Poll

Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"

★☆☆☆☆
7 (17.1%)
★★☆☆☆
5 (12.2%)
★★★☆☆
9 (22%)
★★★★☆
11 (26.8%)
★★★★★
9 (22%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"  (Read 4217 times)

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Offline emtee

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #105 on: May 20, 2020, 01:12:41 PM »
Where does Sunn O))) fit into this convo?

Yowza.

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #106 on: May 20, 2020, 01:13:38 PM »
Is it just Bieber and and Sheeran?

What about Billie Eilish and Lady Gaga? I love both of them. Am I objectively wrong?

You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY them.

You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY to ANY one or two artists.
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Online WildRanger

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #107 on: May 20, 2020, 01:49:03 PM »
Is it just Bieber and and Sheeran?

What about Billie Eilish and Lady Gaga? I love both of them. Am I objectively wrong?

You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY them.

You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY to ANY one or two artists.

Yes.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #108 on: May 20, 2020, 01:59:02 PM »
And you can sit and really listen to the production of it and what went into it and it's pretty outstanding.
Great production doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to Bad Guy. That song is just horrible.  :P
 
 
Is it just Bieber and and Sheeran?

What about Billie Eilish and Lady Gaga? I love both of them. Am I objectively wrong?
You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY them.
You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY to ANY one or two artists.
....unless it was someone like Frank Zappa!   :biggrin:
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #109 on: May 20, 2020, 02:01:46 PM »
Is it just Bieber and and Sheeran?

What about Billie Eilish and Lady Gaga? I love both of them. Am I objectively wrong?

You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY them.

You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY to ANY one or two artists.

Yes.

Yes, indeed. Although I am afraid you did not get the point of that comment. Now for the third time, waiting for you to answer whether or not I am a "real music fan" based on what I listen to. By your logic, I am an outlier.
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Online Stadler

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #110 on: May 20, 2020, 02:06:46 PM »
My issue is that the conversation has already been decided. No art is objectively good or bad, no artists are objectively good or bad. You can create certain criteria to judge them by, but then it's 100% subjective. So I don't see where the convo can go other than in circles.


Man, how can you say that Miles Davis is not objectively better than Justin Bieber, when there are so many objective arguments for that???
I could accept that music is mostly subjective, but not 100% subjective. If music is 100% subjective then that gives some idiots the right to claim that Bieber is better than Miles Davis.

What's your standard?   It depends entirely on your standard.  Better at what?  If you mean filling stadiums, Beiber blows Davis away.  If you mean influencing other instrumentalists, then Davis.   If the quality of the music is judged by "records sold", Beiber wins again. 

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #111 on: May 20, 2020, 02:09:02 PM »
Justin Bieber is definitely better at selling out arenas than Miles Davis was.

Yep. Because he is a very commercial singer/performer today, which music is aimed at kids, mostly girls. But when it comes to actual music fans, he will never get 5% of appreciation that Miles Davis generally has.

What's an actual music fan?  How do you measure that?   I have both Harry Styles solo albums, saw him in concert, and sent his music in roulettes (and likely will again).   I appreciate Davis, and listen to him on occasion, but there are FAR more opportunities for me to put on a Styles record than a Davis record.   Where do I fall on the spectrum?   

Again; STANDARD. 

Online Stadler

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #112 on: May 20, 2020, 02:10:23 PM »
Justin Bieber is definitely better at selling out arenas than Miles Davis was.

Yep. Because he is a very commercial singer/performer today, which music is aimed at kids, mostly girls. But when it comes to actual music fans, he will never get 5% of appreciation that Miles Davis generally has.

Il bite like a dumbfish, because this could go fantastic places.

WR, what makes a music fan an "actual" music fan then?

Development of personal taste in music.


Got it. What do you mean by development though?

I can see both the music fan and the "actual" music fan listening to music and having personal taste. How does the development - the deal breaker, as it were - part work?

If someone is a youngster who listens only current Top 20 hits he is definitely not gonna DEVELOP a taste in music. If someone is a youngster who saw some list of "greatest albums of all time" and then he decided to take a listen to e.g. "Kind of Blue" or "Abbey Road" or "Ziggy Stardust" he is gonna DEVELOP a taste in music and he will become an actual music fan.

Ok, I get it. Current Top 20 = no development, some GOAT list = development.

What are the criteria for those lists though? Where is the guarantee they're going to suggest development-worthy material?

Music is very similar as literature. If someone read over 200 classics he knows much more about literature than someone who didn't read more than 2 or 3 books in his life. Man who read only 2 or 3 books actually doesn't know s*it about literature.
So if some kid is only listening to current Bieber and Sheeran hits and nothing besides that, then he doesn't know s*it about music.

