That's a great interview, even apart from that snippet.
I love this:
Fish : Yeah, that’s it – I just need to break out of this pattern. But like I said, you never know what’s gonna happen, you never know. Its two years down the line, there’s a lot of things in the world that can change things very, very dramatically very, very quickly. That is the current cunning plan.
That was just after Feast of Consequences, so that was what 2013, 2014. And he was mooting "Weltschmerz", and lo and behold: COVID.