Author Topic: Racism and Privilege  (Read 14200 times)

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Offline lonestar

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #246 on: March 19, 2021, 09:06:11 AM »
The use of the term 'whores' in reference to these ladies really doesn't help the situation. There's a gross negative connotation to the term, as well as a dehumanizing and misogynistic effect. I'd imagine as the dipshit was shooting them, the term was running through his head as well.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #247 on: March 19, 2021, 09:12:51 AM »
The first and third show a stark contrast in the right and wrong way to make a statement. One is propaganda and one is a well crafted statement to show support and sympathy without rabble-rousing assumptions and generalizations.

Quote
“Given the appearance that these murders were racially-motivated, there are few words that can describe the grief many of us feel at this moment—grief that is matched only by the outrage of seeing the consequences of weaponized xenophobia. Make no mistake: this is as much a tragic culmination, as it is a foreseeable outcome of hate and misogyny left unchecked."

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“Regardless of the motive, the effect of this shooting on our communities is clear. Our hearts go out to all those who are experiencing deep feelings of grief and anger.”

This horrific tragedy occurs in the context of an escalation of violence against the Asian American community and a year-long wave of anti-Asian hate and bias. We encourage members of the community to express and acknowledge the feelings and trauma they may be experiencing right now.

Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #248 on: March 19, 2021, 09:16:42 AM »
The use of the term 'whores' in reference to these ladies really doesn't help the situation. There's a gross negative connotation to the term, as well as a dehumanizing and misogynistic effect. I'd imagine as the dipshit was shooting them, the term was running through his head as well.
Which is why I used the term. When referring to his motivations I was using his (and Maggot's) point of view. Your point is well taken, though. I tend to assume that people just understand my style and how I write things.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #249 on: March 19, 2021, 09:22:30 AM »
The use of the term 'whores' in reference to these ladies really doesn't help the situation. There's a gross negative connotation to the term, as well as a dehumanizing and misogynistic effect. I'd imagine as the dipshit was shooting them, the term was running through his head as well.
Which is why I used the term. When referring to his motivations I was using his (and Maggot's) point of view. Your point is well taken, though. I tend to assume that people just understand my style and how I write things.

Gotcha, apologies for assuming the wrong context bud.


Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that when they finally interview the survivor (if they haven't already, not sure how seriously injured he was) , that this asshole didn't shout 'die Chinese whore' as he was blowing them away.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #250 on: March 19, 2021, 09:58:31 AM »
Frustrated at where we've evolved to. 

There are a couple posts in the COVID thread (non-PR version) where we're laughing/mocking/shaking our heads at people who just aren't listening to FACTS, and are drawing their own conclusions regardless, based on their feelings and/or their agenda.

So, here in CT, the recent attacks in Georgia have been getting a lot of airtime, to the point that my local station had to do a special fact-check session (they call it "We Verify!") about the events.

So they run through the FACTS, as we know them, and play a tape of the Atlanta Police representative (I don't know if he's the chief or not) saying that the suspect has been clear that race was NOT a motive, and that the suspect indicated he did it to deal with his sex addiction (the spas were, apparently, a temptation for him).  Then he said that they would be doing more investigation, since "it was too early in the investigation to draw any conclusions".   The next segment was my Attorney General - William Tong - responding generally to attacks on Asian-Americans, but very clearly and very specifically stating that the attacks in Georgia were racially motivated.  He appeared on CNN as well, making a similar case.

Now, look, this isn't about the subject matter; hate crimes in 2020 were down overall by about 7%, but against the Asian-American community they were up almost 150% (many suggest this is a result of misinformation regarding the origins of the COVID virus). That's got to end, and we must address that disparity. It's just ignorance. But why the fast and loose with the facts? Why does the fact that some agree this is a worthy cause justify the glossing over of fundamentals of truth to make the point?

If "moral certainty" about our cause is enough to trump truth (and I use that word very specifically), where does it end?  Why does truth even matter at that point?

Kind of funny I ended up coming to this thread after responding on the coronavirus thread that it's Truth.



It's a weird case for sure. You have a man who likely can't get any from anyone, so he has to resort to going to these types of places and paying for it. Probably no free-roaming whores around, but there are these places whom house these said "whores" he's looking for. They just happen to be Asian based, and these women are very likely Sex Slave workers.

Being in sexual frustration, he goes and when these people won't give him what his addiction craves, he goes and shoots them. If he didn't have a gun, he likely would've strangled them or found some other way to vent his frustration.

an Addiction is still an addiction, and you will do many many things just to fill the craving from the addiction, drugs, gambling, and sex.

I do not think it is racially motivated. But race does play a factor in whom work these types of places. And it should expose people to these businesses that employ sex slave workers.

It's unfortunate that the people whom work these places tend to be Asian women.



And also...it's exposing how media can control a narrative.

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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #251 on: March 19, 2021, 10:11:57 AM »
1. There is a racial component to whom is involved in sex work. The Asian sex worker is a pretty well worn trope and a common joke in a lot of media.

2. The Asian population of the town is around 450 people based on the latest census data. With a community that small, there is a reasonable probability a sizeable proportion knew at least one of the victims. In that respect it does not really matter what the "motivation" was. This was still a catastrophic attack on their community, and as a minority that is subject to stereotyping and racist abuse, I don't blame them for focusing on that aspect.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #252 on: March 19, 2021, 10:48:57 AM »
The use of the term 'whores' in reference to these ladies really doesn't help the situation. There's a gross negative connotation to the term, as well as a dehumanizing and misogynistic effect. I'd imagine as the dipshit was shooting them, the term was running through his head as well.
Which is why I used the term. When referring to his motivations I was using his (and Maggot's) point of view. Your point is well taken, though. I tend to assume that people just understand my style and how I write things.

Gotcha, apologies for assuming the wrong context bud.


Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that when they finally interview the survivor (if they haven't already, not sure how seriously injured he was) , that this asshole didn't shout 'die Chinese whore' as he was blowing them away.

And if he just shouted out "die, whore!"?  Or just "die!"?  None of them would really "surprise" me, that's not the point.  El Barto made the key point above:  one of those statements above started "GIVEN THE APPEARANCE..." and one started "REGARDLESS....".  That's it in a concise way.  It's NOT a "given", unless you're predisposed to see that, and any emotion we might feel ought to be independent of whether you do or not.

I don't understand why anything less than 'intolerance of assumed intolerance' is now "insensitive" or worse.

