Author Topic: The Politics Of The Coronavirus  (Read 38233 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1260 on: February 23, 2021, 11:52:55 AM »
Couple quick Stadler-esque questions:
CTV has the story as well (though they didn't run the entire statement).

- What does the background have to do with it?  Skelly's position is either accurate or it's not, and he has a legit constitutional challenge or not. Both the question of fact and the question of law is for a court to decide.  Absent Rebel News making this all up - which they are not - I'm not sure what's at issue here.

- Why "nonsense"?  Isn't he entitled to defend his business?   Some of what he said doesn't ring true to me, and he's certainly taking a more aggressive, sensationalist way about it, but the CTV was pretty clear that the lockdown order was not universally loved, and he's not the only one that disagrees with it.

Unrelated: I liked his gallon plastic tub of water.   That's a man who takes his hydration seriously.  :) 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 01:04:57 PM by Stadler »

Offline Adami

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1261 on: February 23, 2021, 11:58:04 AM »
Heís entitled to do whatever he wants. Including that nonsense.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1262 on: February 23, 2021, 12:55:58 PM »
I did watch about 12 seconds of this, which is all that it's worthy of, and yes, did see the CTV mics.  For starters, I was genuinely curious why you posted this.  It's a hole-in-the-wall restaurant in the 'burbs of Toronto, and a link from a D-list media outlet.  You post it with no context or rationale ... bumping this thread after a month of no activity.  There had never been any discussion of this story when it was actually a story (although, overblown as it was by the Toronto media).  This isn't the kind of headline news I'd expect would be top priority for anyone in the US, let alone someone 2000 miles away - it's not even meaningful news for me, and I saw this story daily when it was all over the news in the fall.  Again, I was genuinely curious what the your thought process was.

The restaurant was a nothing food joint that no one but neighbourhood locals had heard of before the media frenzy for about a week last Fall.  The guy has had issues with the city by-laws in the past, and decided to take it upon himself to publicly broadcast he was going to open despite the lockdown measures.  He organized planned "protests" (if you want to call them that) to spit in the face of local ordinances, and caught his 15 minutes of fame.  He drew the attention of every anti-mask'g group that also wanted their 15 minutes of fame.  He was an obstinate fuck that purposefully riled up these groups and individuals that held similar beliefs, to the point he actually damaged his own property just to defy the local health orders.  The story disappeared for a few months, and now he's trying to get another 15 minutes of fame as an anti-mask / COVID-deny'r.

And Rebel News is nothing more than a couple of clowns with a camera and microphone that chase anti-'Left' stories.  Well, read the wiki page, that sums it up.  "Canada's version of Breitbart"  :lol
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1263 on: February 23, 2021, 01:17:39 PM »
This is something that is best said in person, because it's going to sound way more dick-ish than it's intended to be when written down, and I'm not here to answer for Ben, but...

The problems here aren't the size of the restaurant, the list of the media, the overblown-ness of the story, or the past antics of the owner.  The problem is, he's either right or he's wrong on his facts and his law, and those other things aren't a variable in that equation.  The answer - and to be fair, CTV didn't really do this either, although they tried in part - is to say "No, Adam, there wasn't a commensurate surge in hospital occupancy in 2017, 2018, 2019.    No, Adam, the death tolls are not inclusive of other causes of death, these are death tolls IN ADDITION to all the other ones from 2017, 2018, and 2019."

For me, I know nothing about this restaurant; it might taste like ass for all I know.  But I DO know that I have a similar establishment near me (one I used to frequent a lot; I played softball for them for a number of years) and while the owner isn't like this guy, he's also feeling the squeeze of the shutdowns here.  He hasn't made it national like Skelly, but he defied the local orders and played dumb when he got caught (he tried to compare dealing with COVID like dealing with ordinary food bacteria).   So it has a relevance to it.

The attacking of the character isn't what changes minds; it's the information and the sources to counter his.  Teach these people that don't know, rather than marginalize them.   I know better because I've looked some of that stuff he refers to up (for my own state); so the "facts" he's stating ring false.   The rest of it, the procedural stuff, is legit, though, so calling him or his restaurant "nonsense" or "nothing" can, I think, sound like he should just shut up and take it like a man sheep man instead of having his day in court.

