Author Topic: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)  (Read 346568 times)

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Online Zydar

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I was one of those who took it literally. The combination of "unrelenting" + "Annihilator" to me sounded heavy and fast. Looks like MM has another definition of the word "unrelenting". It's all good.
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Offline Kotowboy

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I'm not at all shocked by Mangini over-explaining himself. He always gets very defensive. Like - when asked why his hi hats are so high up

he doesn't just go " It's for separation in the mix and so James doesn't get all those cymbals directly in his ears on stage ..."

But he has to go on and on and on about how it's actually not that weird, actually, thank you very much.

It goes some way to backing up my belief that he only sets his kit up weird *because* it's not "usual" and because other people have said it's silly. . .

Like - you think having my crashes at arms length is silly ? Right - i'm going to put the hi hats up there then...

You think having a kit this massive is a bit silly ? I'm going to have 6 bass drums.



I know he's said he doesn't want to retire one day and regret NOT doing all this crazy stuff when he wanted to - but - he should stop letting people get to him so much.


(inb4 someone else replies telling me I should stop telling mangini what he SHOULD do - on a Dream Theater 'discussion forum')

Offline nikatapi

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I'm not at all shocked by Mangini over-explaining himself. He always gets very defensive. Like - when asked why his hi hats are so high up

he doesn't just go " It's for separation in the mix and so James doesn't get all those cymbals directly in his ears on stage ..."

But he has to go on and on and on about how it's actually not that weird, actually, thank you very much.

It goes some way to backing up my belief that he only sets his kit up weird *because* it's not "usual" and because other people have said it's silly. . .

Like - you think having my crashes at arms length is silly ? Right - i'm going to put the hi hats up there then...

You think having a kit this massive is a bit silly ? I'm going to have 6 bass drums.



I know he's said he doesn't want to retire one day and regret NOT doing all this crazy stuff when he wanted to - but - he should stop letting people get to him so much.


(inb4 someone else replies telling me I should stop telling mangini what he SHOULD do - on a Dream Theater 'discussion forum')


He does indeed overexplain himself, you're right.
To be fair, when i met him, it did feel like he has a very peculiar way of thinking, and he seems to have a very deep thought process which might get misunderstood sometimes.
On the other hand, maybe he didn't have this kind of interaction with fans before joining DT, and we all know how passionate/crazy DT fans are, especially given how some people are always in the corner waiting to criticize/analyse everything. Maybe he still hasn't figured out how to cope with that.

Anyway i'm really excited about the new album, with MM having found what works in terms of sound within the DT soundscapes.

Offline MirrorMask

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Kinda off topic but Petrucci has always been the best public speaker for the band and he always, ALWAYS knows the right thing to say and how to say. I can't remember any single circumstance in which I thought "Geez, JP, get a social media manager or something". He always knows what to say and how to say it without ever generating controversy or pissing off anyone. At a certain levels it's a gift, beside the experience of being so many years in the game.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Exactly. JP is the best spokesperson for the band.

MP was probably the worst - with his " Black Clouds is like all our best songs on one CD ! "

Offline Fritzinger

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Maybe it's because English is not my first language, but I have trouble following MM's posts... I don't know, often I just don't understand what he means or how he means it (as in, I don't understand if he's joking, if he's angry or confused etc.). Does anyone feel the same? Or is it really just the language barrier?
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Offline tiago

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I don't know what these guys are doing. I think probably DT15 can be released before Rock In Rio, and they'll play some new songs at the festival.

Offline Kotowboy

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Honestly when I hear Mangini go into minute detail to explain every decision

it just sounds like he’s trying to convince himself. Not a dig as I like the guy.

Offline emtee

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I'm just happy he's so enthused about his recorded performance.

Offline hefdaddy42

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I love Mangini, but often he uses a lot of words without actually communicating a whole lot.  It's part of his charm, and I like it, and he's that way in person as well; maybe it came from his teaching days.  But he's not the person I would look to for accurate DT info.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Yeah, I agree. I didn't take that the new DT album would be "as heavy as Annihilator", but the way he worded it, it surely sounded like we'd have a d/t part II coming.