EDIT: And just so's the message is crystal clear to the hater(s), I thought this was a perfect balance:  "We're not clear yet on the motive, but I do want to say to our Asian America community that we stand with you," Vice President Kamala Harris said."  As was this (cite is the same article):   "Biden said Wednesday: "Whatever the motivation here, I know Asian Americans, they are very concerned, because, as you know, I have been speaking about the brutality against Asian Americans, and it's troubling. But I am making no connection at this moment to the motivation of the killer. ... I'll have more to say when the investigation is completed.""

Sensitive, aware, caring, and yet not succumbing to the narrative, or suspending due process.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 10:58:37 AM by Stadler »

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #253 on: March 19, 2021, 11:08:11 AM »
Basically it all comes down to this...

All races have had some form of prejudice done against them. In this case, in America, It was done mainly by the Dominant White/European people. And now, the tides have shifted and these White/European are now the ones experiencing these prejudices, not just from one race, but from the myriad of races. This is the effect this generation of White/Europeans are feeling for their Ancestors choices and decisions. The current, White/European generations in America, are paying for their Ancestors decisions and choices.

It's why we say...What is done today, effects the future generations, and not you in the present. If you don't want your children to struggle, what are you going to do to help them live a life of liberty and happiness.

Racism, also isn't just from one racial group. Racism exists in every race. I have seen it, Blacks being that way towards Asians. Asians, towards blacks, Native towards asian and black, and all possible combinations.

What is focused on is the White/Europeans only because they were the main ones whom dominate the world and we are currently living their lifestyle because of the world dominance. Christianity and Catholicism are just one of many religions and ways of belief. They were just forceful in their beliefs. And now it's the current climate and habitat of our environment.








I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Online jingle.boy

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #254 on: March 19, 2021, 11:14:35 AM »
Someone mark the date and time ... Stadler gave props to BOTH Joe and Kamala ... IN THE SAME POST!!! 

WITHOUT A CAVEAT!!!!!

 :rollin  :rollin

P.S. you know I love ya, Stads.
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I'll do my best, but this? The guy's getting Llamathrust.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #255 on: March 19, 2021, 11:19:01 AM »
I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape over the "it was a really bad day for him" remark. Actually, I do, and it's more than a little concerning. The sheriff wasn't trying to diminish what this jackass did, nor was he trying to be sympathetic to him. His remarks were focused quite clearly on what this idiot's motivation was, and that he was having a pretty bad day is very relevant to that point. Crucial, in fact. Given the context, it seems pretty clear to me that the sheriff was suggesting that he was in crisis mode and fell apart the day before. But therein lies the problem. As I've been saying for years, Americans have little interest in context. What somebody says, and why they say it is totally irrelevant as compared to how we can weaponize the words they used.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #256 on: March 19, 2021, 11:31:17 AM »
I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape over the "it was a really bad day for him" remark. Actually, I do, and it's more than a little concerning. The sheriff wasn't trying to diminish what this jackass did, nor was he trying to be sympathetic to him. His remarks were focused quite clearly on what this idiot's motivation was, and that he was having a pretty bad day is very relevant to that point. Crucial, in fact. Given the context, it seems pretty clear to me that the sheriff was suggesting that he was in crisis mode and fell apart the day before. But therein lies the problem. As I've been saying for years, Americans have little interest in context. What somebody says, and why they say it is totally irrelevant as compared to how we can weaponize the words they used.

Because Americans believe in everything the media tells them as factual and truthful. And that includes Social Media. The issue is many people are now getting their news and information through Facebook and Twitter. Hardly anyone gets their news from CNN, NBC, or MSNBC. And in turn, these media outlets are getting news from Twitter and Facebook posts. They are turning ONE Twitter post into a story. They are manipulating and exacerbating one 100 word twitter tweet into a news headline. And they do this by pulling at the heartstrings of the people.

As these Media outlets turn these tweets into headlines, and since people get their information and news through Facebook and Twitter, they now can control the narratives based on Facebook and Twitter, and use the mob to affect more peoples thoughts by getting them with their emotions.

What we are seeing are Emotions being played and manipulated. So when you don't feel the same emotions, you are considered heartless and unempathetic, and are shunned and banned.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline lonestar

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #257 on: March 19, 2021, 11:36:58 AM »
I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman. That to me was just a bit of him slipping through. I do take note of his posting China virus shirts with the caption 'get em while they're hot' but whatever.


A few other issues this one is going to eventually bring out, and that I'm seeing already...

Dipshit was taken into custody without incident, after rampaging through eight victims. Wonder if he got fast food like that other dipshit a few years back?

Also, he bought the gun that morning. Definitely will be discussed ad nauseum.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #258 on: March 19, 2021, 11:53:05 AM »
I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman. That to me was just a bit of him slipping through. I do take note of his posting China virus shirts with the caption 'get em while they're hot' but whatever.
But that still implies there was something wrong with what he said. There wasn't. I'm not sure I would have phrased it any differently. It was a useful and relevant detail to the guy's motivation, which is what he's being asked to describe.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #259 on: March 19, 2021, 12:00:56 PM »
I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape over the "it was a really bad day for him" remark. Actually, I do, and it's more than a little concerning. The sheriff wasn't trying to diminish what this jackass did, nor was he trying to be sympathetic to him. His remarks were focused quite clearly on what this idiot's motivation was, and that he was having a pretty bad day is very relevant to that point. Crucial, in fact. Given the context, it seems pretty clear to me that the sheriff was suggesting that he was in crisis mode and fell apart the day before. But therein lies the problem. As I've been saying for years, Americans have little interest in context. What somebody says, and why they say it is totally irrelevant as compared to how we can weaponize the words they used.

Because Americans believe in everything the media tells them as factual and truthful. And that includes Social Media. The issue is many people are now getting their news and information through Facebook and Twitter. Hardly anyone gets their news from CNN, NBC, or MSNBC. And in turn, these media outlets are getting news from Twitter and Facebook posts. They are turning ONE Twitter post into a story. They are manipulating and exacerbating one 100 word twitter tweet into a news headline. And they do this by pulling at the heartstrings of the people.

As these Media outlets turn these tweets into headlines, and since people get their information and news through Facebook and Twitter, they now can control the narratives based on Facebook and Twitter, and use the mob to affect more peoples thoughts by getting them with their emotions.

