Author Topic: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business  (Read 1422 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« on: April 05, 2020, 11:08:05 AM »
I think this has been touched on a little in other threads, but I thought it would be a good topic for its own thread.

With COVID-19 not going away any time soon (barring a miracle), it is hard to envision most bands getting back to business on the concert circuit until next year at the earliest. I know some are already booking dates for the later this year, but I think that is simply a case of getting a jump start on locking down venues on the off chance that touring can happen. 

And when you think about how most nowadays make a living through touring, not selling records, I can't help but wonder if this will be the death knell for a lot of bands who can't afford to sit around for a year, not to mention their road crews, and will seek other options to make a living sooner rather than later.

I have more to say, but these are the immediate thoughts that came to mind.

Note: I realize the the heath and long term effect on everyone in the world is far more important, so this is not an attempt to minimize the importance of that. 

Offline Nachtmerrie

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2020, 12:42:33 PM »
I think the economic impact is greatly underestimated and the damage will be much bigger then the damage of the virus itself.
The entertainment industry is suffering and I'm only hoping that the virus will peak in the coming weeks so thing can get back to normal and we'll be watching sports, concerts and stuff in the summer.

If summer festivals and tours are cancelled it will have a big impact on everyone involvoled and we'll probably see promotors and venues go bankrupt.

In the meantime I'm trying to do the little things that help the small businesses as much as possible:
- buy a Haken shirt & the new album while I would normally wait until June
- buy tickets for Baroness & Periphery in Juni while I know there's a big chance the shows will be cancelled
- buy my craft beers directly from the local brewery that had to close it brewpub

I'm trying to avoid the big webshops and supermarkets that will survive and probably benefit from this crisis.

Offline HOF

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2020, 12:56:21 PM »
What I really hope is that bands will dig deep during this down time and create some really memorable music. I’m sure even recording might be complicated right now, but the technology is there for bands to still get stuff done. No, it won’t replace concert revenue, but at least for bands with dedicated fan bases I think it would help keep them afloat and they may find greater demand at the moment. One can hope at least.

Offline goo-goo

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2020, 04:32:02 PM »

- buy my craft beers directly from the local brewery that had to close it brewpub

I'm trying to avoid the big webshops and supermarkets that will survive and probably benefit from this crisis.

That's what I'm doing (mostly).

I think physical media will also take a hit. A lot of pressing plants and merch companies will be affected and some will close limiting production. I think the biggest vinyl pressing plant had a fire right before the outbreak. In the end, some of the bands that do business with these companies will not have product to sell affecting the bands.

There's a picture or a graphic showing on how Periphery diversifies and does their business in order to survive doing music. They have their music and merch of course, but they also have software and hardware companies, teaching, clinics, and other sources. A lot of bands will have to change their model on just relying on their music (and a lot of bands and artists have since the demise of the CD due to streaming). 

Offline Harmony

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2020, 04:45:20 PM »
It will undoubtedly impact the music industry in numerous ways.  Those struggling bands/artists are not going to get noticed.  Bands/artists with moderate followings may survive but it will be painful (I've already seen live stream videos with links to funding sources).  Higher profile bands/artists hopefully have enough to take the hit long term, but who knows?  I know of one big name artist who has stated that if he can't keep touring, he'll be forced to sell his home/land.  This is uncharted territory.

Same with comedians and actors/actresses.  Yesterday there was a fundraiser show on social media featuring 6 hours (I think) of relatively famous comedians doing a telethon of sorts to raise money for struggling comedians who are unable to do gigs right now.  I watched the first 90 minutes, it was pretty on-the-fly but there were some funny moments.

I think we're going to see more of these type of things.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2020, 04:46:41 PM »
I think the economic impact is greatly underestimated and the damage will be much bigger then the damage of the virus itself.

This has been my thoughts all along.  If we ever do recover from this, it will take years IMO.
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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2020, 11:12:15 AM »
bands will likely have to rely on supplemental sources of income, Patreon and other Crowd Sourced outlets.

Assuming production still can happen, Merch may be their #1 source of Band revenue, so you may see bands selling more T-Shirts than ever.

Albums will be recorded through mail/email

Fans will be paying for live streams like on Stageit.com

this likely won't impact many of the bands I love anyway, since most of them don't earn all that much touring. Many of them are just lucky to break even.

Offline Nick

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2020, 11:26:00 AM »
not to mention their road crews, and will seek other options to make a living sooner rather than later. 

