Can we talk about Tiger King for a sec?

[Chino]

I have to admit that when they showed the sign that said something to the effect, "We don't call 911 around here, we use guns (which I think was pictured)," I thought to myself, "Ted Nugent would be so proud."

Everyone knows that a gun is the best way to reattach an arm that's been ripped off by a tiger 

[Stadler]

Maybe I have a different perspective as non-american but I feel like this documentary should be a bit of an eye opener for some people in regards to guns? The fact someone like Joe Exotic has assault rifles, goes out and blows things up, shows clear anger issues in his videos (shooting dolls, blowing up items) and also goes on the news to say "if they come here to take my tigers i will defend myself" basically saying there will be a shootout. I know some americans are quite touchy on that subject and they want their weapons but to me it just seemed like an extra bizarre layer on an already bizarre story.

I am by no means one of those "keep your hands off my guns" 2nd amendment defenders, but I don't think it's fair to assume that all or most gun owners are crazy nut jobs like Joe Exotic who have anger issues and are anxious to instigate Waco Part 2.

AND

As usual, you put on camera the people who are most entertaining or wild to observe. So, no, not all Americans who love guns are caricatures like Joe Exotic.

Plenty of gun owners treat and love their firearms the way us music nerds treat our audio media.

I'm reluctant to write this, because I'm only four episodes in, and I know there's at least one event that could make what I write invalid, but it is my feeling at the moment, so I'll share it:  what ACTUALLY has he done (up through the fourth episode) that's so egregious?   There was only one scene so far that I really thought "uh, oh, bad things are going to come of this" related to a gun, and that was when he pointed the gun right at the camera then started walking toward it, and right when he got to the camera he pointed the gun upward and it went off (I watched it twice and am not sure if he purposefully pulled the trigger).  Again, things could change, but up to now, shooting mattresses and water isn't the most egregious thing in the world, and certainly not a sign of "gun" carelessness. 

[The Walrus]

Well, again, you need to finish it. I'm not gonna spoil it for you. Get through episodes 5 and 6 and tell me if you feel the same way.

[Adami]

I mean, I don't see any huge signs that Joe is a danger with a gun, but I can see a lot of concerns.

It depends on what your standards are. Did he just go and shoot someone? No. Did he actively break the law........with a gun? Not that I could see. But I don't think that's what people are saying. Like I said, it depends on the standards being used.

[The Walrus]

I'm not sure if I'd place this as a sign of 'danger' but it sure is alarming; how about those webcam snippets of him shooting in the head a blow-up doll made to represent Carole with a dildo in its mouth? 

[Stadler]

I'm not sure if I'd place this as a sign of 'danger' but it sure is alarming; how about those webcam snippets of him shooting in the head a blow-up doll made to represent Carole with a dildo in its mouth? 

Well, again, episode four, so...   

Not to argue, but to discuss, but so what?  Does asking your girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make you a pedophile?  It's all in the intent, isn't it?

[Adami]

I'm not sure if I'd place this as a sign of 'danger' but it sure is alarming; how about those webcam snippets of him shooting in the head a blow-up doll made to represent Carole with a dildo in its mouth? 

Well, again, episode four, so...   

Not to argue, but to discuss, but so what?  Does asking your girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make you a pedophile?  It's all in the intent, isn't it?

That's why I said it's about the standards being used. You seem to be using legal ones.

Does a guy asking his girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make him a pedophile? Of course not.

Would you let that guy baby sit your 9 year old daughter, assuming he wasn't some close friend?

[The Walrus]

I'm not sure if I'd place this as a sign of 'danger' but it sure is alarming; how about those webcam snippets of him shooting in the head a blow-up doll made to represent Carole with a dildo in its mouth? 

Well, again, episode four, so...   

Not to argue, but to discuss, but so what?  Does asking your girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make you a pedophile?  It's all in the intent, isn't it?

It doesn't really do much good to argue this when you haven't seen the last three episodes. I can't argue back without spoiling it for you, so please just watch those first. I think, though, after saying multiple times, "This is what I want to see happen to that bitch Carole" and then firing bullets into an effigy of said Carole or any other number of objects, that's plenty reason enough to call it "alarming behavior." Don't really think I'm stretching there. This ain't a courtroom, Jack, we're just talking about human behavior.

[Stadler]

I'm not sure if I'd place this as a sign of 'danger' but it sure is alarming; how about those webcam snippets of him shooting in the head a blow-up doll made to represent Carole with a dildo in its mouth? 

