The Nevermore Appreciation Thread

[LithoJazzoSphere]

TOC was such a let down after TGE.  I could revisit it though.

Totally agree with this.  But (at least for me) that was inevitable - TGE is a desert island album for me, there was very little chance they were going to top it.  TOC was still a very good album IMO, I enjoyed the change in approach.

I think I just talked about this a bit in the consecutive albums with a drop in quality thread.  TGE is their masterpiece for me, and anything else would have a hard time to compare, but I do consider TOC underrated.  Really the whole block of DHIADW-TOC is one of the best runs in music.  Even the 90s albums are incredible.  It's unfortunate how tragically their career ended.  Warrel was such a unique voice, even though many have tried to mimic him since then.  I'm also disappointed in Michael not allowing Jeff to contribute to Arch Enemy other than solos.  This year's AE album was a step up from the previous one, and it was enjoyable enough, but it's still a far cry from the heights they could achieve if they more fully utilized the panoply of Jeff and Alissa's giftings.  Warrel's second solo album is one I want to invest more time into at some point, I just couldn't bring myself to listen to it much for the first few years because it was too painful, knowing the circumstances behind it.  But now perhaps enough time has passed that I can view it as a fitting tribute, given that it was closer in sound Nevermore than his first solo effort. 

I'm still hoping Jeff's third solo album will come out at some point.  The second one I almost think of as a stealth Nevermore album, particularly the Rhoades tracks since she had a few parts on Dreaming Neon Black.  And as solid of a drummer as Williams was, Verbeuren is just on another level. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLj5khN80-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfh9ZSCL2uM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7t8N0sXNh0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBVgCirlcYY

[nick_z]

Dreaming Neon Black and Dead Heart in a Dead World are their two best, IMO. Hands down. 

 

By the way, there are songs on DNB that could almost pass for darker and gloomier Queensryche songs (thinking Promised Land-era)...the title-track, certainly, but also tunes like The Lotus Eater. Dane certainly took some pages from Tate's playbook there.

Funnily enough, I've always thought the title-track from Tribe sort of came full-circle that way, with the singing influences...the start of the song, with Tate singing "the face of God", sounds a lot like Dane  is it just me?

[porcacultor]

Dreaming Neon Black and Dead Heart in a Dead World are their two best, IMO. Hands down. 

 

By the way, there are songs on DNB that could almost pass for darker and gloomier Queensryche songs (thinking Promised Land-era)...the title-track, certainly, but also tunes like The Lotus Eater. Dane certainly took some pages from Tate's playbook there.

Funnily enough, I've always thought the title-track from Tribe sort of came full-circle that way, with the singing influences...the start of the song, with Tate singing "the face of God", sounds a lot like Dane  is it just me?

NAILED IT. That part always got me thinking "wow, I love this... what does it sound like?". DEFINITELY sounds like Warrel!

------------------

One thing I feel really fortunate for was watching Nevermore live in 2006 at a Brazilian festival. They weren't the headliners, but they packed a mighty punch and played many of my favorites like I Voyager and the title track to TGE. Best part was when it started to drizzle out of nowhere and Warrel said "We brought the rain from Seattle...". God, they were great.

After hearing that the Arch Enemy camp sort of worked against Jeff and Warrel reuniting I kind of low-key hate that band for it?    Nothing serious, but damn. Fate served Nevermore a raw deal, they really deserved better.

[Grappler]

After hearing that the Arch Enemy camp sort of worked against Jeff and Warrel reuniting I kind of low-key hate that band for it?    Nothing serious, but damn. Fate served Nevermore a raw deal, they really deserved better.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread at the time Warrel died, but I understand Arch Enemy's reasoning.  From what I gleaned through a long-since deleted post that Warrel made, and other statements - Jeff's contract specifically kept him from working with Nevermore again.  It isn't that Arch Enemy actively worked against Nevermore.  It's that Angela Gossow, as Arch Enemy's management, did her job to protect Jeff's position in Arch Enemy by limiting what else he can do while in their band.

From their perspective, the Arch Enemy lead guitarist position was a revolving door, with people coming in and out for years and years and years.  They landed Jeff, who wanted to be part of a band again and who is a BIG name musician, and they wanted to make sure he wouldn't be tempted to walk away from the band should Nevermore try to reunite.  They're keeping the lineup stable.  Jeff did play a song with Sanctuary in Seattle in tribute to Warrel (whether he could freely do so or whether he cleared it with management is another thing), so it's not like he can't do anything else.  He just can't do things in Nevermore while playing in Arch Enemy.


