Author Topic: So, what am I supposed to DO?  (Read 2104 times)

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Offline eric42434224

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2020, 08:38:16 PM »
I suppose each individual, organization, business/business owner, etc. will make that determination using their own judgement.
That really hasn't changed, and is part of the capitalist society we all love, and the society that lets us all have rights in how we run our said organizations/businesses/etc.  What has changed is that now everyone gets recorded or posts on social media because we now all want everybody to hear what we think/feel/believe....free speech....which is also a part of this society we love.
So what is needed is not some type of committee.....what is needed is to have some discretion in expressing our views....and to ease up on the need to be heard by the world on social media, or in the grocery store....and to take ownership of what we say, and the consequences that may follow.  The ramifications of racists speech today would be no different than in the past....we just see it more because people have lost the ability to shut up.

So to answer your question Chris, the individual is the arbiter.  I can make my own calculations if you are a racist.  The school can make its own calculation.  So can the employer.  So can the friend or family member.  They all have their own calculus to decide if someone is a racist, and how to proceed with the relationship.  I really don't see how that is a problem....seems it has always been that way.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 08:44:52 PM by eric42434224 »
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Offline tofee35

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2020, 08:59:04 PM »
tofee35's post was full of Destrucity. 

Iím already regretting my avatar choice

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2020, 09:06:27 PM »
tofee35's post was full of Destrucity. 

Iím already regretting my avatar choice

 :lol
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Offline Lethean

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2020, 09:02:37 AM »
Then there are people who aren't really racist, but maybe they have some racist thoughts sometimes.  Or some biased thoughts.

Can you see, though, why this is both problematic to some (for philosophical reasons, not content reasons) and why it's also ultimately futile?   Get out of my brain.  I can think things; some of them are whimsical, some are fanciful, some are taboo, some are antisocial.   This is the ONE THING that truly makes us who we are, and makes us unique.  NONE OF YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS IF I HAVE A RACIST THOUGHT.   If it never goes past that moment, if there is never an impact to my actions, to my social relationships, to my conscious decision-making, it's of no business to anyone, LEAST OF ALL, the government.

And I would defer to my friend Adami, but (for non-racially connected reasons) I've had this discussion with my therapist on numerous occasions.   We cannot control our thoughts and feelings; we can control - to a degree - how we process them, and we can control how we ACT on them, but we're in pretty delicate territory here.   And Lethean, this isn't an attack on you in any way, because this is an INCREDIBLY common approach to this matter.   I've had this conversation tens of times.

Um, I'm not in your brain.  Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I haven't developed the ability to read people's minds.  :)

In all seriousness though - no one knows what someone else's thoughts are.  It's none of my business, or anyone else's, unless you choose to tell someone.  And for the record, if the government was able to develop the ability to read someone's thoughts, I'd be opposed to putting people in jail for them (or fining them, or posting them for public consumption).  Everyone's private thoughts are their own, and I'm not suggesting otherwise.

With that said, the topic of this thread is what we can do.  And lordxizor said this is one of the things he's doing:
"3. Be honest with myself about my racism. I don't think that any race is better than any other, but there are some small, more subtle things that I do that are racist. That vast majority of them never leave my head, but calling myself out on it is a start."

Please note that his statement didn't end with "and if you're not doing that too, I'm going to find out and you'll have to do the Cersei walk of shame!!*"

For anyone coming into this thread wanting to know what they can do - that's one idea.  And it's a good one.  Maybe we can't control every thought that comes into our heads, and that's OK.  It doesn't make us horrible people.  But we can all be better, can't we?  Maybe the thought comes into your head, OK, you couldn't help it, it's no one's business - all agreed.  But you could challenge yourself about why think that, ask yourself if it's a kind of bias and work on addressing it with yourself.  This is something I have to do with myself about certain things.  Doesn't mean I'm horrible, doesn't mean it's anyone else's business, but also doesn't mean I can't try to improve.

*TAC, this is a Game of Thrones reference.  Queen Cersei got into it with a religious organization in power and they made her walk naked through the streets while people shouted "Shame!" and threw rotten food at her.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2020, 09:13:45 AM »
 :lol At the TAC*
Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline bosk1

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2020, 09:24:22 AM »
*TAC, this is a Game of Thrones reference.  Queen Cersei got into it with a religious organization in power and they made her walk naked through the streets while people shouted "Shame!" and threw rotten food at her.

