Author Topic: The Politics Of The Coronavirus  (Read 47080 times)

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1330 on: March 11, 2021, 02:05:18 PM »
Isn't that the Ron Paul approach? Vote against something, but make sure your state is not left out in case it passes?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1331 on: March 11, 2021, 02:07:08 PM »
Isn't that the Ron Paul approach? Vote against something, but make sure your state is not left out in case it passes?
Kinda-sorta. He approached it from the other direction. He'd load up bills with his own pork, and then vote against them out of principle.   :lol
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1332 on: March 12, 2021, 12:31:53 PM »
I don't think Steve Lemson gets the fact that a majority of Repubs were in favor of relief like that, and only voted "no" on that bill because it was more loaded with pork than Brian's smoker on a weekend.

Yeah, and that kind of gotcha op-ed is why we can't get more of those bills passed. I didn't see Wicker taking any credit for it, just announcing it when all is said and done.  Rather than view every statement as a chance for a "gotcha" and a "zinger", why not allow for the fact that Wicker is a graceful loser, having voted his conscience, but recognizing that his constituency is entitled to draw their own conclusions.

Offline Chino

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1333 on: March 12, 2021, 12:35:21 PM »
I don't think Steve Lemson gets the fact that a majority of Repubs were in favor of relief like that, and only voted "no" on that bill because it was more loaded with pork than Brian's smoker on a weekend.

I'm going to take that as a compliment  :lol

Offline Adami

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1334 on: March 12, 2021, 12:41:04 PM »
I don't think Steve Lemson gets the fact that a majority of Repubs were in favor of relief like that, and only voted "no" on that bill because it was more loaded with pork than Brian's smoker on a weekend.

Yeah, and that kind of gotcha op-ed is why we can't get more of those bills passed. I didn't see Wicker taking any credit for it, just announcing it when all is said and done.  Rather than view every statement as a chance for a "gotcha" and a "zinger", why not allow for the fact that Wicker is a graceful loser, having voted his conscience, but recognizing that his constituency is entitled to draw their own conclusions.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1335 on: March 12, 2021, 12:57:29 PM »
I don't think Steve Lemson gets the fact that a majority of Repubs were in favor of relief like that, and only voted "no" on that bill because it was more loaded with pork than Brian's smoker on a weekend.

I'm going to take that as a compliment  :lol

"Smoker"?  Is that what the kids are calling it these days?   :) :) :)

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1336 on: March 12, 2021, 01:29:15 PM »
I don't think Steve Lemson gets the fact that a majority of Repubs were in favor of relief like that, and only voted "no" on that bill because it was more loaded with pork than Brian's smoker on a weekend.

Yeah, and that kind of gotcha op-ed is why we can't get more of those bills passed. I didn't see Wicker taking any credit for it, just announcing it when all is said and done.  Rather than view every statement as a chance for a "gotcha" and a "zinger", why not allow for the fact that Wicker is a graceful loser, having voted his conscience, but recognizing that his constituency is entitled to draw their own conclusions.

And this was a Twitter Tweet. Where the intention and reason goes out the door, and people assume the intent and reason for making that Tweet.  :biggrin:
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1337 on: April 02, 2021, 05:56:19 AM »
I hear what you're saying, Bosk... and you're not wrong.  But I'm kinda with Marc and Brian here... "unnecessary risk".  There are already enough people who are/were 'anti-maskers', so lifting the state mandate is going to have a whole shit-ton of people burning masks like ladies were burning bras were during the women's lib movement - which puts EVERYONE at risk.  And any yahoo should know that when you make changes, you make one change at a time, then measure the effect.  In 3-4 weeks if (when?) cases start spiking again, what's to be done?  Is it because of non-masking, or is it because of the removal of physical distancing/limitations?  Current data is always a reflection of actions and decisions made at least 2-3 weeks prior.

Also, I don't think Texas has flattened any curve - https://covidusa.net/?state=Texas.  Daily case counts are back on the rise.

Did we really go thru 12 months of hell just to celebrate start our touchdown dance at the 5?  God forbid that Texas = Leon Lett and Covid = Don Beebe.

