Author Topic: You're cancelled!  (Read 15987 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2020, 08:15:21 AM »
Right.  White people have to be labeled for a movie 80 years ago. I am not aligned with what white people believed 80 years ago yet we now have to have an understanding that you have to pull that movie now?

I am 100% behind wiping out racism.  Canceling movies 80 years ago will do nothing to help that cause.


This is important, though, because there's starting to be some evidence that it ("cancelling" generally) hurts the cause.  Education is good, but when the implicit message is "we know what's best for you" and "we're going to ostracize you", it can have a reinforcing effect.  I've given the links here within the past day or so, so there's no need to repeat that.   But we have to start acting in concert with the science, not the feel-good emotion of the moment if we really want to get where I think we all want to go. 

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2020, 08:17:09 AM »
I can tell you it is insane on Facebook reading both sides El Barto.  Good friends are on polar opposite side on everything.  Over reacting, under reacting.  Non Stop posts of not support but mocking others.  It's a crazy time we live in.  I just wish both sides could work together to better it for all but it seems very naive on my part.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2020, 08:18:47 AM »
So yeah, the small percentage of those who shout from the rooftops about this stuff do have power.  They scare the hell out of business owners, who then make decisions as a result.  They have power.
I think this has always been the case. How many actors, writers, and directors were blacklisted for their political beliefs? Mohammad Alie? Hanoi Jane? Jimmy the Greek? None of these people were actually punished because their employers cared about what they thought. They were punished because it was the sensible business option.

True, but in today's culture, the cancel culture mob on Twitter and elsewhere can cause such a ruckus that a business reaches a point where it is deemed necessary to cut ties with an employee to avoid any or any more backlash.
Yep, and Dalton Trumbo could tell you all about how it feels. Same with Jimmy the Greek. Charlie Chaplin had to leave the country to work. Again, none of this is new, save for the "cancel culture" label, almost certainly invented by some conservative commentator seeking to rile people up.

No, none of this is new.  That's true.  And I agree with you 100% on the specific case of GWTW; see it for what it is.   But as regards the larger cancel culture, and those instances that are not being handled as deftly as GWTW, do you think Jimmy The Greek had any great epiphany?  Or the guys that used to tune in on Sunday afternoon on CBS to see Phyllis George (RIP) who agreed with him?   

It's not new at all, but we're starting to see that it hasn't worked for the 80 years or whatever that it's been implemented, and it's time to do something different (and, god forbid, maybe a little more work, a little more difficult, and a little less immediately satisfying than "CANCEL").    "Cancel" doesn't change minds; it is more a form of revenge and punishment. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2020, 08:26:03 AM »
The reaction to GWtW and this so-called "cancel culture" reeks of mission creep. I'm opposed to deleting the confederacy from history. It bums me out to think of some excellent movies that would never have been made in today's climate. I'm particularly bothered by the effect all of this has on context, which is to essentially disregard it. What they're doing with GWtW is exactly what they should be doing, though. The people who are so put out by this alleged "cancel culture" should be celebrating this rather than getting in a twist over it. It seems they've gotten so worked up that even a victory offends them. Or, more likely, what they've really wanted all along was for the libs to just shut up and eat their pine cone.

For the record, I’ve pushed back on this cancel culture for a while, not just this week because of GwtW (which I’ve still never seen). I have no idea who even coined the “cancel culture” phrase.

Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2020, 08:53:14 AM »
Oddly, I agree with everyone I think.

Studly is right that none of this has ever really accomplished anything other than appeasing loud fans.

I also agree that, in the specific case of GWtW, it's not a big deal what they're doing and is definitely not part of any cancel culture.


I will happily agree that "cancel culture" or whatever is dumb in every way, as long as people recognize that it's not some new phenomenon by anger liberals but has been historically present for a VERY long time by both left and right leaning people and it's just a human problem and not one necessarily associated with any political leaning.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2020, 08:59:57 AM »
There's now a demand to cancel the young kids show 'Paw Patrol' because the main character is a Dog Police Officer   :facepalm:
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Offline jammindude

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2020, 09:01:54 AM »
The reaction to GWtW and this so-called "cancel culture" reeks of mission creep. I'm opposed to deleting the confederacy from history. It bums me out to think of some excellent movies that would never have been made in today's climate. I'm particularly bothered by the effect all of this has on context, which is to essentially disregard it. What they're doing with GWtW is exactly what they should be doing, though. The people who are so put out by this alleged "cancel culture" should be celebrating this rather than getting in a twist over it. It seems they've gotten so worked up that even a victory offends them. Or, more likely, what they've really wanted all along was for the libs to just shut up and eat their pine cone.

