Might get hate for this, but I can see why they chose to let Portnoy go

[KevShmev]

I’m not really sure how you think Neal Morse solo has “mushroomed” into the Neal Morse Band.  They’re essentially doing the same thing they’ve always done. Have they accelerated in the number of albums they put out? Are the tours longer?  It may be a little more collaborative than Neal’s solo albums but I don’t think Mike’s involvement has changed an awful lot.  There’s no reason to think his involvement could not have continued if he stayed in Dream Theater.

The only time that Mike toured with Neal while he was still in DT was the Testimony 1 tour in 2003. After that, Neal only played a couple of US gigs with a band (without Mike and with an all-new band you never saw again). It was only in 2011 for the Testimony 2 tour, after Mike had left DT, that Neal got to do a US solo tour and Mike has been part of his live band ever since.

Thank you.  I cannot remember the exact reasons why Neal decided to form the Neal Morse Band, but I have to think that Portnoy being far more available when it came to touring was a big factor.   

As I understand it, previously NM was calling all the shots with MP and the others serving as his backing band. That changed with The Grand Experiment, where MP and the others all got much more involved in the songwriting and everything else, and it took more of a similar form to what TA is

Based on recent comments by both Neal and Portnoy, I think that is correct.  On Neal's solo albums, he writes them all by himself, and of course the others are free to make suggestions and whatnot, but he ultimately calls the shots.  With NMB, it is a more collaborative writing effort, with Neal still having the most fingerprints on the final draft of course.  Based on the making of Similitude, I get the impression that Neal is still kind of charge when it comes to NMB (see: band leader), but being the leader of a band is different than being a solo artist and having 100% say-so in how things go. 

[tofee35]

I'd love to hear MP's take on the drums for the MM-penned songs. But, if MP had stayed, the albums of the last 10 years would have sounded much different than what we got. So, that is just a fantasy. Whenever I play the MM-era songs on drums, I find myself playing them in Portnoy's style, because MM's parts are so damn hard to replicate.

-Tof

[bosk1]

I cannot remember the exact reasons why Neal decided to form the Neal Morse Band, but I have to think that Portnoy being far more available when it came to touring was a big factor.   

I remember Neal saying about Momentum that he wanted to have some musicians who were local that he could collaborate with on a regular basis.  Remember, for the albums leading up to that, he basically had a European backing band, which had become sort of a revolving door, and I think he was just frustrated that he didn't have local people he could collaborate with.  So he auditioned and brought in Bill and Eric.  I think that was on a bonus documentary for Momentum, but I don't remember 100%.  And I think that the chemistry was just good, so when it came time to write the next album, he was getting a lot more input and collaboration from everyone, which was a different dynamic, hence the variation on the band name.  That's my recollection and what I drew from it, anyway.

[DTA]

I cannot remember the exact reasons why Neal decided to form the Neal Morse Band, but I have to think that Portnoy being far more available when it came to touring was a big factor.   

I remember Neal saying about Momentum that he wanted to have some musicians who were local that he could collaborate with on a regular basis.  Remember, for the albums leading up to that, he basically had a European backing band, which had become sort of a revolving door, and I think he was just frustrated that he didn't have local people he could collaborate with.  So he auditioned and brought in Bill and Eric.  I think that was on a bonus documentary for Momentum, but I don't remember 100%.  And I think that the chemistry was just good, so when it came time to write the next album, he was getting a lot more input and collaboration from everyone, which was a different dynamic, hence the variation on the band name.  That's my recollection and what I drew from it, anyway.

Wasn't there another guitarist that was actually chosen? I watched that doc a long time ago and seem to recall a Brazilian guy getting the gig but obviously that didn't happen.

[bosk1]

Even if he had gotten the Ax7 gig, I’d think being a part owner in DT would have been more lucrative than being a permanent employee of Ax7.