By your standard though - YOUR STANDARD - if you only listen to Davis (and his progeny) you ALSO don't know shit about music.   I'll give you that "breadth" of knowledge is good, but that's totally independent of the specific music, only the quantity.  (And by the way, don't pat yourself on the back too hard; the easily-purchased CDs/downloads available barely is the tip of the iceberg on the REAL breadth of music).   

Online The Walrus

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #113 on: May 20, 2020, 02:12:40 PM »
I feel like Stadler is jumping in the ring and I'm tired and sweating it out after 6 rounds and I want to grab his shoulders and hold him back yelling, "It's not worth it! It's not worth it!!"  :lol
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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #114 on: May 20, 2020, 02:13:53 PM »
This conversation drives me to drink.  Seriously.   Nothing worse than a music snob.  If it moves you, it moves you.  Full stop. 

Online WildRanger

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #115 on: May 20, 2020, 02:17:02 PM »

What's your standard? 

Artistry, talent and quality of music.

Online The Walrus

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #116 on: May 20, 2020, 02:17:35 PM »
It's not even just music snobbery, it's plain stupidity and ignorance on so many fronts as well.
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Online WildRanger

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #117 on: May 20, 2020, 02:18:09 PM »
And you can sit and really listen to the production of it and what went into it and it's pretty outstanding.
Great production doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to Bad Guy. That song is just horrible.  :P
 
 
Is it just Bieber and and Sheeran?

What about Billie Eilish and Lady Gaga? I love both of them. Am I objectively wrong?
You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY them.
You would have no (developed) taste if you knew and listened ONLY to ANY one or two artists.
....unless it was someone like Frank Zappa!   :biggrin:

He is in the "acquired taste" category!

Online Adami

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #118 on: May 20, 2020, 02:19:53 PM »
Stadler vs WildRanger is like Batman Vs Joker. And I love it!
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Online WildRanger

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #119 on: May 20, 2020, 02:35:48 PM »
This conversation drives me to drink.  Seriously.   Nothing worse than a music snob.  If it moves you, it moves you.  Full stop.

Even if it's Justin Bieber? Really?




Online Stadler

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #120 on: May 20, 2020, 02:36:32 PM »

What's your standard? 

Artistry, talent and quality of music.

Define that.  Right now, objectively.  Give me a number on "quality of music".   

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #121 on: May 20, 2020, 02:39:02 PM »
This conversation drives me to drink.  Seriously.   Nothing worse than a music snob.  If it moves you, it moves you.  Full stop.

Even if it's Justin Bieber? Really?

Of course.  "U Smile" is one of my favorite tunes of all time.  Seriously, no irony.   Beiber is not a great example, because I don't like all his music, but there are other so-called "popular" artists where I do.  I watched Harry Styles (from One Direction) rock the Madison Square Garden - all 22,000 people or however many were there (it was a sold out show) and it was a great evening. 

Offline emtee

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #122 on: May 20, 2020, 02:40:14 PM »
This conversation drives me to drink.  Seriously.   Nothing worse than a music snob.  If it moves you, it moves you.  Full stop.

Even if it's Justin Bieber? Really?

Why would it matter who it is?


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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #123 on: May 20, 2020, 02:44:31 PM »
This is now my favourite thread :)
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Online The Walrus

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #124 on: May 20, 2020, 02:44:56 PM »
This conversation drives me to drink.  Seriously.   Nothing worse than a music snob.  If it moves you, it moves you.  Full stop.

Even if it's Justin Bieber? Really?

EARTH TO WILDRANGER. OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THINGS YOU DON'T LIKE. THEY CAN HAVE OPINIONS TOO
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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2020, 02:53:30 PM »

What's your standard? 

Artistry, talent and quality of music.

Define that.  Right now, objectively.  Give me a number on "quality of music".

8675309.
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Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2020, 03:01:00 PM »
Music elitists like WildRanger are so funny.

Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #127 on: May 20, 2020, 03:10:35 PM »
Honestly, I haven't read WR putting other people's opinions down. Heck, we're inside a thread where he's asking for our opinions via poll.

Although I don't agree with the portion of his views transpiring in this discussion, I'm genuinely interested in understanding what his reasoning is and where it comes from.

So, Wild Ranger, do you care answering my questions from a couple of pages ago?

Online The Walrus

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2020, 03:15:22 PM »
Heck, we're inside a thread where he's asking for our opinions via poll.

From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
"I don't worry about nothing, no, 'cause worrying's a waste of my time"

Offline emtee

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2020, 03:15:46 PM »

What's your standard? 

Artistry, talent and quality of music.