For the record, I’ve pushed back on this cancel culture for a while, not just this week because of GwtW (which I’ve still never seen). I have no idea who even coined the “cancel culture” phrase.

It’s just the newest trendy catch phrase for something that, as Adami pointed out, has been around for a long time. The internet just allows these types of things to get trendy a lot faster, and win over (or outrage) a bigger audience.
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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2020, 10:40:05 AM »
Right.  White people have to be labeled for a movie 80 years ago. I am not aligned with what white people believed 80 years ago yet we now have to have an understanding that you have to pull that movie now?

I am 100% behind wiping out racism.   Canceling movies 80 years ago will do nothing to help that cause.

The movie itself can be used as an insight into people's mindsets during the time it's filmed.

All of the movies made around when GWTW was made, are a product of their time. The Westerns have White actors playing Natives for crying out loud. It's historical in showing how us Natives weren't as assimilated into white culture. It's not racist, it's the only way they could show Natives in movies.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2020, 10:44:43 AM »
Right.  White people have to be labeled for a movie 80 years ago. I am not aligned with what white people believed 80 years ago yet we now have to have an understanding that you have to pull that movie now?

I am 100% behind wiping out racism.   Canceling movies 80 years ago will do nothing to help that cause.

The movie itself can be used as an insight into people's mindsets during the time it's filmed.

All of the movies made around when GWTW was made, are a product of their time. The Westerns have White actors playing Natives for crying out loud. It's historical in showing how us Natives weren't as assimilated into white culture. It's not racist, it's the only way they could show Natives in movies.

For sure.  Look at how in Westerns when a cowboy gets shit he grunts like a man but an Indian gets shot and he screams in a high pitch, whaling scream.  It's so wrong.  But most do get it.  Right now what's needed it real reform for police departments.  I think these little platitudes just make us feel better of our guilt.  Real, gut wrenching conversations and working out these issues is what's really needed.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline eric42434224

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2020, 10:50:58 AM »
It’s not an either/or, or an all or nothing.  We need all types of action, big and small.  HBO can’t solve racism by itself.  We should encourage people and businesses to contribute in any way they can.  At least there is an effort.

Edit:  I mean there is a lot of criticism of HBOs actions here.  What would you recommend HBO do to effect “real change”.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 10:57:56 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2020, 11:03:01 AM »
HBO isn't effecting real change. But neither is a single person with a poster on the streets. But get 10,000 of them and you got something. But if that person stayed home because they alone aren't doing enough, then the 10,000 never happen either.
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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2020, 11:04:36 AM »
Right.  White people have to be labeled for a movie 80 years ago. I am not aligned with what white people believed 80 years ago yet we now have to have an understanding that you have to pull that movie now?

I am 100% behind wiping out racism.   Canceling movies 80 years ago will do nothing to help that cause.

The movie itself can be used as an insight into people's mindsets during the time it's filmed.

All of the movies made around when GWTW was made, are a product of their time. The Westerns have White actors playing Natives for crying out loud. It's historical in showing how us Natives weren't as assimilated into white culture. It's not racist, it's the only way they could show Natives in movies.

For sure.  Look at how in Westerns when a cowboy gets shit he grunts like a man but an Indian gets shot and he screams in a high pitch, whaling scream.  It's so wrong.  But most do get it.  Right now what's needed it real reform for police departments.  I think these little platitudes just make us feel better of our guilt.  Real, gut wrenching conversations and working out these issues is what's really needed.

Which are the questions we need to ask the ones that are running for election.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2020, 11:14:00 AM »
HBO isn't effecting real change. But neither is a single person with a poster on the streets. But get 10,000 of them and you got something. But if that person stayed home because they alone aren't doing enough, then the 10,000 never happen either.

100% 

Eric, HBO isn't who needs to affect change.  We do. Starting with this election and what Adami is talking about.  HBO will not put pressure on politicians.


Right.  White people have to be labeled for a movie 80 years ago. I am not aligned with what white people believed 80 years ago yet we now have to have an understanding that you have to pull that movie now?

I am 100% behind wiping out racism.   Canceling movies 80 years ago will do nothing to help that cause.

The movie itself can be used as an insight into people's mindsets during the time it's filmed.

