Author Topic: You're cancelled!  (Read 3132 times)

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Offline TAC

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #140 on: June 28, 2020, 03:00:31 PM »
They don't care about any distinction, as they are not particularly interested in whether or not they are considered a "Peaceful Movement" anyway.

Now color and hue is the latest victim:

Quote
“The L’Oreal Group has decided to remove the words white/whitening, fair/fairness, light/lightening from all its skin evening products,” the French cosmetics giant said in statement.

WTF?? How do I know what to get now?? :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Northern Lion

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #141 on: June 28, 2020, 03:05:39 PM »
They don't care about any distinction, as they are not particularly interested in whether or not they are considered a "Peaceful Movement" anyway.

Now color and hue is the latest victim:

Quote
“The L’Oreal Group has decided to remove the words white/whitening, fair/fairness, light/lightening from all its skin evening products,” the French cosmetics giant said in statement.

WTF?? How do I know what to get now?? :lol

Just try each of them on at the store, and I'm sure you'll find your color again  :lol
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Offline TAC

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #142 on: June 28, 2020, 03:31:15 PM »
Are they going to rename Black Metal? I mean, what would you call it?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #143 on: June 28, 2020, 04:36:40 PM »
Metal of Color.
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Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #144 on: June 28, 2020, 04:46:20 PM »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #145 on: June 28, 2020, 05:53:44 PM »
I have to admit that I chucked when I saw the Kristen Bell news the other day, but she is being smart and being proactive, rather than the mob randomly deciding next Thursday that she is racist for voice acting a mixed character on an animated show and then her having to react and apologize, lose the voice acting job anyway, and be stuck with the racist tag going forward.  Best to apologize for anything you might have done ever and pray that the mob arbitrarily decides to go after someone else.

Is 'the mob' actually calling for this? I don't see anyone calling for this at all. Same with the removed blackface episodes, no one actually gives a fuck about any of this, all of these companies are just deciding this inane bullshit is how to address racism instead of any of the things protestors are actually calling for.

Not yet, which I why said Bell's actions were proactive, as recent history has shown that the current climate can turn on you at any time. Companies are reacting this way because of the cancel culture that has been created. 

In other news, and this might be the funniest one yet, Hulu pulled a Golden Girls episode where the two of the ladies were wearing mud faces.

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #146 on: June 28, 2020, 06:38:15 PM »
30 Rock just had 4 shows pulled from syndication because of black face.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #147 on: June 29, 2020, 12:19:18 PM »
With all my heart I respect and understand the peaceful protests.

What baffles me, is how they're making no distinction in condemning the violence of those that are causing the movement to get a bad name. There can be a radical group and a peaceful group. Once you separate the two, BLM can be seen as a Peaceful Movement.  And whatever the radical group is called can be treated as one. The innocent peaceful ones not wanting harm then won't have to worry about Police Violence, because then there'd be a good distinction between the two, and an easier case to have for Police Violence on peaceful protests.

This goes back to something I was trying to say about being human and recognizing feelings as more universal than "us versus them": what's difference between lumping all protestors - peaceful or violent - in together, and lumping all cops in one group?  Or, vice versa, the notion that even the good cops, if they're not ACTIVELY rooting out the bad apples are part of the problem, but somehow the peaceful protestors aren't accountable for their more violent brethren? 

I want to be clear: I'm not at all taking that position, I'm just pointing out examples of how the same scenery can look very different depending on your angle. 

Offline eric42434224

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #148 on: June 29, 2020, 12:47:00 PM »
..............................

GDM....I didnt want you to think I didnt read what you posted.  I did.  Just got so busy over the week and now stuff with work.  I think that you and I are likely closer in how we feel about things that we both realize.  I know you are a good guy.  I will try to re-engage with this conversation soon, but if I cant, I offer this:  :tup
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Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #149 on: June 29, 2020, 12:53:13 PM »
30 Rock just had 4 shows pulled from syndication because of black face.

Cage dammit!

I just cannot endorse any form of censorship (minus the fire in a movie theater stuff).

I’m glad I saw all these episodes on my recent rewatches before they got pulled.
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Offline Chino

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #150 on: June 29, 2020, 12:55:06 PM »
30 Rock just had 4 shows pulled from syndication because of black face.

They pulled an episode of Golden Girls!



It's ridiculous. Golden Girls was so ahead of its time when it came to being accepting of people different from you. 