Well, again, episode four, so...   

Not to argue, but to discuss, but so what?  Does asking your girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make you a pedophile?  It's all in the intent, isn't it?

That's why I said it's about the standards being used. You seem to be using legal ones.

Does a guy asking his girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make him a pedophile? Of course not.

Would you let that guy baby sit your 9 year old daughter, assuming he wasn't some close friend?

I'm not trying to limit to legal ones; rather, I'm thinking about it from the general aspect as opposed to the specific one.

I really think I'm unusual in that I don't assume that because it's right for me, it's right for everyone.   It's not that black and white.

I'd have to think about your question; I mean, I probably wouldn't let him baby sit, but I don't think it's for that reason alone.   The hardest thing I ever had to do with my kid growing up was let her be in the company of her friends' fathers as a general rule.  I'm paranoid like that.   

But having said all that, it's not up for me to decide.  I would never in a million years suggest that laws be tailored to what I feel comfortable with (or don't).  And yet, that seems to be the prevailing wisdom for a lot of people these days (but I think I digress.)

[Stadler]

I'm not sure if I'd place this as a sign of 'danger' but it sure is alarming; how about those webcam snippets of him shooting in the head a blow-up doll made to represent Carole with a dildo in its mouth? 

Well, again, episode four, so...   

Not to argue, but to discuss, but so what?  Does asking your girl to put on pony tails and a jumper make you a pedophile?  It's all in the intent, isn't it?

It doesn't really do much good to argue this when you haven't seen the last three episodes. I can't argue back without spoiling it for you, so please just watch those first. I think, though, after saying multiple times, "This is what I want to see happen to that bitch Carole" and then firing bullets into an effigy of said Carole or any other number of objects, that's plenty reason enough to call it "alarming behavior." Don't really think I'm stretching there. This ain't a courtroom, Jack, we're just talking about human behavior.

More than fair, and I appreciate you being considerate.  (Seriously.)

[The Walrus]

Yeah, and I want you to finish those episodes so we can talk about the juicy bits within. Like the 'flash' and the reaction. You'll know what it is.

[ReaperKK]

New episode is out today, I haven't watched it yet but I will in a few.

[NoseofNicko]

New episode? What?

[lordxizor]

It's Joel McHale interviewing many of the people from the doc about their thoughts and what's been going on since filming ended.

[faizoff]

It was a great catch up episode and good to hear some of the thoughts of the cast. I have no idea if they're all telling the truth so who knows on that front. If I read correctly Joel McHale has 7 more of these.

[Phoenix87x]

Apparently, there was a limo waiting outside prison for Joe exotic with the expectation that he would have been pardoned. oops 

https://nypost.com/2021/01/20/joe-exotic-with-limo-waiting-fails-to-get-trump-pardon/

[Stadler]

I heard that, and still don't know what to make of it.   I mean, I suppose in the sense that with Trump anything was possible, it was a reality, but I think it ultimately was wishful thinking.

And you can always tell people who over-estimate their place in the world; to think that this guy is "famous" enough to get the attention of a President is sort of hubris.  The same kind of hubris that would ride around in a car like that.  Didja ever notice that REAL celebrities and persons of power wouldn't be caught dead in a vehicle like that?    When I saw Bruce Springsteen arrive at the theater for his Broadway show, he rolled up in a GMC Suburban (or similar; it was a black SUV).   

[Chino]

I heard that, and still don't know what to make of it.   I mean, I suppose in the sense that with Trump anything was possible, it was a reality, but I think it ultimately was wishful thinking.

And you can always tell people who over-estimate their place in the world; to think that this guy is "famous" enough to get the attention of a President is sort of hubris.  The same kind of hubris that would ride around in a car like that.  Didja ever notice that REAL celebrities and persons of power wouldn't be caught dead in a vehicle like that?    When I saw Bruce Springsteen arrive at the theater for his Broadway show, he rolled up in a GMC Suburban (or similar; it was a black SUV).

That's because at Springstein's age, getting in and out of a limo is probably tough 

I kid, I kid. That dude's in crazy good shape and is a class act.

[Orbert]

Very late to this party -- actually I seem to have completed missed it, which is okay with me -- but seeing this thread come back around reminded me of something.