I was just having a discussion with someone on this topic a few days ago. This person was crew to an act that had their tour cancelled halfway through their run and returned home. He mentioned that per their contract the crew was paid for their time on the road, so essentially from when they came over for rehearsals through when they returned home, but that was it. Not placing blame on the band, but from the crew perspective it's been tough. Since returning home the band has been pushing tour merch, had a fan fundraiser set up for them, and have been giving lessons to people. Meanwhile the crew has been hit incredibly hard. They only got half the tour income they were expecting, and returned home to absolutely no available work whatsoever. Don't need a lighting engineer if you don't have gigs. Don't need a sound guy if you don't have gigs, and don't need a tour manager if there is no tour. I hope their home country ends up pulling together to make sure they are taking care of, but from this gentleman I paraphrase: "When this is all over and the band is ready to go back out I don't know if we'll be there, we may not financially survive this".
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Offline Nick

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2020, 11:32:32 AM »
In general I think this is going to really put a strain on your mid-level bands. Guys like Roger Waters are going to take a bit of financial hit, but we know he'll be okay, and if he's a decent enough guy he'll make sure his band is taken care of as well. Smaller acts are building on the road and don't typically use it as a money making venture.

Mid-level acts, playing bigger clubs and theaters will have a rough go. On the bottom end of the scale you have bands that have flexible day jobs, but their band has reached a point they can count on regular touring to supplement their income. Then you have a step up and you have bands that between touring and other musical endeavors such as mixing or lessons can make due, but can't make it work without the touring. And a little further up you have bands like Dream Theater who are expected to tour year after year to some degree and count on income from those tours to pay the bills. I'm not saying that's the exact position they are in, but good enough for the general point.

Everyone at those levels could be hit really hard by this, especially if bans on larger gatherings go on a long time.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2020, 11:49:48 AM »
I'm generally of two minds on this; one, I've gotten so much pleasure from live music that I hope it's a viable alternative in the future.  And I hope all the people that have made that possible come out of this able to continue what they love.   But I also see the other side; I wish I had a job that I got to tour the world and hang with cool musicians and not live the 9-to-5 lifestyle, so it's a trade off.  With reward comes risk.

I would like to think the industry as a whole would survive this, and there would be a sort of reckoning in the future.  How do we cut out the middle man? How do we make income streams more steady? 

One thing I do know for fairly certain:  no one is really going to be happy with the changes.  We've not seen anything like COVID-19 before, but we certainly have seen these types of industry-disruptive things before, and the outcomes never seem to really satisfy everyone.  One way to do it is to organize the back-stage staff into an organization or company (NOT a union!) so that if Johnny Amplifier can't road for Alter Bridge, the service can put them on a P!nk tour or a Mumford and Sons tour.   Maybe even coordinate by location or venue, so that they can do a couple shows by multiple tours in a geographic region.  That way, we can justify having those people on staff with benefits if the situation warrants.  Takes some of the "cowboy" lifestyle out of the equation, and makes it more of a "job", but with that comes upside.   With less risk, comes cost.

Offline ariich

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2020, 01:13:24 PM »
not to mention their road crews, and will seek other options to make a living sooner rather than later. 

I was just having a discussion with someone on this topic a few days ago. This person was crew to an act that had their tour cancelled halfway through their run and returned home. He mentioned that per their contract the crew was paid for their time on the road, so essentially from when they came over for rehearsals through when they returned home, but that was it. Not placing blame on the band, but from the crew perspective it's been tough. Since returning home the band has been pushing tour merch, had a fan fundraiser set up for them, and have been giving lessons to people. Meanwhile the crew has been hit incredibly hard. They only got half the tour income they were expecting, and returned home to absolutely no available work whatsoever. Don't need a lighting engineer if you don't have gigs. Don't need a sound guy if you don't have gigs, and don't need a tour manager if there is no tour. I hope their home country ends up pulling together to make sure they are taking care of, but from this gentleman I paraphrase: "When this is all over and the band is ready to go back out I don't know if we'll be there, we may not financially survive this".
I assume this was a UK band, and the UK has now instituted a scheme from 1 March that will pay self-employed people up to 80% of their usual earnings if they can't work due to covid-19, and similarly for employees who can't work the government is covering up to 80% of their salaries while they are not working. The important thing is for people to be taking advantage of these schemes while they are available.