My mindset has always been that, as an individual, I'd rather make the mistake of being TOO cautious, rather than the bigger mistake of not being cautious enough.  I don't understand how or why some broader macro-groups think differently.  :dunno:

March 2nd for Texas:
Daily case count = 6,826
Daily death count = 275

Let's see what it is on April 3rd.  It'd be great if ya'll can rub this in my face that you were right, and my fears were wrong.  I have a very clear memory of typing this very thing just about a year ago.

I wanted to be the first to call myself out.  Here we are month later, and I'll give kudos to Texas, and am thrilled (especially given how many close colleagues of mine are Texan) that opening up before seeing the downward in cases and deaths didn't turn out badly.  Cases/Deaths as of yesterday per Worldometers was 3,877/136.   :tup  Very glad they weren't Leon Lett, and they appear to have scored the touchdown.  I wonder if the stats that Marc quoted in the main thread are available at the state level, to see what Texas' vax stats are, because ...

Quote
MIchigan right now going crazy. 7 day average daily positive on March 1 was 1340 it is 5685 now, it is a pretty insane upward swing. Looking at the charts, MIchigan is almost solely responsible for the current upward swing in the daily positive. The other big states like NY, NJ, FL have all leveled off the last week.

THIS is what my concern was, and I wonder if the increase is because Michigan is seeing the variants*.  It's nice that situations like this are the exception, and not the rule.  Again, it gives me hope that Canada will see similar outcomes when we get our vax shit together.  We're at least 2-3 months behind you guys, and the programs are being run by a bunch of Keystone Cops.

* Stats here in Ontario show the B117 variant is 60% more transmissible than the original strain; has a 40% greater chance of hospitalization; has a doubles the chance of requiring ICU; 50% more fatal.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1338 on: April 02, 2021, 09:44:41 AM »
Proud of you, Chad (seriously).

So what is the message of Texas (and to a lesser extent Florida)?   I'm exceedingly frustrated by the assessment of the COVID response generally, which to me just seems to be primarily "the rest of the country isn't doing what I'M doing, or what I WANT them to do, therefore our leaders blow.  Oh, and Trump blows, because he's fat."  Not referring to any one person here, I'm talking generally (and more about what I'm seeing outside of DTF).  It's pretty clear this is a complicated, multi-variable equation here, and subject to a lot of moving parts.  I'm guilty of using the "Florida/California" numbers to make a point, but the reality is as I said: it's more complicated than that.

I can't speak for other countries, but what mollifies me is that once the numbers ARE back in line with seasonal viruses, this will all be put aside as we usually do here in the States for bigger(?) and more immediate concerns.

Offline cramx3

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1339 on: April 02, 2021, 10:05:36 AM »
I forgot about coming back to this a month later.  I do think some things work in Texas' favor, better weather and also it seemed a lot of stores still required masks so it wasn't a total free for all of going back to normal.  At least that's what I read, maybe our local Texans here can say that things are legit back to normal.  Either way, it's good to know shit didn't hit the fan because that's what SHOULD happen when most of the compromised people have been vaccinated.  It's really encouraging to see this working.  However, I still stand by my slower opening approach just so you can keep things more easily measured and less likely to have to go into another shutdown.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1340 on: April 14, 2021, 09:14:17 AM »
So what is the message of Texas (and to a lesser extent Florida)?

I think the message is that there isn't a message.  As you said:

...the reality is as I said: it's more complicated than that.

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1341 on: May 21, 2021, 09:44:47 PM »
This week, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) visited the Rock Haven Cigar and Tap House in Harrodsburg, Kentucky

https://youtu.be/B3SHGDL0KMk
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1342 on: May 25, 2021, 06:42:04 PM »
Guess this is as good a place as any for this one...what are your all's thoughts on the GOP states slashing the extra $300 of unemployment that congress approved of three months early? Do you think this is one of those things that seem like some tough guy approach that will backfire on them in 2022? I mean, I know places are having trouble hiring, shit I work in the top industry affected, but it's so much more than just that they're making more on unemployment, especially when it's happening in my area where minimum wage for a server is 15/hr +tips which will easily put them over the 17/hr-ish that unemployment gives them.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1343 on: May 25, 2021, 07:43:56 PM »
This week, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) visited the Rock Haven Cigar and Tap House in Harrodsburg, Kentucky

https://youtu.be/B3SHGDL0KMk
The irony of him standing in front of a Logan's Run poster is astonishing. A movie about a society that sacrifices its old people so the younger generations can have a better life.
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1344 on: May 25, 2021, 07:49:02 PM »
Guess this is as good a place as any for this one...what are your all's thoughts on the GOP states slashing the extra $300 of unemployment that congress approved of three months early?