I wouldn't be so sure.  It would depend on how any agreement with A7X might be structured.  There are a lot of variables.  A7X as an entity does make more money, given their album sales and the touring they are able to do.  How much of that Mike would have seen would just have depended on what they would have agreed to.  One big variable is writing credit.  I haven't followed them at all since Nightmare to know how they have handled writing credit, but if Mike could have gotten a share of writing credit on songs, that could potentially have been VERY lucrative.  Keep in mind that Mike is VERY well acquainted with the business side of the industry.  Although I am sure he would have made some concessions, I doubt he would have been content to just take a base salary and nothing more.  He would have known what to ask for and how hard to push for certain other perks.  I think that's why the A7X guys subsequently said that one of the factors in deciding early on that Mike was only going to be temporary was that he would have come with a price tag.

[KevShmev]

I cannot remember the exact reasons why Neal decided to form the Neal Morse Band, but I have to think that Portnoy being far more available when it came to touring was a big factor.   

I remember Neal saying about Momentum that he wanted to have some musicians who were local that he could collaborate with on a regular basis.  Remember, for the albums leading up to that, he basically had a European backing band, which had become sort of a revolving door, and I think he was just frustrated that he didn't have local people he could collaborate with.  So he auditioned and brought in Bill and Eric.  I think that was on a bonus documentary for Momentum, but I don't remember 100%.  And I think that the chemistry was just good, so when it came time to write the next album, he was getting a lot more input and collaboration from everyone, which was a different dynamic, hence the variation on the band name.  That's my recollection and what I drew from it, anyway.

Wasn't there another guitarist that was actually chosen? I watched that doc a long time ago and seem to recall a Brazilian guy getting the gig but obviously that didn't happen.

I can't think of his name, but yes.  He was the main guitar player on the Momentum tour (or at least at the show that was recorded and released), while Eric was merely the secondary guitar player and another keyboard player, which is crazy to think about now given how great and valuable he has been to the NMB.

[DTA]

I cannot remember the exact reasons why Neal decided to form the Neal Morse Band, but I have to think that Portnoy being far more available when it came to touring was a big factor.   

I remember Neal saying about Momentum that he wanted to have some musicians who were local that he could collaborate with on a regular basis.  Remember, for the albums leading up to that, he basically had a European backing band, which had become sort of a revolving door, and I think he was just frustrated that he didn't have local people he could collaborate with.  So he auditioned and brought in Bill and Eric.  I think that was on a bonus documentary for Momentum, but I don't remember 100%.  And I think that the chemistry was just good, so when it came time to write the next album, he was getting a lot more input and collaboration from everyone, which was a different dynamic, hence the variation on the band name.  That's my recollection and what I drew from it, anyway.

Wasn't there another guitarist that was actually chosen? I watched that doc a long time ago and seem to recall a Brazilian guy getting the gig but obviously that didn't happen.

I can't think of his name, but yes.  He was the main guitar player on the Momentum tour (or at least at the show that was recorded and released), while Eric was merely the secondary guitar player and another keyboard player, which is crazy to think about now given how great and valuable he has been to the NMB.

Any word on why he left Neal's band? And yeah, making Eric a secondary guy is a hell of an oversight. He's irreplaceable in Neal's music at this point imo

[KevShmev]

Any word on why he left Neal's band? And yeah, making Eric a secondary guy is a hell of an oversight. He's irreplaceable in Neal's music at this point imo

Marc (The Letter M) probably remembers this better than I do if he sees this thread, but I think he had some issue with his visa and staying in the country.  I could be misremembering, but I think that was the situation.

I am not sure I would call it an oversight though, re: Eric.   He probably came in and played guitar, keys and drums, making Neal think, "hey, this guy is great and can play a little bit of everything, so he can be another jack of all trades-type guy in the band" (Neal being the original jack of all trades guy in the band).

