Songs that might never be played live again

[MirrorMask]

The recent discussion in the factoids topic about which songs Jordan played made me wonder... how many songs do you think DT will probably never play live again?

"Never" is a strong word, after all even in the post MP era they proved to be able to pull out some surprises and deep cuts - Space Dye Vest being the prime example - but let's face it, the catalogue is ever increasing, new songs will always have a spot in the setlist and from previous albums the list of songs that prove favorable with the audience will grow as well.

No song will probably ever be officially retired, and any song "could" be played, but realistically many songs will never be played live again (not famous enough with the fans, too hard for James, too difficult to re-learn for the band members etc...).... which songs do you reckon will never find a place again in a DT live set and why?

[bosk1]

Unless they decided to do a special performance of The Astonishing, I would be surprised to see anything but the singles and maybe a couple of other songs from that album resurface.  Otherwise, the only other stuff from the Mangini era that I would expect to not come back would be the "ballads":  This is the Life, Far From Heaven, Beneath the Surface, Along for the Ride, and Out of Reach. 

Others I think are unlikely (album cuts only):
-Wither
-TSF
-TBOT
-TMOLS
-Never Enough
-Prophets
-The Answer Lies Within
-Anna Lee

[Lonk]

Not sure about specific songs but I would assume certain songs from TA will never see the stage again, specially since they wouldn't work as a stand alone song (Road to revolution, Heaven's Cove, Astonishing, Brother can you hear me?, and others). I also would not be surprise if some songs from SFAM don't get played again (Beyond this life?).

[Setlist Scotty]

My guesses:

Status Seeker - obscure
The Killing Hand - obscure/difficult vocally
Light Fuse And Get Away - obscure
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun - obscure
Only A Matter Of Time - obscure

To Live Forever - previous audience reaction
Don't Look Past Me - previous audience reaction/difficult vocally

Another Day - difficult vocally
Take the Time - difficult vocally

Eve - obscure

Innocence Faded - obscure/difficult vocally
Voices - difficult vocally

Raise the Knife - obscure
Where Are You Now? - obscure
The Way It Used to Be - obscure
Cover My Eyes - obscure
Speak to Me - obscure

New Millennium - JL hates performing this song
You Not Me - obscure
Lines In The Sand - a "Derek" song
Take Away My Pain - obscure
Just Let Me Breathe - too much from the Derek era (tho not a "Derek" song per se)
Anna Lee - obscure/a "Derek" song

The Glass Prison - difficult parts for JP
Blind Faith - obscure/difficult parts for JP
The Great Debate - previous audience reaction

Honor Thy Father - personal MP lyrics

The Answer Lies Within - obscure
Never Enough - personal MP lyrics

Repentance - obscure
Prophets Of War - obscure
The Ministry of Lost Souls - obscure/too long for mellow-ish song

The Best of Times - personal MP lyrics

Raw Dog - obscure

Build Me Up, Break Me Down - obscure/not typical DT song
Far from Heaven - too mellow
Beneath the Surface - too mellow

most of The Astonishing

[Buddyhunter1]

I wouldn't really count the "Derek" songs and the "personal lyrics" songs (with the exception of The Best Of Times) out considering they've played Space Dye Vest, ACOS and some of the 12-step suite.

[bosk1]

I don't think they'll be played either, but not exactly for that reason.  If nobody in the band actively wants to play a song, it won't get played. 

[MirrorMask]

Not sure about specific songs but I would assume certain songs from TA will never see the stage again, specially since they wouldn't work as a stand alone song (Road to revolution, Heaven's Cove, Astonishing, Brother can you hear me?, and others). I also would not be surprise if some songs from SFAM don't get played again (Beyond this life?).

Yeah, I was wondering about The Astonishing as well, the only song that "survived" (in the following tour) were The Gift of Music, A Life Left Behind and Our New World. I could see them dowm the line reviving one of those, or maybe A New Beginning (for the solo) or Ravenskill, but I don't think the "lesser" songs of the album will be ever considered, I mean, do you see them pulling out The Answer just because the set is 2-3 minutes short?

