Can we talk about Tiger King for a sec?

[gmillerdrake]

Just read an article where Antle goes off on the producers. Says that he had about 6-8 interactions with them over two years and that he was led to believe they were filming a documentary on wildlife preservation....particularly his work in Africa. That, questions about Joe and Carol came up a few times in the hundred of other questions but that he repeatedly said he didn't want to be involved in that feud.

He criticized them portraying him as having multiple wives....saying, he's had one wife, the mother of his son and daughter but that she had died years ago. He said yes, he does have girlfriends but the majority of the women you see in the documentary are mostly girlfriends of his male employees (of which he was also ticked about saying that 50% of his employees are male yet you never saw one on camera)  and relatives like grandchildren and nieces.

He also stated that the blurb about him getting raided was a glorification of the fact that he was working with the Government on sharing Tiger DNA. He said the accusation of him euthanizing Tiger cubs after they aren't profitable was ridiculous.



So, who really knows. I think we know that certainly it's a 'show' and that Netflix would do all they could to spice it up. It doesn't surprise me that they'd cherry pick the footage from their time with Antle to fit their story.....but, at the same time....that entire industry is suspect to say the least.

[Chino]

This personal message from Howard Baskins in worth a watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5rS839-ig

[gmillerdrake]

This personal message from Howard Baskins in worth a watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5rS839-ig

Wow. If that doesn't speak to how easily a 'show' can be crafted to fit a vision I don't know what does. I mean, the guy in that video was not the guy they had on their show. The footage of their reservation was misleading when you see the 'actual' park from above.

With him and Antle barking back like this.....I wonder if it'll make a dent in the opinion that has already been formed about it all?

[faizoff]

I for a second don't doubt that the documentary misrepresented a lot of things or just failed to clarify on occasions letting you believe things as shown. It's really the nature of how Netflix has done docs before. Was I entertained by the whole thing? unfortunately yes, and a ton of it is a bizarre train wreck, but I for sure knew while watching that they made things look even weirder on purpose.

[gmillerdrake]

I for a second don't doubt that the documentary misrepresented a lot of things or just failed to clarify on occasions letting you believe things as shown. It's really the nature of how Netflix has done docs before. Was I entertained by the whole thing? unfortunately yes, and a ton of it is a bizarre train wreck, but I for sure knew while watching that they made things look even weirder on purpose.

Yeah....me too. I mean, it's not as if that entire industry isn't shady and filled with some questionable folks....I guess I'm just more mad at myself for getting swept up in it at 'face value' rather than realizing in the moment that although it's ate up.....it was also heavily directed to get certain points across.

[Chino]

This personal message from Howard Baskins in worth a watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5rS839-ig

Wow. If that doesn't speak to how easily a 'show' can be crafted to fit a vision I don't know what does. I mean, the guy in that video was not the guy they had on their show. The footage of their reservation was misleading when you see the 'actual' park from above.

With him and Antle barking back like this.....I wonder if it'll make a dent in the opinion that has already been formed about it all?

Only using footage from the one day a year Big Cat Rescue is open to the public for a fundraiser was a pretty low blow. 

I'd bet money that Discovery Channel finds a way to spin this off into a series.

[lonestar]

 

[gmillerdrake]

This personal message from Howard Baskins in worth a watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5rS839-ig

Wow. If that doesn't speak to how easily a 'show' can be crafted to fit a vision I don't know what does. I mean, the guy in that video was not the guy they had on their show. The footage of their reservation was misleading when you see the 'actual' park from above.

With him and Antle barking back like this.....I wonder if it'll make a dent in the opinion that has already been formed about it all?

Only using footage from the one day a year Big Cat Rescue is open to the public for a fundraiser was a pretty low blow.

Totally. Along with never showing the true scale of the enclosures they allow those cats to roam in.

[faizoff]

I think they did kinda show how big of a rescue area it was when Joe went over with a helicopter, it just wasn't under the right context.

[The Walrus]

I might just watch this series again this weekend...

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

This personal message from Howard Baskins in worth a watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5rS839-ig

Heard alot about this show recently and was curious. Seeing that video made me less curious. 

[Elite]

This personal message from Howard Baskins in worth a watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5rS839-ig

Watching that made me feel really bad

[KevShmev]

Yep, seeing the Howard Baskins video really makes you wonder what is true and how much the showrunners manipulated what they had in the editing room to get the reaction they wanted.  Reminds me a little of How to Make a Murderer, where the showrunners of that one were clearly trying to make the viewing public think that Avery might not be guilty.