I heard about Tiger King during its run last year, and was also told that as an animal lover, I probably wouldn't want to watch it.  I'm not really an animal lover, but I do like cats, especially tigers (in case it wasn't obvious from my avatar).  Someone who knew my fascination with tigers warned me not to watch this show.

Here's the fun part.  Apparently I went to high school with Jeff Lowe.  Jeff was a year younger and went to the same high school as me.  Later, he moved north of town and had a pet cougar named Rambo.  Rambo escaped one time and killed a neighbor's dog, and ultimately had to be shot by county sheriffs.  This was back in the 80's.  I remember hearing about it on the news because who keeps a cougar as a pet?  Apparently Jeff Lowe.

[Chino]

Very late to this party -- actually I seem to have completed missed it, which is okay with me -- but seeing this thread come back around reminded me of something.

I heard about Tiger King during its run last year, and was also told that as an animal lover, I probably wouldn't want to watch it.  I'm not really an animal lover, but I do like cats, especially tigers (in case it wasn't obvious from my avatar).  Someone who knew my fascination with tigers warned me not to watch this show.

Here's the fun part.  Apparently I went to high school with Jeff Lowe.  Jeff was a year younger and went to the same high school as me.  Later, he moved north of town and had a pet cougar named Rambo.  Rambo escaped one time and killed a neighbor's dog, and ultimately had to be shot by county sheriffs.  This was back in the 80's.  I remember hearing about it on the news because who keeps a cougar as a pet?  Apparently Jeff Lowe.

Jeff Lowe was just recently ordered by a judge to hand over all animals at his facility (Exotic's facility before he went to jail) for inhumane treatment. 

[Stadler]

Very late to this party -- actually I seem to have completed missed it, which is okay with me -- but seeing this thread come back around reminded me of something.

I heard about Tiger King during its run last year, and was also told that as an animal lover, I probably wouldn't want to watch it.  I'm not really an animal lover, but I do like cats, especially tigers (in case it wasn't obvious from my avatar).  Someone who knew my fascination with tigers warned me not to watch this show.

Here's the fun part.  Apparently I went to high school with Jeff Lowe.  Jeff was a year younger and went to the same high school as me.  Later, he moved north of town and had a pet cougar named Rambo.  Rambo escaped one time and killed a neighbor's dog, and ultimately had to be shot by county sheriffs.  This was back in the 80's.  I remember hearing about it on the news because who keeps a cougar as a pet?  Apparently Jeff Lowe.

I don't know if it's hard to watch or not; I was sad, but it wasn't like I was in tears begging for relief for these cats.   Having said that, I can't imagine you'd be looking forward to seeing Jeff Lowe at your reunion.  He comes off as a pretty big dick. 

[Orbert]

Yeah, I read through this entire thread, looking for anything regarding Jeff, and all I got out of it was that he was an asshole.  His name came up in the Facebook group for my high school class.  Someone had posted about him because Tiger King was pretty well known for a while and there was a connection.  No one in my class remembered him, including me, and since he was in the year after me, he won't be at our reunions.

[faizoff]

Aside from the whole "can't tear my eyes away from watching a train wreck" aspect of the show, I too found it incredibly sad for the animals. The whole thing was a weird awful sad reflection on a slice of society and I'm kinda angry at myself for watching it. I don't like reality TV and the documentary was more or less disguised and presented as some bastion of truth telling. I get that Netflix has to do whatever it can to get people hooked on their shows. Going forward I am extremely skeptical of any documentary they produce. I should have realized that when they did Making a Murderer. I never watched the 2nd part and never will.

[Orbert]

I saw an promo or two for Tiger King last year when it was hot.  It never occurred to me that it was a documentary; it always looked like a reality show, and while one might think that those two formats have a lot in common, in my mind they do not.  To me, a documentary is an attempt to "document" -- to present events in a more-or-less unbiased way.  A reality show pretends to give you reality, when in fact the events are usually staged or scripted, or at the very least you only get what the producers give you in order to push a certain agenda or viewpoint.  Tiger King looked like that.

[faizoff]

Well Netflix (or the producers) are blurring those lines and kinda staging the setups to make things look a certain way, no doubt some of it is batshit crazy regardless of the circumstance, still I don't like the manipulation.