What we are seeing are Emotions being played and manipulated. So when you don't feel the same emotions, you are considered heartless and unempathetic, and are shunned and banned.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you wrote, but I have no idea how it's supposed to relate to my point. America's dislike of context goes back at least as far as 1994 and all of that "N-word" nonsense, which in and of itself was a subjective weaponization of language. While the media may well have done a small bit to misrepresent the sheriff's words, that's more an example of playing to the audience that only wants support for its own interpretation. That audience existed well before Twitter and Facebook.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #260 on: March 19, 2021, 12:18:54 PM »
I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape over the "it was a really bad day for him" remark. Actually, I do, and it's more than a little concerning. The sheriff wasn't trying to diminish what this jackass did, nor was he trying to be sympathetic to him. His remarks were focused quite clearly on what this idiot's motivation was, and that he was having a pretty bad day is very relevant to that point. Crucial, in fact. Given the context, it seems pretty clear to me that the sheriff was suggesting that he was in crisis mode and fell apart the day before. But therein lies the problem. As I've been saying for years, Americans have little interest in context. What somebody says, and why they say it is totally irrelevant as compared to how we can weaponize the words they used.

Because Americans believe in everything the media tells them as factual and truthful. And that includes Social Media. The issue is many people are now getting their news and information through Facebook and Twitter. Hardly anyone gets their news from CNN, NBC, or MSNBC. And in turn, these media outlets are getting news from Twitter and Facebook posts. They are turning ONE Twitter post into a story. They are manipulating and exacerbating one 100 word twitter tweet into a news headline. And they do this by pulling at the heartstrings of the people.

As these Media outlets turn these tweets into headlines, and since people get their information and news through Facebook and Twitter, they now can control the narratives based on Facebook and Twitter, and use the mob to affect more peoples thoughts by getting them with their emotions.

Well, that's just it; it's a circle, a cycle.  If you have a media that is now focused almost solely on eye-balls, clicks, and likes, what better way to capitalize on that than to regurgitate what gets those likes?   If I'm invested in having readership/viewership, and I see a tweet that is factually 100% accurate and gets 50,000 likes, but I see a tweet that is, eh, largely factual, but maybe slips into op-ed, or maybe uses unsubstantiated language, and gets 1,000,000 likes, which am I going to use?   Then that gets circulated, and the NEXT 1,000,000 eye-balls take that for the gospel story, and we spiral from there.   We're DEEP in that now; opinion pieces are regularly put forth as "hard news" and it's dismaying.

Quote
What we are seeing are Emotions being played and manipulated. So when you don't feel the same emotions, you are considered heartless and unempathetic, and are shunned and banned.

Wow, it's funny; I was thinking that exact same thing this morning in the shower - that we've gotten to the point that we're demanding equal emotional responses in order to judge fitness.  Look at Xe; he even used "insensitive" as a perjorative, when in fact he couldn't be further from the truth.  I am heartbroken that people died needlessly.  I'm just unwilling to attribute "guilt" based on "assumption".   That not only shouldn't be ridiculed, but in a nation of laws - remember that? Wasn't that the RESPONSE to Trump? "We're a nation of laws"? - that should be celebrated.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #261 on: March 19, 2021, 12:20:06 PM »
Long read and Copied/pasted from a journalist I follow on FB. She is great - look up Heather Cox Richardson if you're interested. She does a great job of giving large picture context on current events.

Quote
On Tuesday, in Georgia, a gunman murdered 1 man and 7 women, at three spas, and wounded another man. All three of the businesses were operating legally, according to Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, and had not previously come to the attention of the Atlanta Police Department, although all three had  been reviewed by an erotic review site. The man apprehended for the murders was 21-year-old Robert Aaron Long, who is described as deeply religious. Six of the women killed were of Asian descent.
Yesterday, at the news conference about the killings, the sheriff’s captain who was acting as a spokesman about the case, Jay Baker, told reporters that Long was “pretty much fed up and kind of at the end of his rope. Yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did.” The spokesman went on to say that the suspect “apparently has an issue, what he considers a sex addiction,” that had spurred him to murder, and that it was too early to tell if the incident was a “hate crime.” Long told law enforcement officers that the murders were “not racially motivated.” He was, he said, trying to “help” other people with sex addictions.
Journalists quickly discovered that Baker had posted on Facebook a picture of a shirt calling COVID-19 an “IMPORTED VIRUS FROM CHY-NA.”
As Baker’s Facebook post indicated, the short-term history behind the shooting is the former president’s attacks on China, in which he drew out the pronunciation of the name to make it sound like a schoolyard insult.
The story behind Trump’s attacks on China was his desperate determination to be reelected in 2020. In 2018, the former president placed tariffs on Chinese goods to illustrate his commitment to make the U.S. “a much stronger, much richer nation.” The tariffs led to a trade war with China and, rather than building a much stronger nation, resulted in a dramatic fall in agricultural exports. Agricultural exports to China fell from $15.8 billion in 2017 to $5.9 billion in 2018.
To combat the growing unrest in the agricultural regions of the country, where farm bankruptcies grew by nearly 20% in 2019, Trump paid off farmers hurt by the tariff with subsidies, which made up more than one third of U.S. farm income in 2020. In June 2019, he also begged Chinese President Xi Jinping to help him win the 2020 election. He told him that farmers were important to his election prospects, and begged Xi to buy more soybeans and wheat from U.S. farmers.
In January 2020, Trump and Chinese Vice Premier Liu He signed a deal that cut some U.S. tariffs in exchange for Chinese promises to buy more agricultural products, as well as some other adjustments between the two countries. On January 22, Trump tweeted: ““One of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!”
But, of course, the novel coronavirus was beginning to ravage the world.
On January 24, Trump tweeted: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Five days later, at a signing ceremony, he said: “I think our relationship with China now might be the best it's been in a long, long time.”
On February 7, Trump called journalist Bob Woodward and said of the coronavirus, “This is deadly stuff. You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed…. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu.” Still, on February 10, he told supporters in New Hampshire that the coronavirus would “miraculously” go away when the weather got warmer, and in mid-February, he defended Xi’s handling of the epidemic, saying China was working hard and “doing a very good job” and that they “have everything under control.”
Shortly after the U.S. shut down to combat the pandemic in mid-March, Trump began to turn on China. On March 22, after 33,000 Americans had tested positive for the virus and 421 had died of it, Trump seemed to think better of his praise for Xi. He insisted that China had not told him about the deadly nature of the virus, and began to call it the “Chinese virus,” or the “Chy-na virus.”
By April 17, a Republican strategy document urged candidates to deflect attention from the nation’s disastrous coronavirus news by attacking China, which “caused this pandemic by covering it up, lying, and hoarding the world’s supply of medical equipment…. China… has stolen millions of American jobs, [and] sent fentanyl to the United States.” Democrats would not stand up to China, the document told Republican candidates to say, but “I will stand up to China, bring our manufacturing jobs back home, and push for sanctions on China for its role in spreading this pandemic.” 
In May, Trump announced the U.S. would leave the World Health Organization because it had been too easy on China in the early days of the pandemic.
To undercut his own association with China, Trump somewhat nonsensically tried to link his Democratic opponent, Joe Biden, to China. He claimed—falsely—that China had paid Biden’s son, Hunter, $1.5 billion. He and his appointees Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe, Attorney General William Barr, and National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien, all claimed—again falsely-- that China was interfering in the election to help Biden.
This week, the intelligence community reported that, in fact, China did not try to influence the election because it did not “view either election outcome as being advantageous enough for China to risk getting caught meddling.”
As Trump politicized the pandemic and attacked China, hate crimes against Asian-Americans began to rise; there were about 3800 of them between March 19, 2020 and February 28, 2021. In cities, hate incidents increased by 150%.
In this context, the suggestion of a police spokesman who had posted pictures celebrating a shirt that called Covid-19 the “VIRUS IMPORTED FROM CHY-NA” that a gunman had killed six women of Asian descent because he had had “a really bad day,” along with the officer’s apparent acceptance of Long’s statement that the killings were not racially motivated, outraged observers.
That seemingly cavalier dismissal of the dead while accepting the words of the white murderer seemed to personify an American history that has discriminated against Asians since the California legislature slapped a Foreign Miners’ Tax on Chinese miners in 1850, just a year after they began to arrive in California. Discriminatory laws and violence from their white neighbors plagued Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, Vietnamese, and all Asian immigrants as they moved to the U.S.
Discrimination and hatred have continued to plague their descendants.
The rise in anti-Asian violence has been so bad this year that a subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee had planned a hearing today on hate crimes against Asian Americans even before the murders. Representative Doris Matsui (D-CA) today condemned the recent uptick in violence, but pointed out that discrimination is hardly new. “There is a systemic problem here,” she said. Of Japanese descent, she noted that she was born during WWII in an internment camp in Arizona.
Asian American women have borne a dual burden of both racism and sexism, as certain men fetishize Asian and Asian American women, seeing them as submissive, exotic, and sexually available. Attackers aimed nearly 70% of the reported 3,800 hate incidents reported last year at women.
That Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses ties into a long history that links racism to sexism—and to violence— in a peculiarly American fashion.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #262 on: March 19, 2021, 12:43:02 PM »
Long read and Copied/pasted from a journalist I follow on FB. She is great - look up Heather Cox Richardson if you're interested. She does a great job of giving large picture context on current events.

