Author Topic: Has DT written a song that you consider to be the greatest of all time?  (Read 1374 times)

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Offline AboutToCrash

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A lot of people have a favourite song of all time. With so many artists in the world and 80 odd years of recorded music to pick from has DT for you personally written a track that you consider greater than them all? In my listening experience Breaking All Illusions to me is the greatest song ever written. It has everything, musically and lyrically phenomenal and it really connects with me on a personal level (before BAI was written Octavarium was #1). Please let me know if DT has done the same for you, if so I’d be interested to know what song it is!

Offline EPIC Outro

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Almost certainly, though it would be hard to choose which one. If it were an album, I consider Scenes From a Memory to be the best thing ever recorded. But for a single song? Very tough call. Maybe Finally Free, Metropolis Pt. 1, Scarred, or Dissappear, for me.

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I'd say it's Learning To Live. It has everyting what progressive music has to have. Plus there is an iconic vocal moment very well-known by the music community.
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Offline geeeemo

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For me it is Octavarium. It used to be Master of Puppets, until I discovered DT and then Octavarium. It is such a unique song, There is nothing like it. It builds to a fantastic climax, a curiosity about what it means, and just so many interesting layers. Every time I listen I feel like there is more that I could figure out about it. It never gets old.

Offline EPIC Outro

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The last five minutes of Octavarium is the most epic music ever written.

Offline RoeDent

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No. There is no "greatest", only favourites.

Offline Elite

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No. There is no "greatest", only favourites.

:tup

Definitely agree with this standpoint.
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Offline KevShmev

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This is all subjective of course, and yes we are talking about favorites more than objectively saying something is THE best, but while DT doesn't have my favorite all-time song, if I had to do a top 25 or 30, DT would probably have three in there (Voices, Scarred and Learning to Live).  This is of course based on my own personal tastes.

Offline Architeuthis

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Octavarium,  illumination Theory,  The Bigger Picture,  and Barstool Warrior all quality as far as I'm concerned.
  There are more songs to mention but I didn't want to get carried away.  :)
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Offline Anxiety35

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My favorite DT song is A Change of Seasons. It has everything in it that I like in music. To me, it's my favorite piece of music.

Online MirrorMask

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Music is so subjective, and there are so many different and uncomparable genres, that it's kinda hard to have a single favorite song to be considered "greatest of all time".

I can tell, echoing some of the posts before me, that I can call Scenes from a Memory my "favorite album ever", but then again it's an honorary title because:

- I heard it in my formative years of my tastes in music
- I had the immense surpise of seeing it in the store without knowing anything about before, huge surprise
- It is actually a mindblowingly and godly awesome album

But I claim it's my "favorite album ever" because of those reasons, the memories associated with it, it's not that I listen to it regularly after 20 years, this year I heard it exactly once, and it was when it was played live at my concert.

I can also agree that the ending of Octavarium, especially live, gives goosebumps, and all in all my personal favorite DT song is Metropolis (podium is completed by A Change of Seasons and Voices). But I can't bring myself to take it to the next level and label any song as the "greatest of all time".
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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For me it is Octavarium. It used to be Master of Puppets, until I discovered DT and then Octavarium. It is such a unique song, There is nothing like it. It builds to a fantastic climax, a curiosity about what it means, and just so many interesting layers. Every time I listen I feel like there is more that I could figure out about it. It never gets old.

I came here to write exactly this. Like word for word lol.
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Offline JediKnight1969

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Metropolis Pt. 1

The perfect song.
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Offline TAC

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Learning To Live is my #1 song of all time.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline CrimsonSunrise

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ACOS has been my favorite piece of music ever written since it came out.  Nothing even comes close.

Offline Revenge319

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ACOS has been my favorite piece of music ever written since it came out.  Nothing even comes close.

I do think there's a couple songs that come close, but I definitely agree with you otherwise.

Offline Indiscipline

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Learning To Live is my #1 song of all time.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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No, although Learning To Live is the closest for me, which is somewhere in my top 5.
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Offline krands85

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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time. Space-Dye Vest is probably my favorite song in general. I'm one of those people.

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Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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I used to be a Metropolis Pt. 1 kind of guy as far as my favorite DT song, but these days I lean towards LTL, and Scarred not too far behind. As far as it being my favorite song of all time? I would say no, but it comes close relatively speaking. It would land in my top 50 at the very least.

