Author Topic: Racism and Privilege  (Read 14997 times)

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #175 on: October 27, 2020, 09:24:25 PM »
In 10th Grade, we were required to Learn New Mexico History,

That's great, all histories and cultures should be taught. There is a large population of Natives here as well and I remember taking classes about Native history and culture.

I think these Black Segregation Schools, are intending it to be like this. To teach their people where they come from, their heritage, and origins.

Families should do this, not schools. Teaching children about different cultures and histories is good thing. There should be more of it. Basing a school's curriculum around one specific culture is not. Maybe that is not what is happening, but that is kinda what it sounds like. I admit I know nothing of these schools. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a "Black Segregation School."

Of course basing a school around on specific culture is not, yet that's exactly what your schools are/were doing with your European Heritage. These are just priorities as the population is the more dominant in that Area.


I found this interesting Article about how there are still "Segregated Schools". And lo and behold Bernalillo County is the one that is Medium, because The Native and Hispanic population dominates both White and Black population. We actually have what we consider the White Classier Neighborhood in the North East Heights of Albuquerque, that has these schools considered the white school, La Cueva. Then you have the Southwest of Albuquerque, a highly Hispanic population with the a school considered by the locals as the Ghetto school, Rio Grande Valley High School.

I don't know why, but that's just how it happened. The Hispanic population has always been here, along with The Native population. White Population of America slowly began making their way here, and incorporating the big city life into our areas. And we locals see that, and the effect it is having.


Edit: I forgot to add, I agree about it's the families that should teach those 4 things.

And, Our concept of a school, is different. Our school is life, we use what is around us to teach. Many of our stories and myths are lessons. It's how I used the metaphors of the Tree and The Branch. And how I can use it now, in reality. We have an invasive Tree Species called the Russian Olive that is taking over the Local Cottonwood Trees. So to put it locally, The Spaniards are the Russian Olives, and we Natives of the Rio Grande are the Cottonwood Trees.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 09:44:25 PM by Ben_Jamin »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #176 on: October 28, 2020, 09:06:59 AM »
The concept and idea of segregation of schools (and really, it applies anywhere) is a difficult one for me.  I balance between free will and intent, but even then it's not clear.   I do find it fascinating, though, how often humans decry a particular framework when it doesn't work for them, but readily embrace it when it does.    "Men's clubs" are great for men, but suck for women, and they want in.  Until they don't and they form "women's clubs", which are great for them, but suck for men.

I'm not naive or ignorant of the power dynamic involved, but the notion of the minority (in the general sense of the word, that is, those not in power) taking back power by implementing their own form of exclusion and control is an uncomfortable one for me.   It seems too easily abused. 

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #177 on: October 28, 2020, 09:39:20 AM »
The concept and idea of segregation of schools (and really, it applies anywhere) is a difficult one for me.  I balance between free will and intent, but even then it's not clear.   I do find it fascinating, though, how often humans decry a particular framework when it doesn't work for them, but readily embrace it when it does.    "Men's clubs" are great for men, but suck for women, and they want in.  Until they don't and they form "women's clubs", which are great for them, but suck for men.

I'm not naive or ignorant of the power dynamic involved, but the notion of the minority (in the general sense of the word, that is, those not in power) taking back power by implementing their own form of exclusion and control is an uncomfortable one for me.   It seems too easily abused.

Segregated Schools isn't the right term for it at all. I would say Private/Charter schools that PRIORITZE the black community. So, the question then becomes, who is gonna fund the Private/Charter Schools? The Black Celebs crying about injustice?

We do have a Native Charter school in Albuquerque, that prioritizes Native American Students. It's called Native American Community Academy. And it has a waiting list.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #178 on: October 28, 2020, 10:24:42 AM »
Part of the reason I've changed my stance on voucher programs is because I think they'll encourage, even more, self-segregating of the schools, and I think that's generally a good thing insofar as learning is concerned. In Dallas schools are already segregated. With a few exceptions Mexican kids go to public schools, black kids go to private schools, and white kids live in Frisco. When I was a lad they were trying to force integration, and it was a very scary thing.

The best argument I've seen for school segregation, at least of a sort, came from a particularly racist and corrupt county commissioner down here. He's the guy famous for getting butthurt when somebody mentioned black holes (why can't they be purple holes?). He did an interview with the whitest newscaster around which began with them attending services at his church. Afterward they discussed the experience, and despite both of them regularly attending Presbyterian churches, their services couldn't be any more different. Hers is solemn and dignified and his looked like the church from the Blues Brothers. He made this point do demonstrate very real sociological differences between their respective races, and made the argument that it's even more pronounced with youngsters. He suggested that black boys are going to interact better with black male teachers than little old white ladies¹, and in my experience this is absolutely correct.

Having said that, I also think that it's important that the lesson plans be the same across schools, regardless of who you're teaching. And as much as I'd like for those lessens to be neutral and non-biased, I don't think it's likely, or even possible. How are you going to explain BLM to kids in a perfectly neutral way? You'll wind up sounding like me talking my way out of a ticket. "Well, I suppose it's possible that perhaps somebody might have interpreted the officer's actions were of questionable "reasonableness," and therefore reacted in a way that they thought might be the way most likely to bring about the change they think might possibly be some sort of improvement.