Quote
On Tuesday, in Georgia, a gunman murdered 1 man and 7 women, at three spas, and wounded another man. All three of the businesses were operating legally, according to Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, and had not previously come to the attention of the Atlanta Police Department, although all three had  been reviewed by an erotic review site. The man apprehended for the murders was 21-year-old Robert Aaron Long, who is described as deeply religious. Six of the women killed were of Asian descent.
Yesterday, at the news conference about the killings, the sheriff’s captain who was acting as a spokesman about the case, Jay Baker, told reporters that Long was “pretty much fed up and kind of at the end of his rope. Yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did.” The spokesman went on to say that the suspect “apparently has an issue, what he considers a sex addiction,” that had spurred him to murder, and that it was too early to tell if the incident was a “hate crime.” Long told law enforcement officers that the murders were “not racially motivated.” He was, he said, trying to “help” other people with sex addictions.
Journalists quickly discovered that Baker had posted on Facebook a picture of a shirt calling COVID-19 an “IMPORTED VIRUS FROM CHY-NA.”
As Baker’s Facebook post indicated, the short-term history behind the shooting is the former president’s attacks on China, in which he drew out the pronunciation of the name to make it sound like a schoolyard insult.
The story behind Trump’s attacks on China was his desperate determination to be reelected in 2020. In 2018, the former president placed tariffs on Chinese goods to illustrate his commitment to make the U.S. “a much stronger, much richer nation.” The tariffs led to a trade war with China and, rather than building a much stronger nation, resulted in a dramatic fall in agricultural exports. Agricultural exports to China fell from $15.8 billion in 2017 to $5.9 billion in 2018.
To combat the growing unrest in the agricultural regions of the country, where farm bankruptcies grew by nearly 20% in 2019, Trump paid off farmers hurt by the tariff with subsidies, which made up more than one third of U.S. farm income in 2020. In June 2019, he also begged Chinese President Xi Jinping to help him win the 2020 election. He told him that farmers were important to his election prospects, and begged Xi to buy more soybeans and wheat from U.S. farmers.
In January 2020, Trump and Chinese Vice Premier Liu He signed a deal that cut some U.S. tariffs in exchange for Chinese promises to buy more agricultural products, as well as some other adjustments between the two countries. On January 22, Trump tweeted: ““One of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!”
But, of course, the novel coronavirus was beginning to ravage the world.
On January 24, Trump tweeted: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Five days later, at a signing ceremony, he said: “I think our relationship with China now might be the best it's been in a long, long time.”
On February 7, Trump called journalist Bob Woodward and said of the coronavirus, “This is deadly stuff. You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed…. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu.” Still, on February 10, he told supporters in New Hampshire that the coronavirus would “miraculously” go away when the weather got warmer, and in mid-February, he defended Xi’s handling of the epidemic, saying China was working hard and “doing a very good job” and that they “have everything under control.”
Shortly after the U.S. shut down to combat the pandemic in mid-March, Trump began to turn on China. On March 22, after 33,000 Americans had tested positive for the virus and 421 had died of it, Trump seemed to think better of his praise for Xi. He insisted that China had not told him about the deadly nature of the virus, and began to call it the “Chinese virus,” or the “Chy-na virus.”
By April 17, a Republican strategy document urged candidates to deflect attention from the nation’s disastrous coronavirus news by attacking China, which “caused this pandemic by covering it up, lying, and hoarding the world’s supply of medical equipment…. China… has stolen millions of American jobs, [and] sent fentanyl to the United States.” Democrats would not stand up to China, the document told Republican candidates to say, but “I will stand up to China, bring our manufacturing jobs back home, and push for sanctions on China for its role in spreading this pandemic.” 
In May, Trump announced the U.S. would leave the World Health Organization because it had been too easy on China in the early days of the pandemic.
To undercut his own association with China, Trump somewhat nonsensically tried to link his Democratic opponent, Joe Biden, to China. He claimed—falsely—that China had paid Biden’s son, Hunter, $1.5 billion. He and his appointees Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe, Attorney General William Barr, and National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien, all claimed—again falsely-- that China was interfering in the election to help Biden.
This week, the intelligence community reported that, in fact, China did not try to influence the election because it did not “view either election outcome as being advantageous enough for China to risk getting caught meddling.”
As Trump politicized the pandemic and attacked China, hate crimes against Asian-Americans began to rise; there were about 3800 of them between March 19, 2020 and February 28, 2021. In cities, hate incidents increased by 150%.
In this context, the suggestion of a police spokesman who had posted pictures celebrating a shirt that called Covid-19 the “VIRUS IMPORTED FROM CHY-NA” that a gunman had killed six women of Asian descent because he had had “a really bad day,” along with the officer’s apparent acceptance of Long’s statement that the killings were not racially motivated, outraged observers.
That seemingly cavalier dismissal of the dead while accepting the words of the white murderer seemed to personify an American history that has discriminated against Asians since the California legislature slapped a Foreign Miners’ Tax on Chinese miners in 1850, just a year after they began to arrive in California. Discriminatory laws and violence from their white neighbors plagued Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, Vietnamese, and all Asian immigrants as they moved to the U.S.
Discrimination and hatred have continued to plague their descendants.
The rise in anti-Asian violence has been so bad this year that a subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee had planned a hearing today on hate crimes against Asian Americans even before the murders. Representative Doris Matsui (D-CA) today condemned the recent uptick in violence, but pointed out that discrimination is hardly new. “There is a systemic problem here,” she said. Of Japanese descent, she noted that she was born during WWII in an internment camp in Arizona.
Asian American women have borne a dual burden of both racism and sexism, as certain men fetishize Asian and Asian American women, seeing them as submissive, exotic, and sexually available. Attackers aimed nearly 70% of the reported 3,800 hate incidents reported last year at women.
That Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses ties into a long history that links racism to sexism—and to violence— in a peculiarly American fashion.