Offline kaos2900

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #151 on: June 29, 2020, 01:01:23 PM »
30 Rock just had 4 shows pulled from syndication because of black face.

They pulled an episode of Golden Girls!



It's ridiculous. Golden Girls was so ahead of its time when it came to being accepting of people different from you.

100%. We're actually watching the series now and watched this episode a couple of weeks ago. I told my wife "I bet this gets pulled" and sure enough here we are. The most ridiculous thing is it's a fantastic episode to show that skin color shouldn't matter when it comes to love. A synopsis for those who haven't seen the episode. Dorothy's son get's engaged to an older black woman. Dorothy is not happy about the engagement not because she's black but because of her age. The lady's mother is the actually the one who is upset by the fact that her daughter is engaged to a white person. Long story short, turns out she's pregnant and Dorothy and the other mother put aside their difference so that they can be there for their grandchild. The maybe black face joke is that Rose and Blanche are wearing mud masks to look younger and walk into the conversation between Dorothy and the black woman's family.

WHY IS THAT OFFENSIVE!!!

It's really just ridiculous. We are on a slippery slope at this point.

Offline Chino

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #152 on: June 29, 2020, 01:07:37 PM »
I'm curious as to what Tropic Thunder's fate is going to be.

Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #153 on: June 29, 2020, 01:08:51 PM »
I will say this.

I 100% support black lives matter despite all of this nonsense. I hope this complete horribleness doesn't detract anyone from the legit cause.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #154 on: June 29, 2020, 02:51:12 PM »
I'm curious as to what Tropic Thunder's fate is going to be.

Let's just say I'm glad I own a physical copy of that film.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #155 on: June 29, 2020, 03:18:50 PM »
I'll be curious if they pull out of syndication the Seinfeld episode when Kramer stays in the tanning bed too long and looks overly tan when he shows up to meet his black girlfriend's family.

Trading Places will likely stopped getting shown on TV as well due the scene on the train where Dan Akyroyd is wearing blackface (in disguise).

Offline eric42434224

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #156 on: July 02, 2020, 03:46:18 PM »
I live basically on the border of Sunrise FL and Plantation FL.  We live in Sunrise, but my kids school and travel softball team are in Plantation.

A Plantation resident is petitioning to have the name changed due to the history of the word.  I would actually be ok with that if the name was based on Plantations in that sense.  But it was named from the company that developed the wetlands in Broward County, Everglades Plantation Company.  So.....in this case I disagree with the renaming.
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #157 on: July 03, 2020, 06:10:22 AM »
Some people actually wanted to rename Penny Lane in England, because they thought it had ties to a slave trader.  However, historians have done research and concluded that there was no connection with that area and that slave trader.  If it did, then it would have been considered to have been renamed.  Then what?  Would the Beatles' song called Penny Lane be cancelled as well?

https://loudwire.com/slavery-museum-no-link-beatles-penny-lane-slave-trader/

Offline contest_sanity

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #158 on: July 04, 2020, 04:55:08 PM »
Cool, so let's do some real change and cancel the police instead (the institution, not the band).

Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #159 on: July 06, 2020, 09:27:16 AM »
Cool, so let's do some real change and cancel the police instead (the institution, not the band).

That's awesome.  Can't wait to see that.   

(Full disclosure; my brother is a cop, and I've seen the great work he's done over the 20, 25 years of his career, serving his community, keeping people safe, finding perpetrators of crimes that are difficult to fathom, let alone describe... it'll be so awesome without his service.


Look, I left that so you could see the thought process; it's not fair, though, to be sarcastic, but it's so hard not to, because the very notion of "cancelling" the police outright is so hard to process with any sincerety, at least not without a LOT of caveats and exclusions.   Certainly reform is in order, and certainly there are improvements that can be made to provide the very best of that service.  But "cancel" implies no debate, no caveats, no compromise, and I'm sorry, I can't see a way to accepting "cancel" on ANY level for something as serious as this.

Offline contest_sanity

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #160 on: July 06, 2020, 10:22:17 AM »
Abolishing our police forces as we know them today doesn't mean replace them with nothing... and I apologize to everyone if my statement was phrased too dismissively. But then again, just "reforming the police" hasn't really worked out too well. Sometimes provocative slogans do provoke discussion. My basic point was just that, if we wanna complain about how canceling this or that celebrity does not nothing, perhaps let's focus on some of the bigger issues that at least some people are very concerned about. I'm not saying no debate, and I'm not suggesting, Stads, that your brother is a bad person.