On another note, I've been playing the hell out of Nevermore for the last 24 hours.   

[Shalev Amir]

TGE's title track is one of my favourite songs ever. Especially the bridge, I have cried when Warrel's vocals came on over these arpeggios more than I have at any other musical passage.

I probably have to admit Enemies of Reality is my favourite album, which is strange because I think it's far from perfect. But it's by far the album I play the most, and numbers don't lie!

[Samsara]

After hearing that the Arch Enemy camp sort of worked against Jeff and Warrel reuniting I kind of low-key hate that band for it?    Nothing serious, but damn. Fate served Nevermore a raw deal, they really deserved better.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread at the time Warrel died, but I understand Arch Enemy's reasoning.  From what I gleaned through a long-since deleted post that Warrel made, and other statements - Jeff's contract specifically kept him from working with Nevermore again.  It isn't that Arch Enemy actively worked against Nevermore.  It's that Angela Gossow, as Arch Enemy's management, did her job to protect Jeff's position in Arch Enemy by limiting what else he can do while in their band.

From their perspective, the Arch Enemy lead guitarist position was a revolving door, with people coming in and out for years and years and years.  They landed Jeff, who wanted to be part of a band again and who is a BIG name musician, and they wanted to make sure he wouldn't be tempted to walk away from the band should Nevermore try to reunite.  They're keeping the lineup stable.  Jeff did play a song with Sanctuary in Seattle in tribute to Warrel (whether he could freely do so or whether he cleared it with management is another thing), so it's not like he can't do anything else.  He just can't do things in Nevermore while playing in Arch Enemy.

I get it from Arch Enemy's standpoint, but that's a bullshit clause to put in an agreement. And something Jeff shouldn't have signed. He may have felt he needed to at the time. But that's all sorts of bullshit. It'd be less bullshit if they let Jeff write half the songs, but he can't do that either. So essentially, Loomis can do his solo instrumental work, but if he ever wanted to take Nevermore out of mothballs, he'd have to quit Arch Enemy to do it. Absolute bullshit unless AE allows Loomis to write and actively be a creative songwriter in AE.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Dreaming Neon Black and Dead Heart in a Dead World are their two best, IMO. Hands down. 

 

By the way, there are songs on DNB that could almost pass for darker and gloomier Queensryche songs (thinking Promised Land-era)...the title-track, certainly, but also tunes like The Lotus Eater. Dane certainly took some pages from Tate's playbook there.

Funnily enough, I've always thought the title-track from Tribe sort of came full-circle that way, with the singing influences...the start of the song, with Tate singing "the face of God", sounds a lot like Dane  is it just me?

Fascinating, I've always wanted to get into Queensryche more, there's some darker, theatrical northwest commonality there, but I haven't paid as much attention to their later output.  Definitely some similarity there. 

After hearing that the Arch Enemy camp sort of worked against Jeff and Warrel reuniting I kind of low-key hate that band for it?    Nothing serious, but damn. Fate served Nevermore a raw deal, they really deserved better.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread at the time Warrel died, but I understand Arch Enemy's reasoning.  From what I gleaned through a long-since deleted post that Warrel made, and other statements - Jeff's contract specifically kept him from working with Nevermore again.  It isn't that Arch Enemy actively worked against Nevermore.  It's that Angela Gossow, as Arch Enemy's management, did her job to protect Jeff's position in Arch Enemy by limiting what else he can do while in their band.

From their perspective, the Arch Enemy lead guitarist position was a revolving door, with people coming in and out for years and years and years.  They landed Jeff, who wanted to be part of a band again and who is a BIG name musician, and they wanted to make sure he wouldn't be tempted to walk away from the band should Nevermore try to reunite.  They're keeping the lineup stable.  Jeff did play a song with Sanctuary in Seattle in tribute to Warrel (whether he could freely do so or whether he cleared it with management is another thing), so it's not like he can't do anything else.  He just can't do things in Nevermore while playing in Arch Enemy.

I get it from Arch Enemy's standpoint, but that's a bullshit clause to put in an agreement. And something Jeff shouldn't have signed. He may have felt he needed to at the time. But that's all sorts of bullshit. It'd be less bullshit if they let Jeff write half the songs, but he can't do that either. So essentially, Loomis can do his solo instrumental work, but if he ever wanted to take Nevermore out of mothballs, he'd have to quit Arch Enemy to do it. Absolute bullshit unless AE allows Loomis to write and actively be a creative songwriter in AE.