And speaking of SFAM, the only song of the album I never saw live in 20 years of concerts (since I missed the original tour) is Through Her Eyes, so I think I heard it for the first and last time when I saw them a month ago. And Regression, d'uh.

[Cool Chris]

I don't give a rip if a song is "too personal" to a member who is no longer in the band. If it is a good song, play the damn thing (I don't know if any of those Scotty listed as such qualifies, I am more speaking on principle).

[KevShmev]

I doubt the band would have a problem playing a "Derek" song, and I have a hard time calling Lines in the Sand a "Derek" song.  Okay, he wrote that bad ass intro, but it's still very much a Dream Theater song. 

It remains to be seen how many touring cycles the band has left (maybe a handful?), so I am sure the list of songs that will never get played again is longer than any of us realize, especially given how static the set lists have been the last few years.  Heck, four of the 10 new songs from last year have yet to get played despite a year of touring on the album now, and the first three Mangini albums have all been poorly represented live other than the touring cycles on those albums (Breaking All Illusions being the exception).

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think they'll be played either, but not exactly for that reason.  If nobody in the band actively wants to play a song, it won't get played.

Absolutely true. But I can't imagine that in most cases the band is gonna want to perform some of those songs with MP penned lyrics partially because of the lyrics.
 
 

I don't give a rip if a song is "too personal" to a member who is no longer in the band. If it is a good song, play the damn thing (I don't know if any of those Scotty listed as such qualifies, I am more speaking on principle).

I don't think it would be so much a matter of them doing it out of respect for MP as much as they just don't feel comfortable performing the song because of the lyrics which the rest of the guys don't relate to or don't agree with.
 
 

I doubt the band would have a problem playing a "Derek" song, and I have a hard time calling Lines in the Sand a "Derek" song.  Okay, he wrote that bad ass intro, but it's still very much a Dream Theater song. 

Well considering how DS and MP are now in a band together, and they just performed JLMB and LitS with their band, I can easily see them steering clear of those songs for that reason alone (not wanting to be compared to SoA's performance of the song). Not hard to do given the huge catalog of other songs they have to pick from.
 
 

It remains to be seen how many touring cycles the band has left (maybe a handful?), so I am sure the list of songs that will never get played again is longer than any of us realize, especially given how static the set lists have been the last few years.  Heck, four of the 10 new songs from last year have yet to get played despite a year of touring on the album now, and the first three Mangini albums have all been poorly represented live other than the touring cycles on those albums (Breaking All Illusions being the exception).

The static setlists are definitely part of the problem - had they kept the rotating setlists or at least alternating setlists, they could include many more songs within a tour cycle. And while I know it's controversial, I think it would be nice to include a medley, highlighting the best parts of various songs that they otherwise will probably never play again, such as the instrumental sections of NE and TMoLS, the outro guitar solos to TBoT and ANB, etc. I mean, I know it will never happen since JP hates medleys, but it would be one way to satisfy playing some of these songs.

[TAC]

No medleys, please.

[Lonk]

Am I the only one who likes medleys?

[KevShmev]

I doubt the band would have a problem playing a "Derek" song, and I have a hard time calling Lines in the Sand a "Derek" song.  Okay, he wrote that bad ass intro, but it's still very much a Dream Theater song. 

Well considering how DS and MP are now in a band together, and they just performed JLMB and LitS with their band, I can easily see them steering clear of those songs for that reason alone (not wanting to be compared to SoA's performance of the song). Not hard to do given the huge catalog of other songs they have to pick from.

No offense to Sons of Apollo, but I doubt Dream Theater cares too much if some new band with a couple of old members is playing a few of their songs.  DT doesn't need to punch down like that.

The static setlists are definitely part of the problem - had they kept the rotating setlists or at least alternating setlists, they could include many more songs within a tour cycle. And while I know it's controversial, I think it would be nice to include a medley, highlighting the best parts of various songs that they otherwise will probably never play again, such as the instrumental sections of NE and TMoLS, the outro guitar solos to TBoT and ANB, etc. I mean, I know it will never happen since JP hates medleys, but it would be one way to satisfy playing some of these songs.

