the entire album.

ADTOE - drums too low, loss of MP means loss of full sound they once had, JP's sounds so weak compared to BC&SL, filtered effects-laden JLB vocals
DT12 - everyone sounds bad
TA - Best sounding production overall, but of course it is.
DoT - Best 'rawk' sound they've had in some time, but man, I can't listen to JLB's singing anymore, and I always liked him in the 2000s. I once did a listen to Awake then put on DoT and had to turn it off after a few songs, it was the vocals. Besides drenched in effects, it is clear time is catching up to JLB's already strained vocal chords. Sad but true.

[Nachtmerrie]

I voted for TA, one of my least favorite DT-albums but it's by far the best, clearest sounding album of the Mangini era.

Listened to ADTOE and DoT today.

ADTOE: by far my favorite of the Mangini era from a song perspective. It's a shame the albums sounds so dry and lifeless.
DoT: I liked the album after it's release but it's slipped quite a bit since then. I mainly agree with Volante's post earlier in this thread. Too much bass, too loud and Labrie's sounds like there's a lot to hide.

I leave DT12 out of the ranking. No intention to listen to that album again in the near future.

[Setlist Scotty]

I listened to WDADU recently, and I can't believe it, but that album sounded better than all the Mangini albums.

Sorry bro, but as much as I love WDaDU (and I rate it far higher than most fans), WDaDU is by far DT's worst sounding album. While it might be more "organic" sounding in some respects (especially because things couldn't be tweaked on computers the same way they can be today), the mix is flat and lifeless in comparison with everything that came after it, including the MM-era albums.

[Max Kuehnau]

I listened to WDADU recently, and I can't believe it, but that album sounded better than all the Mangini albums.

Sorry bro, but as much as I love WDaDU (and I rate it far higher than most fans), WDaDU is by far DT's worst sounding album. While it might be more "organic" sounding in some respects (especially because things couldn't be tweaked on computers the same way they can be today), the mix is flat and lifeless in comparison with everything that came after it, including the MM-era albums.

I'd have to agree. I also would rate it higher than most people (concerning the songwriting aspect anyway. They had great ideas even then IMHO) but it does sound a bit flat. (somewhat anyway.) I'd love for that album to have had a bit more of a Queensrychean production, if you get my idea, but anyway.