Genesis VS Yes (Part 3) - Their 7th & 8th Albums

[ytserush]

Really tough one but Relayer alone pushes Yes over the edge. Those are my two favorite Genesis albums ever to that point in their career for my money.

[Orbert]

There's way too much high end on Going for the One.  There are a number of theories about why that is, and one of them is that through some kind of mix-up, some tracks were recorded with Dolby, but mixed down or reduced without it, resulting in tracks which are a mashup that cannot now be undone.  I would imagine that with all the extracurricular instrumentation, Yes did a lot of reducing, and this was the first album they produced themselves, after many years working with the amazing Eddy Offord.  So maybe some things got screwed up.  Fogies who remember using cassette tapes back in the 70's and 80's may remember the "trick" of recording a tape with Dolby on, but playing it back without.  The result is a boosted high end, but you adjust your Treble a bit and it sounds really cool, better than actual Dolby decoding because of the fidelity loss due to the tape itself.

Anyway, back in the day, I turned the Treble down a bit, and it sounded better.  All I had was a crummy Sears stereo.  The music grabbed me, and the sound quality wasn't an issue.

I just wanted to set the record (mostly) straight here.  Apparently I was mistaken about Dolby being applied to Going for the One; it was Tormato that supposedly had that happen, and it's still all just a theory anyway.

Brian Kehew talks about Tormato

Tormato has a lot of high end, too, but IMO still sounds a lot better than Going for the One.  I was sure that, if it was any of the later albums (later 70's anyway), it was Going for the One, which has ridiculous amounts of high end.

[Stadler]

No argument; it's all taste, but just as counter point, I HEAR the more trebly sound on GFTO, but for me it makes that album.  I love that sort of crystaline sound; it makes Turn Of The Century what it is, for me, and it gives a sort of orchestral bent to the keyboards (especially in Awaken).   

Frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way, and while I would KILL for a Wilson-version of the record, if he muddied it up too much I would be VERY disappointed.

[pg1067]

No argument; it's all taste, but just as counter point, I HEAR the more trebly sound on GFTO, but for me it makes that album.  I love that sort of crystaline sound; it makes Turn Of The Century what it is, for me, and it gives a sort of orchestral bent to the keyboards (especially in Awaken).   

I'm in the "GFTO is too trebly" camp, but I don't really think it manifests itself on Century or Awaken.

What I'd be curious about is whether anyone else agrees that pretty much every recorded, live version of Awaken is very substandard.  My first Yes concert was on the Union tour in the round, and I remember it being an incredible show.  When they did Awaken to close the show, it was a near religious experience.  But EVERY live version I've heard since then has been incredibly underwhelming.  It feels like the guitars and keys have no body or sustain AND that the five-man band can't pull it off live (as opposed to the eight-man unit that they had on the Union tour).  Anyone else feel this way?

[Orbert]

I agree.  Awaken is mind-blowing on the album, and on the Union tour (the only time I've seen Yes) it was amazing.  But I've never heard a live recording of the song that I thought did it justice.  The majesty, the power, the glory... are all lacking.

[Stadler]

No argument; it's all taste, but just as counter point, I HEAR the more trebly sound on GFTO, but for me it makes that album.  I love that sort of crystaline sound; it makes Turn Of The Century what it is, for me, and it gives a sort of orchestral bent to the keyboards (especially in Awaken).   

I'm in the "GFTO is too trebly" camp, but I don't really think it manifests itself on Century or Awaken.

What I'd be curious about is whether anyone else agrees that pretty much every recorded, live version of Awaken is very substandard.  My first Yes concert was on the Union tour in the round, and I remember it being an incredible show.  When they did Awaken to close the show, it was a near religious experience.  But EVERY live version I've heard since then has been incredibly underwhelming.  It feels like the guitars and keys have no body or sustain AND that the five-man band can't pull it off live (as opposed to the eight-man unit that they had on the Union tour).  Anyone else feel this way?

I can certainly vouch for the religious experience of the live performance.   Even the middle interlude - which is not my favorite part of the studio version - was mesmerizing live. 

[Fritzinger]

No argument; it's all taste, but just as counter point, I HEAR the more trebly sound on GFTO, but for me it makes that album.  I love that sort of crystaline sound; it makes Turn Of The Century what it is, for me, and it gives a sort of orchestral bent to the keyboards (especially in Awaken).   

I'm in the "GFTO is too trebly" camp, but I don't really think it manifests itself on Century or Awaken.

What I'd be curious about is whether anyone else agrees that pretty much every recorded, live version of Awaken is very substandard.  My first Yes concert was on the Union tour in the round, and I remember it being an incredible show.  When they did Awaken to close the show, it was a near religious experience.  But EVERY live version I've heard since then has been incredibly underwhelming.  It feels like the guitars and keys have no body or sustain AND that the five-man band can't pull it off live (as opposed to the eight-man unit that they had on the Union tour).  Anyone else feel this way?

I agree on most recordings.

BUT I saw Yes/ARW on the Night Of The Prog Festival 2 (I think?) years ago and while there was too much bass in the mix, they pulled it off very well. Still just a five man band without a choir and without a real organ, but that was a very good version. I guess you need (at least) Wakeman and Anderson to perform this piece. Of course, Howe's characteristic shredding and almost spastic guitar lines during the quiet middle part (shivers just writing about it) were missing.

[romdrums]

As far as live versions of Awaken go, I would say the version on Live at the House of Blues was pretty decent.  I think Billy Sherwood on extra guitar helped the cause there.  The version from ARW was good as well, as I think Trevor Rabin did a serviceable job covering the guitar parts.  For the most part, I think they need additional musicians to really pull it off, because there are more parts than there are hands when it's just a five piece trying to perform it. 

[pg1067]

As far as live versions of Awaken go, I would say the version on Live at the House of Blues was pretty decent.  I think Billy Sherwood on extra guitar helped the cause there.  The version from ARW was good as well, as I think Trevor Rabin did a serviceable job covering the guitar parts.  For the most part, I think they need additional musicians to really pull it off, because there are more parts than there are hands when it's just a five piece trying to perform it.

I think I might have the HOB show on VHS.  I'll have to take a look.  I caught ARW on AXS TV and wasn't impressed with Awaken and wasn't impressed at all.

[jammindude]

I’ve only ever heard the KTA version, but I think that version is amazing!!

[ytserush]

I agree.  Awaken is mind-blowing on the album, and on the Union tour (the only time I've seen Yes) it was amazing.  But I've never heard a live recording of the song that I thought did it justice.  The majesty, the power, the glory... are all lacking.

Not really a big fan of Awaken, but I have to admit experiencing it on the Union Tour was quite the experience.

[romdrums]

Depending on the day, Awaken might be my favorite piece of music, ever. 

[Orbert]

Same here, and most days.