That actually sounds like something fun to do.  Maybe once we get past the virus...
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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2020, 10:02:12 AM »
For me, all I ask from you white people, and any other race for that matter, is just to leave us the fuck alone. Stop trying to come up with solutions for us, and let us figure it out. There are leaders that are capable of bringing the People (of that race) together.

There are many black celebrities that could've been helping their own community, by funding private schools, funding healthcare centers, actually going to those places and doing things to further their development and growth as a people. We all deserve that opportunity, give us that chance.

For me, if you really want to help, then it's ok to help. We need reparations, until we can be self-sufficient. Then we would like to be left alone to do us.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2020, 11:26:09 AM »
For me, all I ask from you white people, and any other race for that matter, is just to leave us the fuck alone. Stop trying to come up with solutions for us, and let us figure it out. There are leaders that are capable of bringing the People (of that race) together.

There are many black celebrities that could've been helping their own community, by funding private schools, funding healthcare centers, actually going to those places and doing things to further their development and growth as a people. We all deserve that opportunity, give us that chance.

For me, if you really want to help, then it's ok to help. We need reparations, until we can be self-sufficient. Then we would like to be left alone to do us.

But... but... I thought we were all one and equal?  How is letting one community decide - albeit a DIFFERENT community - any better?   This is just as much about the interface between communities as it is the communities themselves.  How does that get to be the jurisdiction of ONE of the communities?   That's like having a border dispute with your neighbor and saying "bro, leave me alone, stay out of it, and let ME decide how this is going to go down".    How does that work? 

Put more bluntly:  why would I (generally) give you reparations if I'm not in the discussion on how that's to be avoided in the future?  How is that not just blood money (i.e. guilt money) at that point?     

Offline eric42434224

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2020, 11:37:39 AM »
They can, and maybe need to be, separate.  Like in a lawsuit where one side is damaged by the other, the victims need to be made whole.  That agreement need not include discussion for future behavior.  That can be a separate discussion, which might benefit by not including previous settlements.  Also, Iím not sure I think it is fair to characterize it as ďbloodĒ or ďguiltĒ money..... to victims it can feel like payment to make them whole for illegal behavior.  Should we consider damages paid to victims that way?

And itís more like invading your neighborS border, being ruled wrong and having to pay a penalty, then asking for a discussion on future border disputes.... but the neighbor says no, just leave me alone and donít invade my border LOL.

If their community has been wronged, I can see how that is a position they might take.  If they have been hurt many times, why should we make them continue to engage?  Donít they have a right to, at some point, say, ďjust make me whole and leave me aloneĒ?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 12:08:48 PM by eric42434224 »
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2020, 12:07:51 PM »
I'm gonna post my response to The Walrus' PM, it relates and explains more.

Quote
"I am not for the BLM movement for the reasons that they're not doing anything really helpful now. Plus, I'm not Black and it's not really my fight within there locations. I (my people) have our fight to figure out.

" So it's very much a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" perspective from us white folk. No matter what white people try to do, you can't please most people."

It's why I feel sorry for you guys. It's like being stuck in Limbo. Maybe, its a Karmic solution. I do have sympathy because you are also Humans that are living among us that is the reality of the current times.

Quote
" Shut up and stay out of it? You're part of the silent enablers that help this type of stuff continue. Get involved? You don't know enough, you're not helping, hell I've seen people claim that white people trying to help out aren't even sincere and are only doing it to make themselves look better."

The people that say those things, are ungrateful, it boggles my mind how they can be just full of hatred.  For one, you showing up and helping shows to me you are sincere to at least get up and do something.  It's like, I what to tell the people, "You have Ally's now that are willing to go the extra mile, yet you're not seizing the moment." I said Ally's, because the trust is something whites need to know many people of color do not have for them, it's a result of the many deceptions inflicted upon us all. Although, you're not the only race to have deceptions inflicted upon people, that's what non-whites need to understand as well.

To follow up, I don't even think BLM movement even has a real leader.