Am I misunderstanding? 

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1264 on: February 23, 2021, 03:40:48 PM »
Thanks for that reply Jingle. That was a great informational post.

For me, What is interesting here is this guy doesn't like the lockdowns. Yet is actually doing something about it and fighting it. That's what caught my interest about it.

And as Stads puts it. We have a ton of local restaurants here that have been feeling these effects. The same way this guy is feeling the effects. It's just that there not going to the lengths he is, and it would be interesting if they did.

And also. I am not intending to sound dickish as well. It's what I say tends to sound like that written, but I'll tell you, it won't come across that way if I were to explain it in real life.
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Offline Vmadera00

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1265 on: February 24, 2021, 09:01:12 AM »
At least he didn't try to run over a policer officer when they were trying to arrest him.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/staten-island-bar-gm-arrested-after-defying-closure-again-hitting-deputy-with-car/2763715/

This was all over the news around here when it happened.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1266 on: February 24, 2021, 09:06:16 AM »
At least he didn't try to run over a policer officer when they were trying to arrest him.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/staten-island-bar-gm-arrested-after-defying-closure-again-hitting-deputy-with-car/2763715/

This was all over the news around here when it happened.

  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Allegedly, though... :biggrin:

Why the hell would you run away from your own business? That's what I find funny, talking about all this stuff and just runs away when it comes down to it and doesn't even Stand His Ground and fight.  :lol
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1267 on: February 28, 2021, 09:17:03 AM »
Wanna see something great...


image upload

"Anyone who seeks to violate BODILY INTEGRITY is in the business of DEHUMANIZATION"

Now...Does this Bodily Integrity apply to forced vaccinations too?
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1268 on: March 02, 2021, 05:01:52 PM »
Thoughts on the multiple states opening wide? Too soon maybe?

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1269 on: March 02, 2021, 07:34:15 PM »
Thoughts on the multiple states opening wide? Too soon maybe?

Ya think?

These Gub'ners would be the kind to take the parachute off once they slow their rate of descent to just 50 ft/second.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1270 on: March 02, 2021, 08:41:36 PM »
I read it and it's not as bad as people are making it seem it is.

It's basically The State having good-faith in it's people to STRICTLY FOLLOW the mandates set out in the State's Health Department.  Business and Local Governments still can require people to wear masks. If a business or place requires a mask, they can kick you out of the store. A store also, doesn't have to require one to wear a mask. They won't be able to jail you, fine you, for not wearing a mask. It's only if you just can't socially distance 6ft, you should wear one, but no one's going to force you to do it.





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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1271 on: March 02, 2021, 09:03:32 PM »
Having faith in the people? If the shitshow that we've witnessed this last year on how people respect the science and their fellows is the standard, then the people of Texas are fucked. I personally expect massive parties, packed bars, all masks gone everywhere within a week, with a massive spike in cases in four. This is a political handjob from Abbot, an effort to make everyone look away from the debacle with the energy grid.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1272 on: March 02, 2021, 09:21:00 PM »
Having faith in the people? If the shitshow that we've witnessed this last year on how people respect the science and their fellows is the standard, then the people of Texas are fucked. I personally expect massive parties, packed bars, all masks gone everywhere within a week, with a massive spike in cases in four. This is a political handjob from Abbot, an effort to make everyone look away from the debacle with the energy grid.

We'll just have to wait and see.  :corn

In the meantime, I will stay away from Texas, and if you want to blame anyone, blame the people whom go there and visit. No one is forcing you to go to Texas. And also, Texas isn't forcing anyone not to wear a mask.

As I said, you can't have freedom and security. This is just the opposite end of what we experienced last year, and is what Normal was. I think people are actually fearful of going back to that normality.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1273 on: March 03, 2021, 06:03:28 AM »
With a kid and friends in Texas, I worry, but with fam in Florida, that's not a new state of being.