[gzarruk]

Adson Sodre was selected as the main guitar player for the Momentum tour (and he actually recorded a couple solos on World Without End for the album). IIRC, he had visa issues, since he's brazilian. Eric was only brought in as the "extra" guy doing a bit of everything but not really a "main" role at all. I guess Adson having visa issues was the best thing that could happen for Eric

They had Adson as a guest on two songs when they went to Brazil in 2017 (https://youtu.be/hc1Bz22f69Y)

[Mladen]

I remember watching the live Momentum DVD for years and thinking Adson was just tremendous. I didn't even notice Eric at the time. But I don't think there would have been space for both of them in The Neal Morse Band.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, he was really good, but Eric brings the added bonus of being a good singer.

[LCArenas]

I'm not gonna dwell on the "He fucking left the band!" discussion that's already been settled, so about the other thing...

MP might have been a bit more metal-oriented at the time he left, seeing how he was playing with Avenged Sevenfold and went to Adrenaline Mob right after, but I don't think that's something that spanned the entirety of the 2000s era as the OP might have said. MP, like many of us, is a guy that becomes really focused and obsessive with a certain genre of music at one time and then goes to focus on another genre.  In his recent Vinyl room videos he said he was actually listening to a lot of Radiohead when they went in the studio to make SDOIT, and that's in part where the experimental parts of that album come from. The Glass Prison was inspired by him and Petrucci going to see Pantera and I think it was JP who was the one inspired by them to write the structure of that song. For Systematic Chaos They surely must have been influenced by Megadeth, who they toured with in the Octavarium tour...

All in all, they're all huge metal fans, and while sure MP was influential and had an immense say in the musical direction they went in his later DT years I can't say that he was the sole responsible for the more "Heavy" sound of the band towards the end of the 2000s.

[TAC]

I agree with that LC.

JP is as much of, if not more metal than MP. It's unfair to that MP gets the rap on that.

[pg1067]

I agree with that LC.

JP is as much of, if not more metal than MP. It's unfair to that MP gets the rap on that.

MP said at one point (and I don't know if this was before or after he left the band) something to the effect that, "while I might be the most 'metal' guy in the band I'm also the most 'prog' guy."  The explanation that went along with that was that, of all the members of the band, he went the furthest down the "prog" spectrum in terms of stuff he liked.  I don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

At one point long before MP left, I came to the conclusion that some of the more straight-up metal songs by DT that weren't my favorite were more reflective of the "MP-side" of the band and that most of my favorite songs were more attributable to the "JP-side."  Over time -- and especially after MP left the band -- I came to realize I was quite mistaken about that..

[MoraWintersoul]

The reason why the in all the different lineups the guys worked so well together is that they all shared about 50% of the same brain, music-wise. They had enough differences to modify each other's work and steer each other in different directions, but it's not very easy to determine who did what unless one of them is directly telling you. For instance, spoken word and movie samples are all over early DT music, and then they're all over Kevin's later music and not *so* much in latter DT, so someone might conclude that was all Kevin - but then you get into MP's stories of how they made those albums, and it turns out he was equally into putting samples in.

And out of everyone who shared the same brain in this band, JP and MP definitely always had and still have the most in common. So it's just very hard to point at one of them. I think it's fairly safe to say MP was more about contemporary references (he's the one who brought in Muse into the inspo corner), and JP was more about the classic references, but there's a chance I'm wrong about that too.

[Peter Mc]

I agree with that LC.

JP is as much of, if not more metal than MP. It's unfair to that MP gets the rap on that.

MP said at one point (and I don't know if this was before or after he left the band) something to the effect that, "while I might be the most 'metal' guy in the band I'm also the most 'prog' guy."  The explanation that went along with that was that, of all the members of the band, he went the furthest down the "prog" spectrum in terms of stuff he liked.  I don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think that’s probably fair although Jordan Rudess seems a fairly big prog guy as well.  I get the impression JP is somewhere in the middle where he is not into super extreme prog music or super extreme metal music.  Much like Dream Theater themselves are prog but not too far out there and metal but not too heavy and extreme.  You could argue in some ways that DT is more a reflection of JP than anyone else.  His solo album and LTE albums are pretty much in the same vein.  You can’t see him doing an album like Transatlantic the way Mike has done.