[Stadler]

For those of you that don't read the P/R forum, I will post there occassionally, and one thing I say a lot is "it's all related".  And this is an example of that.   Our society isn't big on facts; we are big on "stories".  I think documentaries have followed the lead of mainstream media, which is less interested in just presenting the basic, bland facts, than painting a story and delivering an "angle". Sometimes this is rationalized as "giving someone a voice", which really SOUNDS like a great and noble thing, but when NO ONE in the story is even "good" (let alone "great") or "civil" (let alone "noble") it creates problems.  Add to that the prevailing idea that "screen time" is a ticket to general success and you have a recipe for a disaster.  There are ABSOLUTELY people in that doc that either before hand or during it's filming got the idea that they could parlay this into celebrity.  I'm not just talking about Joe Exotic; Carol Baskin has been making the rounds (she was on Dancing With The Stars, blathering about 'getting her truth out there' or some shit (in quotes because it's bullshit, not as a direct quote from anywhere)).   That guy from South Carolina, the one with a taste for younger girls, Kevin Doc Mahamayavi Bhagavan Antle is another one.

[Orbert]

Way back in the 20th century, I remember watching the occassional documentary on TV.  They were always black and white; World War II, the Truman presidency, whatever.  It never occurred to me that they presented anything other than the truth, although I realize now that that was naive.  There's always an agenda.

Still, I have considerable trouble with showing "reality TV" and calling it documentary.  It's fucking reality TV, which means none of it is actually real other than what you're seeing is what cameras actually caught (and sometimes not even that).

[lordxizor]

Way back in the 20th century, I remember watching the occassional documentary on TV.  They were always black and white; World War II, the Truman presidency, whatever.  It never occurred to me that they presented anything other than the truth, although I realize now that that was naive.  There's always an agenda.

Still, I have considerable trouble with showing "reality TV" and calling it documentary.  It's fucking reality TV, which means none of it is actually real other than what you're seeing is what cameras actually caught (and sometimes not even that).

In fairness to the Tiger King documentary crew, I think they probably originally intended it to be a documentary, but it turned into such a shit show that they had almost no choice but to turn it into a reality tv style thing.

[Stadler]

I'm less forgiving of them than you are.   I think it was their job to not pretend these are ordinary, regular people.   Carol Baskin has said repeatedly she felt "duped" by the producers, and that baffles me.  There's no "dupe" if it's a straight recitation of the facts. 

There could have been more background and context too; I remember the series of interviews with the guy that supposedly "offered" to go to Florida and kill Carol.  There HAD to be more to that aspect of the story, because he veritably confessed to at least three felonies, and nothing was ever heard of him again.  Then there's the guy that was supposedly the informer, but also seemed to be an insider...  there were a lot of questions that weren't even asked let alone answered satisfactorily.  I tend to think they went for the sensationalism on a story that didn't have a nice pat ending wrapped up with a bow.  My opinion only.

[Chino]

I'm less forgiving of them than you are.   I think it was their job to not pretend these are ordinary, regular people.   Carol Baskin has said repeatedly she felt "duped" by the producers, and that baffles me.  There's no "dupe" if it's a straight recitation of the facts. 

She was duped though. That's legit. She was under the impression that the crew was there to get footage of the park and its operation (which they technically did), but they were still deceptive about what image they were trying to paint. Her facility is closed to the public outside of very small, pre-scheduled tours. One weekend a year, they open the park to the public as part of an annual fundraiser for the cause. The camera crew chose that particular time window to get 90%+ of the footage they used of Big Cat Rescue. They never told the audience about that, and in turn, her facility ended up looking like an over-crowded tourist attraction (like Joe's) that focused more on ticket sales and foot traffic than it did the wellbeing of the animals. The producers told her they were making a documentary that would be to large cats in captivity what Blackfish was for whales and dolphins at places like Sea World. She let them in hoping her voice could help shut down facilities like Joe's, and they instead used hers as another example. They told her the documentary was going to be called Wildlife Stolen (or something like that), and that Joe Exotic was going to be hardly in it (he was the star). I think she's justified in being pissed.

[DragonAttack]

Well, Jeff Lowe's legal woes continue

https://nypost.com/2021/01/19/tiger-king-star-jeff-lowe-must-turn-over-cubs-due-to-alleged-abuse/

And....I saw this on Fbook recently.

[Chino]

 


https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/m611ag/tiger_king_but_better/

[gmillerdrake]

https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/m611ag/tiger_king_but_better/

What did I just watch       Good Lord

[lonestar]

What the fuck. 

[hefdaddy42]

I made it 34 seconds.

Don't post shit like that here, sullying the great Tiger King name.