The Nevermore Appreciation Thread

[black_biff_stadler]

I just think his vocal style sucks a lot of the time. He has some cool moments but uses enough vibrato to make JLB blush. Also, much like Evanescence's Amy Lee, he's very one-dimensional in his expression of moods. Whether softspoken or belting it out, he almost always sounds sad. On rare occasions, he sounds angry or frustrated but it seems like he always tries to milk the sorrow angle.

[NotePad]

Oh yea, he definately milks the sorrow angle. But i felt he had a lot of variety on dead heart.

you should listen to the Sorrowed Man
it is a great song though

[Ultimetalhead]

I think the reason Nevermore never really exploded was because there was a MASSIVE 5 year gap between TGE and TOC, and TOC wasn't good enough to rekindle the interest. That's the problem with going 5 years between releases for a band. It works for bands like Rush who have established a household name in the music biz, but for a band trying to get recognized, you have to keep getting music out there, or touring at the very least. I can't think of a single band that anyone cares about that goes 5-6 years between albums.

[NotePad]

I think the reason Nevermore never really exploded was because there was a MASSIVE 5 year gap between TGE and TOC, and TOC wasn't good enough to rekindle the interest. That's the problem with going 5 years between releases for a band. It works for bands like Rush who have established a household name in the music biz, but for a band trying to get recognized, you have to keep getting music out there, or touring at the very least. I can't think of a single band that anyone cares about that goes 5-6 years between albums.

That is very true. Metallica gets away with it because they're, well, the biggest band in the world! (and i attribute a lot of the reason for that being BECAUSE they've experimented and stayed fresh). Tool can do it too, cuz they have a HUGELY dedicated fanbase, and APC may also have helped TOOL stay on top.

They shouldn't have taken such a big break after TGE, that's true. But a lot of bands do that after a hugely successful album. Metallica did it with the Black album, and ever since (cuz they metallica; see above statement). Didn't Shadows Fall take a long break before anything new after The War Within? That was not only a critical success, but a sales success considering it was straight up thrash.

Although TGE was a huge critical success and every metalhead worldwide fucking loved it, was it a financial success? Did it sell well? Because if it wasn't as financially as those bands i just mentioned, then then could be a reason for the lack of interest in Nevermore. I remember when TOC came out, even I had lost interest and wasn't that excited about it. (i've still yet to buy it ; unfortunately ;p)

They also maybe shouldn't have done those solo albums. Because i'm sure not nearly as many people bought those as they did Nevermore records.

[Ultimetalhead]

Considering they were on Century Media at the time, which only sells to the fans and not to the masses, I doubt it sold very well at all. Bands like Metallica, Rush, Tool, APC, etc. are on labels that promote EVERYWHERE. It's just more proof that the crowdfunding is the way of the future as far as music is concerned. The money goes straight from the fan to the artist, with no label middleman. Sure, big bands like Rush and Metallica would lose the worldwide promotion, but for bands that are on labels like Century or hell even Nuclear Blast (who already only promote to the fans anyway), they're hardly losing anything at all.

[NotePad]

In my last comment I said parts of Dead Heart and 2 songs of of Enemies of Reality sounded like Nevermore trying to make it mainsteam. I don't know if that's the case (one could just say it was simply melody and not an attempt at a commercial hit ,  but why can't Nevermore get onto the same type of label as a band like Tool? There are aspects of Nevermore and certain songs they've done that could get the more exposure to the masses if a label were to take them on and push them. I keep forgetting that 'underground' metal bands like this are usually on Metal labels.

[Ultimetalhead]

In my last comment I said parts of Dead Heart and 2 songs of of Enemies of Reality sounded like Nevermore trying to make it mainsteam. I don't know if that's the case (one could just say it was simply melody and not an attempt at a commercial hit ,  but why can't Nevermore get onto the same type of label as a band like Tool? There are aspects of Nevermore and certain songs they've done that could get the more exposure to the masses if a label were to take them on and push them. I keep forgetting that 'underground' metal bands like this are usually on Metal labels.

Well obviously. Those are the only labels that will sign them. If a metal band ever makes it onto a major label that deals in ANYTHING other than metal, it's usually the label "taking a chance" with a band on the off-hope that they can get some reasonable mainstream appeal. I mean, Mr. Bungle was on Warner Bros. for fuck's sake. Occasionally, the label ends up promoting them, and they hit it big with a portion of the mainstream crowd. Unfortunately, the sad reality is that for most bands that doesn't happen, and then any successful label will milk them for the rest of their contract, and them cut them loose thousands of dollars into debt from unrecouped album advances.

[NotePad]

Interesting.

I don't really pay attention to what label releases what CD or band. I do usually recognize when I buy a CD from Nuclear Blast; my favorite band, Helloween, is on them....or was, i don't really know anymore ;p

I do wonder about Tool though. Just because they are very much a metal band. People say their first album is more tradition then the rest, but still, the biggest hit was Sober- is that a traditional song?