As I guess you already know, but maybe I should lay out my reasoning for others to see, I think of all these systems systemically -- and I'll even change the profession to show my point. I've been a public school teacher for 8 years. I think I'm a decent person and a decent teacher. And yet I feel that I'm participating in an educational system which routinely does harm to black and other students of color. And I feel that I even do it personally, despite my best intentions -- because that's what happens so often when people get incorporated into the machine. And I am in daily self-conflict and self-doubt, because I am afraid that I have simply become part of the machine. 

To bring the issue back to the police, IF one believes (and many people of color and some white allies do), that the police are integral to modern enslavement of said minority communities (meaning our system of mass incarceration), then saying "reform police" doesn't feel all that different from saying we could have just "reformed slavery."

I know all of this probably sounds ludicrous, and yet, there are already many communities that effectively function without a heavy-handed police presence. They are often very wealthy and largely white communities. Is crime not out of control in such places because the people there are inherently better? Or is crime less of a problem in any community that has (for all) adequate wealth distribution, fair housing, good job opportunities, food security, etc.?

Anyway, some smarter people than I have discussed this topic; if anyone wants to look at additional context, here's a few links:

Interactive article: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/us-without-police-reform-defund-trnd/index.html

Podcast: https://youtu.be/BJBBpk2x7P8?t=82
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 10:29:33 AM by contest_sanity »

Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #161 on: July 06, 2020, 12:23:48 PM »
Abolishing our police forces as we know them today doesn't mean replace them with nothing... and I apologize to everyone if my statement was phrased too dismissively. But then again, just "reforming the police" hasn't really worked out too well. Sometimes provocative slogans do provoke discussion. My basic point was just that, if we wanna complain about how canceling this or that celebrity does not nothing, perhaps let's focus on some of the bigger issues that at least some people are very concerned about. I'm not saying no debate, and I'm not suggesting, Stads, that your brother is a bad person.

But many are.  They very much are.    I tend to agree that previous efforts to reform the police haven't worked out, but that doesn't mean that ALL efforts to reform the police have to fail.  There need to be more comprehensive approaches.    We're talking about revamping the entire police force in response to 1,000 shooting per year - roughly 250 of which are African Americans (I've cited this already about six times; I can get you the source if you need a seventh! :) :))   "No-knock warrants" was something that was cited as a good first step.  Did anyone bother to consider what that would mean vis-a-vis the 300,000 (a guess; look at the graph) drug arrests per year for sales/manufacture?  I get it, one life lost is not worth 1, 10, even 100 drug busts, but these things have consequences, and when you get to the point that we're potentially trading suspect lives for cop lives, that's not a meaningful compromise.
Quote

As I guess you already know, but maybe I should lay out my reasoning for others to see, I think of all these systems systemically -- and I'll even change the profession to show my point. I've been a public school teacher for 8 years. I think I'm a decent person and a decent teacher. And yet I feel that I'm participating in an educational system which routinely does harm to black and other students of color. And I feel that I even do it personally, despite my best intentions -- because that's what happens so often when people get incorporated into the machine. And I am in daily self-conflict and self-doubt, because I am afraid that I have simply become part of the machine. 

How so?   And at what point does it go the other way?  Bear with me, here, because I'm not sure I have the language to articulate this, and it certainly depends on the types of things you're talking but if the system is only as good as the people in it, and the people in it can't effect the change, doesn't that imply that there either isn't change to implement or it's not the system?  What is your particular goal here?   

Quote
To bring the issue back to the police, IF one believes (and many people of color and some white allies do), that the police are integral to modern enslavement of said minority communities (meaning our system of mass incarceration), then saying "reform police" doesn't feel all that different from saying we could have just "reformed slavery."

Look I get that you capitalized IF, but the rest of that language basically begs the question.   What are we talking about here?  I was on a jury once in my life (a fascinating experience for a lawyer), and the defedant - African American with prior drug-related felonies - was arrested in possession of two "cakes" of crack cocaine, two weapons, and about $3000 in $10's and $20's.  As corrupt as the police could possibly be, those items were in his car.  The police didn't put them there (and the defence implicitly allowed for that).   Whether there is a history of oppression, or an income gap, at what point does the discussion address the point that selling cakes of crack through an intricate network of salespeople, having an apartment that is not a residence but is a "command center" for a drug distribution operation is not necessarily a "race" issue?   