Define that.  Right now, objectively.  Give me a number on "quality of music".

8675309.

Nicely played Jenny.

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2020, 03:16:19 PM »
Honestly, I haven't read WR putting other people's opinions down. Heck, we're inside a thread where he's asking for our opinions via poll.

Although I don't agree with the portion of his views transpiring in this discussion, I'm genuinely interested in understanding what his reasoning is and where it comes from.

I'm kind of in the same boat, but the thing is, this is thread #100 where the exact same thing is happening and part of what makes it so frustrating to 'engage' in discussion with WildRanger is that he just drops some opinion or made up 'fact' without any backup, usually something that's bound to receive the same sort of reactions they get here and then when he's called upon to explain what he means, he just disappears never to answer again. It's kind of fascinating in that sense, but we're also going down the same 'some music is objectively better than other music' bullshit rabbithole that somehow each and every one of his thread turns into, just because of the way he asks his questions.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #131 on: May 20, 2020, 03:18:51 PM »
Mike Stone is objectively a better guitar player than John Petrucci.

Come at me.

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2020, 03:20:22 PM »
Mike Stone is objectively a better guitar player than John Petrucci.

Come at me.

I will come at you!

But only to embrace you in a brotherly hug of acceptance and respect!
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Online The Walrus

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #133 on: May 20, 2020, 03:21:20 PM »
Mike Stone is objectively a better guitar player than John Petrucci.

Come at me.

I will come at you!

But only to embrace you in a brotherly hug of acceptance and respect!

I'm calling the cops. That's not social distancing.
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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2020, 03:21:47 PM »
Music elitists like WildRanger are so funny.

Wait, if I say Justin Bieber's music is worthless and with no quality and any artistic merit(very common and popular opinion) then it makes me an elitist? Interesting.


Online Adami

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #135 on: May 20, 2020, 03:22:41 PM »
Music elitists like WildRanger are so funny.

Wait, if I say Justin Bieber's music is worthless and with no quality and any artistic merit(very common and popular opinion) then it makes me an elitist? Interesting.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

Yes. Yes it does.
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Online The Walrus

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #136 on: May 20, 2020, 03:23:30 PM »
I am reminded of this.
From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #137 on: May 20, 2020, 03:25:15 PM »
Mike Stone is objectively a better guitar player than John Petrucci.

Come at me.

I will come at you!

But only to embrace you in a brotherly hug of acceptance and respect!

I'm calling the cops. That's not social distancing.

Don't foil my secret attack!
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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #138 on: May 20, 2020, 03:25:50 PM »
Honestly, I haven't read WR putting other people's opinions down. Heck, we're inside a thread where he's asking for our opinions via poll.

Although I don't agree with the portion of his views transpiring in this discussion, I'm genuinely interested in understanding what his reasoning is and where it comes from.

I'm kind of in the same boat, but the thing is, this is thread #100 where the exact same thing is happening and part of what makes it so frustrating to 'engage' in discussion with WildRanger is that he just drops some opinion or made up 'fact' without any backup, usually something that's bound to receive the same sort of reactions they get here and then when he's called upon to explain what he means, he just disappears never to answer again. It's kind of fascinating in that sense, but we're also going down the same 'some music is objectively better than other music' bullshit rabbithole that somehow each and every one of his thread turns into, just because of the way he asks his questions.

The discussion I am trying to have with WR isn't frustrating at all (for me, at least) so far. I am not interested in changing his mind about the objective / subjective axis. I want to understand the way he comes to his conclusions because it's fascinating. 

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Re: Rate the Guns N' Roses version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
« Reply #139 on: May 20, 2020, 03:27:19 PM »
Honestly, I haven't read WR putting other people's opinions down. Heck, we're inside a thread where he's asking for our opinions via poll.

Although I don't agree with the portion of his views transpiring in this discussion, I'm genuinely interested in understanding what his reasoning is and where it comes from.

I'm kind of in the same boat, but the thing is, this is thread #100 where the exact same thing is happening and part of what makes it so frustrating to 'engage' in discussion with WildRanger is that he just drops some opinion or made up 'fact' without any backup, usually something that's bound to receive the same sort of reactions they get here and then when he's called upon to explain what he means, he just disappears never to answer again. It's kind of fascinating in that sense, but we're also going down the same 'some music is objectively better than other music' bullshit rabbithole that somehow each and every one of his thread turns into, just because of the way he asks his questions.

The discussion I am trying to have with WR isn't frustrating at all (for me, at least) so far. I am not interested in changing his mind about the objective / subjective axis. I want to understand the way he comes to his conclusions because it's fascinating.

I sure hope you're patient and accustomed to disappointment.
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