Thank goodness. Medleys can look good on paper, but in reality they are major teases live and almost always wholly unsatisfying.  It's like you are just getting into a song and then boom they suddenly go into another for no reason other than to check mark another song off the list as having been played.

[PetFish]

Am I the only one who likes medleys?

I'm with you on Team Medleys.

[gzarruk]

Am I the only one who likes medleys?

I don't like them, but I'd gladly take a TA medley, just for some of those songs to be played live again.

[MirrorMask]

Thank goodness. Medleys can look good on paper, but in reality they are major teases live and almost always wholly unsatisfying.  It's like you are just getting into a song and then boom they suddenly go into another for no reason other than to check mark another song off the list as having been played.

Well, this could be solved announcing the medley. It's part of the fun to listen, for example, to the Instrumedley and realize what they're doing ("but... but... they're sticking together all solo sections!!!"), but imagine if in 2022 James after a song says "So, 20 years ago Six Degrees was released, we want to honor it but you can guess we can't play 90 minutes of an album or 42 minutes of the title song, so the next 25 minutes will be dedicated to a medley of the album, enjoy", you would not be let down if you know beforehand they're gonna play short sections here and there.

[Setlist Scotty]

Thank goodness. Medleys can look good on paper, but in reality they are major teases live and almost always wholly unsatisfying.  It's like you are just getting into a song and then boom they suddenly go into another for no reason other than to check mark another song off the list as having been played.

Well, this could be solved announcing the medley. It's part of the fun to listen, for example, to the Instrumedley and realize what they're doing ("but... but... they're sticking together all solo sections!!!"), but imagine if in 2002 James after a song says "So, 20 years ago Six Degrees was released, we want to honor it but you can guess we can't play 90 minutes of an album or 42 minutes of the title song, so the next 25 minutes will be dedicated to a medley of the album, enjoy", you would not be let down if you know beforehand they're gonna play short sections here and there.

Sounds good but I doubt that would satisfy the medley-haters here. Their attitude seems to be "all or nothing". I'd rather having something rather than nothing at all.

[cramx3]

Not sure about specific songs but I would assume certain songs from TA will never see the stage again, specially since they wouldn't work as a stand alone song (Road to revolution, Heaven's Cove, Astonishing, Brother can you hear me?, and others). I also would not be surprise if some songs from SFAM don't get played again (Beyond this life?).

Some of those songs couldn't even survive The Astonishing tour.  Sad to admit it, but I agree, unless they surprise me and do a special TA show, those songs are likely retired.  Although, they could do few song sections across multiple tours... but then we get the age thing and the relevance of newer songs.

Am I the only one who likes medleys?

I don't like them, but I'd gladly take a TA medley, just for some of those songs to be played live again.

I enjoy them quite a bit especially the medley's DT have done.  However, I'd rather see DT do a few songs from a part of TA than a medley of TA.  The songs are too short to make a medley, just play 3 or 4 of them in a row. 

[Buddyhunter1]

They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes.

[geeeemo]

They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes.

Yes except for one of the highlights of the album is James LaBrie.

[KevShmev]

Well, this could be solved announcing the medley. It's part of the fun to listen, for example, to the Instrumedley and realize what they're doing ("but... but... they're sticking together all solo sections!!!"), but imagine if in 2022 James after a song says "So, 20 years ago Six Degrees was released, we want to honor it but you can guess we can't play 90 minutes of an album or 42 minutes of the title song, so the next 25 minutes will be dedicated to a medley of the album, enjoy", you would not be let down if you know beforehand they're gonna play short sections here and there.

To be fair, if I know a medley is coming, it is far easier to deal with since I know kind of what to expect, when and where.  There were still moments where I wanted a song to keep going rather than jumping to the next, but I enjoyed the Aquamedley I saw Haken do two years ago, as well as the one Neal Morse Band did as an encore on last year's tour.  In both cases, I pretty much know beforehand what was getting played in the medley, so I was mentally prepared for it. 

