DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?

I mean, Storm Thorgerson did this: https://youtu.be/6Hxn1Jy_v0I

[fischermasamune]

John Myung put the self-titled track of the upcoming album as one of the top 5 hard songs to play:

"A View From the Top of the World" - A View From the Top of the World (2021)

What makes this a challenge to play for me would be that it's a 20-minute epic, so the memorization aspect is the first part of the challenge. And then there are certain sections that I have to focus on. For instance, there is a classical Mozart-like section that happens in the second half of the song. It's the type of part that definitely takes a bit of practice, when taken out of context it turns into a cool little exercise all by itself.

https://www.revolvermag.com/music/dream-theater-5-most-difficult-songs-play-live#i-am-train-thought-2003

With JM being as talkative and forthcoming as he is, it had to end up with him spilling the beans!

[dparrott]

I'm hoping for some weird sci-fi sounds in The Alien!  That's something they've never done.

[Wim Kruithof]

I hate that ****ing notion.

I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...

No matter what Dream Theater will ever do, with a fanbase this big, there will always be someone pissing at there door. One can't satisfy them all, don't take it personal, nor be discuraged, this is the side-effect of being so huge.

[The Letter M]

Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?

I mean, Storm Thorgerson did this: https://youtu.be/6Hxn1Jy_v0I

Yeah, but DT are not PF, and they probably couldn't afford the kind of work that went into producing the cover for AMLOR.

Also, if DT weren't happy with Hugh's work, they wouldn't keep going back to him, so obviously they seem content with his work enough to continue having him do artwork for the band. Or maybe it's just John's "What Would Rush Do?"... either way, I don't blame them, or Hugh. I do think Hugh does put a lot of work into his work, but there are also some oversights in them, so either his vision is going, he doesn't care enough, or the band doesn't care enough to notice or point out anything that might look odd.

At any rate, I enjoy Hugh's work, for the most part, and his work with DT has been fairly consistent, even if it does continue their mash-elements-of-the-album-onto-the-cover format that started with IAW/Awake. Guess there's no shame in trying to relive the glory days, eh?

-Marc.

[vtgrad]

After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar?  My first guess would be Invisible Monster.   I could be completely wrong though.   

Whichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.

Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders?  I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks.  Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.

JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.

Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think anyone has a problem with the use of stock images. It's mostly the bad use of Photoshop, wrong perspective, bad (or nonexistent) shadows, difference in the asset resolutions that points to the so called "laziness".

This is the issue that I have with Hugh's art for the last 15-20 years - especially on DT's artwork. The cover for BCaSL is a primary example of that. The lack of a shadow for the mouse, the elephant not looking real, the majesty symbol not having the correct perspective and even just having the majesty symbol there as basically a stain on the floor. When I created the artwork for the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary T-shirt (which MP asked me to do), I did everything I could to make sure everything fit - so the shadows matched the light source, the perspectives were more accurate and I made the majesty symbol a marble floor design. In fact, MP was impressed enough that he decided to do a poster of that image, too.

The same could be said for 8v with the wonky angle of the swinging ball on the cover; plus the domino monoliths, much of the underwater scene (especially the stop sign) and the 8-ball image on the CD tray all not being photo realistic. When I created the artwork for MP's drum heads on the 20th anniversary tour, I used real photos of a stop sign and 8-ball.

And I also have issues with some of the other artwork Hugh's done for DT. Not trying to nitpick at all, and as I've said in other posts, I actually *like* Hugh's ideas. It's just that the execution of his ideas unfortunately is often lacking. More than anything, I attribute that to him probably cutting corners now to save time and to find more work since he probably can't command the same high prices he used to now that Photoshop, stock imagery and digital photography are so common place (never mind telecommunications) so that even the average Joe can create artwork for themselves or others. This besides his increasing reliance on stock photography.
 
 

Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?