Offline Northern Lion

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The last five minutes of Octavarium is the most epic music ever written.

I totally agree, even if Octavarium isn't among my favorite songs as a whole, that last 5 minutes is spine tingling good, and I can't think of a more powerful 5 minutes of music anywhere in any genre.

However, if I were to pick a whole song, I think I would pick The Ministry of Lost Souls.  Again, this isn't my favorite DT song, but I do like it quite a bit.  There's just so much to it musically and I love the Lyrics and story of the song.  It's just beautiful.  I've often thought that if DT was to do a part II of another one of their songs this one would be a good choice.
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Offline Peter Mc

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The answer is no for me. Learning To Live would be up there but not my favourite of all time. That title belongs to (and probably always will) Wanted Dead Or Alive by Bon Jovi. That to me is perfection, perfectly produced, perfectly performed and completely timeless. Yes the lyric are a bit cheesy with the whole cowboy/touring band metaphor but it doesn’t matter. Just has a magical feel for me.

Offline MoraWintersoul

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The answer is no for me. Learning To Live would be up there but not my favourite of all time. That title belongs to (and probably always will) Wanted Dead Or Alive by Bon Jovi. That to me is perfection, perfectly produced, perfectly performed and completely timeless. Yes the lyric are a bit cheesy with the whole cowboy/touring band metaphor but it doesn’t matter. Just has a magical feel for me.
That's a really great song though. Everything about it is perfect.

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Offline pg1067

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I couldn't even begin to say conclusively that a particular song is my all-time favorite, but Metropolis and Learning to Live and maybe a couple other DT songs would definitely be on the short list.


Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.

Objectively?

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Offline Max Kuehnau

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I can name you my favourite DT song to date (Outcry), but I never thought about what the greatest song of all time is to me.
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Offline Revenge319

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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.

Objectively?

I think what they mean is that they think that it's great from a more objective perspective, as in, judging it based on its composition, production, etc., without any bias on how much they like the song. For me, I think that on a more "objective" level, The Dance of Eternity is absolutely brilliant. However, I don't get that much enjoyment out of it; I think it tends to lose my interest in the last couple minutes. Therefore on a "subjective" level, I personally think it's great but nothing amazing, but on a more "objective" stance, I think it's truly amazing how much effort went into the song, and it's amazing that Dream Theater can play a song so complex. So looking at it from an "objective" stance is still an expression of one's opinion, but how much you personally enjoy the song isn't a factor.

At least, that's how I've always seen it.

Offline hunnus2000

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While I would never proclaim any artist or song or movie the greatest of all time I've always thought that Illumination Theory is a brilliant piece of work!  :metal  :metal

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.

Objectively?
The answer you already got is great, what I also mean is that it has everything a great song should have. Excellently written lyrics illuminating something at the heart of the human condition, excellent instrumentation, composition that simply goes from great to amazing to perfect, fireworks, it's got just everything and there's not a single thing even mildly changeable about it.

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Don't try to BS her about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.
You consistently make so much sense, and express yourself so eloquently, that I've decided you're basically a female version of robwebster.

Offline pg1067

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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.

Objectively?
The answer you already got is great, what I also mean is that it has everything a great song should have. Excellently written lyrics illuminating something at the heart of the human condition, excellent instrumentation, composition that simply goes from great to amazing to perfect, fireworks, it's got just everything and there's not a single thing even mildly changeable about it.

My point is that there's nothing objective about any of that.  Whether the lyrics are "excellently written" is a matter of subjective opinion.  I'm not sure what "excellent instrumentation" means.  It's got guitar, bass, keys, drums and vocals.  If you're saying the tones are nice, that's also subjective, and things like "[c]omposition that simply goes from amazing to perfect" and "not a single thing even mildly changeable about it" are pretty much the height of subjective statements.

Look...I LOVE the song and share your opinions about it, but there's nothing at all objective about it.


I think what they mean is that they think that it's great from a more objective perspective, as in, judging it based on its composition, production, etc., without any bias on how much they like the song. For me, I think that on a more "objective" level, The Dance of Eternity is absolutely brilliant. However, I don't get that much enjoyment out of it; I think it tends to lose my interest in the last couple minutes. Therefore on a "subjective" level, I personally think it's great but nothing amazing, but on a more "objective" stance, I think it's truly amazing how much effort went into the song, and it's amazing that Dream Theater can play a song so complex. So looking at it from an "objective" stance is still an expression of one's opinion, but how much you personally enjoy the song isn't a factor.