I'll still remind, though:
State         Cases/M   Deaths/M
Texas          92.2           1.5
California     90.2          1.3
Florida         89.3          1.5
Conn           79.1           2.2

Florida has been mocked for over a year for, well, everything, but most notably their laxness when it comes to COVID protocols; Spring Break parties, county mandates to NOT wear a mask.    Connecticut has followed in New York's shadow and has been one of the strictest states in the union in terms of travel restrictions and what-not (you still can't travel into CT without restriction).

So there's clearly SOME hyperbole to the uproar.

I rationalize it - and I pick my word very specifically - this way:   You've got a curve that is going down with periodic spikes; if you assume we're never getting to zero - not an outlandish assumption - and that we have to get back to normal at some point, it makes sense to start to lift some of the restrictions.   I'm not a big "don't worry, government will save us!" guy to begin with; I don't mask up myself because Ned Lamont tells me, I don't move away from other people because Ned Lamont tells me.  We've got to start taking on our own responsibilities.   If I want to mask up that's my choice; if someone around me doesn't it's ALSO my choice to not engage in that person.   Foolproof?  Nope.  But it's not foolproof now.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1274 on: March 03, 2021, 08:33:57 AM »
When there are so many variables that go into the case loads and death counts, it's foolish to try and draw meaningful comparisons to those states with geography as the only differentiator.

With increased instances of the "variants of concern", and their increased transmissibility, I'm not sure how removing a mask mandate and removing physical distancing measures is going to improve the health situation.

We don't have to wait and see... we only have to look back to the summer/fall to see what happened to case counts (without the new variants) to have a reliable prediction as to what will likely happen.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1275 on: March 03, 2021, 08:53:49 AM »
When there are so many variables that go into the case loads and death counts, it's foolish to try and draw meaningful comparisons to those states with geography as the only differentiator.

With increased instances of the "variants of concern", and their increased transmissibility, I'm not sure how removing a mask mandate and removing physical distancing measures is going to improve the health situation.

We don't have to wait and see... we only have to look back to the summer/fall to see what happened to case counts (without the new variants) to have a reliable prediction as to what will likely happen.

But Chad, you can't just dismiss data if it doesn't fit nicely with the "common sense" of the moment.  "Common sense" - neither common, nor sensical - is just a substitute for "I don't have a better argument to hand right now".   Yes, there ARE other variables at play here, no doubt but the data suggests that the tropes about California and Connecticut (liberal states widely praised for doing all the right things and populated by sensible, caring people) and Texas and Florida (conservative loony bins run by idiots and/or the corrupt and populated by the stupid and/or greedy) isn't moving the COVID needle.

You say "we don't have to wait and see, we know what's going to happen", but the data doesn't support that.  When we saw all those spring break photos of kids doing belly shots and using their COVID masks as rolling paper, every one said "we don't have to wait and see, we know what's going to happen".  And yet, the data isn't far off a state that locked down entire cities.  One might argue "well, it would have been a lot better if they did what they should have", but that's speculation and not supported by the data.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1276 on: March 03, 2021, 09:13:42 AM »
Look, I buy into the common sense isn't common sense.  Not sure why you interpret my point as using a "common sense" argument.  I'm not debating this with you though, you have a way to defend your position 1000 more ways than I do mine. 

Yes or no... in your opinion, is removing a state-wide mask mandate and fully opening up businesses a good idea? No analysis, no "if this", or "but that", or "by this measurement".  Yes or no?  Your opinion.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1277 on: March 03, 2021, 09:18:10 AM »
With a kid and friends in Texas, I worry, but with fam in Florida, that's not a new state of being.

I'll still remind, though:
State         Cases/M   Deaths/M
Texas          92.2           1.5
California     90.2          1.3
Florida         89.3          1.5
Conn           79.1           2.2

Florida has been mocked for over a year for, well, everything, but most notably their laxness when it comes to COVID protocols; Spring Break parties, county mandates to NOT wear a mask.    Connecticut has followed in New York's shadow and has been one of the strictest states in the union in terms of travel restrictions and what-not (you still can't travel into CT without restriction).