I mean, Storm Thorgerson did this: https://youtu.be/6Hxn1Jy_v0I

Yeah, but DT are not PF, and they probably couldn't afford the kind of work that went into producing the cover for AMLOR.

I agree and was going to post the same thing, altho I *love* the spirit that Storm embodied in how he created artwork. That said, when that cover was created, Photoshop didn't even exist then, so it wasn't an option. If he had done that artwork 10 years later, you can be sure he would've only used a small fraction of the beds that they did end up using. But still, the execution would've been done perfectly, as can be seen by Storm's art from the 90s onward (the cover of Pulse and Richard Wright's Broken China album both come to mind immediately).

Also, if DT weren't happy with Hugh's work, they wouldn't keep going back to him, so obviously they seem content with his work enough to continue having him do artwork for the band. Or maybe it's just John's "What Would Rush Do?"... either way, I don't blame them, or Hugh. I do think Hugh does put a lot of work into his work, but there are also some oversights in them, so either his vision is going, he doesn't care enough, or the band doesn't care enough to notice or point out anything that might look odd.

From what I understand, they of course love Hugh's artwork - not just JP but MP, and I'd imagine that the case for the rest of the guys as well. But it seems that they (both JP and MP who deal with Hugh) defer to Hugh in general when it comes to the details of the artwork, trusting him, being that he's the professional instead of questioning him. I think it's a mistake, but it's their product and their choice. All I can do is sit back and be an arm-chair quarterback knowing it could have (and should have) been better because I care about such details and want the best for my favorite band. But if they don't care, there's nothing I can do about it than periodically express frustration.
 
 

I'm hoping for some weird sci-fi sounds in The Alien!  That's something they've never done.

Ummmm....did you forget about the 5 NOMAC tracks on TA? Those are "weird sci-fi sounds" if I ever heard them.

[Architeuthis]

I'm hoping for some weird sci-fi sounds in The Alien!  That's something they've never done.

I think the Nomacs qualify for weird sci-fi sounds.   As much has Jordan has been experimenting with modern keyboard patches and the iPad apps lately, I think it's safe to say that we will hear something new and bizarre on DT15.
 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm not a big artwork guy, so for better or worse, I won't spend too much mindshare on the new cover. My main hope (beyond the songs being great, obviously), is for it to sound great. DOT, LTE3, and TV all sound friggin' sick. I hope that trend continues.

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm not a big artwork guy, so for better or worse, I won't spend too much mindshare on the new cover. My main hope (beyond the songs being great, obviously), is for it to sound great. DOT, LTE3, and TV all sound friggin' sick. I hope that trend continues.

That is likely, since Andy Sneap mixed and mastered the record (as he has done with TV by John and Firepower by Priest too, all really rather good sounding records, these ones)

[Ben_Jamin]

Sounds like people just don't like High Symes Artstyle.

He's a digital artist and utilizes collages to form the bigger picture.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the use of stock images. It's mostly the bad use of Photoshop, wrong perspective, bad (or nonexistent) shadows, difference in the asset resolutions that points to the so called "laziness".

Like it or not, he doesn't care about these. His style is not putting perspective, shadow, or anything like that. That's not the purpose of his collages. The purpose of his collages are to convey the album to us. Hugh Syme gets a description of what JP wants for the album art and JP/The band let Syme do his thing, as he is the artist and they are the band.

What Hugh does is what the band wants. Artwork that conveys the album. Then the label okays it and it goes to print.

It's not like what happened with Iron Maiden and Dance of Death.

[TM172003]

Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?

No one gives a shit about that, it’s the poor photoshop work that gripes me. It’s not on the album cover, but the Spider on the boot on one of the cover photos is laughable. Forgive me if that’s not Hugh’s doing, but that really is poor.

[Enigmachine]

No one gives a shit about that, it’s the poor photoshop work that gripes me. It’s not on the album cover, but the Spider on the boot on one of the cover photos is laughable. Forgive me if that’s not Hugh’s doing, but that really is poor.