Saying that "objectively" "means . . . that [she thinks] that it's great from a more objective perspective" is circular.  In order to judge something objectively, there have to be criteria.  If we define "objectively greatest" to mean the song that has the most time signature changes, then TDOE probably wins.  That's objective.  We can count the time signature changes in every song and compare the numbers.  If we define it as the song that has sold the most copies and has had the most airplay, we can count and compare those things.  But I'm not at all understanding the distinction that you're trying to draw between objective and subjective.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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I'm also not a fan of the word "objectively" in that context, but I think the intent is to express another perspective that's based more on certain objective qualities than personal preferences or biases. Obviously it's impossible to disregard them perfectly (it's still the same person's opinion, & the objective qualities are up for the person to decide), but I think that's the intent. Perhaps "neutral" would be a more accurate description, but I don't know.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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I'm also not a fan of the word "objectively" in that context, but I think the intent is to express another perspective that's based more on certain objective qualities than personal preferences or biases. Obviously it's impossible to disregard them perfectly (it's still the same person's opinion, & the objective qualities are up for the person to decide), but I think that's the intent. Perhaps "neutral" would be a more accurate description, but I don't know.
Thank you. For some reason, we all talk about objectively good books and movies but music can never be objectively described as good or bad because it's all about tastes or something. Learning To Live is up there along with songs like Under Pressure, The Winner Takes It All, Stairway To Heaven, and so on. Just because it's obscure and has more genre-specific characteristics doesn't make it any less good.

My point is that there's nothing objective about any of that.  Whether the lyrics are "excellently written" is a matter of subjective opinion. 
I'll just do this one. What's the last classic novel you've read, and why is it well written (because all of them are)? Is it because of the relevant topic that remained fresh over a century or two somehow, the technicalities such as word usage, the emotion it gives you and many other people who read it, is because the author got what he was talking about through to everyone? All of that at once and more? Songs can be "objectively" judged in the same way.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 07:18:16 AM by MoraWintersoul »

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Don't try to BS her about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.
You consistently make so much sense, and express yourself so eloquently, that I've decided you're basically a female version of robwebster.

Offline The Walrus

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No.

Offline bosk1

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Yes.
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Offline Northern Lion

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I'm also not a fan of the word "objectively" in that context, but I think the intent is to express another perspective that's based more on certain objective qualities than personal preferences or biases. Obviously it's impossible to disregard them perfectly (it's still the same person's opinion, & the objective qualities are up for the person to decide), but I think that's the intent. Perhaps "neutral" would be a more accurate description, but I don't know.
Thank you. For some reason, we all talk about objectively good books and movies but music can never be objectively described as good or bad because it's all about tastes or something. Learning To Live is up there along with songs like Under Pressure, The Winner Takes It All, Stairway To Heaven, and so on. Just because it's obscure and has more genre-specific characteristics doesn't make it any less good.

My point is that there's nothing objective about any of that.  Whether the lyrics are "excellently written" is a matter of subjective opinion. 
I'll just do this one. What's the last classic novel you've read, and why is it well written (because all of them are)? Is it because of the relevant topic that remained fresh over a century or two somehow, the technicalities such as word usage, the emotion it gives you and many other people who read it, is because the author got what he was talking about through to everyone? All of that at once and more? Songs can be "objectively" judged in the same way.

I agree.  There are qualities in all types of art that can be evaluated in a more objective way.  And those qualities may or may not equal how much you like that particular piece.  An example for myself would be two books by Ernest Hemingway.  For Whom the Bell Tolls and To Have and Have Not.  Although I enjoyed both books, I liked reading To Have and Have Not more because of the adventure aspect.  But, I think most Hemingway fans would agree that For Whom the Bell Tolls is objectively the better book.

However, I also don't really like the term "objectively" because as humans we are inherrantly flawed and biased and true objectivity just doesn't exist imho.

Many people in the literary world put a lot of stock into Harold Bloom's Western Cannon and consider it objective and authortitative.  I agree, it's a pretty good list of authors who have had tremendous influence on literature as we know it today.  It's an educated opinion but still an opinion.

I'm not sure why I just wrote all that :).
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