Author Topic: Have your children continued your faith traditions?  (Read 2831 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2020, 11:58:53 AM »
One of the quotes our family tries to live by is “Always preach the Gospel and if needed, use words”.
I like this a lot. I'd prefer to see a few "really"s between if and needed, but overall it's a fine way to approach it.



The trend for religiosity is trending downward in this country and it can't trend down fast enough for me.

Yep......and you can see the effects in our culture. Ripe with selfishness and caring for ‘I’ over we or ‘you’.....morality is an inconvenience rather than a tether to our humanity.

It’s fine to be anti religion. I get it due to the injustices that have taken place in the name of God but people exploiting it.....but to pretend mankind is somehow ‘better off’ not seeking a spiritual clarity is silly
What you overlook is that a whole lot of that selfishness, and dare I say, immorality, is coming from other so-called Christians. I've got no problem with a spiritual clarity, but you have to understand that at the end of the day we all make up our own spiritual beliefs, and clarity in those beliefs is only as beneficial as what they are. Eric Rudolph was clearly certain in his beliefs, and I'd bet that you and he would disagree quite strongly over which one of you was operating under the auspices of Christ.

You won’t find me arguing for or trying to defend people who claim to be Christian but in near every aspect of their lives they are living their life outside of Christ’s teachings. It’s pretty easy to start cherry picking the things you like about Christianity but ignore the things that are difficult to adhere to. There is A LOT of that going on these days.....a sort of modified Christianity that really isn’t anything other than self help spiritualism.

I’m trying to be an example to my kids and others by being a Christian....a Christ follower. That’s uncomfortable for some because when you dig into what Christ teaches nowhere will you see him ask you to ‘hate’ ANYONE. Not homosexuals or Muslims or Jewish people.....no one. He emphatically challenges us to LOVE one another at all costs because Love really can overcome anything. It’s just really difficult when your battling instinctual impulses.....to ‘love’ at all times.
You most certainly don't need to defend your beliefs to me. You do it the way I wish others would. Despite approaching it from polar opposite angles, we're both pretty much in agreement about what Christianity should be, and despite disagreeing with it as a way of life, I'd be happy to live in a world full of people who tried to behave as Christ did. I was simply pointing out that a "moral clarity" actually is a part of the problem. Morality is particular to the person, as we see with the hateful Christians that we both object to. I'd go so far as to say that a moral uncertainty would be more beneficial to us all. People should be constantly evaluating what their morality is and what it's based on. Once they decide that they have the answers they're usually wrong, and more often than not assholes.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2020, 12:00:14 PM »
One of the quotes our family tries to live by is “Always preach the Gospel and if needed, use words”.
I like this a lot. I'd prefer to see a few "really"s between if and needed, but overall it's a fine way to approach it.



The trend for religiosity is trending downward in this country and it can't trend down fast enough for me.

Yep......and you can see the effects in our culture. Ripe with selfishness and caring for ‘I’ over we or ‘you’.....morality is an inconvenience rather than a tether to our humanity.

It’s fine to be anti religion. I get it due to the injustices that have taken place in the name of God but people exploiting it.....but to pretend mankind is somehow ‘better off’ not seeking a spiritual clarity is silly
What you overlook is that a whole lot of that selfishness, and dare I say, immorality, is coming from other so-called Christians. I've got no problem with a spiritual clarity, but you have to understand that at the end of the day we all make up our own spiritual beliefs, and clarity in those beliefs is only as beneficial as what they are. Eric Rudolph was clearly certain in his beliefs, and I'd bet that you and he would disagree quite strongly over which one of you was operating under the auspices of Christ.

You won’t find me arguing for or trying to defend people who claim to be Christian but in near every aspect of their lives they are living their life outside of Christ’s teachings. It’s pretty easy to start cherry picking the things you like about Christianity but ignore the things that are difficult to adhere to. There is A LOT of that going on these days.....a sort of modified Christianity that really isn’t anything other than self help spiritualism.