Actually, people very much do seem to care, judging from the amount of comments I've seen that amount to "oh look, I found the stock images, isn't Hugh Syme so lazy?"

[darkshade]

[Lonk]

After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar?  My first guess would be Invisible Monster.   I could be completely wrong though.   

Whichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.

Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders?  I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks.  Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.

JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.

Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.

While I agree with you, I don't think Plini uses 8 string guitars.

I saw Javier Reyes (Animals as Leader) opening for Plini 2 years ago and he is a great guitar player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc0LcFJSKFI

[TM172003]

Haken use 8 string guitars much more tastefully than most. While most 8 string players simply chug away on the bottom string, which I hate, Haken use it very sparingly and it’s just a tool to go lower when they need to, and so it’s really effective when they do. I imagine JP will be much the same.

I completely get disliking 8 strings when they’re just used to rip off Meshuggah, but Haken and Animals as Leaders have proved that it can be a great tool.

[ReaperKK]

I hate that ****ing notion.

I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...

 Using stock imagery is a tool for digital artists in much the same way that using a specific instrument or sound patch when you're a musician - yes, you're relying on someone else's creativity to create something new, but I really don't see the problem with that. And others prefer to either paint things fully, or take all their photos themselves. Different tools for different preferences.

I mean, people haven't even found the correct photo for the Kjeragbolten image. It's this one: https://www.shutterstock.com/nb/image-photo/kjeragbolten-norway-stone-between-two-rocks-111144011. But due to the popularity of the imagery, you'll find literally thousands of the same angle image on google image search, due to the fact that it's something people go visit and photograph a lot...

Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?

It doesn’t change the fact that the execution of the cover artwork is poor - the image even has two horizons for petes sake. This makes it fair to question the passion/dedication of the artist. Luckily history shows that you should not judge a book by its cover, hence it doesn’t reflect the quality of the music, fortunatly.

Well said. To me it's as if DT told Hugh what some themes of the album are or maybe handed him a lyric sheet, he highlighted some words and then went to google images to form a collage then cashes a check. That's his style and I get it but to me, and I get art is subjective, it's lazy and uninspired. When I see the artwork of other albums come up and then DT artwork will come up I will always notice how tacky and lazy it is.

[ReaperKK]

After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar?  My first guess would be Invisible Monster.   I could be completely wrong though.   

Whichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.

Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders?  I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks.  Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.

JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.

Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.

While I agree with you, I don't think Plini uses 8 string guitars.

I saw Javier Reyes (Animals as Leader) opening for Plini 2 years ago and he is a great guitar player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc0LcFJSKFI

I'm not familiar with many 8-string players but Javier tops the list of awesome 8-string players. Hell here is an awesome 8-string acoustic piece by him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-JfPkV74mc

[emtee]

I love the cover but the music is all that matters. I just have this sense that I'm going to love this album.

[Dellers]

After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar?  My first guess would be Invisible Monster.   I could be completely wrong though.   

Whichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.

Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders?  I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks.  Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.

JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.

Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.

Sure, I've even seen Animals As Leaders live once. Great players. I still can't stand the actual sound of the low F#/E string though, to me there just doesn't seem to be a way to make a guitar sound good in that register. Clean or distorted, I'd rather hear a bass down there. I assume that JM will stay in the same octave as JP if there's any riffing going on, which is the most sensible.

[darkshade]

If JM is going to keep up with JP, he's going to need this:

[Another_Won]

I think this time, I’ll be fine to listen to the first single a couple of times and then just leave it at that until the album release. Would’ve struggled with it in the past, but I’ve been through that many DT album cycles now, that I know I enjoy the albums most when I’m going in not knowing what’s coming. And at least for me, two and especially three singles from a seven song album is just too much.. So I think I can display some restraint in my old age 😊

Agree completely!  It works great, the full album experience all new at one time.   