No offense, but that's terrible, and I don't think I'd call it journalism. Do you not see a problem with this? Maybe the very problem Ben was suggesting?

Quote
In this context, the suggestion of a police spokesman who had posted pictures celebrating a shirt that called Covid-19 the “VIRUS IMPORTED FROM CHY-NA” that a gunman had killed six women of Asian descent because he had had “a really bad day,” along with the officer’s apparent acceptance of Long’s statement that the killings were not racially motivated, outraged observers.
That seemingly cavalier dismissal of the dead while accepting the words of the white murderer seemed to personify an American history that has discriminated against Asians since the California legislature slapped a Foreign Miners’ Tax on Chinese miners in 1850, just a year after they began to arrive in California. Discriminatory laws and violence from their white neighbors plagued Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, Vietnamese, and all Asian immigrants as they moved to the U.S.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Stadler

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #263 on: March 19, 2021, 12:59:04 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #264 on: March 19, 2021, 01:06:09 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.

Offline Chino

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #265 on: March 19, 2021, 01:12:52 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.


That's a huge stretch. If brothels and rub and tugs were legal, and he only frequented the Asian ones, you'd have a point. But odds are that Asians were the only game in town.   

And having a "racial fetish" when it comes to sexual desires means nothing. Go through my porn history and you'll see that videos featuring black women probably outnumber Asian content by about 15:1. It doesn't mean I have anything against Asian women. You like what you like.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #266 on: March 19, 2021, 01:17:12 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.

NO...It just so happens that the people that work these "Massage" parlors are Asian Women. And the reasons for that being the reasons I gave earlier. It's an unfortunate reality that there are businesses that can legally be able to set up shop with sex slaves. In my closest city, we have a couple here, and one was on a news story for having sex workers, and that place is still open for business.

If there were other outlets where he could get these same services, he would have frequented those as well. The thing is, there aren't any others but these ones.



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"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #267 on: March 19, 2021, 01:19:36 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.
Did he? It seems just as, if not more likely to me that it was a matter of availability. XJ suggested earlier "a racial component to whom is involved in sex work," and while I didn't comment on it because my take wasn't relevant then, I think he's very wrong. The racial component is with regards to where they work in the industry. Asians tend to work almost exclusively in massage parlors (and massage parlors tend to recruit Asians excursively). I can't speak for this asshole, but in Dallas I can point to three different places one can go to get it on with Asian girls (and not from personal experience). I wouldn't have a clue where to go to pick up other prostitutes. In this case, Asians are simply the most accessible.


edit: Double-ninja'd (that doesn't happen too often  :lol)
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #268 on: March 19, 2021, 01:30:24 PM »
Long read and Copied/pasted from a journalist I follow on FB. She is great - look up Heather Cox Richardson if you're interested. She does a great job of giving large picture context on current events.