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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2020, 11:55:56 AM »
I think it would be a good idea for bands to get creative selling merchandise during this shutdown. They could make masks with the band logo and whatnot.
 Iron Maiden especially,  could you imagine people walking around looking like Eddie..  (I mean this in a light hearted way, hopefully not too inappropriate).

 On a serious note, something positive may come out of all of this. I'm sure a lot of musicians and bands are writing good music during this shut down. We may get a wave of really good album releases in the near future.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2020, 12:20:47 PM »
It would seem like with the technology today that a 'virtual live' show could happen. Each member record their parts in their own locations....mix all their sounds together...then just sell it online. I'd pay $20 to watch Haken play Affinity Live in it's entirety online. I don't need a stage show or anything like that....I personally just like the 'live' sound.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 12:37:27 PM »
I think that will become a thing.  You'll have to cap how many can watch a concert at once on your site, due to bandwidth and not wanting to crash the server, but I am sure the more tech-savvy artists could figure a way to do it.  Hell, you could almost make it a weekly thing. Imagine a band or solo artist doing a concert online every Friday for like $10 where they play a lot of different songs every week.  Not the same thing as seeing it live, but I suspect a lot of fans would be plunking down to see them, and it would probably help keep artists afloat till normal touring can resume again sometime next year (I am not buying any stories of touring being feasible the rest of this year, given the way things are now).

Offline Nachtmerrie

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2020, 12:39:07 PM »
It would seem like with the technology today that a 'virtual live' show could happen. Each member record their parts in their own locations....mix all their sounds together...then just sell it online. I'd pay $20 to watch Haken play Affinity Live in it's entirety online. I don't need a stage show or anything like that....I personally just like the 'live' sound.

While I enjoy watching the occasional YouTube video I don't think a virtual show like that will ever replace a real live experience for me.
I certainly can't imagine paying the same amount I'm paying for a 'real show'.
On the other hand I understand why it might be appealing to others not having to travel to watch your favorite band play live.

It might be common reality sooner then we all think with all the idiots out there screaming it gonna takes us op to 18 months if we ever get back to normal life.
I'm pretty sceptic about these predictions because it's the same people that where calling for millions of deaths and have proven to be wrong week after week.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2020, 01:08:10 PM »
You know what would be cool, is if they incorporate Live Streaming, as they are doing it now, into future shows. They'll sell tickets as usual and if they're close to selling out, or on the day of the show, offer the Live Streaming service for a slightly smaller price than show ticket price. And make the show available to buyers only for a couple days.

I wouldn't mind that at all, if I can't attend the show for some reason. Especially if I was going to attend but can't, maybe an option to switch

Of Course, this all depends on How the Streaming services work.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2020, 08:07:24 AM »
I can do without live streaming - it just doesn't seem to work for me - but something did occur to me.   I bought the "Queen BBC" box set not long ago, I bought the Deep Purple box set that had about 15 BBC tracks on it, and I just ripped the Zeppelin "Complete BBC Sessions" to my hard drive... why not bring that back?   

Get a band, bring them into the Beeb and let them re-record, under limited conditions, their best tracks or new tracks.   It can all be done remotely, if need be, and will give a chance to revisit some things, explore new things.  The results can be posted on line, downloaded, or burned to a cheap CD like Kiss and Peter Gabriel did on some of their tours.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2020, 09:57:44 AM »
Live streaming holds no interest for me at all. Stadler's idea is definitely something I can get behind.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2020, 10:04:17 AM »
Someone convince DT to re-record 'When Dream and Day Unite'.  That'd be fun to listen to.


While I enjoy watching the occasional YouTube video I don't think a virtual show like that will ever replace a real live experience for me.

I agree. A live experience will always trump an online one. But, if the projections and rumors are true.....It's Fall of 2021 before live concerts are going to get back into the swing of things. That's a long way off. I think in the next 12-14 months it'd be nice to get a fix from your favorite bands with some sort of 'live' online experience. I'm not talking dropping the $60-80 like a live experience but I'd pay $20 for sure.
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2020, 10:16:44 AM »
Someone convince DT to re-record 'When Dream and Day Unite'.  That'd be fun to listen to.


That would be great. As much as I like the YTSEJAM release, it's hard to understand the lyrics on some songs they way JLB sang.

Offline Nachtmerrie

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2020, 12:25:01 PM »
Someone convince DT to re-record 'When Dream and Day Unite'.  That'd be fun to listen to.


While I enjoy watching the occasional YouTube video I don't think a virtual show like that will ever replace a real live experience for me.