To see the black struggle I recommend looking up Young Pharaoh, he is a man trying to help his Black people understand who they truly are as a people. It's great insight."[/i]




For me, all I ask from you white people, and any other race for that matter, is just to leave us the fuck alone. Stop trying to come up with solutions for us, and let us figure it out. There are leaders that are capable of bringing the People (of that race) together.

There are many black celebrities that could've been helping their own community, by funding private schools, funding healthcare centers, actually going to those places and doing things to further their development and growth as a people. We all deserve that opportunity, give us that chance.

For me, if you really want to help, then it's ok to help. We need reparations, until we can be self-sufficient. Then we would like to be left alone to do us.

But... but... I thought we were all one and equal?  How is letting one community decide - albeit a DIFFERENT community - any better?   This is just as much about the interface between communities as it is the communities themselves.  How does that get to be the jurisdiction of ONE of the communities?   That's like having a border dispute with your neighbor and saying "bro, leave me alone, stay out of it, and let ME decide how this is going to go down".    How does that work? 

Put more bluntly:  why would I (generally) give you reparations if I'm not in the discussion on how that's to be avoided in the future?  How is that not just blood money (i.e. guilt money) at that point?   

The thing is, Natives are sovereign nations. It's where I'm coming from in this. It's an entirely different fight than the black community's fight. We are all united in wanting an equal opportunity world, but, we also have fights within each race, only we as that race, can find solutions to.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 06:49:55 PM by Ben_Jamin »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »
I don't disagree with that at all.   Thanks for the clarification.  :tup

Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2020, 07:06:16 PM »
I don't disagree with that at all.   Thanks for the clarification.  :tup

No Problem. It's just something I feel we as human beings living in this current world, need to realize. No matter how much we like it or not, we can't be dwelling on the past atrocities. Yes, they happened, let us not forget either.

We here had a recent incident with the removal of a statue of Onate, in front of a Musuem, about Albuquerque. I saw no reason why not to have a statue, it's just a piece of metal glorifying anyways, and doesn't really change much at all, it get's shit on by the birds too. One thing I would've demanded though, is to leave the statue but have his foot missing. We have an Indian Pueblo Cultural Center, since the Onate statue foot is missing, there will be a statue here with Natives holding up his foot in triumph. It solves both issues of history, and keeps the statue at it's rightful place in a museum.

Basically, atrocities happened. But it doesn't mean you should treat others with disrespect if they're showing they want to make amends, or lending an open ear. How else can you learn to work together if you won't even bother to have civil discussions. That's the problem I have with most of the protesters and soap box people.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2020, 07:14:21 PM »
seems like this could potentially be relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewjaC6X9MaY

 I've followed youtuber T1J for a few years and he's made a lot of videos about racial issues.

Offline TAC

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2020, 07:44:44 PM »
:lol At the TAC*

 :lol :lol


Then there are people who aren't really racist, but maybe they have some racist thoughts sometimes.  Or some biased thoughts.

Can you see, though, why this is both problematic to some (for philosophical reasons, not content reasons) and why it's also ultimately futile?   Get out of my brain.  I can think things; some of them are whimsical, some are fanciful, some are taboo, some are antisocial.   This is the ONE THING that truly makes us who we are, and makes us unique.  NONE OF YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS IF I HAVE A RACIST THOUGHT.   If it never goes past that moment, if there is never an impact to my actions, to my social relationships, to my conscious decision-making, it's of no business to anyone, LEAST OF ALL, the government.

And I would defer to my friend Adami, but (for non-racially connected reasons) I've had this discussion with my therapist on numerous occasions.   We cannot control our thoughts and feelings; we can control - to a degree - how we process them, and we can control how we ACT on them, but we're in pretty delicate territory here.   And Lethean, this isn't an attack on you in any way, because this is an INCREDIBLY common approach to this matter.   I've had this conversation tens of times.

Um, I'm not in your brain.  Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I haven't developed the ability to read people's minds.  :)

In all seriousness though - no one knows what someone else's thoughts are.  It's none of my business, or anyone else's, unless you choose to tell someone.  And for the record, if the government was able to develop the ability to read someone's thoughts, I'd be opposed to putting people in jail for them (or fining them, or posting them for public consumption).  Everyone's private thoughts are their own, and I'm not suggesting otherwise.