Quote
On Tuesday, in Georgia, a gunman murdered 1 man and 7 women, at three spas, and wounded another man. All three of the businesses were operating legally, according to Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, and had not previously come to the attention of the Atlanta Police Department, although all three had  been reviewed by an erotic review site. The man apprehended for the murders was 21-year-old Robert Aaron Long, who is described as deeply religious. Six of the women killed were of Asian descent.
Yesterday, at the news conference about the killings, the sheriff’s captain who was acting as a spokesman about the case, Jay Baker, told reporters that Long was “pretty much fed up and kind of at the end of his rope. Yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did.” The spokesman went on to say that the suspect “apparently has an issue, what he considers a sex addiction,” that had spurred him to murder, and that it was too early to tell if the incident was a “hate crime.” Long told law enforcement officers that the murders were “not racially motivated.” He was, he said, trying to “help” other people with sex addictions.
Journalists quickly discovered that Baker had posted on Facebook a picture of a shirt calling COVID-19 an “IMPORTED VIRUS FROM CHY-NA.”
As Baker’s Facebook post indicated, the short-term history behind the shooting is the former president’s attacks on China, in which he drew out the pronunciation of the name to make it sound like a schoolyard insult.
The story behind Trump’s attacks on China was his desperate determination to be reelected in 2020. In 2018, the former president placed tariffs on Chinese goods to illustrate his commitment to make the U.S. “a much stronger, much richer nation.” The tariffs led to a trade war with China and, rather than building a much stronger nation, resulted in a dramatic fall in agricultural exports. Agricultural exports to China fell from $15.8 billion in 2017 to $5.9 billion in 2018.
To combat the growing unrest in the agricultural regions of the country, where farm bankruptcies grew by nearly 20% in 2019, Trump paid off farmers hurt by the tariff with subsidies, which made up more than one third of U.S. farm income in 2020. In June 2019, he also begged Chinese President Xi Jinping to help him win the 2020 election. He told him that farmers were important to his election prospects, and begged Xi to buy more soybeans and wheat from U.S. farmers.
In January 2020, Trump and Chinese Vice Premier Liu He signed a deal that cut some U.S. tariffs in exchange for Chinese promises to buy more agricultural products, as well as some other adjustments between the two countries. On January 22, Trump tweeted: ““One of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!”
But, of course, the novel coronavirus was beginning to ravage the world.
On January 24, Trump tweeted: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Five days later, at a signing ceremony, he said: “I think our relationship with China now might be the best it's been in a long, long time.”
On February 7, Trump called journalist Bob Woodward and said of the coronavirus, “This is deadly stuff. You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed…. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu.” Still, on February 10, he told supporters in New Hampshire that the coronavirus would “miraculously” go away when the weather got warmer, and in mid-February, he defended Xi’s handling of the epidemic, saying China was working hard and “doing a very good job” and that they “have everything under control.”
Shortly after the U.S. shut down to combat the pandemic in mid-March, Trump began to turn on China. On March 22, after 33,000 Americans had tested positive for the virus and 421 had died of it, Trump seemed to think better of his praise for Xi. He insisted that China had not told him about the deadly nature of the virus, and began to call it the “Chinese virus,” or the “Chy-na virus.”
By April 17, a Republican strategy document urged candidates to deflect attention from the nation’s disastrous coronavirus news by attacking China, which “caused this pandemic by covering it up, lying, and hoarding the world’s supply of medical equipment…. China… has stolen millions of American jobs, [and] sent fentanyl to the United States.” Democrats would not stand up to China, the document told Republican candidates to say, but “I will stand up to China, bring our manufacturing jobs back home, and push for sanctions on China for its role in spreading this pandemic.” 
In May, Trump announced the U.S. would leave the World Health Organization because it had been too easy on China in the early days of the pandemic.
To undercut his own association with China, Trump somewhat nonsensically tried to link his Democratic opponent, Joe Biden, to China. He claimed—falsely—that China had paid Biden’s son, Hunter, $1.5 billion. He and his appointees Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe, Attorney General William Barr, and National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien, all claimed—again falsely-- that China was interfering in the election to help Biden.
This week, the intelligence community reported that, in fact, China did not try to influence the election because it did not “view either election outcome as being advantageous enough for China to risk getting caught meddling.”
As Trump politicized the pandemic and attacked China, hate crimes against Asian-Americans began to rise; there were about 3800 of them between March 19, 2020 and February 28, 2021. In cities, hate incidents increased by 150%.
In this context, the suggestion of a police spokesman who had posted pictures celebrating a shirt that called Covid-19 the “VIRUS IMPORTED FROM CHY-NA” that a gunman had killed six women of Asian descent because he had had “a really bad day,” along with the officer’s apparent acceptance of Long’s statement that the killings were not racially motivated, outraged observers.
That seemingly cavalier dismissal of the dead while accepting the words of the white murderer seemed to personify an American history that has discriminated against Asians since the California legislature slapped a Foreign Miners’ Tax on Chinese miners in 1850, just a year after they began to arrive in California. Discriminatory laws and violence from their white neighbors plagued Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, Vietnamese, and all Asian immigrants as they moved to the U.S.
Discrimination and hatred have continued to plague their descendants.
The rise in anti-Asian violence has been so bad this year that a subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee had planned a hearing today on hate crimes against Asian Americans even before the murders. Representative Doris Matsui (D-CA) today condemned the recent uptick in violence, but pointed out that discrimination is hardly new. “There is a systemic problem here,” she said. Of Japanese descent, she noted that she was born during WWII in an internment camp in Arizona.
Asian American women have borne a dual burden of both racism and sexism, as certain men fetishize Asian and Asian American women, seeing them as submissive, exotic, and sexually available. Attackers aimed nearly 70% of the reported 3,800 hate incidents reported last year at women.
That Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses ties into a long history that links racism to sexism—and to violence— in a peculiarly American fashion.

No offense, but that's terrible, and I don't think I'd call it journalism. Do you not see a problem with this? Maybe the very problem Ben was suggesting?

Quote
In this context, the suggestion of a police spokesman who had posted pictures celebrating a shirt that called Covid-19 the “VIRUS IMPORTED FROM CHY-NA” that a gunman had killed six women of Asian descent because he had had “a really bad day,” along with the officer’s apparent acceptance of Long’s statement that the killings were not racially motivated, outraged observers.
That seemingly cavalier dismissal of the dead while accepting the words of the white murderer seemed to personify an American history that has discriminated against Asians since the California legislature slapped a Foreign Miners’ Tax on Chinese miners in 1850, just a year after they began to arrive in California. Discriminatory laws and violence from their white neighbors plagued Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, Vietnamese, and all Asian immigrants as they moved to the U.S.

That is exactly the point I am making about the news and them using Social Media.

Quote
In this context, the suggestion of a police spokesman who had posted pictures celebrating a shirt that called Covid-19 the “VIRUS IMPORTED FROM CHY-NA” that a gunman had killed six women of Asian descent because he had had “a really bad day,” along with the officer’s apparent acceptance of Long’s statement that the killings were not racially motivated, outraged observers.
That seemingly cavalier dismissal of the dead while accepting the words of the white murderer seemed to personify an American history that has discriminated against Asians since the California legislature slapped a Foreign Miners’ Tax on Chinese miners in 1850, just a year after they began to arrive in California. Discriminatory laws and violence from their white neighbors plagued Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, Vietnamese, and all Asian immigrants as they moved to the U.S.


They go and make a big long scrolls worth of "context" and then say "in this context".... :lol Well yeah, if you include all those things that have no relation to what Long did. And this is to dismiss the police officer who made the statement.  :facepalm: And then they go one to say "Words of the white murderer" and "dismissal of the dead" what the hell kind of word play is this.