So two things first:

1. I didn't lose my job so I'm lucky, and
2. I feel awful for people that did and are having a hard time making ends meet because of it.

That said, at some point, we have to stop printing money. Where I work, and where my wife works (two different industries) have been unable to hire because people can simply collect.
The economy won't grow because we print money for people to spend. The economy works when business work, sell products and pay staff.

In Massachusetts they're going to start enforcing the "you must look for a job" rule again. Mass has a Republican Governor (The Lovely Mrs TAC calls him the embedded Democrat), but the state is run by Dems.

They have to find a way to better target the benefits. We cannot continue to pay people to stay home. It's wasteful, and not only that, it dilutes the actual aid for the most needy.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1345 on: May 25, 2021, 08:32:54 PM »
I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and was going to post something once I figured out how to do so.

They are about to lift the eviction moratorium in my state, and start allowing for utilities to disconnect for non-payment, and advocates are pleading for more time. What does "more time" look like? If you lost your job because of Covid, that is awful. Millions of people did. Lots of businesses are hiring now. Restaurants and other establishments cannot fully open because they don't have the staff to do so. I've been unemployed on multiple occasions. It sucks. I worried I'd have to sleep in my car if something didn't turn up. I took jobs I didn't want to ensure that didn't happen.

Many of us are going to start receiving child credit tax payments, because of Covid (ostensibly) My family netted more money last year because of Covid than we would have otherwise.

The biggest reckoning is going to be lifting eviction moratoriums. Landlords cannot weather this storm much longer, if they have for this long.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1346 on: May 26, 2021, 06:15:29 AM »
Guess this is as good a place as any for this one...what are your all's thoughts on the GOP states slashing the extra $300 of unemployment that congress approved of three months early? Do you think this is one of those things that seem like some tough guy approach that will backfire on them in 2022? I mean, I know places are having trouble hiring, shit I work in the top industry affected, but it's so much more than just that they're making more on unemployment, especially when it's happening in my area where minimum wage for a server is 15/hr +tips which will easily put them over the 17/hr-ish that unemployment gives them.

While the "GOP-led states" headline is accurate, it's misleading.    As TAC noted, Massachusetts is going to start enforcing their guidelines to get people back to work, and so is Connecticut (NOT a "GOP-led state").  I don't know about New York, but we three tend to work in unison on these things.   The fact is this:  "But businesses around the country say they are struggling to find workers: Applebeeís is offering free appetizers to job applicants, while a Florida McDonaldís is paying $50 to those who show up for an interview. About 44 percent of small businesses had job openings they couldnít fill in April, a record high according to the National Federation of Independent Business."

We need to get people working; whether you're a capitalist or not, the power of money is when it moves.   So handing out unemployment is great as a stop-gap, but it doesn't fuel economies like wages do.   We need people back and productive and working.   Whether it's tough love of cutting unemployment, or as (I think) Connecticut is doing, incentivizing people to take work, it has to be done, and the discussion ought to happen without "GOP" and "Democrat" and "left" and "right".  It's an AMERICAN problem, it's a CITIZEN problem.   The employment taxes, the benefits provided, the boost to family welfare is not exclusive to families of a particular party.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 06:23:49 AM by Stadler »

Offline lonestar

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1347 on: May 26, 2021, 06:47:27 AM »
So in response, is this a call to arms for the corporations to finally pay people a living wage?

Offline El Barto

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1348 on: May 26, 2021, 08:07:57 AM »
So in response, is this a call to arms for the corporations to finally pay people a living wage?
Don't be ridiculous.  :lol
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1349 on: May 26, 2021, 09:13:48 AM »
So in response, is this a call to arms for the corporations to finally pay people a living wage?
Don't be ridiculous.  :lol

I mean, Portnoy will rejoin DT first... But it does point a finger.

Offline emtee

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1350 on: May 26, 2021, 09:26:19 AM »
Got my ears lowered at a major chain this morning. The girl doing the cutting was alone and has been for months. She said they can't get anybody to work. Same is true in retail, services and hospitality. But honestly, who can blame people for collecting unemployment and making more than they would while working thankless and woefully undercompensated jobs.