With the amount of energy you can hear in the songs, and from watching some of the studio footage they have shown us, and the inclusion of Viper King. Makes me feel, this energy was expanded two fold for Mangini, if it's the most energetic and unrelenting since his those days. And that makes me think, that energy that you can hear on D/T, will be even more... :corn

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Offline Kotowboy

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Also when metal bands say their latest album is the heaviest one theyve done - it usually isn't. Not by a long way.

It probably means they know its no good and are just trying to hype it up. ( not saying thats the case here as MM didn't say it was heavy - just energetic ).

Offline bosk1

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Maybe it's because English is not my first language, but I have trouble following MM's posts... I don't know, often I just don't understand what he means or how he means it (as in, I don't understand if he's joking, if he's angry or confused etc.). Does anyone feel the same? Or is it really just the language barrier?

It's not just the language barrier.  :lol  I'm a native speaker, and I have trouble following some of the things he says. 
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Offline Kotowboy

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Maybe it's because English is not my first language, but I have trouble following MM's posts... I don't know, often I just don't understand what he means or how he means it (as in, I don't understand if he's joking, if he's angry or confused etc.). Does anyone feel the same? Or is it really just the language barrier?

It's not just the language barrier.  :lol  I'm a native speaker, and I have trouble following some of the things he says.

Right. And even as a drummer - sometimes he'll explain what he's playing in a section and why and i'm like  :sadpanda:?? If me, a drummer ( who studied theory for 3 years )

doesn't understand what you're saying - then Joe Schmoe isn't going to.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Mangini is a smart guy. I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

I can imagine something similar happens with his public banter. Here we are, trying to find sense to a post he wrote with a reflection of their current creative process and he probably knew something like this would happen. As my old friend Hef said, it's part of his charm.
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Offline Kotowboy

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So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?

Just play dude.

Offline Dedalus

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So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?

Just play dude.

Maybe it's his way of handling everything he has to put up with, since he can't just send a bunch of people to fuck off.  :lol

Perhaps it is unconscious.

Or maybe he's just a weird person.   :biggrin:

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?

Just play dude.
Artists sometimes do weird things. It happens and it should not a big deal. I cannot imagine any of the other drum candidates to replace Portnoy would've poured so much energy into this band, and that is enough for me. DT is alive and well because of him, and any other little MM gimmick becomes really irrelevant after taking that into account (at least for me). I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate. Are we really out of things to talk about regarding this band? Maybe we should talk again about how DT died after the departure of Kevin Moore.  :lol
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Offline gzarruk

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So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?

Just play dude.
Artists sometimes do weird things. It happens and it should not a big deal. I cannot imagine any of the other drum candidates to replace Portnoy would've poured so much energy into this band, and that is enough for me. DT is alive and well because of him, and any other little MM gimmick becomes really irrelevant after taking that into account. I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate. Are we really out of things to talk about regarding this band? Maybe we should talk again about how DT died after the departure of Kevin Moore.  :lol

Imagine if Bobby Jarzombek got the gig and we would see lots of comments on how stupid his cymbals look placed behind him :lol
(Video for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0GhbFqIQCo)

Btw, on Mike's original post someone asked: Still "high-hats"? and Mike replied "Always. but they're all twisted up differently this time." So we can expect yet another setup change for this album/future tour :biggrin:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Mangini is a smart guy. I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

 :lol

Then he goes on to explain, that when people actually sit on his kit, they realize the cymbals are not that high at all.

Shows, it is all perspective, because Mangini is usually positioned high and center, it makes his Kit look taller than it really is.

So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?

Just play dude.
Artists sometimes do weird things. It happens and it should not a big deal. I cannot imagine any of the other drum candidates to replace Portnoy would've poured so much energy into this band, and that is enough for me. DT is alive and well because of him, and any other little MM gimmick becomes really irrelevant after taking that into account. I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate. Are we really out of things to talk about regarding this band? Maybe we should talk again about how DT died after the departure of Kevin Moore.  :lol

Artists like to fuck with people. And I find it hilarious when they play with the gullible mind.