This is exactly pulling at the heartstrings and making you emotional. That long scrolls worth of text is the Heartstring pulling that should make you feel bad for the Asian people. And get you riled up at the officer for saying it's not racially motivated, because he did things on Social Media. This is exactly what I am also pointing out about how News and Media use Social Media for their stories.



I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

"We can't rewrite history. We can learn our own history, and share it with other people. While, we learn, from them, their history." -Me,Myself,I

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #269 on: March 19, 2021, 01:39:59 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.
Did he? It seems just as, if not more likely to me that it was a matter of availability. XJ suggested earlier "a racial component to whom is involved in sex work," and while I didn't comment on it because my take wasn't relevant then, I think he's very wrong. The racial component is with regards to where they work in the industry. Asians tend to work almost exclusively in massage parlors (and massage parlors tend to recruit Asians excursively). I can't speak for this asshole, but in Dallas I can point to three different places one can go to get it on with Asian girls (and not from personal experience). I wouldn't have a clue where to go to pick up other prostitutes. In this case, Asians are simply the most accessible.


edit: Double-ninja'd (that doesn't happen too often  :lol)

If you think about availability. He wouldn't have done that around a certain part of Albuquerque, just walk the street and you're guaranteed to find someone willing to service you...and he would have a choice at that.  :biggrin:




The only thing I see Racial about any of this is the fact that Asian women tend to be part of these businesses. They should be raving about why Asian women are in this business and why are they are the only race in this type of shadow business.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #270 on: March 19, 2021, 01:47:22 PM »
As sad as this story is for the murder of these innocent people, the media coverage is so piss poor.  I hardly want to talk about it because it makes me mad to see the media spin this to not only divide their audience (creating not only division but it gets everyone talking) but to hit the bell on the line item that sells the most "racism"

The only real racial issue I have found is that sex work in massage parlors are almost all Asian.  That can (and maybe should) be discussed, but when the shooter himself admits his motives to be of sexual nature not racial, it's hard for me really blame the opposite. 

I don't doubt he might and likely was racist, and that he probably was mentally unstable due to his religious views vs. his actions, but I think the second point is more important than the former in this case.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #271 on: March 19, 2021, 01:49:26 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.
Did he? It seems just as, if not more likely to me that it was a matter of availability. XJ suggested earlier "a racial component to whom is involved in sex work," and while I didn't comment on it because my take wasn't relevant then, I think he's very wrong. The racial component is with regards to where they work in the industry. Asians tend to work almost exclusively in massage parlors (and massage parlors tend to recruit Asians excursively). I can't speak for this asshole, but in Dallas I can point to three different places one can go to get it on with Asian girls (and not from personal experience). I wouldn't have a clue where to go to pick up other prostitutes. In this case, Asians are simply the most accessible.


edit: Double-ninja'd (that doesn't happen too often  :lol)

If you think about availability. He wouldn't have done that around a certain part of Albuquerque, just walk the street and you're guaranteed to find someone willing to service you...and he would have a choice at that.  :biggrin:

There are obviously neighborhoods in Dallas where you can find girls walking about. At the same time AMPs crop up all over the place. They're not just relegated to sleazy neighborhoods. That would make them a much more likely target for kill-crazy whackjobs.

Quote
The only thing I see Racial about any of this is the fact that Asian women tend to be part of these businesses. They should be raving about why Asian women are in this business and why are they are the only race in this type of shadow business.
That certainly is a real component of this. My hunch would be that women who've worked at these places go on to open places of their own. It's funny you mention it, though. There was a mama-san in the news down here last year that became a fairly big story. She had opened up a restaurant specializing in handmade dumplings that became all the rage. It quickly became one of the top restaurants in Dallas. Turns out she only opened the place as a venue to launder all of the cash from her AMP on the other side of town. She'd become a minor local celebrity, and was looking to expand her restaurants before she became public enemy number 1.
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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #272 on: March 19, 2021, 02:03:52 PM »
I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman.

It's possible the issue might be in that some people heard the comment from Sheriff Gomer as "He's having a bad day after killing 8 women" (no shit, Sherlock!), vs some hearing it as "He's having a bad day, so he went and killed 8 women".  The latter implies his 'bad day' was triggered by something, and that trigger is what finally put him over the edge.  The latter (to me) suggests a crass/smug/off-the-cuff/callous comment.

Haven't read the long ass Heather whoever post (though I have read some of hers in the past from your FB feed, Tricia), but will peruse it later.
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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #273 on: March 19, 2021, 02:07:59 PM »
AMP's are a dime a dozen out here, and where I live is far from a shady area. The industry is massive. As far as I know though, this is the first mass shooting incident involving them. Sex addiction tends more to individual crimes of passion as opposed to scorched earth approaches like this asshole took. Most of the time, they direct their shame and anger inward towards self harm, substance abuse, or further feeding the beast. (I have pretty solid experience with all three). Thin line of thinking leads me to focus more on the individual, and why his circumstances went to these extremes.

While race may not be a factor, his southern  white, Christian upbringing does have a play I'd gather. I can only imagine the shame of knowing these immigrants held such power over him, and were such an unclean temptation that he was driven to deal with it in the great American fashion.just thinking out loud, tear it apart as I know you all will.

I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman.

It's possible the issue might be in that some people heard the comment from Sheriff Gomer as "He's having a bad day after killing 8 women" (no shit, Sherlock!), vs some hearing it as "He's having a bad day, so he went and killed 8 women".  The latter implies his 'bad day' was triggered by something, and that trigger is what finally put him over the edge.  The latter (to me) suggests a crass/smug/off-the-cuff/callous comment.


The kind of mistakes someone who sucked at public speaking would make.

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #274 on: March 19, 2021, 02:37:42 PM »
While race may not be a factor, his southern  white, Christian upbringing does have a play I'd gather. I can only imagine the shame of knowing these immigrants held such power over him, and were such an unclean temptation that he was driven to deal with it in the great American fashion.just thinking out loud, tear it apart as I know you all will.

His hardcore religious beliefs made him mentally unstable IMO.  Guy was consistently breaking his own religious rules and felt extreme guilt.  Took it out on the ones who "enabled" his sinful pleasure.

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #275 on: March 19, 2021, 02:39:22 PM »
I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman.

It's possible the issue might be in that some people heard the comment from Sheriff Gomer as "He's having a bad day after killing 8 women" (no shit, Sherlock!), vs some hearing it as "He's having a bad day, so he went and killed 8 women".  The latter implies his 'bad day' was triggered by something, and that trigger is what finally put him over the edge.  The latter (to me) suggests a crass/smug/off-the-cuff/callous comment.