Yeah, it annoys me that Jeff is basically at the hired gunslinger point of his career.  I guess he just got tired of barely scraping by with low-mid tier projects.  But at this point it's been eight years since he's done any original material, with the Conquering Dystopia project. 

[Samsara]

Dreaming Neon Black and Dead Heart in a Dead World are their two best, IMO. Hands down. 

 

By the way, there are songs on DNB that could almost pass for darker and gloomier Queensryche songs (thinking Promised Land-era)...the title-track, certainly, but also tunes like The Lotus Eater. Dane certainly took some pages from Tate's playbook there.

Funnily enough, I've always thought the title-track from Tribe sort of came full-circle that way, with the singing influences...the start of the song, with Tate singing "the face of God", sounds a lot like Dane  is it just me?

Yeah, I've always thought there was a bit of Queensryche vibe and influence on WD. Yeah, I hear that on "Tribe." It's been a bit since I've listened to that song. I tend to ignore the material DeGarmo didn't at least play on. But that particular track was a good one.

Fascinating, I've always wanted to get into Queensryche more, there's some darker, theatrical northwest commonality there, but I haven't paid as much attention to their later output.  Definitely some similarity there. 

QR has lost that northwest thing since Mindcrime 2 in 2006. That's when outside writers began composing the tracks. But if you're not generally a QR fan, but did Nevermore's Dreaming Neon Black, everything from the EP-Promised Land might work. They aren't as heavy as Nevermore (really, a totally different subgenre, honestly), but there are some similarities at points for sure.

[nick_z]

Yeah, I've always thought there was a bit of Queensryche vibe and influence on WD. Yeah, I hear that on "Tribe." It's been a bit since I've listened to that song. I tend to ignore the material DeGarmo didn't at least play on. But that particular track was a good one.

Yep, the title track is excellent, and in general I find Tribe (the album) to be underrated. It is my favorite of the post-HITNF and pre-LaTorre period, by some margin. It obviously can't compete with the classic period, but there are some traces of the band that I love, and I enjoy putting it on from time to time.

Fascinating, I've always wanted to get into Queensryche more, there's some darker, theatrical northwest commonality there, but I haven't paid as much attention to their later output.  Definitely some similarity there. 

QR has lost that northwest thing since Mindcrime 2 in 2006. That's when outside writers began composing the tracks. But if you're not generally a QR fan, but did Nevermore's Dreaming Neon Black, everything from the EP-Promised Land might work. They aren't as heavy as Nevermore (really, a totally different subgenre, honestly), but there are some similarities at points for sure.

Agreed that the similarity is more about a certain vibe that pops up in certain songs/moments. Definitely a different genre, otherwise.

Litho - I assume you have heard Promised Land. If not, you definitely should. I have a feeling you would like it, given your appreciation for that kind of darker/melancholic approach...

[Samsara]

Nick - if it helps:

Queensryche original lineup on Tribe:

Open
Desert Dance
Falling Behind
The Art of Life
Doin' Fine

The rest are the remaining original four without DeGarmo (Mike Stone plays the slide on Rhythm of Hope, and co-writes and plays on Losing Myself)

I tend to consider the above tracks its own separate EP (adding the song "Justified" which was written in those sessions, but not recorded until a greatest hits package in 2006). Those six songs, I consider "Tribe," where the band was together. If you A/B those tracks, and the remaining on the record, you'll likely notice a big difference in overall sonics.

[nick_z]

Nick - if it helps:

Queensryche original lineup on Tribe:

Open
Desert Dance
Falling Behind
The Art of Life
Doin' Fine

The rest are the remaining original four without DeGarmo (Mike Stone plays the slide on Rhythm of Hope, and co-writes and plays on Losing Myself)

I tend to consider the above tracks its own separate EP (adding the song "Justified" which was written in those sessions, but not recorded until a greatest hits package in 2006). Those six songs, I consider "Tribe," where the band was together. If you A/B those tracks, and the remaining on the record, you'll likely notice a big difference in overall sonics.

Thank you - yes, I knew that DeGarmo was involved in writing/co-writing some songs and playing on the album. I remember leading up to the album's release there was some excitement building since, based on what was transpiring, there was a perception (hope?) a reunion was in the cards. Clearly, that didn't happen 

I have to say...my enjoyment of the album, as it turns out, is somewhat independent of DeGarmo involvement. In fact, some of my favorite songs are not part of the EP you mention above  It's not like there weren't duds but, like I said, there is plenty to like on it (more so, imo, than in their other albums of that "era")

[wolfking]

Tribe is an excellent album.  I simply never understood the hate towards it.  The title track would have made it high on my top 40 if the album was eligible.