Also, rest assured when Texas gets around to updating its history textbooks, BLM will feature predominately as a racist and terrorist organization responsible for rioting and looting based on irrational hatred of police and a desire to create a lawless society. They're probably already writing it. 


¹This is problematic because it forces a couple of questions that we as a society are incapable of discussing. One is the relative physiological and psychological differences between the races. John Wiley Price predicated his opinion on the idea that black kids are naturally more aggressive than white kids. Most people have the good sense to stay far away from that one. The other is whether or not it's reasonable to try and force black kids to behave more like white kids. This would necessitate qualifying those character traits.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #179 on: October 28, 2020, 11:14:19 AM »
The concept and idea of segregation of schools (and really, it applies anywhere) is a difficult one for me.  I balance between free will and intent, but even then it's not clear.   I do find it fascinating, though, how often humans decry a particular framework when it doesn't work for them, but readily embrace it when it does.    "Men's clubs" are great for men, but suck for women, and they want in.  Until they don't and they form "women's clubs", which are great for them, but suck for men.

I'm not naive or ignorant of the power dynamic involved, but the notion of the minority (in the general sense of the word, that is, those not in power) taking back power by implementing their own form of exclusion and control is an uncomfortable one for me.   It seems too easily abused.

Segregated Schools isn't the right term for it at all. I would say Private/Charter schools that PRIORITZE the black community. So, the question then becomes, who is gonna fund the Private/Charter Schools? The Black Celebs crying about injustice?

We do have a Native Charter school in Albuquerque, that prioritizes Native American Students. It's called Native American Community Academy. And it has a waiting list.

But - on the understanding that African Americans are human, and so subject to biases, mistakes and prejudice as any other human is - how do you counter the counter?   So the "black schools" are a prioritization of the black community, but if - just IF - they get it wrong, or out of perspective, do we have "white schools to "prioritize" the white community?   I get that the argument is "that's what we already have", but I think that's a specious argument.  We have neither now; there are biases on both sides, but they tend to water down the real truth.  The fact is, some of the historical actors ON BOTH SIDES were worse than we paint them to be, and some were better than we paint them to be.   "Prioritizing" black or white simply emphasizes those sides, it doesn't integrate them - literally or figuratively.  The truth has no color, has no bias. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #180 on: October 28, 2020, 11:19:48 AM »
Part of the reason I've changed my stance on voucher programs is because I think they'll encourage, even more, self-segregating of the schools, and I think that's generally a good thing insofar as learning is concerned. In Dallas schools are already segregated. With a few exceptions Mexican kids go to public schools, black kids go to private schools, and white kids live in Frisco. When I was a lad they were trying to force integration, and it was a very scary thing.

The best argument I've seen for school segregation, at least of a sort, came from a particularly racist and corrupt county commissioner down here. He's the guy famous for getting butthurt when somebody mentioned black holes (why can't they be purple holes?). He did an interview with the whitest newscaster around which began with them attending services at his church. Afterward they discussed the experience, and despite both of them regularly attending Presbyterian churches, their services couldn't be any more different. Hers is solemn and dignified and his looked like the church from the Blues Brothers. He made this point do demonstrate very real sociological differences between their respective races, and made the argument that it's even more pronounced with youngsters. He suggested that black boys are going to interact better with black male teachers than little old white ladies¹, and in my experience this is absolutely correct.

Having said that, I also think that it's important that the lesson plans be the same across schools, regardless of who you're teaching. And as much as I'd like for those lessens to be neutral and non-biased, I don't think it's likely, or even possible. How are you going to explain BLM to kids in a perfectly neutral way? You'll wind up sounding like me talking my way out of a ticket. "Well, I suppose it's possible that perhaps somebody might have interpreted the officer's actions were of questionable "reasonableness," and therefore reacted in a way that they thought might be the way most likely to bring about the change they think might possibly be some sort of improvement.

Also, rest assured when Texas gets around to updating its history textbooks, BLM will feature predominately as a racist and terrorist organization responsible for rioting and looting based on irrational hatred of police and a desire to create a lawless society. They're probably already writing it. 


¹This is problematic because it forces a couple of questions that we as a society are incapable of discussing. One is the relative physiological and psychological differences between the races. John Wiley Price predicated his opinion on the idea that black kids are naturally more aggressive than white kids. Most people have the good sense to stay far away from that one. The other is whether or not it's reasonable to try and force black kids to behave more like white kids. This would necessitate qualifying those character traits.

There's a Discover Magazine issue that did a piece on race, not just in America but generally, and one of the conclusions - among many - was that at that time (about 20, 25 years ago) we as a society weren't equipped to handle real truth about race.   We just weren't equipped for the possibility there WERE differences that were discernable, in terms of society or culture.   The discussion itself has become so charged that there's almost no possibility of discussing nuances like that without pre-judging the motives and intent of the participants, or having the information bastardized out of context and as you said in the Court thread, weaponized. 