Haven't read the long ass Heather whoever post (though I have read some of hers in the past from your FB feed, Tricia), but will peruse it later.
Was it your intention to refer to the latter twice? Either way, I just don't see crassness or smugness in that. If he'd said "he has good days and bad days, and yesterday was a really bad day," would that have made a difference? Because that's certainly the way I interpreted it, and unless you're looking for an angle, I'm not sure why'd somebody would jump to a different interpretation. If the general public's understanding of the Enlgish language leads it to quickly infer "oh, he was just having a bad day so he went out and slaughtered 8 people, no big deal," then this country is far, far more fucked up than even I already think it is.
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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #276 on: March 19, 2021, 02:45:24 PM »
While race may not be a factor, his southern  white, Christian upbringing does have a play I'd gather. I can only imagine the shame of knowing these immigrants held such power over him, and were such an unclean temptation that he was driven to deal with it in the great American fashion.just thinking out loud, tear it apart as I know you all will.

His hardcore religious beliefs made him mentally unstable IMO.  Guy was consistently breaking his own religious rules and felt extreme guilt.  Took it out on the ones who "enabled" his sinful pleasure.

Definitely a big part of his whole psychology that lead to this. This case touches so many aspects of America that need some attention for sure... Gun laws, race, religious zealotry, trafficking, sex work, addiction, and the press's ability to fuck it all up.


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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #277 on: March 19, 2021, 02:52:43 PM »
I was going in a different direction; whether the article was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, it makes the same illogical leap that I've been pointing out for the better part of a page and a half.

I have read several articles on this horrific, horrible event, and I haven't seen one that clearly stated that Long blamed Asian or Asian American women for his own sexual impulses.  He did blame, as far as I can tell, the general availability of sex "outlets", which is it's own issue, but that's as far as he went.  I think it might be well-meaning, but it's still dangerous to go further than that.

It's just baffling to me, because the ambiguity does nothing for the main argument; that author doesn't HAVE to make that leap in order to maintain the thrust of the rest of the article, so why do it?  What's the upside?

What I don't understand is why does it matter who Long blames? He had a racial fetish that has some impact to his decision making process, whether he admits to it or not.

Well, it matters who he blames because that's all we have to go on for his motivation.  Whether you or I or that author thinks he has a "racial fetish" or not is immaterial.   It's purely guess-work: just because one goes to one of those places is not, in itself, indicative of a "racial fetish".  Her whole premise is predicated, basically, on a connection that just so happens to fully support her premise.  That's a tautology.   And honestly, even if he DID have a "racial fetish", it still doesn't lend to the conclusion; that's only correlation, not causation.   Adam Lanza shooting up a school that, by definition, has a lot of kids doesn't mean he hates kids.

(And of course, this whole conversation begs the question of whether a "racial fetish" is in and of itself bad.  People like who they like; it's not a choice.)

EDIT:  Couple others' got there before me.  But, yeah.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 02:58:06 PM by Stadler »

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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #278 on: March 19, 2021, 04:45:22 PM »
I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman.

It's possible the issue might be in that some people heard the comment from Sheriff Gomer as "He's having a bad day after killing 8 women" (no shit, Sherlock!), vs some hearing it as "He's having a bad day, so he went and killed 8 women".  The latter implies his 'bad day' was triggered by something, and that trigger is what finally put him over the edge.  The latter former (to me) suggests a crass/smug/off-the-cuff/callous comment.

Haven't read the long ass Heather whoever post (though I have read some of hers in the past from your FB feed, Tricia), but will peruse it later.
Was it your intention to refer to the latter twice? Either way, I just don't see crassness or smugness in that. If he'd said "he has good days and bad days, and yesterday was a really bad day," would that have made a difference? Because that's certainly the way I interpreted it, and unless you're looking for an angle, I'm not sure why'd somebody would jump to a different interpretation. If the general public's understanding of the Enlgish language leads it to quickly infer "oh, he was just having a bad day so he went out and slaughtered 8 people, no big deal," then this country is far, far more fucked up than even I already think it is.

Nope... brain fart.  fix'd above.  These kinds of things are often on the heels of something 'triggering' the aggressor, and (not that I think this is what Sherrif Gomer was saying), insinuating this guy's "bad day" was because of that trigger would be mildly palatable.

Was just looking for a way as to why people are viewin gthe 'bad day' comment as a big deal / not a big deal.
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Re: Racism and Privilege
« Reply #279 on: March 22, 2021, 08:22:53 AM »
I can dismiss the bad day comment as just a small town sheriff not being a trained public spokesman.

It's possible the issue might be in that some people heard the comment from Sheriff Gomer as "He's having a bad day after killing 8 women" (no shit, Sherlock!), vs some hearing it as "He's having a bad day, so he went and killed 8 women".  The latter implies his 'bad day' was triggered by something, and that trigger is what finally put him over the edge.  The latter former (to me) suggests a crass/smug/off-the-cuff/callous comment.

Haven't read the long ass Heather whoever post (though I have read some of hers in the past from your FB feed, Tricia), but will peruse it later.
Was it your intention to refer to the latter twice? Either way, I just don't see crassness or smugness in that. If he'd said "he has good days and bad days, and yesterday was a really bad day," would that have made a difference? Because that's certainly the way I interpreted it, and unless you're looking for an angle, I'm not sure why'd somebody would jump to a different interpretation. If the general public's understanding of the Enlgish language leads it to quickly infer "oh, he was just having a bad day so he went out and slaughtered 8 people, no big deal," then this country is far, far more fucked up than even I already think it is.

Nope... brain fart.  fix'd above.  These kinds of things are often on the heels of something 'triggering' the aggressor, and (not that I think this is what Sherrif Gomer was saying), insinuating this guy's "bad day" was because of that trigger would be mildly palatable.

Was just looking for a way as to why people are viewin gthe 'bad day' comment as a big deal / not a big deal.

Because they need something of outrage to bolster their world view?   I was at a small get-together this weekend for a Uconn Basketball game (yes, social distanced, and with masks), and a good friend of mine was there and she was all up in arms about the "bad day" comment.  I love her, I would trust her with my life, and she's married to one of my oldest and dearest friends, but she's not the brightest bulb on the tree and tends to lead with her heart on matters political.  For her (and she would never admit this), this is something to be outraged about and to use as an example.