I think where Mike gets some of the blame for albums that anyone may not like, is that, from seeing interviews in the past, you got the impression that he had a level of control of the direction and trajectory of the band.  Whilst he was not necessarily the primary writer of the music, you get the impression he steered the music where he wanted the band to go, maybe not early on but probably from Scenes onwards.  I don’t mean he was some dictator, just that they trusted him to map out musically where the band should go.  For example, with Train Of Thought, I’d lay money on that being Mike’s idea to make a full on metal album and then his idea to follow it up with a more prog album in Octavarium with all the nuggets that were included.  Systematic Chaos was then a very modern sounding metal album to appeal to the Roadrunner generation with Mike’s influences all over it.  It was all working as well as the bands fanbase grew and grew in that time.  At the point he left, they were arguably the biggest they’ve ever been.

It’s absolutely correct to say Petrucci is a metal guy and is the bands main composer and lyricist so not everything can be placed at Mike’s door.  I think it’s also correct to say however that the band, to some degree, followed Mike’s lead in the type of albums they made at that time.  Therefore, if you have a problem with any of the post SFAM albums (which I personally don’t) I think you have to point the finger at both JP and MP.

[bosk1]

I think that’s probably fair although Jordan Rudess seems a fairly big prog guy as well.  I get the impression JP is somewhere in the middle where he is not into super extreme prog music or super extreme metal music.

I'm not that in tune with the prog aspect of his tastes in great detail.  But, for example, I know he is really into Crimson.  When they toured with Crimson ProjeKCt, he was so geeked out about touring with them.

[Volante99]

I think that’s probably fair although Jordan Rudess seems a fairly big prog guy as well.  I get the impression JP is somewhere in the middle where he is not into super extreme prog music or super extreme metal music.

I'm not that in tune with the prog aspect of his tastes in great detail.  But, for example, I know he is really into Crimson.  When they toured with Crimson ProjeKCt, he was so geeked out about touring with them.

He’s also a huge Emerson Lake & Palmer fan. From what I remember he often cites Tarkus as his favorite album.

[Orbert]

Yeah, Jordan's 2007 album The Road Home is chock full of classic prog.  Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP, even Gentle Giant.  Jordan's a proghead.

[gzarruk]

I think that’s probably fair although Jordan Rudess seems a fairly big prog guy as well.  I get the impression JP is somewhere in the middle where he is not into super extreme prog music or super extreme metal music.

I'm not that in tune with the prog aspect of his tastes in great detail.  But, for example, I know he is really into Crimson.  When they toured with Crimson ProjeKCt, he was so geeked out about touring with them.

He’s also a huge Emerson Lake & Palmer fan. From what I remember he often cites Tarkus as his favorite album.

I think Bosk was talking about JP.

[Orbert]

Oops.

[Volante99]

Ditto. Oops.

Well, for Petrucci we know he's deep into the classics of Rush, Marillion, Yes, Pink Floyd.
As a guitarist I can tell you he's certainly borrowed a thing or two from Al Di Meola and Return to Forever over the years.

From what I can tell is that he gravitates more towards the guitar-heavy prog side- for the same reason he digs Metallica, Maiden, Ozzy etc

[brents319]

I sent this text to a friend earlier....

"I prefer Mangini in DT but, I will take any Portnoy with Petrucci when I can get it."

Personally, I am not too interested in other Portnoy projects since he left/they didn't let him change his mind.  Regardless of the technicalities, it is all on Portnoy.

Further thoughts on this topic:
Honestly, I feel like Mangini is a better fit from a super mega nice family men rockin' nerd prospective.  And, let's be real, that is what they are.  It is one of my favorite things about them.  Portnoy had more of metal head 'personality' than all other guys.  I love them both, seriously, but given the choice I am a Mangini man.