I think there are benefits to both sides; I think the idea of "relating" is important, but I'm a proponent of the in-group and the out-group, and segregation works against that.   "Best friend" is a ridiculous phrase, but I've had close friends of multiple races since kindergarten, and so for me, the idea that a "race" is different is ludicrous.  There are simply good and bad actors, period.  We're doing a disservice to that idea, though, by our lack of focus, and our insistence that this "change" that can be mandated and not cultivated.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #181 on: October 28, 2020, 03:46:36 PM »

The best argument I've seen for school segregation, at least of a sort, came from a particularly racist and corrupt county commissioner down here. He's the guy famous for getting butthurt when somebody mentioned black holes (why can't they be purple holes?). He did an interview with the whitest newscaster around which began with them attending services at his church. Afterward they discussed the experience, and despite both of them regularly attending Presbyterian churches, their services couldn't be any more different. Hers is solemn and dignified and his looked like the church from the Blues Brothers. He made this point do demonstrate very real sociological differences between their respective races, and made the argument that it's even more pronounced with youngsters. He suggested that black boys are going to interact better with black male teachers than little old white ladies¹, and in my experience this is absolutely correct.

HAHA thats so fucking true. You have some Native kids when I was in school, actually making fun of the teacher in their language, I don't know their language but I know what they meant, or even taking advantage of them. If they had a stern Native Man there, than they'd be paying more attention.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #182 on: October 28, 2020, 08:17:22 PM »
Part of the reason I've changed my stance on voucher programs is because I think they'll encourage, even more, self-segregating of the schools, and I think that's generally a good thing insofar as learning is concerned. In Dallas schools are already segregated. With a few exceptions Mexican kids go to public schools, black kids go to private schools, and white kids live in Frisco. When I was a lad they were trying to force integration, and it was a very scary thing.

I think you and I talked a while back about segregation based on skills and goals, and that we are not all equal in our abilities, desires, and ambitions, so maybethinking that the young judge Smails of the world would go to one type of school, and the kids who would grow up to dig ditches would go to another. Was that you?

He suggested that black boys are going to interact better with black male teachers than little old white ladies¹, and in my experience this is absolutely correct.

I always chuckle when I think how my district touts the diversity of its staff, yet unless something changes my 9 year old will be taught by liberal-minded, 40+year old white ladies for the first 7 years of her education.

To your point, there is always a complaint that BIPOC (I'll just use that weird term for now) kids are not being taught by fellow BIPOCs, and that, yes,  black boys are going to interact better with black male teachers than little old white ladies. But we can't segregate forever, as those black boys are going to grow up to be young black men, and possibly working for a little old white lady at some point. We all need to be comfortable around all kinds of people. Reminds me of my wife's aunt, who, at 70+, after a recent dinner gathering at a friend's house, proclaimed "I've never sat down for dinner with a black man before."

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #183 on: November 02, 2020, 03:13:00 PM »
Speak of the devil:

President Trump installs commission to promote 'patriotic education,' counter 'radical' views of US history

Sure seems to me that starting from the basis of patriotism changes the focus from education to indoctrination.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #184 on: November 02, 2020, 08:13:37 PM »
Just teach people this and it should help...

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #185 on: November 07, 2020, 02:32:51 PM »
This is a really good listen by Boyce Watkins, he gives his thoughts on what can be done for Black People, now that Biden has been declared President-Elect.

Joe Biden is president - what does that mean for black people?
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline TAC

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #186 on: November 07, 2020, 05:20:22 PM »
This is a really good listen by Boyce Watkins, he gives his thoughts on what can be done for Black People, now that Biden has been declared President-Elect.

Joe Biden is president - what does that mean for black people?

WTF does he say? I lasted five minutes and he basically said he didn't care.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Adami

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #187 on: November 07, 2020, 05:24:47 PM »
This is a really good listen by Boyce Watkins, he gives his thoughts on what can be done for Black People, now that Biden has been declared President-Elect.

Joe Biden is president - what does that mean for black people?

WTF does he say? I lasted five minutes and he basically said he didn't care.

I skipped around and landed on a bit where it's about villages attacking each other, raping women, and killing men but keeping the gays around.

I got nothing. Wanna give us a few summaries so we don't have to listen to 30 minutes of weirdness?
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Offline H2

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #188 on: November 08, 2020, 10:04:20 PM »
Speak of the devil:

President Trump installs commission to promote 'patriotic education,' counter 'radical' views of US history

Sure seems to me that starting from the basis of patriotism changes the focus from education to indoctrination.
Def agree. His bashing of critical race theory was so satisfying. But the solution is not more govt-involved education.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #189 on: November 09, 2020, 09:33:36 AM »

I skipped around and landed on a bit where it's about villages attacking each other, raping women, and killing men but keeping the gays around.

I got nothing. Wanna give us a few summaries so we don't have to listen to 30 minutes of weirdness?


WTF does he say? I lasted five minutes and he basically said he didn't care.