I truly wonder if a paradigm shift occurred and many people realized...this job sucks and I can do better. If so, the compensation and benefits will have to be increased drastically or the affected sectors will remain understaffed moving forward. It may be a reckoning of sorts.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1351 on: May 26, 2021, 09:30:59 AM »
Got my ears lowered at a major chain this morning. The girl doing the cutting was alone and has been for months. She said they can't get anybody to work. Same is true in retail, services and hospitality. But honestly, who can blame people for collecting unemployment and making more than they would while working thankless and woefully undercompensated jobs.

I truly wonder if a paradigm shift occurred and many people realized...this job sucks and I can do better. If so, the compensation and benefits will have to be increased drastically or the affected sectors will remain understaffed moving forward. It may be a reckoning of sorts.
One can only hope. This country is due for one, but the truth is I think it'll be completely overlooked/misrepresented when it occurs.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1352 on: May 26, 2021, 09:31:10 AM »
Got my ears lowered at a major chain this morning. The girl doing the cutting was alone and has been for months. She said they can't get anybody to work. Same is true in retail, services and hospitality. But honestly, who can blame people for collecting unemployment and making more than they would while working thankless and woefully undercompensated jobs.

I truly wonder if a paradigm shift occurred and many people realized...this job sucks and I can do better. If so, the compensation and benefits will have to be increased drastically or the affected sectors will remain understaffed moving forward. It may be a reckoning of sorts.

And how will it reflect on the government if their response is basically 'fuck you, get back to work'

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1353 on: May 26, 2021, 09:47:40 AM »
So in response, is this a call to arms for the corporations to finally pay people a living wage?
Don't be ridiculous.  :lol

I mean, Portnoy will rejoin DT first... But it does point a finger.

How so?  (Honest question).   To my first read, that points more to the uncertainty of a government having to expedite blanket, one-size-fits-all payments to a vast cross-section of the economy rather than any inaccuracy in regular pay for any one person.  I've collected unemployment twice in my life, and both times I needed to get back to work post-fucking-haste, because other than I could be paid something for playing PlayStation all day, it wasn't a replacement for a salary with benefits. I get that unemployment isn't for me, but it goes to the notion that it's not a tailored/negotiated or a merit-based solution like a hiring situation.

TL;DR:  An entitlement program is not comparable to a productivity-based, arms-length business transaction.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1354 on: May 26, 2021, 09:55:28 AM »
it points to the idea that the reason employers have trouble hiring is because the wages arenít high enough.  I donít have any sort of well thought out take on that but I think itís a legitimate question.  People being too lazy to work isnít the whole story. 

Offline Adami

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1355 on: May 26, 2021, 09:59:35 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1356 on: May 26, 2021, 10:02:58 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.
They're not, which is a big part of the problem.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1357 on: May 26, 2021, 10:05:20 AM »
Got my ears lowered at a major chain this morning. The girl doing the cutting was alone and has been for months. She said they can't get anybody to work. Same is true in retail, services and hospitality. But honestly, who can blame people for collecting unemployment and making more than they would while working thankless and woefully undercompensated jobs.

I truly wonder if a paradigm shift occurred and many people realized...this job sucks and I can do better. If so, the compensation and benefits will have to be increased drastically or the affected sectors will remain understaffed moving forward. It may be a reckoning of sorts.
One can only hope. This country is due for one, but the truth is I think it'll be completely overlooked/misrepresented when it occurs.

Well, I think we're due for a reckoning as well, but I suspect we might have varying definitions of what that looks like.  I do, respectfully, think it's equally misrepresentative to make it a one-variable discussion, wages.   My daughter is, coincidentally, a hair stylist in North Carolina, and also for a chain.   They struggle for workers as well, but it's not JUST that.  They have a business to run.   They need to have a minimum number of heads to cut before they can support a full-time worker, so the salary/wage pool is not unlimited. The money that we're saying should be thrown at some of these workers has to come from somewhere, no? The people that she gets in are not rock stars and CEO wives.  She will frequently tell us stories of the people that will pay, and their tip is just rounding up from the cents to the nearest dollar (generally 10 to 15% is a fair tip for a hair cut, at least up here in the Northeast; some of the boutique salons will see 20% tips).  People who think that "kids haircuts are free, right?" or that tips aren't required for kids haircuts. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1358 on: May 26, 2021, 10:17:50 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.