With that said, the topic of this thread is what we can do.  And lordxizor said this is one of the things he's doing:
"3. Be honest with myself about my racism. I don't think that any race is better than any other, but there are some small, more subtle things that I do that are racist. That vast majority of them never leave my head, but calling myself out on it is a start."

Please note that his statement didn't end with "and if you're not doing that too, I'm going to find out and you'll have to do the Cersei walk of shame!!*"

For anyone coming into this thread wanting to know what they can do - that's one idea.  And it's a good one.  Maybe we can't control every thought that comes into our heads, and that's OK.  It doesn't make us horrible people.  But we can all be better, can't we?  Maybe the thought comes into your head, OK, you couldn't help it, it's no one's business - all agreed.  But you could challenge yourself about why think that, ask yourself if it's a kind of bias and work on addressing it with yourself.  This is something I have to do with myself about certain things.  Doesn't mean I'm horrible, doesn't mean it's anyone else's business, but also doesn't mean I can't try to improve.



So I was thinking about this. I was talking to my 17 y/o about this the other day. I was transferred at work a few months ago, but before that I had spent 3 years in the city (Boston, that is). It was a predominantly black neighborhood.

We were talking about racism and stereotypes. I told him how I would feel if I saw a group of black kids come in the store. What if I thought the following? Would they try and steal? Should I watch them? Are the up to no good?
I'm 51, and I'm not sure how the conditioning happens. Is it TV stereotypes? Is it experience?

I told him it's one thing if a thought enters your head. But I also told him that if I indeed think a thought like that, that I always thought of HIM being one of those kids. They're just kids and deserve respect, and to be treated how their parents would hope they'd be treated.

I'm one of those people that doesn't consider myself racist, but I think more to the point, I am someone that tries to not act racist.
I think people have a natural tendency to break things down to the lowest common denominator. I think we may see a person and the first thing we process is "that guy is black (or white)".

Everyone has fears, anxieties, etc... No matter what goes into the creation of your thoughts, what's most important is how you actually treat others.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2020, 10:11:03 PM »
:lol At the TAC*

 :lol :lol


Then there are people who aren't really racist, but maybe they have some racist thoughts sometimes.  Or some biased thoughts.

Can you see, though, why this is both problematic to some (for philosophical reasons, not content reasons) and why it's also ultimately futile?   Get out of my brain.  I can think things; some of them are whimsical, some are fanciful, some are taboo, some are antisocial.   This is the ONE THING that truly makes us who we are, and makes us unique.  NONE OF YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS IF I HAVE A RACIST THOUGHT.   If it never goes past that moment, if there is never an impact to my actions, to my social relationships, to my conscious decision-making, it's of no business to anyone, LEAST OF ALL, the government.

And I would defer to my friend Adami, but (for non-racially connected reasons) I've had this discussion with my therapist on numerous occasions.   We cannot control our thoughts and feelings; we can control - to a degree - how we process them, and we can control how we ACT on them, but we're in pretty delicate territory here.   And Lethean, this isn't an attack on you in any way, because this is an INCREDIBLY common approach to this matter.   I've had this conversation tens of times.

Um, I'm not in your brain.  Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I haven't developed the ability to read people's minds.  :)

In all seriousness though - no one knows what someone else's thoughts are.  It's none of my business, or anyone else's, unless you choose to tell someone.  And for the record, if the government was able to develop the ability to read someone's thoughts, I'd be opposed to putting people in jail for them (or fining them, or posting them for public consumption).  Everyone's private thoughts are their own, and I'm not suggesting otherwise.

With that said, the topic of this thread is what we can do.  And lordxizor said this is one of the things he's doing:
"3. Be honest with myself about my racism. I don't think that any race is better than any other, but there are some small, more subtle things that I do that are racist. That vast majority of them never leave my head, but calling myself out on it is a start."

