The state of the forum?

[MirrorMask]

I agree with Noxon's analysis of the trends about social platforms, but still I claim the right to be a grumpy old man and talk about the good old days. Speaking of this, I want bot ICQ and MSN back 

I still use ICQ.

Not surprised, it was big in Russia and I remember a lot of russian girls were using it 

I'd still use it if anyone would remotely know what it is.

[noxon]

I have no doubt that many younger peeps have no interest in joining forums like this and would rather just click "like" or "join" on a FB page, but I would bet money that most people on a FB page do it and move on while rarely participating.  Looking at what I assume is your DT page on FB (the one with 34K members), I see it has 21 new posts....today.  Today.  This forum can get 21 posts in like two minutes in the various threads.    So yeah, while the FB pages and whatnot can rack up the numbers of members, the community isn't really there otherwise you'd see a lot more posts in general, and that is what you get at a forum like this.  Maybe we are the old men yelling at the cloud that our way is still better, maybe not, but I will still take this over FB, reddit or whatever any day of the week.

You're mudding the waters with unclear term usages. Posts on this forum = comments on facebook. Threads on this forum = posts on facebook.

And; 21 new posts today - but you have to compare this to the dream theater subforum. Cause that's what my group is. It's ONLY the dream theater subforum. And how many new threads are there on the DT subforum? None - they were all started over a month ago. In my group, over the course of a month there's been 1373 posts, with 17080 comments and 129197 reactions. Now, you may well argue (rightly so) that the depth of the discussion in those 1373 posts isn't as deep as this forum can have, but if we're talking engagement it's not as clear cut as you state. This entire forum had 153 threads from June till today. 13068 posts. Averages about 5 threads a day.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?action=stats


Sorry about that edit flub, wasn't my intention.

[ErHaO]

Would be very sad if this forum quits as well. Discovered a lot of cool stuf through the passionate people posting here. I am kind of sad I missed the peak of forums back in the day, I have witnessed all of the other forums I started posting on in my (late) teens die out in a matter of years (mostly music, television or game related). The fact that this forum still has a core group interacting well past the rise of social media and platforms like reddit speaks volumes in my opinion.

Reddit is fine and all, but a very different experience. A lot of subreddits are either very calm/dead or very crowded and apersonal. I do like that there are many long form posts and sometimes interesting debates going on. Social media started to take over when I was in high school. And while that was actually very fun and all initially on a personal level, something changed over the years, at least for me. I really think social media has taken a turn for the worst in the last five years or so, especially twitter seems like a dumpsterfire of online hissy fits. What I do enjoy about facebook though, is pages of artists and how they communicate with fans, so no it is not all negative. But what I like about forums vs those fb pages is that there tends to be more long form communication between (kind of) strangers in regards to a wide(r) variety of topics. Just look at the discography threads here, as an example. A band facebook page is very different in nature, at least in my experience for most of my favourite artists and/or intellectual properties. Discord seems interesting, but I have yet to explore that.

Taken together I totally get why forums are mostly dead and yes I am using modern platforms as well, but I think there are some differences outside of nostalgia that make me miss the forums that have already died, for sure. And for most of them (probably all) I wasn't even there during their peaks.

[MirrorMask]

I've found that Reddit is great for reviews / discussions. Reading after an episode of a TV show the various opinions and discussions is a nice experience, you get many different point of views.

It's even better than reading a review because with a review you get ONE point of view of someone who tries to be professional, when it's every fan of the show commenting you get various point of views and the occasional joke to laugh at.

[Stadler]

Case in point; DTF has 5600 members amassed over the course of 13 years. The r/Dreamtheater has 16.1k members over 11 years. My DT facebook group has 34k members. It's just a completely different scale. Of course, the forum has played an important part of DT history, but it's no longer the bastion of DT communication as it once was.

I think that misses the point, though.  Respectfully.

I'm not interested in 34,000 people, I'm interested in my FRIENDS.   I suppose I could start and amass another whole friend group, but I'm 52 and I'm not sure I'm up for that again, frankly.   And that assumes that the same vibe and environment and context can be replicated... I'm not willing to wager on that.  I've been on several forums over the years, and they vary, mostly inferior to here.  There's another forum that's a remnant of MP's and it's not the same.  Great people, no doubt, but the chemistry is different and so it's not the same.  Maybe that other one has cleaned up over the years, but for a while it was morally offensive.   Some people here (myself included) are not on Facebook.  Have no interest in Reddit.   The one place where EVERYONE is?  HERE. 

