Cyril's Lead-Filled Roulette! (Post-Roulette)

[Crow]

tomorrow my dudette

[The Walrus]

tomorrow my dudette

Did you just assume my gender

[Crow]

those jokes were never funny and i will seriously dock you points (or, well, add an extra bullet) if you make them again 

[The Walrus]

those jokes were never funny and i will seriously dock you points (or, well, add an extra bullet) if you make them again 

Why not both? I triple dog dare you 

[Crow]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish

[The Walrus]

Your first mistake is assuming I'm trying to accomplish anything 

[Crow]

okay but for serious transphobic jokes aren't cool okay?

[The Walrus]

I agree but don't see how that is transphobic whatsoever. Phobic implies some kind of fear or trepidation and there's certainly nothing implying any form of bigotry there. It's just a longstanding Internet meme joke my guy

Yo just put 5 bullets in the chamber lmao

[Buddyhunter1]

"did you just assume my gender" is the go-to sentence to make fun of transgender people so using it reflects poorly on you even if you're not being serious.

[The Walrus]

"did you just assume my gender" is the go-to sentence to make fun of transgender people so using it reflects poorly on you even if you're not being serious.

Seriously? I think it's obvious given the context there was no mockery of trans people there. Yet nobody's upset Cyril implied I'm a female despite being 100% male. Which was the entire point of my comment. Omfg people. 

[Crow]

yeah but you can still not use it! it costs you absolutely nothing! 

[The Walrus]

I used that in a completely innocuous context and refuse to feel bad about it 'cause people make the choice to get upset by a dumb joke that has zero malicious intent or content. Dock those points I guess

[Buddyhunter1]

No need to be so defensive, man. We're not coming at your throat for using it, we're just letting you know it's pretty much never a good thing to say in that context because of the connotations associated with it. Same thing as using "gay" as a substitute for "stupid" or "lame", like yeah, we know that's what you meant, but it still perpetuates the usage of that word in a derogatory manner and you should be able to see how that can be harmful even if you didn't mean any harm by it.

[ariich]

I'm not going to choose sides and I agree that the intent was clearly innocuous, but the joke does come with trans-phobic connotations because of how it has been used. So assuming you didn't know that then I don't think you have anything to feel bad about, but it is genuinely worth being aware of those connotations and the fact that it could unintentionally cause offence. 

[ariich]

No need to be so defensive, man. We're not coming at your throat for using it, we're just letting you know it's pretty much never a good thing to say in that context because of the connotations associated with it. Same thing as using "gay" as a substitute for "stupid" or "lame", like yeah, we know that's what you meant, but it still perpetuates the usage of that word in a derogatory manner and you should be able to see how that can be harmful even if you didn't mean any harm by it.

Yeah, this too.

[Buddyhunter1]

Last thing I'll say here is making you "feel bad about it" isn't the point. You don't need to feel bad about it - if you make a mistake in the past you can make the choice to move on from it and not repeat it going forward. Beating yourself up for it accomplishes nothing and that's not what we're trying to get you to do.

[The Walrus]

Man, I would think people would have understood the context of a joke given that Cyril himself called me a female in the first place. I think context is absolutely critical. I still see nothing wrong with the way I used that. It's not like we were having a discussion on trans issues and then I jumped in like the Kool-Aid Man to joke about marginalized people  I have a lot of strong feelings on this but there's a reason I don't post in P/R anymore. Just gonna leave it there. I'm quite liberal, believe it or not, but I don't enjoy or approve of policing comedy at all, so I'll leave it at that

EDIT: For the record I'm fully aware of these issues. I'll apologize to anyone who got offended, but I won't apologize for making the joke

[Crow]

there is no context in which it's okay to use, is the point, given the history of its usage
same with the attack helicopter joke

[The Walrus]

there is no context in which it's okay to use, is the point, given the history of its usage
same with the attack helicopter joke

I disagree. The context in which I used it was perfectly acceptable given the setup. This is a philosophy on comedy/humor I have that you aren't going to change, my man. So, sorry you got offended by it, brudda. I will refuse from making Those Jokes again in this thread.

[Evermind]

What's that with the attack helicopter joke?

1) I've never heard this joke
2) I design helicopters

I'm therefore interested, you can PM me if you don't want to go about it in the thread.