These two quotes proved my point in we want everything "In the snap of the finger" and can't take the time or find the time, to listen to or read something that is quite long...

Here he explains it better than I can...

Quote
"The above firmly points the finger at technological progress and
globalization as the primary “culprits” responsible for greater
interdependence. In addition, they have created such a culture of immediacy
that it’s not an exaggeration to claim that, in today’s world, everything
moves much faster than before. If just one thing were to be singled out to
explain this astonishing increase in velocity, it would undoubtedly be the
internet. More than half (52%) of the world’s population is now online,
compared to less than 8% 20 years ago; in 2019, more than 1.5 billion
smartphones – a symbol and vector of velocity that allows us to be reached
anywhere and at any time – were sold around the world. The internet of
things (IoT) now connects 22 billion devices in real time, ranging from cars
to hospital beds, electric grids and water station pumps, to kitchen ovens
and agricultural irrigation systems. This number is expected to reach 50
billion or more in 2030. Other explanations for the rise in velocity point to
the “scarcity” element: as societies get richer, time becomes more valuable
and is therefore perceived as evermore scarce. This may explain studies
showing that people in wealthy cities always walk faster than in poor cities
– they have no time to lose! No matter what the causal explanation is, the
endgame of all this is clear: as consumers and producers, spouses and
parents, leaders and followers, we are all being subjected to constant, albeit
discontinuous, rapid change.
We can see velocity everywhere; whether it’s a crisis, social discontent,
technological developments and adoption, geopolitical upheaval, the
financial markets and, of course, the manifestation of infectious diseases –
everything now runs on fast-forward. As a result, we operate in a real-time
society, with the nagging feeling that the pace of life is ever increasing. This
new culture of immediacy, obsessed with speed, is apparent in all aspects of
our lives, from “just-in-time” supply chains to “high-frequency” trading,
from speed dating to fast food. It is so pervasive that some pundits call this
new phenomenon the “dictatorship of urgency”. It can indeed take extreme
forms. Research performed by scientists at Microsoft shows, for example,
that being slower by no more than 250 milliseconds (a quarter of a second)
is enough for a website to lose hits to its “faster” competitors! The allembracing result is that the shelf life of a policy, a product or an idea, and
the life cycle of a decision-maker or a project, are contracting sharply and
often unpredictably.


This is a really good listen by Boyce Watkins, he gives his thoughts on what can be done for Black People, now that Biden has been declared President-Elect.

Joe Biden is president - what does that mean for black people?

WTF does he say? I lasted five minutes and he basically said he didn't care.

You just reached the part where he talks about his Black Economics site...

Here's a timestap.  https://youtu.be/CM2s-T3LrUg?t=296
Saying, Black people need to educate themselves, instead of letting the white people teach them how to think. You have to remember, he's talking to the black people on what they can do to better themselves. These are things I listen and watch too, because they effect us, because they weren't the only ones persecuted by European Colonists.

These are things they are wanting to do for themselves, and don't want white people telling us how we should be teaching our children, our people, and determining how we should go about with, and let us be the ones to determine it for ourselves. Get it...That is all.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Adami

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #190 on: November 09, 2020, 09:57:06 AM »
Wanting everything in the snap of a finger?

My man, you have a history of posting videos of rather crazy fringe people voicing rather extreme views that almost none of us buy into except you. Why would I want to listen to more of that? If you like something someone says, tell us what he says.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #191 on: November 09, 2020, 10:35:43 AM »
Wanting everything in the snap of a finger?

My man, you have a history of posting videos of rather crazy fringe people voicing rather extreme views that almost none of us buy into except you. Why would I want to listen to more of that? If you like something someone says, tell us what he says.

Ok, cool. It doesn't interest you, but it could others who frequent this board. Or others may actually listen and then decide not to post about it. I post to generate discussion, while all you guys do is Attack the Messenger. You don't have to post and then can ignore it, like others have done, and other stuff I have posted is well ignored.

I will then now refrain from posting anymore insightful, other views, even if they are extreme, they still hold weight.

I don't agree with everything he says. But it's more of the concepts he talks about. Like what I just said in my post that you chose to not bring up, instead you brought up the Snap of The Finger things? Which wasn't about you or anyone here, but of how Society has become, in not wanting to take the time for things.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Adami

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #192 on: November 09, 2020, 11:45:09 AM »
You quoted me directly said it proves we want everything in the snap of a finger. That made it about me.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #193 on: November 09, 2020, 07:53:16 PM »
These are things they are wanting to do for themselves, and don't want white people telling us how we should be teaching our children, our people, and determining how we should go about with, and let us be the ones to determine it for ourselves.

Only addressing this comment, not the whole video which I haven't had a chance to watch... if we have reached this mentality in our country, we just might as well call everything off and Balkanize the whole nation.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #194 on: November 10, 2020, 08:41:11 PM »
These are things they are wanting to do for themselves, and don't want white people telling us how we should be teaching our children, our people, and determining how we should go about with, and let us be the ones to determine it for ourselves.