Regardless, Tiger King was a heckuva watch. I finished it today and was thoroughly entertained the whole time.

[cramx3]

Watched this last night and this morning, really entertaining and outrageous. 

[Stadler]

So I'm three episodes in; it's.... odd, having had such powerful expectations, and listening to the comments here and elsewhere.   

The interesting thing to me is, with all the "expectations", I'll be watching something - the shot of the "will" in episode three, for example, or when they introduced "Doctor" Baghavan Antle - and I'll pause it and say something crazy insane just to be funny ("why did it specifically call out 'disappearance'"; "he's touched an animal inappropriately, I'll guarantee it") to my daughter and she'll be like "just watch".   And basically something like that comes out before too long.  I'm sure it'll change as we go on, but actually, for me, Joe Exotic isn't the craziest dude here; he surrounds himself with whack (the head zookeeper, and his first husband with the teeth) but I don't think - yet - he's TOTALLY off the reservation.   Doc Antle, on the other hand...  My jury is still out on Carol Baskin; I'm disturbed by her total obliviousness to her role in all this, and her tendency to laugh when dealing with the heavier of subjects.   She's not showed even one glimmer of remorse or culpability or... for lack of a better word, sorrow, at any of the things that she's experienced or been through.   Editing, I get, but still. 

Funny thing, there's a scene in the second episode and it shows some of his animals at a facility on the boardwalk in Myrtle Beach, SC. I've actually been there a couple years ago, totally oblivious to the controversy surrounding the whole deal.

[The Walrus]

Yeah, you haven't seen Joe go Full Crazy yet 

[Adami]

Joe is pretty crazy, but more so I'd say he's just dumb. He's immensely eccentric. While Carol and Doc whatever are also rather eccentric, they're smart enough to not want everything filmed. Doc being the smartest of them. But Joe? No, he wants EVERYTHING filmed. Every bad decision. Every eccentricity. He has zero insight into how he actually seems. That's why he seems so crazy. He is crazy, but more so because he just wants everyone to see everything.

[The Walrus]

Oh yeah. And god bless Tom Waits for filming all of it.

[Stadler]

Oh yeah. And god bless Tom Waits for filming all of it.

Haha, I thought it was Scott Glenn, but yeah!      I liked the one scene where he stopped talking and very purposefully took a sip of his tea/coffee.   

[Stadler]

Joe is pretty crazy, but more so I'd say he's just dumb. He's immensely eccentric. While Carol and Doc whatever are also rather eccentric, they're smart enough to not want everything filmed. Doc being the smartest of them. But Joe? No, he wants EVERYTHING filmed. Every bad decision. Every eccentricity. He has zero insight into how he actually seems. That's why he seems so crazy. He is crazy, but more so because he just wants everyone to see everything.

Will I know to what you're referring if I keep watching?  He is smart, but I don't think ANY of them are really THAT smart, because while they may or may not want everything filmed, they're still too narcissistic to keep it ALL off the screen.  TRULY smart would be to say "no comment" and close the gate. 

[Zantera]

Maybe I have a different perspective as non-american but I feel like this documentary should be a bit of an eye opener for some people in regards to guns? The fact someone like Joe Exotic has assault rifles, goes out and blows things up, shows clear anger issues in his videos (shooting dolls, blowing up items) and also goes on the news to say "if they come here to take my tigers i will defend myself" basically saying there will be a shootout. I know some americans are quite touchy on that subject and they want their weapons but to me it just seemed like an extra bizarre layer on an already bizarre story.

[Adami]

Joe is pretty crazy, but more so I'd say he's just dumb. He's immensely eccentric. While Carol and Doc whatever are also rather eccentric, they're smart enough to not want everything filmed. Doc being the smartest of them. But Joe? No, he wants EVERYTHING filmed. Every bad decision. Every eccentricity. He has zero insight into how he actually seems. That's why he seems so crazy. He is crazy, but more so because he just wants everyone to see everything.

Will I know to what you're referring if I keep watching?  He is smart, but I don't think ANY of them are really THAT smart, because while they may or may not want everything filmed, they're still too narcissistic to keep it ALL off the screen.  TRULY smart would be to say "no comment" and close the gate.