And, here's the real kicker for me.  Portnoy wanted them to take a break.  F)(#*)@(*$#)(*$ that noise.  We barely get any material as it is and he wanted to take a break.  When I heard that I literally said aloud, "oh, Hell no, see ya."  I am happy he wanted to take his ass to the side projects since he wanted to cut into my joy of getting new DT material.

 

[Herrick]

I, for one, think the "metal vs prog in DT" debate is really not where it's at. It's in the little things: MP started to have his way on things that were not possibly the best things for the band in my opinion. For example, his "lead vocals" that never, ever worked for me. Not in the slightest. That felt more of a projection of his personality, his desire to be heard as opposed to "the balls in DT music in contrast to James' cleaner voice" argument he always put out. James can run circles around MP vocally in every sense of the word because he *is* a vocalist a MP is not. For example, I really dig the JLB arrangement they did for the heavy section in ANTR they played on the last tour. JLB is clearly not in his best right now, but he did a pretty great job and I'll take that every time over MP's half-assed tough guy/growly vocals. I mean no disrespect, but that's the only word that comes to mind. So, when the moment came MP wanted to stop DT for an indefinite hiatus and he got a big and round "no" for an answer, he was shocked. For the first time, he lost control of the band and that must not have been something easy to process and deal for him.

Both parties really benefited from the separation, but I cannot help but feel that MP cannot fill that void left by DT and with fair reason. He loves patting himself in the back and saying like "I'm in 15 bands right now and I'm releasing 10 albums this year, so life is good in MP land!", which is really something but at the same time feels like a constant "see? I'm good without DT!" when that shadow will always linger and is clearly there.

I mostly agree with this.

Portnoy has his moments as a singer given his limits as a vocalist (there are songs by NMB and Flying Colors both where he sings some lead that I like), but the problem in his DT days, like you said, is that he often tried to do too much because he wanted to be heard.  Take Home on Scenes Live from NY.  The harmonies during the first verse are ones where JLB is the lead and Portnoy (and Petrucci, I think) should be singing along to fill out the sound, but he is belting it out like he is trying to be louder than James, and then he does that thing at the end of the second line where he holds it an extra second or two after James had stopped, which sounds terrible.  And don't even get me started on that yelpy thing he did at the end of the Schmedley Wilcox medley they did on the SC tour.  The fact that he thought that was a good idea, and that either no one told it wasn't or that he ignored them and did it anyway, was a good indicator that he was drunk with too much power at that point.

I haven't listened to the live version of that album in a long time. I don't remember Portnoy being too loud on that song but I do remember the harmonies sounding like complete shit. And I think those harmonies were "fixed" for the album & DVD. Yikes!

[pg1067]

I haven't listened to the live version of that album in a long time. I don't remember Portnoy being too loud on that song but I do remember the harmonies sounding like complete shit. And I think those harmonies were "fixed" for the album & DVD. Yikes!

One thing that stood out big time when I first heard LSFNY on CD was how bad the harmony vocals were on Fatal Tragedy ("without love, without truth....").  If what you hear on the album/DVD are "fixed," then I shudder to think what the un-fixed version sounded like.

[Herrick]

I haven't listened to the live version of that album in a long time. I don't remember Portnoy being too loud on that song but I do remember the harmonies sounding like complete shit. And I think those harmonies were "fixed" for the album & DVD. Yikes!

One thing that stood out big time when I first heard LSFNY on CD was how bad the harmony vocals were on Fatal Tragedy ("without love, without truth....").  If what you hear on the album/DVD are "fixed," then I shudder to think what the un-fixed version sounded like.

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/12.aspx#312

MP: John's vox on Live Scenes From New York were overdubbed and mine were the original live ones... (the only one of John's that weren't overdubbed is the bridge of Through Her Eyes because we were sharing a mic....and that high, cracking harmony was NOT me!!*cough*)

I should've put that in my other post but I couldn't remember at the time where I heard about the overdubs.