I'm not delusional; if this goes away, I'll figure it out as I usually do, but it's comfort, and while some may dismiss that as 'living in the past', in this age of Trump, Covid, BLM, etc. etc. etc., maybe a little comfort ain't such a bad thing.   

[KevShmev]

Well said, Stadler, and to touch on the numbers thing, I have noticed that trend with most FB group pages. There are constant new topics about reaching this many members and whatnot. I get that getting more fans is great, but it often feels like they care more about racking up the "like" and "join" numbers than having great discussions (which are often hampered by the super strict rules those pages usually have).

[noxon]

Nobody is disputing that you've found friends here, and that friends is a good thing to have. But look at the development of activity. Over the past decade, every two year you see a reduction in activity by 50%. The outlier is The Astonishing, which caused a certain amount of influx of new members due to the very controversial nature of that album, which increased the activity a lot, leaving 2017 to have no reduction in activity, compared to 2015. But then the trend continued in 2018, and 2019... Point is, even if we don't want to shut down the forum exactly because there are social connections here that are not replicable to other arenas, it's still a sad fact that all things must come to an end. If not today nor yet tomorrow then some other day...

The forum will keep going a while longer. We're not shutting down. I'm just trying to explain - why - this even has been a discussion.

[The Walrus]

Communities will find a way to stick together somehow, one way or another.

[Stadler]

Nobody is disputing that you've found friends here, and that friends is a good thing to have. But look at the development of activity. Over the past decade, every two year you see a reduction in activity by 50%. The outlier is The Astonishing, which caused a certain amount of influx of new members due to the very controversial nature of that album, which increased the activity a lot, leaving 2017 to have no reduction in activity, compared to 2015. But then the trend continued in 2018, and 2019... Point is, even if we don't want to shut down the forum exactly because there are social connections here that are not replicable to other arenas, it's still a sad fact that all things must come to an end. If not today nor yet tomorrow then some other day...

The forum will keep going a while longer. We're not shutting down. I'm just trying to explain - why - this even has been a discussion.

I don't think we're wildly apart.  I totally get that things wind down.   Nothing good lasts forever, as they say.  I think there's a sweet spot of distillation, though.   A critical mass, if you will. 

[Skeever]

Nobody is disputing that you've found friends here, and that friends is a good thing to have. But look at the development of activity. Over the past decade, every two year you see a reduction in activity by 50%. The outlier is The Astonishing, which caused a certain amount of influx of new members due to the very controversial nature of that album, which increased the activity a lot, leaving 2017 to have no reduction in activity, compared to 2015. But then the trend continued in 2018, and 2019... Point is, even if we don't want to shut down the forum exactly because there are social connections here that are not replicable to other arenas, it's still a sad fact that all things must come to an end. If not today nor yet tomorrow then some other day...

The forum will keep going a while longer. We're not shutting down. I'm just trying to explain - why - this even has been a discussion.

Despite the affiliation, DT-related stuff are only one part of the activity of this forum, and that's always been the case for as long as I can remember. General Music and General are significantly busier, and the rest of the boards when combined would also be busier. To me, that speaks to the fact that his community is really not about "engagement" with DT, even if DT is what brought most of us here. Personally, I barely listen to DT anymore, and wouldn't be surprised if that is the case for many people.

I think this community stands on its own, with or without DT. I can understand if the creators of this iteration of DTForums feel a little bit like the board has gotten away from its true purpose, with DT becoming less active and even DT-related activity on this board taking a backseat to other activity. My only ask would be, please consider the alternatives before pulling the plug. The board could go private, or remove the DT affiliation (as these forums have once before). There may be people willing to step up, and coordinate the handover to a new shared space. Previous iterations of this forum were nuked with almost no warning several times in the past, for not good reason other than the people behind them simply didn't care about what happened to the community once the forum was gone.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I can only speak for myself but it's clear when we're talking about popular places for DT fans, this forums has lost it's place too Reddit and Facebook in terms of the amount of members. So in that aspect I can see the reasoning for discussions about the value of this forum on the internet. For me though, this forum is so much more than just DT which in all honesty is not that relevant sadly since it's called dreamtheaterforums.org. So my vote may not mean that much to DT fans only looking for that part of the forum.

Now I hate both Reddit and especially Facebook groups because there's no way to have sub-topics outside of the main subject so to speak and in general they have specific rules to keep the discussion on topic. That's where the forum format is superior atleast for me.

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the split from fiveeightforums because it became a more general forum instead of only DT or something?

[XJDenton]

The state of the Forum is as such:

It's in the cloud, so its obviously a Gas.

[TAC]

What is r/Dreamtheater?