All of the movies made around when GWTW was made, are a product of their time. The Westerns have White actors playing Natives for crying out loud. It's historical in showing how us Natives weren't as assimilated into white culture. It's not racist, it's the only way they could show Natives in movies.

For sure.  Look at how in Westerns when a cowboy gets shit he grunts like a man but an Indian gets shot and he screams in a high pitch, whaling scream.  It's so wrong.  But most do get it.  Right now what's needed it real reform for police departments.  I think these little platitudes just make us feel better of our guilt.  Real, gut wrenching conversations and working out these issues is what's really needed.

Which are the questions we need to ask the ones that are running for election.

Totally agree.  It's on us to persuade politicians for real change.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline El Barto

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2020, 11:20:58 AM »
HBO isn't effecting real change. But neither is a single person with a poster on the streets. But get 10,000 of them and you got something. But if that person stayed home because they alone aren't doing enough, then the 10,000 never happen either.

100% 

Eric, HBO isn't who needs to affect change.  We do. Starting with this election and what Adami is talking about.  HBO will not put pressure on politicians.
I think in a roundabout sort of way you're exactly right. Where you're missing the mark is that HBO is working to help change us. That's a good thing, as we're damn sure not doing it on our own. You're bemoaning them for what they're doing, yet what they're doing is actually part of the solution.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2020, 11:46:56 AM »
I get it El Barto.  I'm happier that black actors are getting better roles.  Movies like Green Book & Hidden Figures do so much more for African Americans and that's what the big screen & TV should do.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline eric42434224

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2020, 12:00:25 PM »
I get it El Barto.  I'm happier that black actors are getting better roles.  Movies like Green Book & Hidden Figures do so much more for African Americans and that's what the big screen & TV should do.

But why can’t HBO also contribute in another ways too?  Why only the way you think is appropriate?  Why are you, a white person (I think), making assumption on what the Black community wants or needs?  Or how HBO as a company and people sends that message?  Maybe the Black Community welcome BOTH?  I would bet that they do.

HBO isn't effecting real change. But neither is a single person with a poster on the streets. But get 10,000 of them and you got something. But if that person stayed home because they alone aren't doing enough, then the 10,000 never happen either.

100% 

Eric, HBO isn't who needs to affect change.  We do. Starting with this election and what Adami is talking about.  HBO will not put pressure on politicians.

But HBO is ultimately made up of people like you and me...they are essentially just a protester that has a different/bigger type of sign.  Why can't they make their signs as they see fit?
I really don't understand the resistance to the actions HBO has taken....that this particular one is somehow not the "right way" to do it....too small...etc.

Maybe some people now will look a bit closer, learn a bit more, about these old and inaccurate portrayals of important social topics.  Small change can lead to big change as Adami pointed out.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 12:11:51 PM by eric42434224 »
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Offline SystematicThought

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2020, 12:11:38 PM »
There's now a demand to cancel the young kids show 'Paw Patrol' because the main character is a Dog Police Officer   :facepalm:
One of the producers for Monk came out and apologized for his show glorifying cops. I barely associate that show with cops, that one and Paw Patrol earn major eye rolls from me
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2020, 12:24:34 PM »
I get it El Barto.  I'm happier that black actors are getting better roles.  Movies like Green Book & Hidden Figures do so much more for African Americans and that's what the big screen & TV should do.

But why can’t HBO also contribute in another ways too?  Why only the way you think is appropriate?  Why are you, a white person (I think), making assumption on what the Black community wants or needs?  Or how HBO as a company and people sends that message?  Maybe the Black Community welcome BOTH?  I would bet that they do.

HBO isn't effecting real change. But neither is a single person with a poster on the streets. But get 10,000 of them and you got something. But if that person stayed home because they alone aren't doing enough, then the 10,000 never happen either.

100% 

Eric, HBO isn't who needs to affect change.  We do. Starting with this election and what Adami is talking about.  HBO will not put pressure on politicians.

But HBO is ultimately made up of people like you and me...they are essentially just a protester that has a different/bigger type of sign.  Why can't they make their signs as they see fit?
I really don't understand the resistance to the actions HBO has taken....that this particular one is somehow not the "right way" to do it....too small...etc.

Maybe some people now will look a bit closer, learn a bit more, about these old and inaccurate portrayals of important social topics.  Small change can lead to big change as Adami pointed out.


What is more poignant Eric?  True stories on real life African Americans and their triumphs or having a statement before a movie made 80 years ago.  I can tell you African Americans that I work with tell me that the movies mean more.  Maybe I should have stated that. 