[wolfking]

After hearing that the Arch Enemy camp sort of worked against Jeff and Warrel reuniting I kind of low-key hate that band for it?    Nothing serious, but damn. Fate served Nevermore a raw deal, they really deserved better.

I wrote about this earlier in the thread at the time Warrel died, but I understand Arch Enemy's reasoning.  From what I gleaned through a long-since deleted post that Warrel made, and other statements - Jeff's contract specifically kept him from working with Nevermore again.  It isn't that Arch Enemy actively worked against Nevermore.  It's that Angela Gossow, as Arch Enemy's management, did her job to protect Jeff's position in Arch Enemy by limiting what else he can do while in their band.

From their perspective, the Arch Enemy lead guitarist position was a revolving door, with people coming in and out for years and years and years.  They landed Jeff, who wanted to be part of a band again and who is a BIG name musician, and they wanted to make sure he wouldn't be tempted to walk away from the band should Nevermore try to reunite.  They're keeping the lineup stable.  Jeff did play a song with Sanctuary in Seattle in tribute to Warrel (whether he could freely do so or whether he cleared it with management is another thing), so it's not like he can't do anything else.  He just can't do things in Nevermore while playing in Arch Enemy.

I get it from Arch Enemy's standpoint, but that's a bullshit clause to put in an agreement. And something Jeff shouldn't have signed. He may have felt he needed to at the time. But that's all sorts of bullshit. It'd be less bullshit if they let Jeff write half the songs, but he can't do that either. So essentially, Loomis can do his solo instrumental work, but if he ever wanted to take Nevermore out of mothballs, he'd have to quit Arch Enemy to do it. Absolute bullshit unless AE allows Loomis to write and actively be a creative songwriter in AE.

Pretty much feel the same here.  Would be interesting if Nevermore did reunite with a new signer.  Not sure who would replace Warrel but would be something special.  Seems like though it will never happen.

[Samsara]

Thank you - yes, I knew that DeGarmo was involved in writing/co-writing some songs and playing on the album. I remember leading up to the album's release there was some excitement building since, based on what was transpiring, there was a perception (hope?) a reunion was in the cards. Clearly, that didn't happen 

I have to say...my enjoyment of the album, as it turns out, is somewhat independent of DeGarmo involvement. In fact, some of my favorite songs are not part of the EP you mention above  It's not like there weren't duds but, like I said, there is plenty to like on it (more so, imo, than in their other albums of that "era")

No problem. I totally get what you are saying. Of the non-DeGarmo tracks, my favorites are Tribe, The Great Divide and Rhythm of Hope. But there's a feeling of incompleteness to it. Did you know that The Great Divide was supposed to have a solo? The album got pushed back twice after DeGarmo left the sessions and the band was in disagreement on the direction. So Wilton never put down the solo that's supposed to be in the tune. He finally added it, live, on the fall 2003 tour. It's a simple solo, but very moody, and works with the arrangement of the song, taking it up a notch.

Another example is "Blood." DeGarmo allegedly had another guitar part, a counter point to Wilton's, which never got recorded. So the song is like half done.

That's why that record really feels off to me, and why I think the DeGarmo tracks truly represent where the band was going. DeGarmo gave them direction and completeness. Those tracks in that "EP" I mentioned are finished, and they feel finished. Whereas the others...not quite so much. Still cool, like I said, those three non-DeGarmo tracks I like a lot. But they are half-baked, and it's a shame. I really wish everyone was on better terms. Tribe was a loss for the record company, and who knows who owns the rights to it now since it was released on the now-defunct Sanctuary records. But with its 20th anniversary next year, I'd love to hear "Losing Myself" yanked off of it (it was only added because Stone helped them finish the record), "Justified" added, and all the parts they had had planned on recording (what I mentioned above) done by the original lineup. I have a feeling Tribe would be a lot better.

I like Tribe. With those DeGarmo tracks, there's this (I talk about this a lot) natural songwriting arc. It's like they picked back up from HITNF, got a little moodier, more aggressive riffs, and were going places I liked. Had they done the full record as they intended (DeGarmo was coming back - a disagreement between Tate, Tate's wife, and DeGarmo allegedly caused DeGarmo to pack up and leave), I think it would have been very highly regarded.