So there's clearly SOME hyperbole to the uproar.

I rationalize it - and I pick my word very specifically - this way:   You've got a curve that is going down with periodic spikes; if you assume we're never getting to zero - not an outlandish assumption - and that we have to get back to normal at some point, it makes sense to start to lift some of the restrictions.   I'm not a big "don't worry, government will save us!" guy to begin with; I don't mask up myself because Ned Lamont tells me, I don't move away from other people because Ned Lamont tells me.  We've got to start taking on our own responsibilities.   If I want to mask up that's my choice; if someone around me doesn't it's ALSO my choice to not engage in that person.   Foolproof?  Nope.  But it's not foolproof now.

Yup. Life isn't Foolproof.


 
When there are so many variables that go into the case loads and death counts, it's foolish to try and draw meaningful comparisons to those states with geography as the only differentiator.

With increased instances of the "variants of concern", and their increased transmissibility, I'm not sure how removing a mask mandate and removing physical distancing measures is going to improve the health situation.

We don't have to wait and see... we only have to look back to the summer/fall to see what happened to case counts (without the new variants) to have a reliable prediction as to what will likely happen.

You know what will improve the health situation....eating better so we don't have such high cases of Underlying Conditions that make us susceptible to this disease and being unhealthy enough to even die from it from those conditions.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1278 on: March 03, 2021, 09:42:11 AM »
I spent a bit of time looking at the various states in the past hour or so.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Numbers listed above are correct (hell, put NJ in there and their numbers arenot good). 

Trends are different.  CT, NJ etc were battered at the beginning (which made sense being around NYC).  Significantly dropped afterwards, and then, like every state, surged following the holidays.

Meanwhile, various 'rogue' states rates have jumped, and have continued to do so.  Texas has been #2 in daily deaths in recent days.  So, what does the non scientist governor, who blamed wind and solar power problems for Texas' recent clustereff do? (which, BTW, they were warned about ten years ago for not providing adequate maintenance) 

He lifts all requirements of mask wearing.  The ONE item we know about that reduces transmissions and infections by 600%.   But, I'll bet he'd fight to the death not to allow topless beaches.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 01:10:03 PM by DragonAttack »
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1279 on: March 03, 2021, 09:58:37 AM »
I'm totally onboard with the slow reopening of things, but Texas just saying F it and opening everything and dropping the mask mandate all at once seems a bit too much.  The numbers have been getting better so it makes sense to open things back up, NJ has slowly been doing this.  But with the new mutations and a majority of the population not yet vaccinated, it doesn't make sense to remove all the restrictions as there is currently a race to get everyone vaccinated before more mutations happen that may wipe all the vaccination progress out.  I feel like if we can hang onto for a few more months, we can be in a really good position to be done with the pandemic.  However, rushing to open things back up might put a damper on that and cost us all more in the long run.

The reality is, I think, when the summer comes, if things aren't mostly open and a return to normal isn't well in place, you'll see more of what Texas is doing as people are simply tired of this and want to move on even if that means many more people will die.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1280 on: March 03, 2021, 10:51:16 AM »
I'm good with slow reopening as well, but this fuck all approach is just stupid.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1281 on: March 03, 2021, 11:10:03 AM »
Really interesting Interview with Dr. Mark McDonald by Dr. Drew.

Quote
Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald believes that the real crisis we are facing is not of a medical nature, but a psychological one. He asserts that the bigger societal problem we are confronting is actually a form of mass delusional psychosis caused by

It's timestamped to where the lockdown discussion starts, and the fear.

 Have We Lost Our Minds Collectively? Dr. Mark McDonald

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1282 on: March 03, 2021, 11:15:32 AM »
Really interesting Interview with Dr. Mark McDonald by Dr. Drew.

Quote
Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald believes that the real crisis we are facing is not of a medical nature, but a psychological one. He asserts that the bigger societal problem we are confronting is actually a form of mass delusional psychosis caused by

It's timestamped to where the lockdown discussion starts, and the fear.