I agree. A live experience will always trump an online one. But, if the projections and rumors are true.....It's Fall of 2021 before live concerts are going to get back into the swing of things. That's a long way off. I think in the next 12-14 months it'd be nice to get a fix from your favorite bands with some sort of 'live' online experience. I'm not talking dropping the $60-80 like a live experience but I'd pay $20 for sure.

Let's just hope the projections and rumors are just that... If it turns out to be true I still don't see myself paying € 20 as most of the liveshows I'm seeing are around € 25 - € 40 (bands like Haken, Leprous, TesseracT among others. € 5 - € 10 might be reasonable otherwise I''ll rather spend the money on vinyl/cd.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2020, 01:08:30 PM »
Selfish note:  grew up a big Alice Cooper fan during his hey day.  Then saw him in '87, and a couple of times two years ago with my wife.  I couldn't believe how much fun we BOTH had, how good his current bandmates were, and how he somehow still has 'it'.  Bless her heart, for xmas she bought us meet n greets for this summer.  Well...I've been waiting for the announcement, and just now it was cancelled.

I feel for the musicians (and agents, roadies, etc) of any artist.  They've got good gigs, and now it's all on hold.  I can guess that more than a few had high financial expectations, and with that much higher debt, and some are going to be in real bad financial shape (if they aren't already).
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Offline HOF

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2020, 01:21:03 PM »
Someone convince DT to re-record 'When Dream and Day Unite'.  That'd be fun to listen to.


That would be great. As much as I like the YTSEJAM release, it's hard to understand the lyrics on some songs they way JLB sang.

I listened to WDADU for the first time in forever the other night. It’s really a pretty good prog metal effort, especially for a first album. It sounds terrible but that’s not really the band’s fault. It would be awesome if they re-recorded it, even if they had to do it with everyone recording their parts in their own studio and mailing them in. Heck, they could probably get MP to play on some/all of it (though probably not KM), and I bet it would make everyone some quick money. If they don’t need the money, then put it towards the band’s road crew or something.

Offline mike099

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2020, 01:39:28 PM »
Since the tour was cancelled, Rivers of Nihil better be in the studio with a followup to Where only Owls Know My Name.

Seriously, I am concerned about small bands like the above and the small venues like the Exit Inn and The Cannery in Nashville.
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2020, 07:49:22 PM »
You know, if this pandemic is what is going to bring down Ticketmaster, so be it.  Those greedy monsters needs to have their time of humility.  So the story for them is this.  I think in the past, Ticketmaster had their TOS state that they will offer refunds for shows that are cancelled or rescheduled.  Now in light of the pandemic, a lot of shows that were to happen this month, next month, the summer shows, etc. are being rescheduled and Ticketmaster "subtly" changed their TOS to state only "cancelled" shows has the option of offering refunds which doesn't seem to fair for people that bought tickets and planned to go at a certain date and now they find that the show is fairly rescheduled and they cannot make the make-up date.  A member of the House of Representative, Katie Porter, had made her thoughts about it as well.

https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-change-refund-policy-backlash/

https://loudwire.com/katie-porter-slams-ticketmaster/

Offline TAC

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2020, 07:52:53 PM »
I just got an email the other day from Ticketmaster that the Alice Cooper concert in Boston in June has officially been cancelled, and I should see my refund within 30 days.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Stadler

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2020, 09:52:33 PM »
You know, if this pandemic is what is going to bring down Ticketmaster, so be it.  Those greedy monsters needs to have their time of humility.  So the story for them is this.  I think in the past, Ticketmaster had their TOS state that they will offer refunds for shows that are cancelled or rescheduled.  Now in light of the pandemic, a lot of shows that were to happen this month, next month, the summer shows, etc. are being rescheduled and Ticketmaster "subtly" changed their TOS to state only "cancelled" shows has the option of offering refunds which doesn't seem to fair for people that bought tickets and planned to go at a certain date and now they find that the show is fairly rescheduled and they cannot make the make-up date.  A member of the House of Representative, Katie Porter, had made her thoughts about it as well.

https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-change-refund-policy-backlash/

https://loudwire.com/katie-porter-slams-ticketmaster/

Never understood the "Ticketmaster are greedy bastards" argument.   