I think those roles are much more meaningful than what HBO did, at least that what I've got from a few of my employees.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline El Barto

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2020, 12:41:38 PM »
I get it El Barto.  I'm happier that black actors are getting better roles.  Movies like Green Book & Hidden Figures do so much more for African Americans and that's what the big screen & TV should do.

But why can’t HBO also contribute in another ways too?  Why only the way you think is appropriate?  Why are you, a white person (I think), making assumption on what the Black community wants or needs?  Or how HBO as a company and people sends that message?  Maybe the Black Community welcome BOTH?  I would bet that they do.

HBO isn't effecting real change. But neither is a single person with a poster on the streets. But get 10,000 of them and you got something. But if that person stayed home because they alone aren't doing enough, then the 10,000 never happen either.

100% 

Eric, HBO isn't who needs to affect change.  We do. Starting with this election and what Adami is talking about.  HBO will not put pressure on politicians.

But HBO is ultimately made up of people like you and me...they are essentially just a protester that has a different/bigger type of sign.  Why can't they make their signs as they see fit?
I really don't understand the resistance to the actions HBO has taken....that this particular one is somehow not the "right way" to do it....too small...etc.

Maybe some people now will look a bit closer, learn a bit more, about these old and inaccurate portrayals of important social topics.  Small change can lead to big change as Adami pointed out.


What is more poignant Eric?  True stories on real life African Americans and their triumphs or having a statement before a movie made 80 years ago.  I can tell you African Americans that I work with tell me that the movies mean more.  Maybe I should have stated that. 

I think those roles are much more meaningful than what HBO did, at least that what I've got from a few of my employees.
You're addressing the people who don't actually need this explained to them. Making black folk feel better might be part of it, but the benefit, at least I think, will be in having somebody explain that slavery was far more abhorrent than what was depicted in the movie. Again, I'm looking at it as an educational thing; not a feel good thing.
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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2020, 12:49:20 PM »
Speaking of education...
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8404307/Professor-suspended-refusing-request-lenient-marking-black-students-assessments.html

 :rollin :rollin

Don't they realize, what they did is worse.

Now if the professor was giving him worse grades then he actually should have gotten is where I would see an issue.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2020, 01:02:24 PM »
Given all that's happened this year I kind of figured everybody's getting pretty generous grading. An acquaintance of mine is a teacher in Fort Worth, and according to him nobody fails this year. My hunch is that Fs get "rounded up" to Ds.  I've actually seen something similar when I was in college. A sociology teacher snapped and had to be escorted out of class. The evening dean came in and pretty much said "look, don't worry about it, everybody's getting a B this year, and don't worry about coming back."  :lol
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2020, 01:05:16 PM »
El Barto and Eric.  I understand.  I get that every little adds up to good.  I just get the feeling that what HBO did is low on the list of what matters to African Americans.  At least in my conversations with my employees. In the end we all want the same thing. 


Oh and that article.  Yowzers.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2020, 01:11:30 PM »
El Barto and Eric.  I understand.  I get that every little adds up to good.  I just get the feeling that what HBO did is low on the list of what matters to African Americans.  At least in my conversations with my employees. In the end we all want the same thing. 


Oh and that article.  Yowzers.

You're right. It won't make any significant difference on its own.

Also, since I'm not terribly aware, but I haven't seen HBO make a big deal of this, have they? The only mentions I see are people pissed off at HBO for "cancelling" GWTW because the libs want to rewrite history. I honestly haven't seen HBO say much of anything about it.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2020, 01:15:14 PM »
CNN, The Washington Post, USA Today and other wrote articles on it.  They are all saying it will be back in a week with an introduction.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2020, 01:17:04 PM »
CNN, The Washington Post, USA Today and other wrote articles on it.  They are all saying it will be back in a week with an introduction.

So is HBO presenting it as some grand gesture or just a thing?
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2020, 01:22:15 PM »
CNN, The Washington Post, USA Today and other wrote articles on it.  They are all saying it will be back in a week with an introduction.

So is HBO presenting it as some grand gesture or just a thing?

Most are just reporting it was pulled but some have a quote from an HBO rep.

A spokesperson for HBO Max, which like CNN is owned by WarnerMedia, told CNN Business that "Gone with the Wind" is "a product of its time and depicts some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that have, unfortunately, been commonplace in American society."
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Adami

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2020, 01:30:33 PM »
Gotcha. Then I wouldn't care if it's not the thing to make a lot of difference since that's not how they're pitching it.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2020, 03:49:58 PM »
If only it were that simple.  But it's not.  And I think you know that.