 Have We Lost Our Minds Collectively? Dr. Mark McDonald

I stopped less than a minute in when Dr Drew started shitting on the drive to adopt strict measures early on when there were few cases.  Thatís exactly what should have been done and countries that did reaped the benefits later.   Yeah news is hyperbolic and strokes fear thatís absolutely true but that doesnít change the facts of this pandemic

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1283 on: March 03, 2021, 11:19:53 AM »
Really interesting Interview with Dr. Mark McDonald by Dr. Drew.

Quote
Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald believes that the real crisis we are facing is not of a medical nature, but a psychological one. He asserts that the bigger societal problem we are confronting is actually a form of mass delusional psychosis caused by

It's timestamped to where the lockdown discussion starts, and the fear.

 Have We Lost Our Minds Collectively? Dr. Mark McDonald

I stopped less than a minute in when Dr Drew started shitting on the drive to adopt strict measures early on when there were few cases.  Thatís exactly what should have been done and countries that did reaped the benefits later.   Yeah news is hyperbolic and strokes fear thatís absolutely true but that doesnít change the facts of this pandemic

I have a team mate in Australia - I think he's in NSW.  Anyway, speaking with him last week he told me they haven't had a single local case (only incoming travel) in over 30 days.  So yeah, hard lockdowns work - unless things are already out of control.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1284 on: March 03, 2021, 11:31:11 AM »
I'm good with slow reopening as well, but this fuck all approach is just stupid.

Same here.

New York reopened large venues a little over a week ago at 10% capacity. Just now they announced that later this month that can go up to 33% and smaller venue can reopened as well first week of April. I think that's the smart approached, slow reopening. If we continue slow and steady reopening, we could see some sense of normalcy by the summer, given the ramped up in vaccine by J&J.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1285 on: March 03, 2021, 11:54:12 AM »
Really interesting Interview with Dr. Mark McDonald by Dr. Drew.

Quote
Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald believes that the real crisis we are facing is not of a medical nature, but a psychological one. He asserts that the bigger societal problem we are confronting is actually a form of mass delusional psychosis caused by

It's timestamped to where the lockdown discussion starts, and the fear.

 Have We Lost Our Minds Collectively? Dr. Mark McDonald

I stopped less than a minute in when Dr Drew started shitting on the drive to adopt strict measures early on when there were few cases.  Thatís exactly what should have been done and countries that did reaped the benefits later.   Yeah news is hyperbolic and strokes fear thatís absolutely true but that doesnít change the facts of this pandemic

I have a team mate in Australia - I think he's in NSW.  Anyway, speaking with him last week he told me they haven't had a single local case (only incoming travel) in over 30 days.  So yeah, hard lockdowns work - unless things are already out of control.

Certain countries (south Korea I think?) had success early on with massive testing and contact tracing without a big lockdown but failing that yeah there wasnít many options

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1286 on: March 03, 2021, 12:05:25 PM »
Really interesting Interview with Dr. Mark McDonald by Dr. Drew.

Quote
Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald believes that the real crisis we are facing is not of a medical nature, but a psychological one. He asserts that the bigger societal problem we are confronting is actually a form of mass delusional psychosis caused by

It's timestamped to where the lockdown discussion starts, and the fear.

 Have We Lost Our Minds Collectively? Dr. Mark McDonald

I stopped less than a minute in when Dr Drew started shitting on the drive to adopt strict measures early on when there were few cases.  Thatís exactly what should have been done and countries that did reaped the benefits later.   Yeah news is hyperbolic and strokes fear thatís absolutely true but that doesnít change the facts of this pandemic

I have a team mate in Australia - I think he's in NSW.  Anyway, speaking with him last week he told me they haven't had a single local case (only incoming travel) in over 30 days.  So yeah, hard lockdowns work - unless things are already out of control.

