Poll

...which moment in DT history would you pick to eavesdrop on? Choose up to 3!

Band fires Chris Collins
0 (0%)
Band fires Dominici
0 (0%)
Kevin Moore quits during recording of Awake
27 (25.5%)
Band fires Sherinian
6 (5.7%)
MP/JP invite JR to join (second time)
2 (1.9%)
Band's conference call re: JLB's performance (circa Six Degrees tour)
22 (20.8%)
MP tells band he thinks they should take a hiatus
24 (22.6%)
MP actually quits (about a week later)
19 (17.9%)
Other (Please share)
6 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 52

Author Topic: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...  (Read 4248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12538
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2020, 12:47:17 PM »
Fascinating.

As for the bolded, I didn't know they named it after James :rollin


Yaarrr!!!!   :yarr
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Online Zydar

  • Creep With Tonality
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19257
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2020, 12:48:50 PM »
Being at Bear Tracks while recording I&W. Which would also mean seeing MP getting frustrated by David Prater.
Zydar is my new hero.  I just laughed so hard I nearly shat.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12538
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2020, 12:54:22 PM »
Being at Bear Tracks while recording I&W. Which would also mean seeing MP getting frustrated by David Prater.

In case you don't know, there are about 75 minutes worth of "making of I&W" videos up on YouTube.  Here's a link to the first:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thvFCQjuGMo&list=FL3rjktGL2mDM8lsvkjqi0FQ&index=86&t=4s
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Eldomm

  • Metropolis chemist
  • Posts: 1908
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2020, 06:48:34 AM »
Being a Kevin Moore fan, I did choose KM leaving.

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3725
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2020, 12:06:02 PM »
About all the paperwork/legal stuff for the MP split in 2010, I remember there were rumors of MP filing lawsuit towards DT. There wasn't such thing at the end

Well...yes and no.  The process of filing a lawsuit in New York is a bit different than it is in most other U.S. states.  In most states (and in federal court), a lawsuit is initiated by the plaintiff filing with the court a document called a complaint or petition.  The filing of the complaint triggers a bunch of deadlines, and the plaintiff will serve the complaint on the defendant(s), who will then file an answer to the complaint, and then things go from there.  In New York, the process starts by the plaintiff filing a document called a "summons with notice," which looks a lot like a lawsuit and even contains a brief statement of the case.  The plaintiff does not immediately file a complaint but will prepare and serve the complaint with the docket number obtained from the court, along with the summons.  Depending on if and how the defendant(s) respond to the complaint, the complaint may subsequently get filed with the court.

MP absolutely DID file a summons with notice and obtain a case number (I'm looking at it on my screen as I type this because it's publicly available -- Mike Portnoy v. John Petrucci, John Myung, James LaBrie, Jordan Rudess, Ytse Jams, Inc. and Infinity Tours, Inc.), and this is what was reported publicly as MP filing a lawsuit.  The problem is that no one (at least that I'm aware) who reported this understood or reported about the real significance of what MP did.  MP and/or his lawyers, who did understand the significance, simply countered the news by saying that no lawsuit had been filed.  Obviously, they worked things out before it went beyond that, and the case was eventually disposed of by way of a document called a stipulation of discontinuance.



Fascinating. I remember thinking it might be something like this, that the average person wouldn't get. MP was adamant that he "did not sue the band!!!!" and left it at that. Maybe he had to keep it vague for legal reasons but I remember his emotional response, complete with a million exclamation points indicated to me that he totally sued the band.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12538
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2020, 03:12:21 PM »
Fascinating. I remember thinking it might be something like this, that the average person wouldn't get. MP was adamant that he "did not sue the band!!!!" and left it at that. Maybe he had to keep it vague for legal reasons but I remember his emotional response, complete with a million exclamation points indicated to me that he totally sued the band.

MP's full statement on the issue was, "First of all, I did NOT sue them....and second of all, I DESPERATELY tried to discuss matters with them personally to avoid ANYTHING LIKE THIS and yet THEY insisted on ONLY using lawyers...so my lawyers filed those papers (BACK IN APRIL mind you) as that was the position they chose to take...if the band wouldve talked to me, it wouldve NEVER come to that!!!
 
All that aside, this was 6 months ago....so yes indeed, we have all moved on since then...
 
I'm still really not allowed to discuss any of this publically, but I feel everybody's hasty and half-truth filled witchhunt yesterday deserves to be addressed to help at least try to clear my name and reputation that was so wrongly tainted by yesterday's false conclusions...
"

You can find it on p. 6 of this thread at the MP forum (my own contemporary analysis of the situation appears on p. 5): https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?&m=2710576&high=did%2csue&mpage=6 .