You guys are in my wheelhouse today; is this a setup?  :) :) :)

My OTHER daughter, coincidentally, works at Chipotle here in the Hartford area (and for the record, a successful one; they were the number one store in the region for a while).  She works there between school (summers/breaks) but is still one of the more senior people there.   Most of the non-management staff are NOT primary breadwinners supporting a family.   No, they can't live off that, but just like not every food is a full entree, not every song is a romantic ballad appropriate for a wedding, so not every job is meant to be a primary wage-earner job.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1359 on: May 26, 2021, 10:28:46 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.
They're not, which is a big part of the problem.

Exactly. But I think you and I probably have different ideas of what that 'problem' is. I see the problem as people believing fast food jobs like that as being a job that you hold to try and make a living off of. Those types of jobs are for teenagers and kids in school. Maybe if you're a manger of a store or a franchisee owner you 'make a living' there. But McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King....etc etc.....those aren't jobs you are going to retire from or be able to support a family etc etc.

This idea that those jobs should pay $18, 19....20 plus dollars an hour is insane. And we've seen the response from those companies now that they're facing having to pay higher salaries for a low salary job. Automation. I'm sorry, but if you're waiting tables or grilling burgers and expecting that to be a career or to provide you with the means to raise a family or own a house you're living in a fantasy world.

There are plenty of 2 year vocational schools out there that allow people to learn a trade or skill that will jump start a career. For all the bitching and complaining people do about America the fact remains that people are literally dying to get into this country because they know that you can work hard and succeed. The opportunity IS STILL THERE to better  yourself if you have the drive and desire. I am living proof of it.

I was a sports bar manager and was waiting tables at 25 years old when my wife and I met and I realize I needed to get my  :censored together. Went to a 2 year school and got an associates degree in computer aided drafting and design.....fast forward 16 years or so of hard work and we're in a good position in life. Wasn't handed to me and I didn't expect anyone to 'give' me anything. Went and got it on my own. Which is the 'problem' I see. Fast food jobs and lower skilled jobs like that simply aren't $16, 17...20 an hour jobs.

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Offline lonestar

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1360 on: May 26, 2021, 10:33:35 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.

You guys are in my wheelhouse today; is this a setup?  :) :) :)

My OTHER daughter, coincidentally, works at Chipotle here in the Hartford area (and for the record, a successful one; they were the number one store in the region for a while).  She works there between school (summers/breaks) but is still one of the more senior people there.   Most of the non-management staff are NOT primary breadwinners supporting a family.   No, they can't live off that, but just like not every food is a full entree, not every song is a romantic ballad appropriate for a wedding, so not every job is meant to be a primary wage-earner job.

Oddly enough, I'm listening to this exact argument play out in radio, and they said the average age of a fast food worker is 35

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1361 on: May 26, 2021, 10:35:08 AM »
it points to the idea that the reason employers have trouble hiring is because the wages arenít high enough.  I donít have any sort of well thought out take on that but I think itís a legitimate question.  People being too lazy to work isnít the whole story.

If you take anything from what I've written above, the wage is tied to the work performed.   Not every job is a $65k per year with full benefits  job (If memory serves, "living wage" is just around there). Maybe "lazy" isn't the right word, but we talk about problems; to me, expecting to come to work when you want, IF you want, and expecting a private corporation to put their strategic objectives aside to pay you what you WANT (as opposed to what you deserve), raising that amount every year as an automatic matter of course, and without any real commitment on your part is just as much a part of the problem.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm a fan of single payer; I think the best thing we can do - before artificially jacking up wages - is to sever the corporate/benefits tie.   It's baffling to me that I have to rely on my employer for something as personal as the healthcare for me and my family.

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1362 on: May 26, 2021, 10:43:27 AM »
Oddly enough, I'm listening to this exact argument play out in radio, and they said the average age of a fast food worker is 35

Well.....this may sound harsh....but, in that case I would say they haven't made great life decisions. Sure, some can try and argue that people in this situation weren't afforded the same opportunity as others or a handful of other (as I see them) excuses as to 'why' they aren't able to better themselves....but I don't subscribe to the notion that they're helpless and that's the best they can expect or ask for. Opportunity is there. It may be more convenient to some than others and some may have to work harder for it but it is there.