Certain countries (south Korea I think?) had success early on with massive testing and contact tracing without a big lockdown but failing that yeah there wasnít many options

South Korea also used cellphone tracing and credit card history to predict hot zones. They were able to determine weeks ahead of time where there'd be areas of rapid spread by looking at the movements of people that were confirmed to have had the virus. If someone went to the hospital with Covid, and their cellphone data showed they went to a restaurant in the days before, the restaurant was made aware. In turn, all the the staff was put on alert and was tested as a result. If someone was on a train with a confirmed case, anyone else on that train got a text message saying so.




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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1287 on: March 03, 2021, 12:07:24 PM »
Really interesting Interview with Dr. Mark McDonald by Dr. Drew.

Quote
Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald believes that the real crisis we are facing is not of a medical nature, but a psychological one. He asserts that the bigger societal problem we are confronting is actually a form of mass delusional psychosis caused by

It's timestamped to where the lockdown discussion starts, and the fear.

 Have We Lost Our Minds Collectively? Dr. Mark McDonald

I stopped less than a minute in when Dr Drew started shitting on the drive to adopt strict measures early on when there were few cases.  Thatís exactly what should have been done and countries that did reaped the benefits later.   Yeah news is hyperbolic and strokes fear thatís absolutely true but that doesnít change the facts of this pandemic

I'm more amazed, and am wondering why that one statement causes one to dismiss the entire hour long interview, and that was the intro and was Dr. Drew, and not anything to do with the Guest interview or what they are discussing.

Seems you have an issue with Dr. Drew and his opinion. He even goes on to state that in their industry they listen to each others opinions. So, based off of that. This isn't about Facts, but about Dr. Drew hearing another one of his fellow Drs. opinions...

If you watch and listen, those facts are not what this discussion is about.

It's about the people that are experiencing people be all hardcore getting in people's faces, and even starting fights for not wearing, and wearing, a mask or not social distancing. Those are the ones whom may possibly have a hint of Mass Delusional Psychosis. And it's on both sides of the fulcrum. And how, Children are experiencing some mental health issues due to the lockdowns, and their parents and the world instilling on them, in which case Dr. McDonald said is happening with forcing the kids to wear masks when the science says they don't have to, this is to that 2 year old that got kicked off the plane. It's all based on what He experienced when he would go places, and also, Dr. Drew himself, and how people assume he caught covid by traveling, when there is no for sure way to know that.

You would know all this if you watched that interview and payed attention and listened without bias. It's hard to do sometimes, but it's how you understand things, and gather information. I didn't like what Dr. Drew said about certain things, but that didn't prevent me from listening to them, or dismissing it all together.

Here's a Timestamp of that video where he explains because someone commented "when did Dr. Drews podcast become a conservative circle jerk?" https://youtu.be/Rfk2XlorKxA?t=1851
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1288 on: March 03, 2021, 12:14:56 PM »
Hope TX is right.  We'll see.

I will add this to the discussion though:  The stated reason and endpoint for lockdowns was to flatten the curve to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed and unable to treat.  In TX (and, if I am not mistaken, most if not every other state as well now), the infection rates and, correspondingly, the hospital rates are well below the danger threshold.  So by that standard, shouldn't they be reopening and lifting restrictions?
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1289 on: March 03, 2021, 12:18:03 PM »
Hope TX is right.  We'll see.

I will add this to the discussion though:  The stated reason and endpoint for lockdowns was to flatten the curve to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed and unable to treat.  In TX (and, if I am not mistaken, most if not every other state as well now), the infection rates and, correspondingly, the hospital rates are well below the danger threshold.  So by that standard, shouldn't they be reopening and lifting restrictions?

Yup. Does everyone now have short term memory and forgot about that.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1290 on: March 03, 2021, 12:23:29 PM »

Hope TX is right.  We'll see.

I will add this to the discussion though:  The stated reason and endpoint for lockdowns was to flatten the curve to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed and unable to treat.  In TX (and, if I am not mistaken, most if not every other state as well now), the infection rates and, correspondingly, the hospital rates are well below the danger threshold.  So by that standard, shouldn't they be reopening and lifting restrictions?



my understanding is that the problem (and I know people who live in Austin, even some that own a brewery/pub)is with lifting everything all at once. 