I’m trying to be an example to my kids and others by being a Christian....a Christ follower. That’s uncomfortable for some because when you dig into what Christ teaches nowhere will you see him ask you to ‘hate’ ANYONE. Not homosexuals or Muslims or Jewish people.....no one. He emphatically challenges us to LOVE one another at all costs because Love really can overcome anything. It’s just really difficult when your battling instinctual impulses.....to ‘love’ at all times.

You may have meant this, maybe not, but what you talk about in that first paragraph is what I consider "selfishness".  I don't see any real problem with putting self interest first, but there are consequences to that.  I don't think that extends to forcing your self-interest on others.   As libertarian as I am, I do not support those actions to force clubs to accept women, or men, or whatever, even if morally or practically it' fair or (cosmically) right.  The institutions of the church are presumably formed by the church; there are ways of expressing different ideas and incorporating them into the process, but I sort of shake my head at the notion that - be it homosexuality, or drug use or other sexual practice - a church has to revise and repurpose it's tenets to accommodate any one member.

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2020, 12:02:56 PM »
One of the quotes our family tries to live by is “Always preach the Gospel and if needed, use words”.
I like this a lot. I'd prefer to see a few "really"s between if and needed, but overall it's a fine way to approach it.



The trend for religiosity is trending downward in this country and it can't trend down fast enough for me.

Yep......and you can see the effects in our culture. Ripe with selfishness and caring for ‘I’ over we or ‘you’.....morality is an inconvenience rather than a tether to our humanity.

It’s fine to be anti religion. I get it due to the injustices that have taken place in the name of God but people exploiting it.....but to pretend mankind is somehow ‘better off’ not seeking a spiritual clarity is silly
What you overlook is that a whole lot of that selfishness, and dare I say, immorality, is coming from other so-called Christians. I've got no problem with a spiritual clarity, but you have to understand that at the end of the day we all make up our own spiritual beliefs, and clarity in those beliefs is only as beneficial as what they are. Eric Rudolph was clearly certain in his beliefs, and I'd bet that you and he would disagree quite strongly over which one of you was operating under the auspices of Christ.

You won’t find me arguing for or trying to defend people who claim to be Christian but in near every aspect of their lives they are living their life outside of Christ’s teachings. It’s pretty easy to start cherry picking the things you like about Christianity but ignore the things that are difficult to adhere to. There is A LOT of that going on these days.....a sort of modified Christianity that really isn’t anything other than self help spiritualism.

I’m trying to be an example to my kids and others by being a Christian....a Christ follower. That’s uncomfortable for some because when you dig into what Christ teaches nowhere will you see him ask you to ‘hate’ ANYONE. Not homosexuals or Muslims or Jewish people.....no one. He emphatically challenges us to LOVE one another at all costs because Love really can overcome anything. It’s just really difficult when your battling instinctual impulses.....to ‘love’ at all times.
You most certainly don't need to defend your beliefs to me. You do it the way I wish others would. Despite approaching it from polar opposite angles, we're both pretty much in agreement about what Christianity should be, and despite disagreeing with it as a way of life, I'd be happy to live in a world full of people who tried to behave as Christ did. I was simply pointing out that a "moral clarity" actually is a part of the problem. Morality is particular to the person, as we see with the hateful Christians that we both object to. I'd go so far as to say that a moral uncertainty would be more beneficial to us all. People should be constantly evaluating what their morality is and what it's based on. Once they decide that they have the answers they're usually wrong, and more often than not assholes.

This is a STELLAR post.   Really well said.  (You, El Barto, will likely see that I feel this way most strongly on political issues.)

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2020, 12:09:16 PM »
One of the quotes our family tries to live by is “Always preach the Gospel and if needed, use words”.
I like this a lot. I'd prefer to see a few "really"s between if and needed, but overall it's a fine way to approach it.



The trend for religiosity is trending downward in this country and it can't trend down fast enough for me.

Yep......and you can see the effects in our culture. Ripe with selfishness and caring for ‘I’ over we or ‘you’.....morality is an inconvenience rather than a tether to our humanity.