[The Walrus]

What is r/Dreamtheater?

r/[insert thing here] is shorthand for referencing a subject's subreddit. Think of Reddit like DTF for the Internet at large; the subreddits would be subforums like GMD and P/R, and individual posts in those subreddits would be like threads in GMD and P/R.

r/DreamTheater refers to the DT subreddit where DT fans gather to talk about DT and DT-related stuff, memes, etc. You can also just type reddit.com/r/DreamTheater and it'll take you there.

[JayOctavarium]

What is r/Dreamtheater?

The Dream Theater subreddit (subforum?) On reddit.
Edit:
Ninja'd



I personally feel very little sense of community in subreddits and FB groups.

[King Postwhore]

What is r/Dreamtheater?

When mommy and daddy listen to Dreamtheather and make a little r/

for a rocker.

[Evermind]

I personally feel very little sense of community in subreddits and FB groups.

It is definitely a different experience. I love some of the subreddits I'm following: r/DMAcademy and r/DnDBehindTheScreen are amazing for me, r/Haken is good for Haken memes, r/progmetal has some good obscure recommendations sometimes, there are some good book series subs where you can discuss the books you read or shitpost about them which is also great, but indeed none of them have this community vibe.

[jingle.boy]

I tried to follow another forum a number of years back, related to relationships and mental health.  There were simply too many people there though, and threads were moving WAY too fast.  Another great thing about this forum is new people can join, and still manage to fit in and be quickly accepted - Brother Lion, HOF, and Harmony (he says ironically) come to mind as new members that have been able to find their place.

[El Barto]

The forum will keep going a while longer. We're not shutting down. I'm just trying to explain - why - this even has been a discussion.

And just who are you?

In any case, your numbers are correct. However that doesn't change the fact that the forum, FB, and R/ are 3 very different things for 3 very different groups of people. Some people like to discuss music. Sometimes DT and sometimes other bands with people of similar tastes. I find it a sad commentary that discussion has been replaced with drive by  s, but there are still lots of people who want that discussion. FB is NOT a place for discussion. It's a place for self-gratification. As long as there are those of us that enjoy actually talking about music there will be forums such as this, regardless of who owns it.

[Stadler]

That's a nice overview, Bart.   I know for me, once in a while I will put a question out there, but on any given day, I don't come here to talk "Dream Theater", or "Trump" or "Derek Sherinian".   I come here to talk with Bart, and TAC and Chad, and Mike about whatever.  Sometimes about just THEM as people.   I guess I haven't spent enough time there, but "reddit" to me is more like a wikipedia-type source where I go occasionally for information.   I avoid Facebook like the plague (I had reason to sign up - Marketplace - and they delayed my acceptance to Marketplace long enough where it wasn't useful; in the meantime I did a little searching and there's nothing on there that I feel obligated to be a part of.)

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I like reddit a lot and it's good for some things, but there is a sort of impersonality to it that prevents it from replacing a forum like this for me. Not to mention that the way replies work make it better suited to jokes than actual conversation.

[MoraWintersoul]

I like reddit, I like Discord, I like Facebook groups. It's easy to reach a lot of people over them, people do join every day, for people who are interested in building communities and getting responses they're the places to go. But this is already a built community. This is a freaking garden. This is the last old style hobby forum I still have access to (I don't doubt there are others, but not in hobbies that interest me, like heavy music). Yes, there will come a day when it has to fold. But I don't want it to, and no amount of "other communities are just as good and we must go with the times" will scratch my itch for what we have built here all together. Here's a place where I feel safe, where I found some of my best friends, met people who live lives I will never live, that I am endlessly interested in. Here's a place that actually listens to me when I say something, and I can't put any price tag on that.

Plus, not to be a grumpy hag hanging onto something effervescent, but where else am I gonna say "marriage analogy" and have people instantly deriving three sentences worth of meaning with a backstory out of that  where am I gonna have my own emoticon! where am I going to green text for sarcasm! It's not even a garden, it's a full expansive ecosystem, this forum.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Dream Theater is a very unique band with a sort of dichotomy to them. They’ve achieved great success yet remain largely unknown to anyone outside of the prog rock community (compare this to Rush, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, and Tool for a more modern band). They’re a one hit wonder, yet found their success in spite of that instead of because of it (outside of the I,W,&B tour, I’ve only seen them play Pull Me Under once). Their biggest failure came when they tried to have a more accessible sound, and a concept album with complex arrangements saved their career. They aren’t your average band, and their fan base is no different. For most bands, Facebook and sometimes Reddit is enough for their fans. But Dream Theater isn’t like most bands, and we aren’t like most fans. We love in depth discussion about our favorite band and other topics as well, and for that, a dedicated forum is better suited for our needs than a Facebook page and a subreddit. This isn’t just a fandom. We are a community, and this website is our little cul-de-sac.