Oh, that's why I said "smartest of them." Not independently smart by any means. Just compared to Carol and Joe, what Doc allowed to be filmed and what the others did. He walked away with a lot more held to the vest.

[Chino]

[hefdaddy42]

*vomits*

[Stadler]

"She" looks vaguely like Yoda in that picture.

[kaos2900]

The show is very entertaining but it's a bummer that these "documentaries" are sold a truth when they really aren't.

[Adami]

The show is very entertaining but it's a bummer that these "documentaries" are sold a truth when they really aren't.

I think it really depends. Yes, some things in this were portrayed differently than they really are, but it would seem that most of it, especially the stuff at Joe's place was pretty accurate.

And the only thing Doc Antle said wasn't accurate was that he didn't kill cubs. Obviously he's going to say that. The biggest "lie" thus far has been that the documentary portrayed Carol as having her sanctuary open to the public every day, when it's only open one day a year or something. The rest are people saying that they didn't like how it portrayed them.

[Stadler]

The show is very entertaining but it's a bummer that these "documentaries" are sold a truth when they really aren't.

It's been a trend, hasn't it?  I can't tell you when it started but they certainly are not "journalism" in the sense of a complete recitation of the facts and leaving it to you (us, the viewer) to decide.   I get that most stories don't fit that neatly into the model, but with one exception*, I have yet to really be moved by a doc without there being SOME piece of necessary information that was known at the time and failed to make the final cut.  For this, Howard Baskin's video; the "Some Kind Of Monster" doc, with some of the background regarding James; the "SuperSize Me" doc and some of Morgan's underlying health issues, etc.   

* The Rush doc, Beyond The Lighted Stage.

[Zantera]

While there's definitely an element of 'lets twist things a bit to make the documentary more interesting' I still think there's enough dirt in there that a video of her husband saying "trust me, she's a good woman" isn't quite enough to make me swing the other way either. Whether she did play a part in her husband disappearing or not might never be proven but I can definitely understand why the filmmakers would bring it up, because it's an interesting piece to the puzzle.

[ChuckSteak]

A ticket to the freakshow, front row seat. 

[millahh]

My two thoughts:

-I don't think that the most likely explanation is that she killed her husband. Even before he seemed to get spooked right before he disappeared, he was hiding cash and gold bars in secret underground vaults, was flying small airplanes from private airports under the radar to Costa Rica, was dealing in large volumes of expensive cars, and neither his lawyer nor his security guy will say anything about his business dealings (not even "investment").  Seems much more sensible that this was drug-related...and that he may have self-disappeared (the "if I can pull this off" quote).  That would also square with the power-of-attorney thing (and if he was dealing drugs, he knew his body might never be found if he crossed the wrong people).

-Joe Exotic is fucking nutballs, but he's the only one of the main people (Exotic, Baskins, Antle, Lowe, Garretson) who I think is up-front and transparent about who he is.  Not saying he's a good person by any stretch, but I don't feel like he's trying to hide a more sinister nature.

[KevShmev]

Maybe I have a different perspective as non-american but I feel like this documentary should be a bit of an eye opener for some people in regards to guns? The fact someone like Joe Exotic has assault rifles, goes out and blows things up, shows clear anger issues in his videos (shooting dolls, blowing up items) and also goes on the news to say "if they come here to take my tigers i will defend myself" basically saying there will be a shootout. I know some americans are quite touchy on that subject and they want their weapons but to me it just seemed like an extra bizarre layer on an already bizarre story.

I am by no means one of those "keep your hands off my guns" 2nd amendment defenders, but I don't think it's fair to assume that all or most gun owners are crazy nut jobs like Joe Exotic who have anger issues and are anxious to instigate Waco Part 2.

[The Walrus]

As usual, you put on camera the people who are most entertaining or wild to observe. So, no, not all Americans who love guns are caricatures like Joe Exotic.

Plenty of gun owners treat and love their firearms the way us music nerds treat our audio media.

[Chino]

Despite how crazy Joe is/was, I don't think it's too hard to understand why a guy and his employees, who are surrounded by 200 tigers, would want firearms on standby.

[KevShmev]

I have to admit that when they showed the sign that said something to the effect, "We don't call 911 around here, we use guns (which I think was pictured)," I thought to myself, "Ted Nugent would be so proud."