No, it really is. Companies are free to tailor their products to market forces. And the current sensibilities and attitudes of the consumers are a market force that CEOs and shareholders can respond to.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2020, 10:00:47 PM »
Lots of statues are being defaced/town down, including one of Matthias W. Baldwin in Philly. What does Wikipedia say about this guy?

Quote
In 1835, he donated money to establish a school for African-American children in Philadelphia and continued to pay the teachers' salaries out of his own pocket for years thereafter.[3] Baldwin was an outspoken supporter for the abolition of slavery in the United States, a position that was used against him and his firm by competitors eager to sell locomotives to railroads based in the slaveholding South.[3]

Baldwin was a member of the 1837 Pennsylvania State Constitutional Convention and emerged as a defender of voting rights for the state's black male citizens.

Good! Fuck this racist asshole.   
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2020, 07:01:10 AM »
Id be willing to bet that it was torn down by those rioting, not by those trying to make a difference with racism.  But I think you already know that, and posted it just for effect anyway.

Oh well....I will take stone statues torn down (which can magically be re-made or fixed) over brutal, racist police sanctioned murder.  Cant re-make or fix George Floyd.

See how my statement is kind of inflammatory, misses the point, and isn't really conducive to constructive conversation?  Sound familiar?  C'mon Man....we all need to do better...especially with this volatile topic.

Edit: and Chris, I’m not intending this to be a personal attack on you, so my apologies if it seems that way.  But the post feels like a drive-by zinger.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 07:16:03 AM by eric42434224 »
Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2020, 07:58:13 AM »
Unfortunately, many on both sides can't differentiate between the 2 because of their blind anger. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2020, 08:21:17 AM »
If only it were that simple.  But it's not.  And I think you know that.

No, it really is. Companies are free to tailor their products to market forces. And the current sensibilities and attitudes of the consumers are a market force that CEOs and shareholders can respond to.

The problem is that this approach - which I abide by almost 100%, by the way, even though I don't like it - is disingenuous.  Because it's not meant nor marketed as "responding to market forces", it's nothing so benign and factual as it is made out to be.  "Responding to market forces" is an objective, metric driven decision made in a conference room, strategy session, or boardroom.  Companies do it on the daily, in a 1,000 different ways, without ever  making a press release, or issuing a statement, or firing employees.   

This is a way of justifying bullying, in my opinion.  It's not "market forces" in the real sense of the word, it's pandering to bullies in order to keep as little mud off the bottom of their pants as they can.   Again, I'm not suggesting it ought to be changed; the system works and you take a little bad with the good, but it's not as much of a "choice" as it's made out to be.

Offline El Barto

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2020, 08:42:10 AM »
No, it's a business decision. Of the sort that companies make all the time. Personally, I struggle with things like this for any number of reasons I've described in the past, but I don't really buy your distinction between bullying and adjusting to market forces. Companies do make this choice all the time. CFA is selling more crappy sandwiches than ever after telling gay rights activists to fuck off. People still watch football, despite the NFL's blowing off of leftist concerns. Nugent still plays concerts and acts silly on stage. James Wood still makes movies. FOX is still the most trusted name in news, or so they say. It's a choice. And let's also keep in mind that it's a choice with consequences. How many total idiots burned their Nikes a couple of years ago? How much hate mail does Ted receive on a daily basis? How many customers did CFA lose before toadying Christians made up the slack?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: You're cancelled!
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2020, 10:51:07 AM »
Not all those are the same, though.

James Woods is a two-time Academy Award nominee that has only a handfull of award nominations in the past 20 years.
The Cathy family was "forced" to choose between their fundamental religious beliefs and their business.
Nugent is Nugent.
The NFL's move was a monkey fucking a, well, football; they didn't make a choice as much as bumble into a quagmire.
Fox is mocked and hated by anyone left of John Kasich; I've been fighting that battle for a while now.

You said it yourself: it's a choice with a consequence.  If you believe, as I do, that as often as not the consequences are way out of whack with the underlying choice, it's not really a choice then.  A "choice" is opting to put up with the blip of bad publicity for reserving $1M for the lawsuit rather than spending $500M to fix the gas tank.  Or unilaterally dedicating some percentage of your factory space to electric cars over gas-powered cars.  Or opting to record that Diane Warren song instead of your bass players song; sacrificing a percentage of your hard core fans for the millions who will buy the single.  Those are choices.