[ReaperKK]

Glad to hear this place is sticking around, it'd be a bummer to see the forum that I've been visiting since I was a teenager go down. This is one of the only two forums I visit. The rest of the time I'm on reddit.

[lonestar]

I'm really disappointed it took three posts before someone ripped on Tim for the 'what is r/dreamtheater' post. You guys are losing your touch man.

[TAC]

What is r/Dreamtheater?

r/[insert thing here] is shorthand for referencing a subject's subreddit. Think of Reddit like DTF for the Internet at large; the subreddits would be subforums like GMD and P/R, and individual posts in those subreddits would be like threads in GMD and P/R.

r/DreamTheater refers to the DT subreddit

OK, just clicked the link. Oh boy. That format is awful. I mean the top post is by some clown pimping his video game work, or whatever the hell it is. No thank you.

Is that place DT authorized?


@ Noxon, I do know who you are. With all due respect.

Are you part of the "inside discussions" or are you just giving your two cents on the issue?



Does the 34k followers on FB even mean anything? I mean, maybe people follow the account so they get news updates sent to them. I'd find it hard that 34k are actually contributing.

Again, not to sound like a dick, but the boast that DT FB has 34k followers sounds almost...….Kardashian.

[lonestar]

Yeah Reddit's format has always been a massive turn-off for me.

[TAC]

I'm really disappointed it took three posts before someone ripped on Tim for the 'what is r/dreamtheater' post. You guys are losing your touch man.

 

I have heard of the term reddit, but I had no idea what r/Dreamtheater referred to.

[jingle.boy]

Most every one of the last few posts (other that Tim re:reddit) completely align with how I view and use DTF. It’s my hangout ... my Cheers, my Central Perk, my Tom’s Diner if you will (maybe all of them wrapped into one) - but with 100+ regular characters, not just 8, or 6 or 4. I can always come in here and find a conversation or discussion topic to jump in to, or continue, or start.

Unless it’s a WildRanger thread. 

[King Postwhore]

I'm really disappointed it took three posts before someone ripped on Tim for the 'what is r/dreamtheater' post. You guys are losing your touch man.

You know I wouldn't let you down. 

[Anguyen92]

I think a lot of outlets could use more forums nowadays.  I can't stand the layout for Facebook which is why I don't use Facebook. I also think Reddit has it's place.  I mean I visit Reddit for a good amount of stuff and the conversations there are relatively ok.  It doesn't beat having a forum though.  For the last 7 years, this place has been a great place for me not just learn more about Dream Theater as a band, but to get into other bands like Iron Maiden and a lot of other cool bands that people here get excited about.  Heck, I used to visit a poker forum to talk about hockey and the NHL, and I find myself reading/posting in the NHL threads here than I would in the poker forum nowadays and that's mainly on the backs of great fans that have their interesting tales and perspectives about something. 

I think that's what mainly drives this forum to be what they are.  It's not much about people posting something just to get likes and approval about a view.  It's about a great community of all ages from all over the world with different ethnicity and backgrounds having a common interest in a band called Dream Theater that so happens to have different interests about other hobbies/sports/music/etc. and able to have great conversations with different views about something without needing to demean or invalidate someone's other views for the most part. 

[TAC]

Most every one of the last few posts (other that Tim re:reddit) completely align with how I view and use DTF. It’s my hangout ... my Cheers, my Central Perk, my Tom’s Diner if you will (maybe all of them wrapped into one) - but with 100+ regular characters, not just 8, or 6 or 4. I can always come in here and find a conversation or discussion topic to jump in to, or continue, or start.

Central Perk? Tom's Diner?

I mean I've heard of Mel's Diner.

[jingle.boy]

Most every one of the last few posts (other that Tim re:reddit) completely align with how I view and use DTF. It’s my hangout ... my Cheers, my Central Perk, my Tom’s Diner if you will (maybe all of them wrapped into one) - but with 100+ regular characters, not just 8, or 6 or 4. I can always come in here and find a conversation or discussion topic to jump in to, or continue, or start.

Central Perk? Tom's Diner?

I mean I've heard of Mel's Diner.

From the two most famous sitcoms not based in Boston. But, they were both from the 90s, so I shouldn’t be surprised. Maybe a Cosby Show reference would’ve been more your thing?   

[TAC]

Yeah, I wasn't watching sitcoms in the 90's. I started watching the first couple seasons of Seinfeld, but then I started working nights.

[King Postwhore]

Dear God.  The Big Salad or Smelly Cat?