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1291 on: March 03, 2021, 12:23:37 PM »
Hope TX is right.  We'll see.

I will add this to the discussion though:  The stated reason and endpoint for lockdowns was to flatten the curve to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed and unable to treat.  In TX (and, if I am not mistaken, most if not every other state as well now), the infection rates and, correspondingly, the hospital rates are well below the danger threshold.  So by that standard, shouldn't they be reopening and lifting restrictions?

Yes, but IMO in stages, not all at once.  It's no longer about hospitalizations (as they are not a problem now, our NJ governor actually just tweeted this as well).  The problem is mutations.  More people who get infected, the more likely a new mutation.  So right now there is a race to get people vaccinated before a new mutation comes that wipes all that vaccination effort clean.  Having said that, I certainly do hope TX is right.  I would love to see that be the case and be an example that we can all open up, I just feel like we are very close to the finish line and if we can just be a little more patient, the outcome is much more likely to be positive for everyone long term instead of a quick enjoyment of the openings only to have everyone shut down again. 

As I stated in an earlier post, I feel like if we can just wait until the summer to open everything up, we should be in a good place.  We're hitting the 1 year anniversary, another 3 months of slowly opening up doesn't seem to be asking too much, all things considered.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1292 on: March 03, 2021, 12:39:55 PM »
The stated reason and endpoint for lockdowns was to flatten the curve to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed and unable to treat.  In TX (and, if I am not mistaken, most if not every other state as well now), the infection rates and, correspondingly, the hospital rates are well below the danger threshold.  So by that standard, shouldn't they be reopening and lifting restrictions?

:clap:  Thank you. It was never about making sure 'we' stayed locked down so we didn't catch it.....it was not to overwhelm the hospitals. With the vaccines available and being administered....the number of people who have been infected already (knowingly and unknowingly) and the treatments having evolved over the year to be more effective......restrictions should be lifted.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1293 on: March 03, 2021, 12:42:13 PM »
Yeah, I tend to agree with the "not all at once."  But once you get past the soundbites that the news is reporting, the context doesn't seem to be "Let's return to the wild west."  It's more along the lines of: [paraphrase] "the data does not support that the state-wide emergency powers be continued.  The citizens of this state have shown that you all know what to do to stay safe, so we are leaving it up to you to continue that, and to local county and municipal governments to keep whatever restrictions they believe make sense given what is going on in their specific areas.  But as far as the state, we don't have any business telling businesses that the state is shutting you down, etc."  That's not to say that it still maybe isn't a bit too far too soon.  I'm just saying, it isn't exactly what it is being portrayed as.

Now Mississippi, on the other hand...no comment.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1294 on: March 03, 2021, 12:54:27 PM »
Now that the medical infrastructure is no longer at as high a risk, I don't have a problem with reopening pretty much everything (though I do think there should still be limited capacity for certain industries pending location). The lifting of the mask mandate seems reckless to me and really serves no purpose other than to make some kind of statement. We know masks have played a huge roll at keeping this virus at bay, and outside of wanting to eat/drink or workout hard at a gym, I don't really see the need to do away with them just yet. We're at a critical stage in our recovery here. The last thing we need is to allow the virus to mutate just enough to circumvent our current vaccines. I think taking off the masks in mass too soon carries unnecessary risk. Just wear the mask for like two more months. You can still go to concerts, a movie theater, a bowling alley.. wherever, but please, just wait a little while longer on the mask front.   

I fear that this will signal a false sense or security and cause a lot of the country to declare victory before the battle is over. We're so close to some level of normalcy. We've made it this far. I'd hate to see that thrown away or even just delayed because we were too eager. We can do this safely and smart, but it feels like declaring an end to wearing masks is basically saying "We're done here. Live like you were in 2019". Sadly, I don't think we're quite there yet. I understand that's not exactly what the governor is saying, but it's how a lot of people in Texas and Mississippi (Mississippi is being really stupid here) are going to interpret it.

I foresee lots of problems with businesses still wanting to limit service to mask wearers and that opening up a can of worms.