I don't know what label Tool is with though. Are they a case of a big label taking a chance, or just a really successful metal band with a metal label? Or a big inbetween label? idk

[pain of occupation]

why cant they get on a label offering more exposure? well, no longer existing factors in.

also, im glad as fuck they did them solo albums. some good stuff on warrell's album, but jeff's first solo endeavour fucking killed! (not so much on #2)

[NotePad]

I would rather have had another Nevermore album...

[Ultimetalhead]

Interesting.

I don't really pay attention to what label releases what CD or band. I do usually recognize when I buy a CD from Nuclear Blast; my favorite band, Helloween, is on them....or was, i don't really know anymore ;p

I do wonder about Tool though. Just because they are very much a metal band. People say their first album is more tradition then the rest, but still, the biggest hit was Sober- is that a traditional song?

I don't know what label Tool is with though. Are they a case of a big label taking a chance, or just a really successful metal band with a metal label? Or a big inbetween label? idk

Tool was on Zoo for 3 albums. Seems odd until you find out that the president of Zoo was the president of Island Records (which is FUCKING HUGE) for a long time, and they were distributed by BMG, who is also huge. Chances are, the label believed in them enough to promote them like hell, and they ended up recouping BIG time, so they continued to receive support.

[NotePad]

As i listen to their music a lot more recently, i wonder what genre Nevermore can be classed as? They definately have elements of all types, like power metal elements, doom elements, thrash elements. I have a feeling that if Warrel wasn't in the bands and they instead had a more typical metal vocalist, like a growling-type vocalist, they would be considered death metal. Vocals play a big part in genre classing, and Warrel's style makes the band very hard to class.

But honestly, I would classify Nevermore as Thrash metal. They're not totally speed metal (but have elements of it), so you can't just call them a Speed Metal band. (some people describe power metal bands as speed metal).  When I think of Nevermore i also think of bands like Megadeth, and Metallica. So I say they're Thrash metal. It's really the best term. And in that case, there should be The Big 4 of thrash- Nevermore is the 4th!!!! or just replace Anthrax's spot with them ;p

[Ultimetalhead]

I typically call them progressive thrash metal. Even so, there's a lot of elements in their music that isn't remotely thrashy at all. Probably just good old-fashioned progressive metal would make more sense.

[NotePad]

With my job i spend a lot of time driving. I'v been listening to Nevermore A LOT. Mostly Dead Heart and TGE, because my Enemies and DNB cds disappeared. There's a big difference in those 2 albums. TGE goes back to some of their earlier stuff; it's very heavy and dark, no 'sentimental' or 'soft' moments, just heaviness and asskicking. It mixes the brutalness and dark sound of say DNB with their more recent guitar sound, creating a new Nevermore guitar sound...know what i mean? it's less metallic then DH and EoR (see earlier post about 'metallic' sound).

And Dead heart has more flow and melody overall. There's more midtempo songs, and some more 'sentimental' moments with song like Heart Collector, Believe in Nothing etc. Love the last song. fucking awesome. TGE is more brutal. I'v always preffered the sound of Dead Heart. I always attributed the DH sound to the 7 string guitar, but it was also used on TGE, right? so i really dont know what a 7 string sounds like i guess ;p

Both albums are good and sound like Nevermore, but such different sides of Nevermore. Does anyone else know what i mean about their 'metallic' sound on DH and EoR?

[pain of occupation]

...I have a feeling that if Warrel wasn't in the bands and they instead had a more typical metal vocalist, like a growling-type vocalist, they would be considered death metal. Vocals play a big part in genre classing, and Warrel's style makes the band very hard to class.

oh this, big time. its extreme/death metal sans extreme vox (and sans blast beats, mostly). theyre the perfect band for people that enjoy really heavy music but mostly despise growling.

[Ultimetalhead]

Nevermore made the shift to 7-strings on Dead Heart and never went back. I also quite like Politics of Ecstasy, but for me Nevermore didn't get seriously awesome until they got that utterly crushing low-end sound they're known for. I do ever so slightly agree that Dead Heart seems a lot more "punishing" than TGE, but I think that's more of a production thing.

[NotePad]

...I have a feeling that if Warrel wasn't in the bands and they instead had a more typical metal vocalist, like a growling-type vocalist, they would be considered death metal. Vocals play a big part in genre classing, and Warrel's style makes the band very hard to class.

oh this, big time. its extreme/death metal sans extreme vox (and sans blast beats, mostly). theyre the perfect band for people that enjoy really heavy music but mostly despise growling.

True of course, but then there are songs like Heart Collector or Who Decides. They're such a hard band to class in a genre.

And yea, Ultimetalhead, i agree, they didn't get really awesome until they got that sound which began with Dead Heart. It must be a 7 string? But DNB actually sounds like the guitars are lower, if memory is correct. But I guess Jeff Loomis just know to made a guitar sound right.

I first got into Dead Heart, the went back and bought DNB and was very disappointed and to this day i have yet to listen to any albums before DNB other then a few songs. I'm not the biggest Nevermore fan in the world, i'll admit, but i love them and amd still discovering their stuff. I do remember liking Sorrowed Man and Garden of Grey, which were on the early records.