Only addressing this comment, not the whole video which I haven't had a chance to watch... if we have reached this mentality in our country, we just might as well call everything off and Balkanize the whole nation.

Yes we do need to Balkanize(Obviously a joke). The Least that could be done, we need to Redraw the maps of America to reflect the many Sovereign Native Nations and their Territories/Reservation Boundaries. People need to know that Once you are on Tribal Reservations, you are bound to those Tribal Laws, and those are different depending on the Tribe. Most people don't even know they are actually living within a Tribal Boundary line, or are passing through one. If you come here to New Mexico from Colorado, from San Lewis and go into Questa, as you follow that road, you pass through Taos, which is both the Native Reservation, and the Town of Taos is outside the Reservation, following that road south past the Gorge, you then come upon, Okay Owingeh, as you drive south you can pass by nearly all 19 Pueblos. If you were to get pulled over by the Tribal Police, you have to deal with The Tribal Courts, and if it's something worse it goes through BIA and the FEDS, that is if it occurs within Tribal Lands the state does not get involved. The only laws we abide by that aren't ours are Federal, and some Tribes follow the State laws for certain things.

You'd be amazed at the amount of people that live here, but have no idea whom we are, and anything about these laws, until it's too late, and they have to deal with Tribal Officials. Many of the Tribes here have posts before the Village Entrances that state what is not allowed on the reservation by Outside Visitors. Such as, NO Picture taking, NO Art Sketching, etc... Especially during Pueblo Feast Dances. You'll get your phone confiscated, may not get it returned, and have to pay a fine if caught. Most tourists don't bother and get all "I didn't know" when there are BIG SIGNS that states that. That is just to give us the Respect, and our right to our Live our Life in Privacy. Our life ways, and dances are not a show, you are allowed to visit and spectate, but have Respect for whom we are. That includes the many places within our Wildlife Areas, Forests, Deserts, and Ruins within America.


These are just the recognized Tribes



This is where, if we were to have boundary lines, the different Tribes would be:

 
"The map is available online and via the Native Land app (for both iOS and Android). Just type in your address, and you'll be able to see what indigenous group(s) once lived there or nearby. It's even possible members of that community still live in that area, though of course many native people were displaced, thanks to, uh, centuries of shitty federal policy."
https://mashable.com/article/indigenous-map-america/




I am telling you, The issue of Racism and Privilege isn't as simple as you guys think it is. To me, here in America, discussion of Privilege begins with the History of our Country. The truth of how America came to be. This is what they mean by Education Reform and "Rewriting History". It's getting to the truth. Privilege here is defined as the Colonial Mindset of "I claim this land, and all that lies within in the name of (insert King/Queen/Nobility)" They saw us as uncivilized and in turn regarded and considered us the same level as Cattle. While, they did have Cattle, and Horses to do some labor work, they instead opted to use the Native people to do the labor of the Cattle and Horses. Later on, when Native Populations Dwindled and the demand for labor grew, they Sent the Supply of African Slaves on over, thus bringing the African here to the American Continents.



I am giving you my perspective, as a Native man, and offering the Black perspectives, even if they are extreme they are still a perspective, I recognize we have extremists within the Native people as well.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 08:51:52 PM by Ben_Jamin »
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #195 on: November 10, 2020, 09:05:53 PM »
The Least that could be done, we need to Redraw the maps of America to reflect the many Sovereign Native Nations and their Territories/Reservation Boundaries. People need to know that Once you are on Tribal Reservations, you are bound to those Tribal Laws, and those are different depending on the Tribe.

Sounds reasonable. I have thoughts on this I need to formulate better, and it might be more appropriate for your thread on Natives.

I am telling you, The issue of Racism and Privilege isn't as simple as you guys think it is. To me, here in America, discussion of Privilege begins with the History of our Country. The truth of how America came to be. This is what they mean by Education Reform and "Rewriting History". It's getting to the truth. Privilege here is defined as the Colonial Mindset of "I claim this land, and all that lies within in the name of (insert King/Queen/Nobility)"

My comment was a bit in jest, but I am not trying to convey a feeling of this all being "simple." It has been decades since I've been in school, but I know we learned a lot about the history of the US, including all the bad stuff. If that isn't being taught now, or in some areas of the country, that is a shame. My school district has referenced this site from a link you posted (https://native-land.ca/) on more than one occasion.

At the same time, while I may be privileged by being a white male and I can recognize and acknowledge the evils of history, I do not want my existence to be characterized by the "colonial mindset" of centuries past, or by the sins of my ancestors.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #196 on: November 10, 2020, 11:46:27 PM »
Sounds reasonable. I have thoughts on this I need to formulate better, and it might be more appropriate for your thread on Natives.

I look foward to reading it. I don't expect quick responses to my posts really, on the threads I made. I want formative thoughts, those will help me better understand the perspective of what is called "The Other."


My comment was a bit in jest, but I am not trying to convey a feeling of this all being "simple." It has been decades since I've been in school, but I know we learned a lot about the history of the US, including all the bad stuff. If that isn't being taught now, or in some areas of the country, that is a shame. My school district has referenced this site from a link you posted (https://native-land.ca/) on more than one occasion.