The biggest problem as I recall was that everyone was reacting viscerally to something published by Blabbermouth, and MP's departure from the band was still only a year in the past and was a wound that hadn't healed for a lot of fans.

So...did MP "sue" DT?  I think he did, but I can see a reasonable argument that merely filing the summons with notice was a preliminary step to suing and, by itself, wasn't actually "suing" (there being no universally accepted definition of what it actually means to "sue" someone).  MP certainly was not well-versed in the nuances of civil procedure, and the legal action never got beyond a VERY preliminary stage, so I have and had no problem with him claiming otherwise (except that he should have kept his mouth shut completely -- he mentioned a few times in the thread that he wasn't legally allowed to discuss details, but his lawyers unfortunately couldn't convince him not even to speak in broad strokes).  Blabbermouth's (and other "media" outlets') failure to understand and/or report on those nuances created a lot of friction among the fans and, as a result of MP's close involvement with the fans via his forum, created friction between him and some fans also.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Trav86

  • Posts: 1989
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2020, 04:44:20 PM »
So PG, would you mind speculating a little bit for a layman like myself? I知 just curious about what it was that MP would be suing them over. Like, would it be trying to get some kind of lump sum? Or maybe a royalty on a certain number of albums after he was out? In your experience, what would have been plausible? You had said in the MP Forum post that it was too late in the game to try and take the name, so I知 assuming it wouldn稚 have been that.
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3725
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2020, 05:37:01 PM »
So PG, would you mind speculating a little bit for a layman like myself? I知 just curious about what it was that MP would be suing them over. Like, would it be trying to get some kind of lump sum? Or maybe a royalty on a certain number of albums after he was out? In your experience, what would have been plausible? You had said in the MP Forum post that it was too late in the game to try and take the name, so I知 assuming it wouldn稚 have been that.

My names not PG but I think you're onto something. I bet it was basically like, "Since I helped build this I am either entitled to a yearly royalty or continuous payment or a payout."

Who knows what they settled on? I'm sure he doesn't continue to get money from them except for publishing royalties. I also remember he wasn't allowed to use the DT logo in any advertising material for himself. I think they have gotten lax with that since he was selling his 50th birthday party shirts with a DT logo but I remember at the time he had to take down all copyrighted stuff from his website.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12538
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2020, 06:52:18 PM »
So PG, would you mind speculating a little bit for a layman like myself? I知 just curious about what it was that MP would be suing them over. Like, would it be trying to get some kind of lump sum? Or maybe a royalty on a certain number of albums after he was out? In your experience, what would have been plausible? You had said in the MP Forum post that it was too late in the game to try and take the name, so I知 assuming it wouldn稚 have been that.

Rather than write another long post myself, let me direct you back to the thread at MP's site.  There's a LOT of garbage in that thread, but go to page 2 and take a look at post number 70 by Paul Sommer.  In that post, he quotes verbatim from the "Notice" section of the summons.  It's worth reading  The allegations that likely would have been the basis of a complaint are in there.  In short:  (1) defendants "wrongfully excluded" MP from the band; and (2)/(3) defendants are wrongfully using the band name in connection with the recording of an album and a promotional tour.  MP was seeking declaratory and injunctive relief (essentially a court order preventing DT from doing what was alleged) and whatever monetary damages were found to be appropriate.

Next, take a look at Stadler's post #95 on p. 3 of the thread.  He explained that "wrongfully excluded" is a bit of a term of art.  I don't necessarily agree with some of Stadler's admitted speculation about MP's motives, but I think he was mostly right, which I think is reflected in my post #188 on p. 5 of the thread.  In a nutshell, MP's claims likely were based on various contracts between the band members and the organizing documents of the two corporations, none of which we ever have seen or likely ever will see.  In particular, a band agreement, if properly drafted, would talk about what would happen upon a member leaving the band (both in terms of rights to the names and trademarks but also in terms of money).

As for MP's ultimate goal, I can only guess, but I assume it would be the most favorable financial package in connection with him giving back his interest in the two corporations (the buyout that I mentioned previously in this thread).  My point about being "too late in the game to try and take the name" was that, if he had really wanted the injunctive relief mentioned in the summons, he should (I used the word "would") have filed something before ADTOE was released and the tour started.  He certainly COULD HAVE tried to get an injunction on a going forward basis, but I read the fact that nothing had been done earlier or in earnest as a signal that this wasn't his true goal.  I also commented about the fact that it was odd that the summons had been filed in April (2011) but did not surface publicly until September (another indication that, by the time of the Blabbermouth article, they were working things out).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Trav86

  • Posts: 1989
Re: If you could be a fly on the wall (that could also time-travel)...
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2020, 07:12:53 PM »
Appreciated   ;D
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?