[Ultimetalhead]

Politics is pretty fantastic overall. Seven Tongues of God, Next in Line, and the title track are all wonderful, and The Learning is often considered to be one of their best songs.

[NotePad]

So according to Warrel Dane, Nevermore is not dead, and some big names are apparently trying to replace Loomis. There was also a quote where Loomis said a reunion isn't out of the question. You can't have Nevermore without Loomis, that's just fuckin ridiculous, can't Dane see that?

And Sanctuary is getting back together and working on a new album. I'm not familiar with them other then the relationship to this band. I listened to parts of Sanctuary and didnt even recognize Warrel dane at first. At times he sounded like a Halford impersonator. Amazing how he changed his style so much for nevermore. But really, I'm not excited about sanctuary getting back together. I never listened to them. Could be good. But why would they reunite anyways? Were they big? Are there really gonna be people that care when they release something new? I'm mean, i might listen to it, but i'm not particularly caring that they're back.

[Ultimetalhead]

Nevermore without Jeff Loomis will fail miserably. Nevermore without Warrel Dane will also fail miserably. There's simply no way around it. Both of these guys are key components of the sound, and there's no way that Nevermore can exist without them.

[NotePad]

I'm hoping, and part of me feels, that ultimately they will get back together and that right now they're really taking a break. It'll probably be a pretty long break, if they do reunite.

[jammindude]

So according to Warrel Dane, Nevermore is not dead, and some big names are apparently trying to replace Loomis. There was also a quote where Loomis said a reunion isn't out of the question. You can't have Nevermore without Loomis, that's just fuckin ridiculous, can't Dane see that?

And Sanctuary is getting back together and working on a new album. I'm not familiar with them other then the relationship to this band. I listened to parts of Sanctuary and didnt even recognize Warrel dane at first. At times he sounded like a Halford impersonator. Amazing how he changed his style so much for nevermore. But really, I'm not excited about sanctuary getting back together. I never listened to them. Could be good. But why would they reunite anyways? Were they big? Are there really gonna be people that care when they release something new? I'm mean, i might listen to it, but i'm not particularly caring that they're back.

They have faded a bit into obscurity/cult status due to fact that they only released two albums...but *at that time* I would say they were a "west coast Overkill".   They were on a major label, they had a video on MTV, they seemed to be going somewhere...their first album was produced by Dave Mustaine...   (I think Overkill was bigger on the east coast than the west, and I think the equal/opposite would be true of Sanctuary)

I really think you should give them another shot.   Go listen to "Taste Revenge/Long Since Dark", tracks 2 and 3 from Into the Mirror Black.   It is some of the best metal of that entire era.   It's very "proto-Nevermore" and in fact, Nevermore continued to play those songs live for quite some time.

I still think Nevermore's self titled debut is very much a continuation of the Sanctuary sound, and bridges the gap perfectly between Into the Mirror Black and Politics of Ecstasy.

[Scorpion]

Bumpage due to me recently getting The Year of the Voyager.

Which is one of the best live album in the history of forever.

Which led me to revisit all the other Nevermore albums.

Which in turn made me sad that Jeff Loomis left.

Which I cured again by listening to Year of the Voyager again.

[wolfking]

I hope Nevermore do come back at some stage.  It seemed with the last album they were getting a bit stale, and probably needed the time off.  I think the members should have just put the band on hiatus, instead of the whole split thing.

[jammindude]

Im just completely ztoked for the new Sanctuary album! 

[Ben_Jamin]

Jeff Loomis' new project Conquering Dystopia is amazing. 

[wolfking]

Jeff Loomis' new project Conquering Dystopia is amazing.

I keep forgetting to order that one, sounds cool.

[jammindude]

For those that have yet to check it out...here is a sample of classic Sanctuary.   You can immediately see why they continued to play this song in the Nevermore sets for awhile.   It fit in fairly well.

Taste Revenge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWGkwAdNNhg

[Ultimetalhead]

Jeff Loomis' new project Conquering Dystopia is amazing.

I keep forgetting to order that one, sounds cool.

Jeff Loomis + Alex Webster on bass = HNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG

[Ben_Jamin]

Going to be checking out Conquering Dystopia tonight with Animals as Leaders. Gonna be kickass

[Deathless]

Sanctuary just released a new track.. and it rips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywhFx-piIE#t=140

[Mister Gold]

Sanctuary just released a new track.. and it rips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywhFx-piIE#t=140

Yup, this sounds terrific! Very "Into the Mirror Black"-ish.

[wolfking]

Sanctuary just released a new track.. and it rips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywhFx-piIE#t=140

This is pretty damn good.

[wolfking]

For those that have yet to check it out...here is a sample of classic Sanctuary.   You can immediately see why they continued to play this song in the Nevermore sets for awhile.   It fit in fairly well.

Taste Revenge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWGkwAdNNhg

Man, I've never heard any old Sanctuary before but this is fucking great.  The riffs and solos actually remind me a lot of Mercyful Fate.

[jammindude]

You really need to get Into the Mirror Black...  It's just so incredible.