[Crow]

you seem to be missing the point and i am actually not going to drop it

[Evermind]

you seem to be missing the point and i am actually not going to drop it

Absolutely, I don't see how this joke works at all, which is why I'm curious what's that got to do with helicopters, but whatever

I'm not a native English speaker in case you somehow forgot

edit: if you weren't referring to me, then I'm still curious. I don't want to accidentally say something stupid/offensive whenever I'm on a business trip or interacting with my foreign friends online

[The Walrus]

you seem to be missing the point and i am actually not going to drop it

I get the point. I disagree with it, if that wasn't clear. We have fundamentally different views on this and that's okay. Neither of us is better than the other.

EDIT: Your point was that it's "never" okay to make that joke. I fundamentally disagree with that because of my views on comedy and humor and comedy is certainly not a black and white issue therefore the idea that it's "never" acceptable, ever, does not sit well with me. But I compromised and apologized and said I wouldn't make those jokes again in this thread. Not sure what you want from me short of ideological acquiescence.

[Crow]

edit: if you weren't referring to me, then I'm still curious. I don't want to accidentally say something stupid/offensive whenever I'm on a business trip or interacting with my foreign friends online

i'm not referring to you here but the joke is people saying stupid stuff like "i identify as an attack helicopter" to mock trans folx

@walrus comedy that punches down at marginalized groups is bad 100% of the time and there is no counter-argument to be made here. i don't even care if you "disagree" because you're still saying you will continue to make jokes that are inherently bad

[The Walrus]

edit: if you weren't referring to me, then I'm still curious. I don't want to accidentally say something stupid/offensive whenever I'm on a business trip or interacting with my foreign friends online

i'm not referring to you here but the joke is people saying stupid stuff like "i identify as an attack helicopter" to mock trans folx

Except nobody said something "to mock trans folx". That implies there is intent. There was no intent in what I said and I explained why I said it.

comedy that punches down at marginalized groups is bad 100% of the time and there is no counter-argument to be made here. i don't even care if you "disagree" because you're still saying you will continue to make jokes that are inherently bad

Yeah, again, the joke had zero implications towards trans people and wasn't punching down at anyone. Ease up. You're so comfortable saying something is "never" acceptable and "there is no counter-argument to be made" and yet here I am giving it to you because that's what I feel. Lighten up, or be more tolerant of different opinions.

[Crow]

again; there is no way to make that joke without it being inherently transphobic

[The Walrus]

again; there is no way to make that joke without it being inherently transphobic

Something being phobic implies a level of intolerance or negative emotions with them. Nothing I said implies I have anything against trans people at all. It was not a transphobic joke.

[Crow]

i don't care about your intent. the joke itself is transphobic. your intent doesn't matter here.

[The Walrus]

i don't care about your intent. the joke itself is transphobic. your intent doesn't matter here.

What world do you live in where intent doesn't matter? Just because you said it doesn't? What I intended to communicate doesn't matter? If that doesn't matter, why should your feelings matter to me?

[Crow]

alright

The Walrus is eliminated because I'm not tolerant of transphobia. bye lol

[The Walrus]

alright

The Walrus is eliminated because I'm not tolerant of transphobia. bye lol

Oh, you are acting like a child. I am not transphobic and refuse to be called that. Very little offends me - that actually does offend me.

Fine, bye.

[Crow]

removing the "grow up" from your post doesn't mean the ad hominem didn't happen but w/e seeya 
kick me out of your roulette while you're at it, i don't even care anymore

[The Walrus]

removing the "grow up" from your post doesn't mean the ad hominem didn't happen but w/e seeya 
kick me out of your roulette while you're at it, i don't even care anymore

You can't even talk about this like a mature adult. You just called me transphobic, refused to hear a different opinion, and then booted me from the game. I'll say it again: grow up.

[Evermind]

i'm not referring to you here but the joke is people saying stupid stuff like "i identify as an attack helicopter" to mock trans folx

That kinda stretches the definition of a joke in my opinion

I also think you both could like do a reasonable and interesting discussion because I think you both have valid points but as I'm not even in this roulette, I honestly don't care to engage into that, but I can do a fun fact for you guys

Fun fact related to helicopters: an attack helicopter (or as a proper term in Russia would be, a military helicopter) is actually way, way less safe than a civil one, especially in case of emergency overload, because the standards for designing and construction and testing are way stricter for the civil helicopters than the military ones here.

[The Walrus]

Well, he doesn't want to hear my points, 'cause he just blocked off any possibility for a discussion and then kicked me out of his game.