It’s fine to be anti religion. I get it due to the injustices that have taken place in the name of God but people exploiting it.....but to pretend mankind is somehow ‘better off’ not seeking a spiritual clarity is silly
What you overlook is that a whole lot of that selfishness, and dare I say, immorality, is coming from other so-called Christians. I've got no problem with a spiritual clarity, but you have to understand that at the end of the day we all make up our own spiritual beliefs, and clarity in those beliefs is only as beneficial as what they are. Eric Rudolph was clearly certain in his beliefs, and I'd bet that you and he would disagree quite strongly over which one of you was operating under the auspices of Christ.

You won’t find me arguing for or trying to defend people who claim to be Christian but in near every aspect of their lives they are living their life outside of Christ’s teachings. It’s pretty easy to start cherry picking the things you like about Christianity but ignore the things that are difficult to adhere to. There is A LOT of that going on these days.....a sort of modified Christianity that really isn’t anything other than self help spiritualism.

I’m trying to be an example to my kids and others by being a Christian....a Christ follower. That’s uncomfortable for some because when you dig into what Christ teaches nowhere will you see him ask you to ‘hate’ ANYONE. Not homosexuals or Muslims or Jewish people.....no one. He emphatically challenges us to LOVE one another at all costs because Love really can overcome anything. It’s just really difficult when your battling instinctual impulses.....to ‘love’ at all times.
You most certainly don't need to defend your beliefs to me. You do it the way I wish others would. Despite approaching it from polar opposite angles, we're both pretty much in agreement about what Christianity should be, and despite disagreeing with it as a way of life, I'd be happy to live in a world full of people who tried to behave as Christ did. I was simply pointing out that a "moral clarity" actually is a part of the problem. Morality is particular to the person, as we see with the hateful Christians that we both object to. I'd go so far as to say that a moral uncertainty would be more beneficial to us all. People should be constantly evaluating what their morality is and what it's based on. Once they decide that they have the answers they're usually wrong, and more often than not assholes.

Yeah.....great post and point  :tup   

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Offline Skeever

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2020, 12:15:51 PM »
Appreciate reading all the responses so far :)

Please let's try and keep discussions regarding what qualifies as true Christianity, whether religion is a force of good in the world, or not, etc., limited only to the extent that they are relevant to your personal decisions to keep faith a part of your life or not, and consider starting a new thread in PR if there are religious topics you'd like to debate with another member. I thought this thread would be interested in General rather than PR insofar as we kept away from making it into a debate.

I also value my job highly in times of COVID, and refuse to open myself up to the temptation of PR again...  :biggrin:

Online hunnus2000

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2020, 12:20:32 PM »
Many years ago, I gave up religion for lent and never  looked back. I realized I was really not being honest with myself because I really didn't believe in a god, a Jesus or a devil so going to church was nothing less than hypocritical. It took me awhile to completely deconvert because that shit was ingrained in me since childhood (Catholic).

Fast-forward to the early 2000's - my 12 year-old stepson asked why we didn't go to church on Sundays like every other family. I told him we are non-believers and I had no interest in supporting any church or religion but if wanted to explore religious beliefs than by all means go right ahead and it was up to him not me or his mother to decide for him. He started to go to church with one of his friends and was pretty regular - until he graduated high school. The two went to different colleges and he stopped going and when I asked why, he said he never really believed, he was just going for the friendship. Just as I expected...

The trend for religiosity is trending downward in this country and it can't trend down fast enough for me.

Gary touched on this, but I made very clear to my daughter and step son (the other two stepkids are old enough to figure this out on their own) that there is a DISTINCT difference between "religion" and "god/spirituality".   Throwing out the concept of "god" because of one church that happens to worship him/her is illogical.   Hitchens repeatedly blurred these lines in his critiques; there are many examples of him refuting the presence of God because a man (as in human, as in prone to mistake and error) acted in some form or fashion.   I know for me, I haven't attended an organized worship in a church in decades but I do believe in (a) god, and have gone to a church on off hours as a place of sanctuary (in other words, I'd be left alone to my voices, in a peaceful and relaxing setting). 