It's why I find it funny during the Distance Memories, and that entire tour, MM's drum solo for Finally Free (Finally Free ends with a drum solo), he makes musical comedy and messes with the entire band, by playing in rhythms and time sigs that are just on that line of being in time and not really on time, but they really are in time, and tries to throw them off, and us the audience as well. He knows the majority of Dream Theater fans have musical knowledge, and would notice the stuff he is doing. JP, JM, and JR really have to make sure to stay in time, as the tides have turned and now they are the ones subjected to keeping time, and MM is now the soloist.  :biggrin:

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Offline Kotowboy

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I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.


It wouldn't be - if he didn't keep on getting visibly flustered any time an interviewer bought it up.

If he had his hi hats up there from the beginning and someone asked him once and he calmly said " :) its for separation and so Labrie doesnt get all that high frequency

in his ears constantly when we are jamming " that would be it.

But he has to get all defensive about it.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.


It wouldn't be - if he didn't keep on getting visibly flustered any time an interviewer bought it up.

If he had his hi hats up there from the beginning and someone asked him once and he calmly said " :) its for separation and so Labrie doesnt get all that high frequency

in his ears constantly when we are jamming " that would be it.

But he has to get all defensive about it.

Well, what the hell do you want him or expect him to say. He is giving you his reasons why, and is also, upset that people are not listening and just have to keep asking..."But Why?" it sounds like that girl from Animaniacs who keeps annoying the adults by asking "Whyyyy?" then says "Okay, I love you, Buh-Bye"
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Offline Kotowboy

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I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.

It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.
But he has to get all defensive about it.
The ever-so-popular Mike Portnoy has done pretty nasty things during his career because of emotional turmoil and that really doesn't make me think any less of him (he's human, after all, and not a God as I liked calling him when I was like 14). For years and years, he was so defensive about so many things regarding DT in his forum that you could really feel the emotion pouring from his words (there's even this song, Never Enough, which is this angry hymn about ungrateful fans lol). If you ask me, he has constantly made the mistake of being so personally open in his social media (and then you have people being asses regarding his political posts in his Facebook/Instagram) and him having to constantly filter posts, erase things and such. It's emotional turmoil (for both him and his closest fans) that could be avoided.

Then again, any of that makes me think any less of him. He's been an ass sometimes about things, but meh. We've all been. The difference is that they are people we admire/have admired and we love talking about them. The good he's done outweighs the bad by a ton.

We should all learn about John Petrucci. John Petrucci is civil, has a tranquil mind and knows exactly what to post and what not to post. He never gets into any sort of online conflict because he's smart. Let's all be like John Petrucci.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 10:45:45 AM by DarkLord_Lalinc »
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.

It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.

Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?

I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.

Here's that interview I saw....

https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90

It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.


He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.
But he has to get all defensive about it.
The ever-so-popular Mike Portnoy has done pretty nasty things during his career because of emotional turmoil and that really doesn't make me think any less of him (he's human, after all, and not a God as I liked calling him when I was like 14). For years and years, he was so defensive about so many things regarding DT in his forum that you could really feel the emotion pouring from his words (there's even this song, Never Enough, which is this angry hymn about ungrateful fans lol). If you ask me, he has constantly made the mistake of being so personally open in his social media (and then you have people being asses regarding his political posts in his Facebook/Instagram) and him having to constantly filter posts, erase things and such. It's emotional turmoil (for both him and his closest fans) that could be avoided.

Then again, any of that makes me think any less of him. He's been an ass sometimes about things, but meh. We've all been. The difference is that they are people we admire/have admired and we love talking about them. The good he's done outweighs the bad by a ton.

We should all learn about John Petrucci. John Petrucci is civil, has a tranquil mind and knows exactly what to post and what not to post. He never gets into any sort of online conflict because he's smart. Let's all be like John Petrucci.

I think we need to go more towards the JM philosophy. Just keep silent, and only talk when asked, and keep practicing and playing.  :biggrin:
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Offline Stadler

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Quote
I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.

It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.

Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?

I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.

Here's that interview I saw....

https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90

It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.


He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.