Check this out - https://anybodylistening.net/tribe.html

I wrote up the details on the whole thing and included some facts some folks may not know about the record.

[Samsara]

Pretty much feel the same here.  Would be interesting if Nevermore did reunite with a new signer.  Not sure who would replace Warrel but would be something special.  Seems like though it will never happen.

It would have to be a unique singer. The guy who sings for Witherfall (who is now Sanctuary's singer) is great, but not the right vibe. But yeah, with Jeff firmly entrenched with Arch Enemy, probably never going to happen. Sucks.

[nick_z]

Thank you - yes, I knew that DeGarmo was involved in writing/co-writing some songs and playing on the album. I remember leading up to the album's release there was some excitement building since, based on what was transpiring, there was a perception (hope?) a reunion was in the cards. Clearly, that didn't happen 

I have to say...my enjoyment of the album, as it turns out, is somewhat independent of DeGarmo involvement. In fact, some of my favorite songs are not part of the EP you mention above  It's not like there weren't duds but, like I said, there is plenty to like on it (more so, imo, than in their other albums of that "era")

No problem. I totally get what you are saying. Of the non-DeGarmo tracks, my favorites are Tribe, The Great Divide and Rhythm of Hope. But there's a feeling of incompleteness to it. Did you know that The Great Divide was supposed to have a solo? The album got pushed back twice after DeGarmo left the sessions and the band was in disagreement on the direction. So Wilton never put down the solo that's supposed to be in the tune. He finally added it, live, on the fall 2003 tour. It's a simple solo, but very moody, and works with the arrangement of the song, taking it up a notch.

Another example is "Blood." DeGarmo allegedly had another guitar part, a counter point to Wilton's, which never got recorded. So the song is like half done.

That's why that record really feels off to me, and why I think the DeGarmo tracks truly represent where the band was going. DeGarmo gave them direction and completeness. Those tracks in that "EP" I mentioned are finished, and they feel finished. Whereas the others...not quite so much. Still cool, like I said, those three non-DeGarmo tracks I like a lot. But they are half-baked, and it's a shame. I really wish everyone was on better terms. Tribe was a loss for the record company, and who knows who owns the rights to it now since it was released on the now-defunct Sanctuary records. But with its 20th anniversary next year, I'd love to hear "Losing Myself" yanked off of it (it was only added because Stone helped them finish the record), "Justified" added, and all the parts they had had planned on recording (what I mentioned above) done by the original lineup. I have a feeling Tribe would be a lot better.

I like Tribe. With those DeGarmo tracks, there's this (I talk about this a lot) natural songwriting arc. It's like they picked back up from HITNF, got a little moodier, more aggressive riffs, and were going places I liked. Had they done the full record as they intended (DeGarmo was coming back - a disagreement between Tate, Tate's wife, and DeGarmo allegedly caused DeGarmo to pack up and leave), I think it would have been very highly regarded.

Check this out - https://anybodylistening.net/tribe.html

I wrote up the details on the whole thing and included some facts some folks may not know about the record.

My favorite non-DeGarmo tracks on the album are exactly the same as yours. And no, I didn't know about the "missing" parts from those songs - thanks for that, it's super cool to hear/read (and sad too, in a way, knowing what could've been...)

[Samsara]

Search out Queensryche, 2003, The Great Divide, live. You'll find it. Wilton did that one in the fall of that year on the Tribe headline tour. It was only a few shows he did the solo. I want to say St. Louis could be one of them, but I don't remember exactly. But if you listen to a few during that fall run, you'll find it.

[WardySI]

Search out Queensryche, 2003, The Great Divide, live. You'll find it. Wilton did that one in the fall of that year on the Tribe headline tour. It was only a few shows he did the solo. I want to say St. Louis could be one of them, but I don't remember exactly. But if you listen to a few during that fall run, you'll find it.

Wasn't OPEN intended to have a solo too or am I thinking that because IIRC that too because Wilton added a live solo?  That song was begging for a solo!

Tribe is an excellent album.  I simply never understood the hate towards it.  The title track would have made it high on my top 40 if the album was eligible.

Same albeit Open would've been my first addition from Tribe...

And back on topic love me some Nevermore but other than some tribute shows a live setting kinda deal, much like Soundgarden think some things should be left as they are.

Dead Heart is not only a fave NM but a favorite album period \m/

[EVILPROGBOY]

Pretty much feel the same here.  Would be interesting if Nevermore did reunite with a new signer.  Not sure who would replace Warrel but would be something special.  Seems like though it will never happen.