I tend to think the trend is a misleading one, meaning, we're capturing the people like you that kind of were already there, but dragged feet on giving up the ghost, no pun intended, or were otherwise reluctant to identify as an atheist.  We're still BY FAR a nation that believes in a god, even if there isn't a corresponding religious worship.

Giving up the ghost....I like that! :)

While I agree that there is a difference between religion and the concept god/spirituality, we can prove religion but we cannot prove a god or a spirit exists at all so I see no reason to believe. And as far as the trend being misleading, there is hard data out there supporting that trend. There are also non-believers that claim to be religious but in reality, don't really believe.

BTW - I loved me some Hitch!

Offline Herrick

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2020, 04:47:54 PM »
I read a quote from someone -- I don't remember who -- to the effect that if they had a friend who claimed to be Christian, but did not try to convert them, then they knew that that person was not a true Christian.  If you honestly believed that after you die, you were going to live forever in a beautiful paradise, and everyone else was going to burn in eternal torment, and you didn't at least try to get every one of your friends on board, then either you don't really believe it or you're not a good friend, which means you don't really believe it anyway.  I couldn't find any hole in that argument.  That's not meant to be a challenge, but I suppose it could be.  I'm curious what others think of that line of reasoning.  Today, the mantra is to leave it be, let everyone decide for themselves, don't ask, don't tell, etc.  I get that, but his point was sound.  If you really believed it, wouldn't you want every one of your friends to come with you?  Could you really live happily forever in paradise knowing how many of your friends are burning in Hell?
I've always liked this argument, and have thrown it about myself, but only as a joke. "If you were really a Christian you'd be concerned enough for my soul to do [insert something stupid here]. (I'm still waiting for a pretty girl to knock on my door out proselytizing.) The reality, though, is that it denies the significance of freewill. To be clear, I think freewill is a myth, but then I'm not using it as a core component of my spiritual belief. Christians are, and if they actually care about their faith, it's important that they allow people to make their own decisions.

It depends on how the Christian goes about it. It can be done in a very non-pushy way and doesn't infringe upon anyone's free will to make their own decisions. Every once in a while a Jehovah's Witness will knock on my door or approach me as I'm leaving for work and say, "Hey Herrick, can I give you some literature?" And I say, "Sure". I have no problem with that. I make my own decision to throw it away, usually at work or I just leave it around the house.

Now if someone is constantly hounding their friends or family to go to church with them or something like that, then that's a problem.
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2020, 05:22:26 PM »
Appreciate reading all the responses so far :)

Please let's try and keep discussions regarding what qualifies as true Christianity, whether religion is a force of good in the world, or not, etc., limited only to the extent that they are relevant to your personal decisions to keep faith a part of your life or not, and consider starting a new thread in PR if there are religious topics you'd like to debate with another member. I thought this thread would be interested in General rather than PR insofar as we kept away from making it into a debate.

I also value my job highly in times of COVID, and refuse to open myself up to the temptation of PR again...  :biggrin:

To answer the original post, no kids but I haven't continued with my mom's faith (Catholic).  She doesn't seem to be upset about it and she was never super religious herself.  I think she believes in some of it and thinks some of it is ridiculous.

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2020, 07:40:00 AM »
Appreciate reading all the responses so far :)

Please let's try and keep discussions regarding what qualifies as true Christianity, whether religion is a force of good in the world, or not, etc., limited only to the extent that they are relevant to your personal decisions to keep faith a part of your life or not, and consider starting a new thread in PR if there are religious topics you'd like to debate with another member. I thought this thread would be interested in General rather than PR insofar as we kept away from making it into a debate.

I also value my job highly in times of COVID, and refuse to open myself up to the temptation of PR again...  :biggrin:

Give yourself to the dark side, Luke.  It's the only way....

:)

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2020, 07:51:34 AM »
Many years ago, I gave up religion for lent and never  looked back. I realized I was really not being honest with myself because I really didn't believe in a god, a Jesus or a devil so going to church was nothing less than hypocritical. It took me awhile to completely deconvert because that shit was ingrained in me since childhood (Catholic).