At the same time, while I may be privileged by being a white male and I can recognize and acknowledge the evils of history, I do not want my existence to be characterized by the "colonial mindset" of centuries past, or by the sins of my ancestors.

Of course not. You may not be of that, and am grateful there are many that are not. It's more the Corporations, the businesses that are doing things we find detrimental to the Earth. We see ourselves as Protectors of the Earth, and see the damage to the Earth these Businesses have caused/are causing.

One way that I know darn well would help is Legalizing Hemp, doesn't have to be Cannabis, but the Hemp can be used for a lot of things these Corporations deplete the Natural Resources we are running out of, and need for other Natural Things, for example Trees give us Oxygen to Breathe, It's a big concern about the Amazon, and why we need to prevent the Corporations from developing there, and also the Grazing of Cattle from Farmlands also helped in the depletion of the Forest Trees. Earths Lungs.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #197 on: November 11, 2020, 10:23:27 AM »
This isn't about corporations.  They are a tool, a mechanism.

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #198 on: November 11, 2020, 07:25:02 PM »
This isn't about corporations.  They are a tool, a mechanism.

It is, when they are doing things that are detrimental to all life on Earth. They deem they have the Privilege to deplete the Natural Resources, regardless of who is living on that land, or whether it'll destroy the habitats of many other life forms. It messes with the Ecosystem, and it affects everything that surrounds it. It  trickles down like water soaking in a dry towel.

It's the same concept of Why the Europeans declared their Privilege to Slave People they saw as "Uncivilized". In other words, Not abiding by the way they Identify in Thought, and Way of Worship. People were considered "Uncivilized" if they didn't convert to the Catholic/Christian Philosophy, and were treated on the same level as their Domesticated Animals they used for Labor jobs, like Plowing Fields.

Who granted them the Privilege to claim and ownership?
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #199 on: November 12, 2020, 07:27:54 AM »
This isn't about corporations.  They are a tool, a mechanism.

It is, when they are doing things that are detrimental to all life on Earth. They deem they have the Privilege to deplete the Natural Resources, regardless of who is living on that land, or whether it'll destroy the habitats of many other life forms. It messes with the Ecosystem, and it affects everything that surrounds it. It  trickles down like water soaking in a dry towel.

It's the same concept of Why the Europeans declared their Privilege to Slave People they saw as "Uncivilized". In other words, Not abiding by the way they Identify in Thought, and Way of Worship. People were considered "Uncivilized" if they didn't convert to the Catholic/Christian Philosophy, and were treated on the same level as their Domesticated Animals they used for Labor jobs, like Plowing Fields.

Who granted them the Privilege to claim and ownership?

I think we're talking past each other here; I'm not suggesting that there's not a lack of respect - generally - for mother earth.  I'm saying that the corporations themselves aren't sentient.  They aren't an entity that is making decisions.  The people IN the company, making decisions based on metrics that don't encourage preservation, conservation and stewardship, are the issue.  The same people that make decisions at their job that harm the environment are the same people that take their kids to McDonald's on the weekend and dump their trash out the window on the ride home.   

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #200 on: November 12, 2020, 09:08:26 AM »
This isn't about corporations.  They are a tool, a mechanism.

It is, when they are doing things that are detrimental to all life on Earth. They deem they have the Privilege to deplete the Natural Resources, regardless of who is living on that land, or whether it'll destroy the habitats of many other life forms. It messes with the Ecosystem, and it affects everything that surrounds it. It  trickles down like water soaking in a dry towel.

It's the same concept of Why the Europeans declared their Privilege to Slave People they saw as "Uncivilized". In other words, Not abiding by the way they Identify in Thought, and Way of Worship. People were considered "Uncivilized" if they didn't convert to the Catholic/Christian Philosophy, and were treated on the same level as their Domesticated Animals they used for Labor jobs, like Plowing Fields.

Who granted them the Privilege to claim and ownership?

I think we're talking past each other here; I'm not suggesting that there's not a lack of respect - generally - for mother earth.  I'm saying that the corporations themselves aren't sentient.  They aren't an entity that is making decisions.  The people IN the company, making decisions based on metrics that don't encourage preservation, conservation and stewardship, are the issue.  The same people that make decisions at their job that harm the environment are the same people that take their kids to McDonald's on the weekend and dump their trash out the window on the ride home.

Well yeah. But they still represent the corporation. As the Corporation is the machine and those people are the Power Rangers running the Megazord.

In the same way, when you work for a company, you represent the company and are forced not to do things as it will Tarnish the company image, like having a Facebook.

So the CEOs, Zordons, should be telling the Power Rangers, "Why are you destroying Angel Grove and helping Rita."
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Adami

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #201 on: November 12, 2020, 09:16:58 AM »
This isn't about corporations.  They are a tool, a mechanism.