I'm sorry but if you're 35 and working at Wendy's and can't make ends meet that's due to your poor life decisions and it's not Wendy's responsibility to over pay you for a job a 15 year old can do.
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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1363 on: May 26, 2021, 10:47:43 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.
They're not, which is a big part of the problem.

Exactly. But I think you and I probably have different ideas of what that 'problem' is. I see the problem as people believing fast food jobs like that as being a job that you hold to try and make a living off of. Those types of jobs are for teenagers and kids in school. Maybe if you're a manger of a store or a franchisee owner you 'make a living' there. But McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King....etc etc.....those aren't jobs you are going to retire from or be able to support a family etc etc.

This idea that those jobs should pay $18, 19....20 plus dollars an hour is insane. And we've seen the response from those companies now that they're facing having to pay higher salaries for a low salary job. Automation. I'm sorry, but if you're waiting tables or grilling burgers and expecting that to be a career or to provide you with the means to raise a family or own a house you're living in a fantasy world.

There are plenty of 2 year vocational schools out there that allow people to learn a trade or skill that will jump start a career. For all the bitching and complaining people do about America the fact remains that people are literally dying to get into this country because they know that you can work hard and succeed. The opportunity IS STILL THERE to better  yourself if you have the drive and desire. I am living proof of it.

I was a sports bar manager and was waiting tables at 25 years old when my wife and I met and I realize I needed to get my  :censored together. Went to a 2 year school and got an associates degree in computer aided drafting and design.....fast forward 16 years or so of hard work and we're in a good position in life. Wasn't handed to me and I didn't expect anyone to 'give' me anything. Went and got it on my own. Which is the 'problem' I see. Fast food jobs and lower skilled jobs like that simply aren't $16, 17...20 an hour jobs.
It was STILL THERE in 2004. Is it still there now? Average cost of a 2 year vocational school is 33k. What did it cost you? Were you able to pay the bills while you went to school? The minimum wage in 2004 was $6.15 (in 2021 $). It's only 7.25 now, while rents have increased 64%. While it might not be intended to be a living wage (and it actually was), it certainly did allow you feed yourself while you bettered yourself. It sure as shit won't now,though. And working two of those jobs will make it kind of tough to actually get an education.

In a nutshell, you almost certainly paid a helluva lot less to attend DeVry, or whatever school you went to, and you made a helluva lot more while doing it. And that's not even including disparity in individual circumstances.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Politics Of The Coronavirus
« Reply #1364 on: May 26, 2021, 10:48:31 AM »
I remember just recently reading how Chipotle pays 11 dollars an hour to new employees. Not sure how much that varies by state but I calculated a full time employee at that rate gets around 22,000 a year, assuming 2 weeks vacation in there and pre-tax. I have no idea how someone is supposed to live off that.

You guys are in my wheelhouse today; is this a setup?  :) :) :)

My OTHER daughter, coincidentally, works at Chipotle here in the Hartford area (and for the record, a successful one; they were the number one store in the region for a while).  She works there between school (summers/breaks) but is still one of the more senior people there.   Most of the non-management staff are NOT primary breadwinners supporting a family.   No, they can't live off that, but just like not every food is a full entree, not every song is a romantic ballad appropriate for a wedding, so not every job is meant to be a primary wage-earner job.

Oddly enough, I'm listening to this exact argument play out in radio, and they said the average age of a fast food worker is 35

I have zero idea how credible it is (there's some phrasing in there that gives me pause), but this site has some demographics of the fast food worker.   It puts the average age at 27, and demographically, the workforce more or less mirrors that of general society (66% white, 11% black, more female than male, but not by an unreasonable amount).

I will say this, though: the age is probably skewed by a higher than expected rate of seniors in play, and I would point out that the average time on the job is less than one year.   That would be a DISASTROUS statistic for most employers.   The startup costs of recruiting, hiring and training employees would make one year almost impossible to recoup costs.   I know my company would just not bother hiring an employee if there was a reasonably expectation they wouldn't be in the job 12 months from now.