I value thinking outside the box to do something different to achieve an end.   Eddie Van Halen's brown sound.   Rick Allen's whatever that's called that he sits behind (drum kit doesn't seem to suffice).   

I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people. 

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Quote
I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.

It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.

Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?

I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.

Here's that interview I saw....

https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90

It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.


He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.

I value thinking outside the box to do something different to achieve an end.   Eddie Van Halen's brown sound.   Rick Allen's whatever that's called that he sits behind (drum kit doesn't seem to suffice).   

I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people.

Wait. What is this for? His drumming, or him just doing things for show?
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Offline bosk1

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I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people. 

I don't either.  I don't identify with that and find it to be an odd way to live one's life.  But that being said, here's the thing I come back to on that:  For some, expressing and asserting one's individuality can be an overwhelming, driving force in their lives.  We see that all the time, and expressed in many different ways.  And sometimes, that drives some to be driven by the desire to do whatever it takes to "stick it to the man"--or, rather, stick it to any dissenters--in order to assert that individuality, even if that means going to some extremes at times that seem irrational to others.  To someone who feels that way, and for whom music is their chosen outlet for expressing their individuality, I guess I can somewhat understand feeling driven to do things that don't make sense just because others feel that that isn't the "right way."  And that in turn being manifested by something along the lines of, "Wait, you subjectively believe that the way I choose to do what I do isn't the "right" way to do it?  And you presume to tell me that I am wrong for doing what I want to do?  OK, well not only am I not going to stop doing it that way, but let me see if I can even take it up a notch.  Challenge accepted." 
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Offline Stadler

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I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.

To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.

It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.

Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?

I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.

Here's that interview I saw....

https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90

It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.


He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.

I value thinking outside the box to do something different to achieve an end.   Eddie Van Halen's brown sound.   Rick Allen's whatever that's called that he sits behind (drum kit doesn't seem to suffice).   

I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people.

Wait. What is this for? His drumming, or him just doing things for show?

I'm not sure I know, because I don't know what's in Mike's head.   For me, I'd be like "I put the cymbals there because that's how I like to play them, and that's where I think they look cool.  Next question!"  He's an artist with something (musical) to say, and an entertainer putting on a show.  That's all that matters; doing something within those parameters to "tweek" people that might comment on it seems like a lot of work for little return, and with little contribution to the end goals of "musician" and "entertainer".  It's not like he's a social commentator like John Lydon.

Offline Kotowboy

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Petrucci reminds me of The Edge - you almost never see Edge angry - and always speaks with calm and clarity.

Offline bosk1

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Petrucci reminds me of The Edge - you almost never see Edge angry - and always speaks with calm and clarity.

I have heard that he is always Edgy. 

:neverusethis:
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Offline Stadler

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I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people. 

I don't either.  I don't identify with that and find it to be an odd way to live one's life.  But that being said, here's the thing I come back to on that:  For some, expressing and asserting one's individuality can be an overwhelming, driving force in their lives.  We see that all the time, and expressed in many different ways.  And sometimes, that drives some to be driven by the desire to do whatever it takes to "stick it to the man"--or, rather, stick it to any dissenters--in order to assert that individuality, even if that means going to some extremes at times that seem irrational to others.  To someone who feels that way, and for whom music is their chosen outlet for expressing their individuality, I guess I can somewhat understand feeling driven to do things that don't make sense just because others feel that that isn't the "right way."  And that in turn being manifested by something along the lines of, "Wait, you subjectively believe that the way I choose to do what I do isn't the "right" way to do it?  And you presume to tell me that I am wrong for doing what I want to do?  OK, well not only am I not going to stop doing it that way, but let me see if I can even take it up a notch.  Challenge accepted."

I definitely see that.  100%.  But then if one's being honest, the answer (see my above post) ought to be "Because that's my individuality, bitches. Suck it, Trebek!"  Although I don't take the position myself, I have no place to tell others how to act; I just find the coyness and passivity of it hard to reconcile.  If one is going to be an individual, you think they'd own it.

Offline BlackInk

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I just want some whahíbrido pickingant.

Offline bosk1

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Don't we all?
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."