It is, when they are doing things that are detrimental to all life on Earth. They deem they have the Privilege to deplete the Natural Resources, regardless of who is living on that land, or whether it'll destroy the habitats of many other life forms. It messes with the Ecosystem, and it affects everything that surrounds it. It  trickles down like water soaking in a dry towel.

It's the same concept of Why the Europeans declared their Privilege to Slave People they saw as "Uncivilized". In other words, Not abiding by the way they Identify in Thought, and Way of Worship. People were considered "Uncivilized" if they didn't convert to the Catholic/Christian Philosophy, and were treated on the same level as their Domesticated Animals they used for Labor jobs, like Plowing Fields.

Who granted them the Privilege to claim and ownership?

I think we're talking past each other here; I'm not suggesting that there's not a lack of respect - generally - for mother earth.  I'm saying that the corporations themselves aren't sentient.  They aren't an entity that is making decisions.  The people IN the company, making decisions based on metrics that don't encourage preservation, conservation and stewardship, are the issue.  The same people that make decisions at their job that harm the environment are the same people that take their kids to McDonald's on the weekend and dump their trash out the window on the ride home.

Well yeah. But they still represent the corporation. As the Corporation is the machine and those people are the Power Rangers running the Megazord.

In the same way, when you work for a company, you represent the company and are forced not to do things as it will Tarnish the company image, like having a Facebook.

So the CEOs, Zordons, should be telling the Power Rangers, "Why are you destroying Angel Grove and helping Rita."

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #202 on: November 20, 2020, 08:07:13 AM »
Here's some Archived FBI files on The Creativity Movement. A Neo-Nazi, white supremacist group and religion.

https://archive.org/details/TheCreativityMovement/1363684-0_-_Section_5

Racism won't be abolished in our lifetime. It's our childrens, and thier children who will Abolish it.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #203 on: November 20, 2020, 09:54:59 AM »
Countering The Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys (1987) | Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu

This one is really informative. (It's entirely opposite of those extremist vids that I posted before)
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #204 on: January 19, 2021, 07:26:55 PM »
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, from Ta-Nehsi Coates on The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/ta-nehisi-coates-revisits-trump-first-white-president/617731/?utm_term=2021-01-19T23%3A11%3A30&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_source=twitter

Quote
It was popular, at the time of Donald Trump’s ascension, to stand on the thinnest of reeds in order to avoid stating the obvious. It was said that the Trump presidency was the fruit of “economic anxiety,” of trigger warnings and the push for trans rights. We were told that it was wrong to call Trump a white supremacist, because he had merely “drawn upon their themes.”

Oh it's still popular with some people

Quote
One hopes that after four years of brown children in cages; of attempts to invalidate the will of Black voters in Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Detroit; of hearing Trump tell congresswomen of color to go back where they came from; of claims that Joe Biden would turn Minnesota into “a refugee camp”; of his constant invocations of “the Chinese virus,” we can now safely conclude that Trump believes in a world where white people are—or should be—on top. It is still deeply challenging for so many people to accept the reality of what has happened—that a country has been captured by the worst of its history, while millions of Americans cheered this on.


Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #205 on: January 19, 2021, 08:24:33 PM »
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, from Ta-Nehsi Coates on The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/ta-nehisi-coates-revisits-trump-first-white-president/617731/?utm_term=2021-01-19T23%3A11%3A30&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_source=twitter

Quote
It was popular, at the time of Donald Trump’s ascension, to stand on the thinnest of reeds in order to avoid stating the obvious. It was said that the Trump presidency was the fruit of “economic anxiety,” of trigger warnings and the push for trans rights. We were told that it was wrong to call Trump a white supremacist, because he had merely “drawn upon their themes.”

Oh it's still popular with some people

Quote
One hopes that after four years of brown children in cages; of attempts to invalidate the will of Black voters in Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Detroit; of hearing Trump tell congresswomen of color to go back where they came from; of claims that Joe Biden would turn Minnesota into “a refugee camp”; of his constant invocations of “the Chinese virus,” we can now safely conclude that Trump believes in a world where white people are—or should be—on top. It is still deeply challenging for so many people to accept the reality of what has happened—that a country has been captured by the worst of its history, while millions of Americans cheered this on.


Oh, believe me, that is not just Donald Trump that believes this, and as a matter in fact, there are people that are much worse than Trump, and I would not want those people in office at all, good thing they're not that power hungry to want to run, yet. It's basically what I call the "European Mindset of Colonialism" where they self-proclaimed themselves as the knower of all things, and the one that holds all truths, and that their way is the right and only way, therefore everyone shall assimilate to my way of thinking and living.

There are people that still hold this belief. And any race is capable of having this Mindset of dominance, "My way is the right way, and all other ways are wrong."

I quite like the way they cleverly worded that sentence though...."Trump believes in a world where white people ARE-Or should be-on top"

Like how they're saying he believes White People are on top, and that is a true statement. But then they slyly add in the "Or should" which now makes it that he believes white people should be on top, as if they are not, making him about White Power. I would've worded it..."Trump believes in a world where white people are, and should remain, on top."