[Learning2Live]

And, here's the real kicker for me. Portnoy wanted them to take a break. F)(#*)@(*$#)(*$ that noise. We barely get any material as it is and he wanted to take a break. When I heard that I literally said aloud, "oh, Hell no, see ya." I am happy he wanted to take his ass to the side projects since he wanted to cut into my joy of getting new DT material.

Care to elaborate more on this? Are you limiting this comment to just DT or from your favorite musicians as a whole?

Hopefully my counting skills are correct with the numbers here... I'll just round up to 10 years at this point, but in the 10 years since MP left the band, they went through the process of finding a new drummer and have put out 4 studio albums and 2 live albums (3rd live album is on its way). For the last 10 years that MP was in the band, they put out 5 studio albums and 3 live albums. So at least to me, there hasn't been that much of a drop off in output between the last of the MP era and MM era, especially considering the amount of touring that they do as well and the extra amount of time and resources they put into The Astonishing.

So I'm just curious if that bolded comment was directed at just DT, because if so, I think the amount of output that they've maintained since MP left - and have done over their entire career for that matter - is pretty consistent and plentiful. IMHO at least.

[Herrick]

Anyone else hear bootlegs of them doing Fatal Tragedy with him singing “you can eat ass and balls” in the chorus? That was....interesting.

I missed this post when I first read through this thread    I haven't heard those bootlegs but I heard a live version of As I Am where LaBrie sang those words. Strange.

Something else I missed when I first read through this thread: comments about the metal-style vocals LaBrie used in the mid-2000s albums. LaBrie was doing that back in the Images & Words live stuff as well the Awake studio & live material. I never saw them back in the day but I've heard live stuff from that era and I never thought that style suited LaBrie. His normal clean style was great. Anyway my point is, LaBrie was pushed to sing outside his normal zone back in the early to mid 1990s. Who was the culprit?

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I think the folks who say it wasn't about money are wrong.  Everything is always about money.  It may not always be the only factor, but it's always a factor; more often than not, the main factor.  And I don't think it's a coincidence that Portnoy wanted to "take a break because the band is stale" at exactly the same time Avenged Sevenfold needed a drummer for the tour and possibly for a permanent position. 


Mike saw the potential payday in that and attempted to pitch himself for the position, I think, assuming that because he's 'Mike Portnoy' they'd be chomping at the bit to sign him up.  Remember the bit about him saying, "I put out my press release, so I can be with you now!" I don't think he expected them to NOT offer him the full time gig.  I think he was counting on it.  It's always about money.  Sorry man, that's just how life is.  He gambled and lost.   It happens.  Just not always this publicly.



That's the only explanation of the events that makes any sense to me because it's always about the money.  You know how to tell it's about the money?  When they tell you 'it's not about the money' you know it's about the money, because its always about the money. 

[Orbert]

That's pretty damned cynical, and also false.  I've been gigging for free my entire life, because it's not always about the money.  I actually love to play and will do it for free.  Because I love to play, and because it isn't always about the money.

My band hasn't gigged since February because of COVID lockdowns and shit, but I keep on gigging for free because it isn't always about the money.

[hefdaddy42]

That's the only explanation of the events that makes any sense to me because it's always about the money.  You know how to tell it's about the money?  When they tell you 'it's not about the money' you know it's about the money, because its always about the money.

Doesn't that become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[Setlist Scotty]

Yeah, I think the folks who say it wasn't about money are wrong.  Everything is always about money.  It may not always be the only factor, but it's always a factor; more often than not, the main factor.  And I don't think it's a coincidence that Portnoy wanted to "take a break because the band is stale" at exactly the same time Avenged Sevenfold needed a drummer for the tour and possibly for a permanent position. 

Definitely disagree. He was in a *very* comfortable position within DT. While I don't know any specifics, I'd wager he probably made more money from DT than anyone else in the band, aside from perhaps JP. I doubt even if he was hired permanently by A7X that he would get the same payout that he was getting with DT - those guys were fully invested in the band, MP wasn't. Why would they give him the same cut that they got? Makes no sense at all.