It would have to be a unique singer. The guy who sings for Witherfall (who is now Sanctuary's singer) is great, but not the right vibe. But yeah, with Jeff firmly entrenched with Arch Enemy, probably never going to happen. Sucks.

I think the Witherfall singer is more suited to Nevermore actually. Listen to the deeper Witherfall cuts.

[Samsara]

Wardy - didn't see this until now. I'm not sure, honestly. I don't remember. But I agree, it should have had one. Wilton played this little solo bit live. But it was just a quick little one, if I recall correctly.

[Samsara]

Spending some time with Dead Heart in a Dead World this morning, after I noticed Jeff Loomis posted something about it. It's as glorious as ever. What an amazing record. 

[wolfking]

There's something about the flow of that album that works so well.  You have highlights placed all over which makes it a consistent listen across the board.

[Shalev Amir]

There's something about the flow of that album that works so well.  You have highlights placed all over which makes it a consistent listen across the board.

I wonder what you consider to be the highlights, because I know mine change all the time, while I have clear favourites on all the other albums.

[Samsara]

WK - agreed completely. I noticed throughout the record that memorable melodies sprung up deep within the record. It was Nevermore's finest moment creatively, IMO.

[Grappler]

I still remember hearing The River Dragon Has Come for the first time and being knocked over by that riff.   

[LithoJazzoSphere]

For a long time "The River Dragon Has Come" was my goto song for testing out new headphones and sound systems.  Very few songs can do 0-100 so effectively.  I discovered it, Fear Factory's "Zero Signal", and In Flames' "Pinball Map" all within half a year of each other.  Two decades later and there aren't really many better guitar tones around. 

[The Realm]

For a long time "The River Dragon Has Come" was my goto song for testing out new headphones and sound systems.  Very few songs can do 0-100 so effectively.  I discovered it, Fear Factory's "Zero Signal", and In Flames' "Pinball Map" all within half a year of each other.  Two decades later and there aren't really many better guitar tones around.

In Flames - Pinball Map! How awesome is that song!

Back on thread topic, awesome to see Nevermore getting lots of love, Dead Heart in a Dead World is just an amazing album and The River Dragon has always been a favourite of mine.

[wolfking]

There's something about the flow of that album that works so well.  You have highlights placed all over which makes it a consistent listen across the board.

I wonder what you consider to be the highlights, because I know mine change all the time, while I have clear favourites on all the other albums.

For me, Narcosynthesis, Inside Four Walls, Riverdragon, The Heart Collector, Engines of Hate, Believe in Nothing and the title track.  I know that's over half the album haha.

[TAC]

I just listened to the first song on Dead Heart, and the guitar is simply tuned too low for me to enjoy it.

[wolfking]

I just listened to the first song on Dead Heart, and the guitar is simply tuned too low for me to enjoy it.

I find this a surprising statement.  I thought you were into Nevermore, guess I'm wrong.

Nevermore play in B flat, a seven string tuned down half a step, so yeah, pretty heavy I guess.

[TAC]

I just listened to the first song on Dead Heart, and the guitar is simply tuned too low for me to enjoy it.

I find this a surprising statement.  I thought you were into Nevermore, guess I'm wrong.

Nevermore play in B flat, a seven string tuned down half a step, so yeah, pretty heavy I guess.

I'm not into Nevermore at all. For just this reason. The song you had on your Concept Album was good, but I know they're a lot heavier than that. I have the same problem with Alter Bridge.

[wolfking]

I just listened to the first song on Dead Heart, and the guitar is simply tuned too low for me to enjoy it.

I find this a surprising statement.  I thought you were into Nevermore, guess I'm wrong.

Nevermore play in B flat, a seven string tuned down half a step, so yeah, pretty heavy I guess.

I'm not into Nevermore at all. For just this reason. The song you had on your Concept Album was good, but I know they're a lot heavier than that. I have the same problem with Alter Bridge.

You'll find that out when you get to the final act of my story. 

With the sounds like Nevermore/Alter Bridge, I do know what you mean.

[nick_z]

I just listened to the first song on Dead Heart, and the guitar is simply tuned too low for me to enjoy it.

Tim - try the second one from the album, We Disintegrate. Not that you have to like Nevermore, of course, but that one has a mix of heavy and “classic” that’s excellent.

[Glasser]

(L to R) Me, Tony Truglio (Liege Lord), and Van Williams (Nevermore, Liege Lord). My crew at the Queensryche show last April!!!! 

[wolfking]

  Fuck yeah!