Scalpers.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2020, 08:26:44 AM »
You know, if this pandemic is what is going to bring down Ticketmaster, so be it.  Those greedy monsters needs to have their time of humility.  So the story for them is this.  I think in the past, Ticketmaster had their TOS state that they will offer refunds for shows that are cancelled or rescheduled.  Now in light of the pandemic, a lot of shows that were to happen this month, next month, the summer shows, etc. are being rescheduled and Ticketmaster "subtly" changed their TOS to state only "cancelled" shows has the option of offering refunds which doesn't seem to fair for people that bought tickets and planned to go at a certain date and now they find that the show is fairly rescheduled and they cannot make the make-up date.  A member of the House of Representative, Katie Porter, had made her thoughts about it as well.

https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-change-refund-policy-backlash/

https://loudwire.com/katie-porter-slams-ticketmaster/

Never understood the "Ticketmaster are greedy bastards" argument.   

Scalpers.

They charge about 50% the ticket price for a service fee. Plus, they have "Platinum Tickets" that are priced based on demand. Which end up costing over $200, these are the good seats in the lower bowl for my local LN venue. Oddly, Pit tickets are quite a difference cheaper than those reserved seats. Now, what about the shows without a pit. You're paying that Platinum ticket price. Which only helps if theirs not much ticket sales by the time the show date happens.

They have a monopoly on Tickets. Which is also why I've noticed bands use other ticketing services when you use their website to buy tickets.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2020, 09:08:37 AM »
Ticketmaster "subtly" changed their TOS to state only "cancelled" shows has the option of offering refunds which doesn't seem to fair for people that bought tickets and planned to go at a certain date and now they find that the show is fairly rescheduled and they cannot make the make-up date.
How is this even legal?

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2020, 09:11:48 AM »
I assume any business can change their ToS at any point. It's their terms, after all.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2020, 10:09:57 AM »
You know, if this pandemic is what is going to bring down Ticketmaster, so be it.  Those greedy monsters needs to have their time of humility.  So the story for them is this.  I think in the past, Ticketmaster had their TOS state that they will offer refunds for shows that are cancelled or rescheduled.  Now in light of the pandemic, a lot of shows that were to happen this month, next month, the summer shows, etc. are being rescheduled and Ticketmaster "subtly" changed their TOS to state only "cancelled" shows has the option of offering refunds which doesn't seem to fair for people that bought tickets and planned to go at a certain date and now they find that the show is fairly rescheduled and they cannot make the make-up date.  A member of the House of Representative, Katie Porter, had made her thoughts about it as well.

https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-change-refund-policy-backlash/

https://loudwire.com/katie-porter-slams-ticketmaster/

Never understood the "Ticketmaster are greedy bastards" argument.   

Scalpers.

They charge about 50% the ticket price for a service fee. Plus, they have "Platinum Tickets" that are priced based on demand. Which end up costing over $200, these are the good seats in the lower bowl for my local LN venue. Oddly, Pit tickets are quite a difference cheaper than those reserved seats. Now, what about the shows without a pit. You're paying that Platinum ticket price. Which only helps if theirs not much ticket sales by the time the show date happens.

They have a monopoly on Tickets. Which is also why I've noticed bands use other ticketing services when you use their website to buy tickets.

As long as there are scalpers selling for more than the ticket price - fees or no fees - those arguments don't hold water.   It doesn't matter what the cost structure of Ticketmaster is, they have risk, and they are entitled to protect that risk in their pricing, as virtually every (non-commodity) business does. 

As long as there is demand post-sale date, pre-show date, those tickets were undervalued at the time of sale.  I'm not sure how anyone can complain about buying something undervalued. 

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: COVID-19 and its long term effect on the music business
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2020, 10:33:42 AM »
For me, it comes down to this. I pay money in advance to see a show at a particular date.  The show is not happening at the specific date due to a legit reason so it gets rescheduled.  Fine with me.  I don't think I can make it to the rescheduled show due to various reasons.  I want to go ahead and get my refund and have that ticket be available for someone else to purchase it at the face value that I paid for.  Of course, when I contacted Ticketmaster about one of those shows a few weeks back, they did inform me that ticket buyers do still have the option to resell the tickets themselves if they cannot make it to the rescheduled date (which no one will buy any resale tickets right now since it's hard to tell when it's ok for us to go back to going to concerts).

I just feel like Ticketmaster could have built some form of goodwill in light of this pandemic.  Of course, they are not obligated to, but it would still be nice to give us the illusion that they are looking out for their customers in these rough times.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:39:33 AM by Anguyen92 »