Quote
I know all of this probably sounds ludicrous, and yet, there are already many communities that effectively function without a heavy-handed police presence. They are often very wealthy and largely white communities. Is crime not out of control in such places because the people there are inherently better? Or is crime less of a problem in any community that has (for all) adequate wealth distribution, fair housing, good job opportunities, food security, etc.?

Not ludicrous.  Not at all; it does seem a little one-note though.  How do we attribute cause and correlation?   Too much of these discussions seem to revolve around a presence of color that is assumed to be a driving factor.   And even when race is a factor, we're trying to get blanket reforms that solve the racism of person-to-person interactions and the racism of systemic and historical inequities, without, seemingly, any real analysis as to the relationship between them.   I tend to think the latter are far more economically rooted than racially rooted, even if some of the causes of the economic inequities have racial components.  But even if we acquiesce to those roots, what would or should the response be?  Is it fair or acceptable to assume that all the outcomes would have been the same?   


Offline Cool Chris

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #162 on: July 06, 2020, 11:50:34 PM »
I've been a public school teacher for 8 years. I think I'm a decent person and a decent teacher. And yet I feel that I'm participating in an educational system which routinely does harm to black and other students of color.

As someone married to an educator, I was hoping you could elaborate on this, if you do not mind.
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Offline contest_sanity

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #163 on: July 07, 2020, 05:35:29 AM »
This video might explain it better than me (also typing on my phone rn):

https://youtu.be/zMQYqRVryZ8

But the crux of the argument is that too often what is considered “academic” is often very white-centered, and thus we almost by (perhaps inadvertent) necessity end up “teaching” them that their black or hispanic or other POC culture is wrong.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #164 on: July 07, 2020, 12:47:37 PM »
This video might explain it better than me (also typing on my phone rn):

https://youtu.be/zMQYqRVryZ8

But the crux of the argument is that too often what is considered “academic” is often very white-centered, and thus we almost by (perhaps inadvertent) necessity end up “teaching” them that their black or hispanic or other POC culture is wrong.

It was made just for that purpose.

Us Natives had children stolen from their parents and forced into assimilation into the white way of living, and thinking. They were punished for speaking their language (which was all they knew), from practicing their ways, and many other atrocities I don't need to get into here.

Those children were as old as my Great Grandparents, it hasn't been 100 years since these have happened.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2020, 08:43:42 AM »
This video might explain it better than me (also typing on my phone rn):

https://youtu.be/zMQYqRVryZ8

But the crux of the argument is that too often what is considered “academic” is often very white-centered, and thus we almost by (perhaps inadvertent) necessity end up “teaching” them that their black or hispanic or other POC culture is wrong.

Hard to argue with any message that is is positive and affirmative to education, but this is an example of one of the problems with this line of discussion.  The line of "anecdotal" and "representative" is so thin and so subjective.   NO ONE told me I was "brilliant" either.  Certainly my friend Steve - guitar player in my high school band, now has I think 7 or 8 albums out - was never told he was "brilliant", yet he's found his way.   The list of rock stars that are in their own way "brilliant" but were dismissed at the academic level is as long as my arm.  Springsteen; Mellencamp; Hewson; Sinatra; Mathers (Eminem); Dwight (John); Bowie; Nelson (Prince); Cobain; Joel; Ritchie (Kid Rock); Carter (Jay-Z); Frehley... and of course, all of this begs the question, is "laying down a sick beat" or "stringing together three chords and the truth" really "brilliance"?   We reward that, but that doesn't make it so.

Bottom line, though, it's not always about "African American".   It's often about something more fundamental: HUMAN potential.   For fuck's sake, I've got three advanced degrees now and a Mensa cert somewhere in a drawer, but at the time, my high school guidance counselor couldn't be bothered to send my fucking transcript to my first choice of college (true story; got waitlisted pending submission, but ended up losing my spot.  Ended up going to my state safety school; better or worse, changed the course of my life in countless ways.)   I know it's a different time today, but how much of this "not fitting in" is as much "HUMAN experience" not "black experience"? 

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #166 on: August 01, 2020, 10:10:31 AM »
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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