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

I like medleys, but I can live without them..the only thing that from a medley point of view makes sense is to make a TA medley..although I'm not a fan of the album but why not really get down and present the strongest moments and songs from it..they missed the opportunity of making a live recording of it so why not include it as a special thing on one of their future set lists..that would be very good for the fans that still like the album!

[MirrorMask]

They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes.

It will never happen, but a cool idea - and that could help the hardcore musicians to re-evaluate the album - is using Dystopian Overture as a starting point, and turning it into an "Astonishing Instrumedley". Stretch the song to 10-15 minutes inserting all the other stuff that isn't already there and touching on some other memorable moments of the album.

[EPIC Outro]

Medleys are like a self contained mini concert. I love that moment of confusion before you realize what part of a song they just transitioned into.

And even though JP has mentioned disliking medleys in the past, I dont think he would never do one again if he thought the fans would really dig it.

[cramx3]

Medleys are like a self contained mini concert. I love that moment of confusion before you realize what part of a song they just transitioned into.

And even though JP has mentioned disliking medleys in the past, I dont think he would never do one again if he thought the fans would really dig it.

Do we know how the rest of the band feels about them?  Seems it was a MP thing, but if others like JM or JLB like them, then I could see that maybe swaying over JP but I kind of feel like if JP doesn't want to do it, they won't even if the fans really want it (which is very debatable).

[hefdaddy42]

Pretty sure that JP has veto power.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if all (or almost all) of the members also had veto power.

[bosk1]

I don't think any of them would say that the term "veto power" hits the mark, even if it may technically be true.  But I think you are right that any of them have the ability to say "no, I don't really want to do [X song/medley/whatever" for whatever reason.  I think JP is the strongest voice when it comes to stuff like that.  But I also think that he tends to be pretty considerate about what he believes others would not want to do.

[TAC]

They could just play Dystopian Overture, which is already basically a medly and covers all of the good musical ideas in the album in five minutes.

It will never happen, but a cool idea - and that could help the hardcore musicians to re-evaluate the album - is using Dystopian Overture as a starting point, and turning it into an "Astonishing Instrumedley". Stretch the song to 10-15 minutes inserting all the other stuff that isn't already there and touching on some other memorable moments of the album.

It'll be interesting how they treat The Astonishing material going forward. Will they play a stand alone track like A Gift Of Music or (yawn) Our New World. A 15-20 minute mini suite comprising parts of a bunch of songs where they can kind of tell the story would be cool.

[gmillerdrake]

Am I the only one who likes medleys?

Nope....I like them as well because honestly.....the ones they've done have been REALLY well done. I'm perfectly fine with a medley....

[Setlist Scotty]

Given the discussion about medleys in general, for those who hadn't already voted, it would be interesting to see how everyone feels about medleys as expressed in this poll:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53418.0

[Herrick]

I'd rather hear one song from a medley played in its entirety rather than the medley.

[bosk1]

Generally, I agree.  But I am not against medleys either (as I mentioned in that thread).  But it also just depends.  I love The Big Medley from the Ronnie Scott's show, for example.  That was so cleverly done.  Medleys absolutely can be done well.  And they can feel like a cheap way to just mash some excerpts together in an unsatisfying way instead of just playing a song or two as a whole.  Again, it just depends.

[Lonk]

I forgot about that poll and funny enough, I voted for the first option.

I was listening to awake earlier and thought about this thread. I think because of JLB's vocal Innocent Faded, Voices and Caught in a Web will not be played again.

[KidInTheDark666]

I forgot about that poll and funny enough, I voted for the first option.

I was listening to awake earlier and thought about this thread. I think because of JLB's vocal Innocent Faded, Voices and Caught in a Web will not be played again.

We could add Scarred and The Mirror there too.

[EPIC Outro]

I'm pretty sure James has gone on record saying he loves singing Scarred live