These kinds of articles I really look at the words and how they use these words in the sentence, and also the sentence structure like the one I quoted. But my god, that is some intense wording and sentence structure. I applaud for that effort.


Quote
But more telling, Trump is also the first president to have publicly affirmed that his daughter is a “piece of ass.” The mind seizes trying to imagine a black man extolling the virtues of sexual assault on tape (“When you’re a star, they let you do it”), fending off multiple accusations of such assaults, immersed in multiple lawsuits for allegedly fraudulent business dealings, exhorting his followers to violence, and then strolling into the White House.

I sure hope he also addresses how Popular Black Music Artists are dominated by this very sexualization, and are popular and seen as idols among the minority communities. And also that minorities are very dependent on that very government that is ruled by White Supremacy.




 
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #206 on: January 20, 2021, 07:28:43 AM »
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, from Ta-Nehsi Coates on The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/ta-nehisi-coates-revisits-trump-first-white-president/617731/?utm_term=2021-01-19T23%3A11%3A30&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_source=twitter

Quote
It was popular, at the time of Donald Trump’s ascension, to stand on the thinnest of reeds in order to avoid stating the obvious. It was said that the Trump presidency was the fruit of “economic anxiety,” of trigger warnings and the push for trans rights. We were told that it was wrong to call Trump a white supremacist, because he had merely “drawn upon their themes.”

Oh it's still popular with some people

Quote
One hopes that after four years of brown children in cages; of attempts to invalidate the will of Black voters in Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Detroit; of hearing Trump tell congresswomen of color to go back where they came from; of claims that Joe Biden would turn Minnesota into “a refugee camp”; of his constant invocations of “the Chinese virus,” we can now safely conclude that Trump believes in a world where white people are—or should be—on top. It is still deeply challenging for so many people to accept the reality of what has happened—that a country has been captured by the worst of its history, while millions of Americans cheered this on.

And neither side is 100% right on this point; I have made that former argument in the past (and still think there is truth there).  But that doesn't serve the narrative.    And given that there were far more communities of color that he DIDN'T go after than he did, reason says he didn't invalidate the votes in Atlanta, Philadelphia and Detroit because they were black voters, he invalidated them because they weren't for HIM. Because they denied him is primary objective. He doesn't (necessarily; I'm not in his head) invoke "Chinese virus" because "whites are better", he does it because it allows him to pass blame.   If that virus came from Canada, he'd be calling it that "Canad virus", and you know that.    Not saying there is NOTHING that can't be interpreted through the lens of race, but as a general proposition, "to a hammer, everything is a nail".  It's a variation on Occam's Razor; those are not unreasonable arguments, but there are far more basic, more plausible explanations than this complicated over-arching viewpoint on "race" from a guy that has shown absolutely zero evidence of "over-arching" ANYTHING other than himself.


And of course, it should go without saying, but it unfortunately cannot:  just because you DID cheer doesn't mean you're complicit in any aspects that were race-related.   I've been extremely critical of China over the past 8 to 10 years, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with skin color or race; it DOES have to do with the fact that I was part of a joint venture with them about 10 years ago and they literally stole all our intellectual property without even blinking an eye; it DOES have to do with they have no interest in being a trading partner, or a co-leader in geopolitical issues facing our globe; it DOES have to do with them having zero interest in participating fairly in global initiatives like climate change.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 07:49:43 AM by Stadler »

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #207 on: January 22, 2021, 06:27:40 PM »
Not sure if this goes here, but has been gnawing at me for a while.

So the past few years around this time, the sports world laments the lack of minorities hired for HC/OC jobs in the NFL, claiming a very low level of representation. This is followed up by calls that "we must do something about this." And where I am stuck is what we are to do about it. If NFL owner Reginald Oil Mangate IV wants to hire his golfing partner and personal masseur Frederick Frat Brother Farthington as his HC, who has less experience than other more qualified minority candidates, what are we to do about it? What should we do about it?
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Offline TAC

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #208 on: January 22, 2021, 06:59:19 PM »
NFL owner Reginald Oil Mangate IV

 :rollin :rollin
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #209 on: January 22, 2021, 08:37:40 PM »
Not sure if this goes here, but has been gnawing at me for a while.

So the past few years around this time, the sports world laments the lack of minorities hired for HC/OC jobs in the NFL, claiming a very low level of representation. This is followed up by calls that "we must do something about this." And where I am stuck is what we are to do about it. If NFL owner Reginald Oil Mangate IV wants to hire his golfing partner and personal masseur Frederick Frat Brother Farthington as his HC, who has less experience than other more qualified minority candidates, what are we to do about it? What should we do about it?

Shouldn't that be exactly what can be done about it. Rather then getting riled up at the NFL itself, why don't they start lambasting the owners for not hiring minorities, and their friends instead.

But then, they own that team, and they can say, you know what screw it, it's done. And no more football team, unless someone buys it from the owner.

I don't see why a minority entrepreneur, can't start up a football team of their own. Why don't these minority celebrities donate or help fund that minority entrepreneur and help them get a minority owned football team started. What is stopping them from doing that?

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I