[Another_Won]

I'm not a big artwork guy, so for better or worse, I won't spend too much mindshare on the new cover. My main hope (beyond the songs being great, obviously), is for it to sound great. DOT, LTE3, and TV all sound friggin' sick. I hope that trend continues.

I second that great trend.  DOT, TV and LTE3 have all be fantastic!

[BeatriceNB]

I hate that ****ing notion.

I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...

I get your point, but I can't say that makes it any better

[devieira73]

I hate that ****ing notion.

I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...

Glad to know! Although there is a lot of resemblance with Marillion's Somewhere Else, I really like that art. Also there's some connection with DT12 cover which I thought cool.
About the actual View's cover... I would like the colors were more vivid. For what everybody(in the band) is saying, the new album sounds very energetic and those soft green and blue aren't matching it. Well, I didn't hear the album, so who knows? But there's one thing that is really bugging me...
Well, the view of the cover should be from the top of the world, right? If we follow the montain at the right side of the cover, the top of the world is clearly somewhere beyond that... 

[v_clortho]

Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.

[WilliamMunny]

Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.

Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)

[TAC]

Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.

Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)

The Trooper

[Dream Team]

Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.

Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)

Pretty sure he shuffled off this mortal coil, unfortunately.

[WilliamMunny]

Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.

Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)

Pretty sure he shuffled off this mortal coil, unfortunately.

Seriously? That’s a damn shame.

[TAC]

I hate that ****ing notion.

I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...

Glad to know! Although there is a lot of resemblance with Marillion's Somewhere Else, I really like that art. Also there's some connection with DT12 cover which I thought cool.

I like the tour poster much better  with or without the kid on top.

I hate that ****ing notion.

I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...

 Using stock imagery is a tool for digital artists in much the same way that using a specific instrument or sound patch when you're a musician - yes, you're relying on someone else's creativity to create something new, but I really don't see the problem with that. And others prefer to either paint things fully, or take all their photos themselves. Different tools for different preferences.

I don't know man. A stock photo of whatever rock that is is fine. But then it's all of the other colorforms added on top like...I don't mean any disrespect...but like a kid did it.

Hugh Syme used to create ART. Now he's just rearranging pictures that he didn't take.





The Marillion cover is too much to look past. Like using the Circus Maximus clown on ADTOE, these are real fails IMO for the band and their judgement.

Is there no one in the room that says..oh no we can't do that, it's too close to _____'s cover?

[nobloodyname]

Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.

Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)

Pretty sure he shuffled off this mortal coil, unfortunately.

I know this is off-topic, and I ought to ask it in the general discussion forum, but what makes you think that? If we knew his real name, we'd be able to check of course.

[jayvee3]

Beats me. I think the cover looks great. I've liked a lot of Hugh's DT covers and just don't stress that much if it's from stock photography etc. It seems pretty obvious to me that the band members like collage style work, or for there to be elements from the songs in many of the covers. Some are executed better than others, but this obsession of nitpicking is just something I don't get too involved in. 

As for the similarities between things like Marillion's "Somewhere Else" - So both covers feature a binocular style viewfinder. Marillion's is large, DT's is on a rock and tiny. Maybe they are similar because that's what a friggn' binocular style viewfinder looks like... DT's also appears to tie in with the album name/title track. So with the thousands of other album covers out there sharing similar elements/themes - does it really matter?

[Enigmachine]

It'd be fine if people were like "eh, I'm not really into that whole collage style, I'd prefer something either more realistic or maybe painted", but seemingly more often we get insults and assumptions about the process. Even after noxon stated the actual facts of what actually happens, people are still assuming otherwise.

[IDontNotDoThings]

After giving myself time to get used to it, I have to agree with the people saying the cover is poorly done. I could tolerate the stock images in earlier covers, but this is the first time it feels like a bunch of conflicting images taken from different sources that don't work together at all.

I know complaining about the cover is a nitpick & doesn't mean anything for the music itself, but it's not like we have the music yet, so what we have now is a bit disappointing for me.