Please note that his statement didn't end with "and if you're not doing that too, I'm going to find out and you'll have to do the Cersei walk of shame!!*"

For anyone coming into this thread wanting to know what they can do - that's one idea.  And it's a good one.  Maybe we can't control every thought that comes into our heads, and that's OK.  It doesn't make us horrible people.  But we can all be better, can't we?  Maybe the thought comes into your head, OK, you couldn't help it, it's no one's business - all agreed.  But you could challenge yourself about why think that, ask yourself if it's a kind of bias and work on addressing it with yourself.  This is something I have to do with myself about certain things.  Doesn't mean I'm horrible, doesn't mean it's anyone else's business, but also doesn't mean I can't try to improve.



So I was thinking about this. I was talking to my 17 y/o about this the other day. I was transferred at work a few months ago, but before that I had spent 3 years in the city (Boston, that is). It was a predominantly black neighborhood.

We were talking about racism and stereotypes. I told him how I would feel if I saw a group of black kids come in the store. What if I thought the following? Would they try and steal? Should I watch them? Are the up to no good?
I'm 51, and I'm not sure how the conditioning happens. Is it TV stereotypes? Is it experience?

I told him it's one thing if a thought enters your head. But I also told him that if I indeed think a thought like that, that I always thought of HIM being one of those kids. They're just kids and deserve respect, and to be treated how their parents would hope they'd be treated.

I'm one of those people that doesn't consider myself racist, but I think more to the point, I am someone that tries to not act racist.
I think people have a natural tendency to break things down to the lowest common denominator. I think we may see a person and the first thing we process is "that guy is black (or white)".

Everyone has fears, anxieties, etc... No matter what goes into the creation of your thoughts, what's most important is how you actually treat others.

You should be aware if any group of teens come into the store. They're more likely to cause shit, just because they're teens and naturally like to rebel against authority, pushing the limits.

It doesn't help either how the Thug/Party lifetsyle is proudly pushed in Black media, in music and film. It's all you see in a lot of films in the late 90's as well.
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Offline Lethean

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2020, 11:43:31 PM »
TAC, I think that's a great approach.

Offline Stadler

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2020, 09:03:08 AM »
I have to give more thought as to how I present this idea more fully, but increasing I keep coming back to the idea that we're really talking about HUMAN feelings, not "black" or "white" feelings (if there even is such a thing).   I hear "tribalism" more and more attributed to the problems we're seeing, but I also see more and more "tribalism" as a RESPONSE to the problems we're seeing.  Sure, one side may have (and I only say "may" because it does depend on what we're talking about) taken the short end of that stick more often than not, but in terms of moving forward, in terms of finding understanding, might it not help to reduce these to HUMAN feelings instead of continually trying to cast things on a racial basis? 

Offline kaos2900

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2020, 10:21:59 AM »
The answer to the original question is simple. Don't be a dick. Treat people how you want to be treated. Judge people by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin. I say that as a middle class white man and this is how I'm raising my daughters.

Offline Lethean

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2020, 10:27:10 AM »
In response to Stadler:

No, I don't think so.  Not on a systemic level.  On an individual level - sure.  We should treat everyone we encounter well regardless of their race.  But saying let's just do that and that's all that's needed - no.  Then those getting the short end of the stick continue to do so and nothing changes while we all pretend we don't see color.  I think it's a great goal - if we could eventually get there then we'll be in a great place.  But we're not there now.

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2020, 12:53:31 PM »
In response to Stadler:

No, I don't think so.  Not on a systemic level.  On an individual level - sure.  We should treat everyone we encounter well regardless of their race.  But saying let's just do that and that's all that's needed - no.  Then those getting the short end of the stick continue to do so and nothing changes while we all pretend we don't see color.  I think it's a great goal - if we could eventually get there then we'll be in a great place.  But we're not there now.

If you do see it as Human Feelings, you'll be likely to want to help your fellow human, due to your own connection to those Human Feelings they are suffering from. They are a Human that has been abused, and has lost trust in fellow Humans because of the abuse Humans, that happened to be of a certain skin complexity, inflicted upon them.

It's an entire mindset that needs to be changed. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2020, 01:33:39 PM »
I think it goes even deeper than that.  I just think at some level, we're talking past each other.  I think there are a lot of people talking a good game on "empathy", but who aren't putting their money where their mouths are.   I think the feelings and reactions we're talking about are common, and no real solution can happen without compromise and understanding, and fundamental to that is recognizing that which is common and that which is unique.   I'm not naive to the details here, but at a BASIC HUMAN LEVEL, tribalism is not unique to whites or blacks.  In fact, you can see examples in both, and for similar reasons.  Until we can acknowledge that, I think this is a shouting match that has no real end. 