I wouldn't say his wanting to join A7X was anything more about the money than any of the other bands/projects he's been involved in. Of course he's not gonna get involved with something for free (unless a favor for a friend on a one-time basis), but for him it's all about the music and the collaboration. Had he been chasing after other big name bands or drumming for huge solo artists, then you might have a point. But seeing as pretty much everything he's been involved in since then has been on the smaller scale, I'd say no.

[pg1067]

Everything is always about money.  It may not always be the only factor, but it's always a factor; more often than not, the main factor.

Whether or not MP's voluntary choice to leave the was or wasn't financially motivated (and none of us know whether it was or wasn't), these statements are utter nonsense.  Everything is always about money?  No.

[Trav86]

Yeah, I think the folks who say it wasn't about money are wrong.  Everything is always about money.  It may not always be the only factor, but it's always a factor; more often than not, the main factor.  And I don't think it's a coincidence that Portnoy wanted to "take a break because the band is stale" at exactly the same time Avenged Sevenfold needed a drummer for the tour and possibly for a permanent position. 


Mike saw the potential payday in that and attempted to pitch himself for the position, I think, assuming that because he's 'Mike Portnoy' they'd be chomping at the bit to sign him up.  Remember the bit about him saying, "I put out my press release, so I can be with you now!" I don't think he expected them to NOT offer him the full time gig.  I think he was counting on it.  It's always about money.  Sorry man, that's just how life is.  He gambled and lost.   It happens.  Just not always this publicly.



That's the only explanation of the events that makes any sense to me because it's always about the money.  You know how to tell it's about the money?  When they tell you 'it's not about the money' you know it's about the money, because its always about the money.

I think this is part of it. I think the other part was just playing in a band (Avenged) that was popular. They were headlining big shows at the time. I think they were headlining a big festival tour in the US while he was with them. At the time they were getting more mainstream recognition than DT and I think that (and the money) were gave him the ego...I mean, confidence to leave. At the time he was adamant that he didn’t leave DT to join AX7, but it was pretty obvious. He even tried to get back in the band after the AX7 guys cut him loose.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yeah, I think the folks who say it wasn't about money are wrong.  Everything is always about money.  It may not always be the only factor, but it's always a factor; more often than not, the main factor.  And I don't think it's a coincidence that Portnoy wanted to "take a break because the band is stale" at exactly the same time Avenged Sevenfold needed a drummer for the tour and possibly for a permanent position. 


Mike saw the potential payday in that and attempted to pitch himself for the position, I think, assuming that because he's 'Mike Portnoy' they'd be chomping at the bit to sign him up.  Remember the bit about him saying, "I put out my press release, so I can be with you now!" I don't think he expected them to NOT offer him the full time gig.  I think he was counting on it.  It's always about money.  Sorry man, that's just how life is.  He gambled and lost.   It happens.  Just not always this publicly.






That's the only explanation of the events that makes any sense to me because it's always about the money.  You know how to tell it's about the money?  When they tell you 'it's not about the money' you know it's about the money, because its always about the money.

I think this is part of it. I think the other part was just playing in a band (Avenged) that was popular. They were headlining big shows at the time. I think they were headlining a big festival tour in the US while he was with them. At the time they were getting more mainstream recognition than DT and I think that (and the money) were gave him the ego...I mean, confidence to leave. At the time he was adamant that he didn’t leave DT to join AX7, but it was pretty obvious. He even tried to get back in the band after the AX7 guys cut him loose.

Avenged Sevenfold even told MP, why did he do that.

To me, all MP had to do was to try and calm his OCD and try and relinquish control of certain aspects of the band. Let JM do the interviews, let JLB make the setlists, let JR edit the videos. But him not wanting to relinquish that control is a side effect of OCD. It's hard for someone with it to let others take control, especially if it's something the OCD person helped start or create.