Fast-forward to the early 2000's - my 12 year-old stepson asked why we didn't go to church on Sundays like every other family. I told him we are non-believers and I had no interest in supporting any church or religion but if wanted to explore religious beliefs than by all means go right ahead and it was up to him not me or his mother to decide for him. He started to go to church with one of his friends and was pretty regular - until he graduated high school. The two went to different colleges and he stopped going and when I asked why, he said he never really believed, he was just going for the friendship. Just as I expected...

The trend for religiosity is trending downward in this country and it can't trend down fast enough for me.

Gary touched on this, but I made very clear to my daughter and step son (the other two stepkids are old enough to figure this out on their own) that there is a DISTINCT difference between "religion" and "god/spirituality".   Throwing out the concept of "god" because of one church that happens to worship him/her is illogical.   Hitchens repeatedly blurred these lines in his critiques; there are many examples of him refuting the presence of God because a man (as in human, as in prone to mistake and error) acted in some form or fashion.   I know for me, I haven't attended an organized worship in a church in decades but I do believe in (a) god, and have gone to a church on off hours as a place of sanctuary (in other words, I'd be left alone to my voices, in a peaceful and relaxing setting). 

I tend to think the trend is a misleading one, meaning, we're capturing the people like you that kind of were already there, but dragged feet on giving up the ghost, no pun intended, or were otherwise reluctant to identify as an atheist.  We're still BY FAR a nation that believes in a god, even if there isn't a corresponding religious worship.

Giving up the ghost....I like that! :)

While I agree that there is a difference between religion and the concept god/spirituality, we can prove religion but we cannot prove a god or a spirit exists at all so I see no reason to believe. And as far as the trend being misleading, there is hard data out there supporting that trend. There are also non-believers that claim to be religious but in reality, don't really believe.

BTW - I loved me some Hitch!

Hitchens is entertaining, but I find his logic to be the intellectual equivalent to swiss cheese.  I do love watching his debates. 

As for the trend, we need to be more clear and more specific.    The numbers regarding RELIGION show a significant drop, but the number of people that - generally and independent of any specific religion - "believe in God" is not changing at the same rate.    As I said, the "trend", as evidenced by the hard data, is misleading.  I think it shows TWO SPECIFIC THINGS:  the hard data shows the number of people interested in ORGANIZED RELIGION is dropping precipitously, and I think it's showing that we as a society are more comfortable in expressing our doubts about god.   Perhaps in 20, 30 years that "doubt" will translate into outright denial, but right now, the hard data doesn't support that.   In the past 15 years, the number of people CONVINCED there is a god has dropped about 15%.   In the past 10 years the number of people that - yes or no - "believe in god" has only dropped about a third of that. 

In the same time period, more or less, church membership has dropped from over 70% to barely 50%, and those that have stated "no association" with any particular religion has increased over 100% (from about 10% of respondents to almost 25% of respondents.  RELIGION, not GOD. 

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2020, 04:06:33 PM »
Just to answer the OP question...

Yes, if I have children, they will be raised and continue my spiritual beliefs.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2020, 04:31:37 AM »
My family tradition is atheism, as I had like one grandma who maybe kinda sorta believed in god :lol it took me a whiiiiile (even past my teens) to even exist around religious people and not unknowingly offend them while talking about religion. I don't believe that my hypothetical children would be religious, but I would probably have to fight with my husband's conformism with the religious side of his family if I didn't want to baptize them/have them uncritically immersed into other religious traditions when they're young. One of those "but that's just what people in our culture do" kinda guys, while I am anything but, even though I am far less cranky about doing a nice lunch on Christmas than I used to be :P

When they grow up, they can do whatever, obviously. Get into church, or crossfit :lol
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 04:38:42 AM by MoraWintersoul »

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Re: Have your children continued your faith traditions?
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2020, 09:46:04 AM »
Well, organized religion is a non factor in my life, and it is in my daughter's as well (except obsession with nerd stuff), so yeah, I guess she continued my lack of faith traditions.