Offline eric42434224

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2020, 01:59:13 PM »
No, we donít all need to acknowledge that we all exhibit tribalism to make real change in our society.  We might need it to achieve a utopia, but perfect is the enemy of good.  We can all make personal incremental change in ourselves, and work on larger systemic changes In groups.  Lots of small changes can make big changes.  To hinge needed change on everyone doing or thinking certain things just paralyzes us.  We arenít perfect, so we need to stop looking for the perfect solution. 
The shouting match likely never ends....but we can shout a little quieter, or shout less and talk more.
Not perfect....but better.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 03:12:18 PM by eric42434224 »
Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline Lethean

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2020, 04:25:23 PM »
I agree with Eric here.

Offline Orbert

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2020, 07:55:10 PM »
I've had this and many similar conversations with my kids.  What it comes down to is "change takes time".  I know, we've had over 100 years to deal with this shit, over 200 if you want to go all the way back.  I point out how things were when I was growing up, and yeah things still suck now, but believe it or not, it's better now than it was in the 70's.  And the 70's were a lot better than it was in the 50's.  The farther back you go, the worse things were.  Therefore, we are in fact making progress.  Things are getting better.  Not fast at all, certainly not fast enough for a lot of people, but we are making progress.  Will it take another 100 years to "fix things"?  Hell, I don't know.  I won't be around then, so I don't know how much I care.

Short of a total revolution, a true coup d'etat, change takes time.  A little bit at a time.  That's apparently all we can do.  But we are doing it.

Offline Northern Lion

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Re: So, what am I supposed to DO?
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2020, 08:32:27 PM »
First off, I want to say that I feel largely the same way as Orbert does.  I feel rather helpless on this issue.  Being a white man, I almost feel like I shouldn't step in because I'm not qualified, if that makes sense.

However, from a liberty standpoint I do believe there needs to be police reform.  And if done right, that wouldn't just help people of color, but it would be good for everyone.  There was a bill that was just passed by the House here in the US, that I think would be a really good step forward.  There may be parts of the bill that I wouldn't like if I examined it closely, but the jist is: no more arming the police with military equipment, no more "no knock" warrants (this is a big one for me) and an end to "qualified immunity".  All of these, in my view help protect the rights of the individual against the state.

So, what I plan to do is write a respectful letter to the Senators in my state to take a hard look at the bill from a liberty standpoint instead of a partisan one in hopes they may break party lines and work to convince the senate to put it up for a vote.  It's a long shot but it's something I can do.

But, I believe more reforms are needed.

Such as getting rid of the awful "civil asset forfeiture", which will also help marginalized communities (as well as everyone else)

If an officer uses lethal force, they should be put on administrative leave until a complete investigation is done to make sure it was self defense/defense of others in immediate danger.  If it is found that the officer acted in error, then they should be fired immediately and tried, if it is found that the officer acted correctly then they will be allowed to continue with their job as if nothing happened.

Officers need to be trained to respect their communities, individuals they come in contact with and private property.  Even if they need to do a search and seizure.

All searches and seizures of ANY kind must require a warrant that states specifically where and what is to be searched and officers can't deviate from that.

Officers NEED to receive a lot more training on constitutional law and the rights of individuals and their property.

Police should ONLY perform arrests if crimes are committed against life and property.  Virtually everything else should be handled by community resources and/or family.

Police unions should be abolished.

As part of their job, police should be required to do a certain number of hours in community service every month so the can be more familiar and thoughtful towards the communities they serve.

These changes would not only greatly benefit marginalized communities, but everyone else as well.  But I also want to add, that I have friends who are police officers and a lot of this they don't agree with me on.  And I support police when they are doing their jobs properly.  Which most of them do most of the time.

I'm sorry for the long first post here on P/R, but this is something I've thought a lot about for a long time.  But I'm also OK if I'm wrong and welcome the thoughts and feedback of anyone else.



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