Author Topic: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)  (Read 346548 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
With the production of the recent Christmas medley - just with a touch more reverb ! :)

I am happy with the sound Jimmy T is getting them. And I think his recording technique is a part of this amazing sound. especially with the drums.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Plus they have their own studio.

Probably said this before - but don't do a Foo Fighters - make a huge deal about getting your own studio with the Sound City console - then literally never use it

to record an album. . . .

Offline hunnus2000

  • Posts: 1920
I can't wait for the MP fanboyz to listen to the new album and talk about how MP would have been better and would have inspired a better album.

Come on, everyone's thinking it, I'm just sayin it... :yarr

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12440
  • Gender: Male
Which is more annoying:  "MP fanboys" talking about how MP > MM or non-"MP fanboys" saying, without provocation, "I can't wait for MP fanboys to do ____"?
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12791
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Which is more annoying:  "MP fanboys" talking about how MP > MM or non-"MP fanboys" saying, without provocation, "I can't wait for MP fanboys to do ____"?

Yes.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3718
Non-"MP Fanboys" just have more feel in their posts.

Offline Architeuthis

  • Posts: 3770
  • Gender: Male
I hope it has more cowbell!  :natalieportman:   :metal
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

Offline Pax

  • an operator acting over a Hilbert space
  • Posts: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • pianist and music theorist
It's been 10 years since they make a decent album so I don't really have much hope, but it would really be nice if they finally let their songs have some room to evolve again and made them longer
!̸̶͚͖͖̩̻̩̗͍̮̙̈͊͛̈͒̍̐ͣͩ̋ͨ̓̊̌̈̊́̚͝͠ͅ ̷̧̢̛͖̤̟̺̫̗͚̗͖ͪ̏̔̔̒́ͥ̓ͫ̀ͤ̇ͥ͝ ̡̊͛̇F.F.Chopin!̸̶͚͖͖̩̻̩̗͍̮̙̈͊͛̈͒̍̐ͣͩ̋ͨ̓̊̌̈̊́̚͝͠ͅ ̷̧̢̛͖̤̟̺̫̗͚̗͖ͪ̏̔̔̒́ͥ̓ͫ̀ͤ̇ͥ͝ ̡̊͛̇

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
It's been 10 years since they make a decent album...

 :rollin good joke.

So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?

Offline Polarbear

  • Posts: 1497
  • Gender: Male
I have to say, that I'm hoping for an album full of shorter songs again!

D/T proved that they can weave all the Dream Theater elements into a shorter song structure, without losing anything. D/T was the best DT album in a long time, because it was filled with great and memorable songs, and just enough musical flexing.

A bunch of 4-8 minute songs and maybe one song "over 10 minutes". And make that one long song really special.

Above all, I'm hoping it's going to be great. :tup D/T made me interested about future DT releases again, and it's a great feeling!

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13326
  • Gender: Male
I'm fine with whatever lenght, but the song has to be cohesive.

I mean, take any random verse / chorus / verse / chorus / solo / chorus x2 song, start to add a random intro at the beginning, a different outro at the end, then in the middle stick a long solo section that does not belong with the general vibe of the song, and suddenly you have an "epic". Anyone can stick a random intro or outro or longass solo section in a song to make it longer.

Voices and The Dark Eternal Night are more or less the same lenght, just short of 10 minutes if I remember correctly, but Voices is definitively more complex and with more mood changes than TDEN. I'm more interested in 10 minutes songs like Voices, or even At Wit's End for a more recent example, that song flows quite well and it does not try to be long for the sake of being long.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline IgnotusPerIgnotium

  • Posts: 138
  • Gender: Male
Going from my response in the D/T thread...

This is how I see the band now...

The band has found a style that they all gel in, and they feel like staying in and exploring it, rather than dipping their toes in it, getting a taste of it's warm and relaxing and even therapeutic quality, and then getting pulled out and moving on to the next one. And I feel they did that with their Self-Titled album. That is the album that truly defined the present day Dream Theater sound and style.

They were forced to leave their current hot springs, as it decided to ease the overload of the crowd, and chose them to leave the spring (MP's departure). So the band, found a new hot spring (Mangini), and dipped their toes in it (ADTOE), basked in it (DT), and now quite enjoy it (D/T). The decision they enjoy the spring is after JP decided to make something to eat, and the band stepped out to make some BBQ (The Astonishing) before going back into the Hot Spring....

Which is where we are with DT15. And it is looking like they are really benefitting from basking in this Hot Spring.

Yeah that's a good way to put it, actually in recent interviews MM has clarified that initially he just watched the other guys how they communicate and how their process of writing is happening. When the self titled was written he was still at that stage and also he mentioned that he had things and ideas to contribute but they weren't at a 'DT' level yet. Then TA was basically a two men's effort, but leading up to DoT, JP mainly decided to really let go and try to make an album that is clearly a collective effort, bringing forth each member's ideas and suggestions.

Now DT15 should build upon that, except that -as far as they've told us- going in, the music direction will be more like an improvisational effort that will morph into songs than having pre-written riffs and snippets. The code of writing that they've developed is maturing and that's an element I'm looking forward to hear.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 05:24:44 AM by IgnotusPerIgnotium »

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
I'm fine with whatever lenght, but the song has to be cohesive.

I mean, take any random verse / chorus / verse / chorus / solo / chorus x2 song, start to add a random intro at the beginning, a different outro at the end, then in the middle stick a long solo section that does not belong with the general vibe of the song, and suddenly you have an "epic". Anyone can stick a random intro or outro or longass solo section in a song to make it longer.

Voices and The Dark Eternal Night are more or less the same lenght, just short of 10 minutes if I remember correctly, but Voices is definitively more complex and with more mood changes than TDEN. I'm more interested in 10 minutes songs like Voices, or even At Wit's End for a more recent example, that song flows quite well and it does not try to be long for the sake of being long.


Ahh, I agree with you here about Song Structure. But they've been doing this for a long time. All their "Singles" are of this structure. Maybe that is what people actually miss, is their structure of their songs not being an extended version of the Verse-Chorus-Bridge-Chorus style of structure.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1638
  • Gender: Male
I'm really looking forward to the album, i liked D/T a lot, and it has actually grown on me since its release.

I love the fact that Mike has found a good sound as in my opinion both ADTOE and DT12 undersold his efforts, even though he had so many interesting ideas.
Hoping to see more JR contribution, i love his piano playing, but i would also like to see less "cheesy" ballad-type songs.

The big question is James, and the choices that will be made both in terms of range but also production, as D/T was probably the first (and only) DT album on which i feel a bit disappointed by his performance.

Offline IgnotusPerIgnotium

  • Posts: 138
  • Gender: Male
Hoping to see more JR contribution, i love his piano playing, but i would also like to see less "cheesy" ballad-type songs.

On DoT or on any other album he is along with JP the leading force is contribution and creative ideas for sure. I am a big fan of JR, with the exception that his solos are kinda generic for a very very long time now. Nevertheless, DoT is an album with guitars and drums booming first and the keyboards in this setting are destined to be more laid back, but I'm looking forward too in having him a little more present in the overall sound.

Offline erwinrafael

  • Posts: 3436
  • Gender: Male
I hope there would be more James Labrie lyrics. At Wit's End is amazing.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
I'm fine with no Myung lyrics. They're not that great in my opinion. Mainly just well-meaning platitudinous rhetoric.

Just stuff like " Look into the water - the reflection frees your mind. Time is frozen. Look outwards. Search within"

Ehhh ?

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
I'm fine with no Myung lyrics. They're not that great in my opinion. Mainly just well-meaning platitudinous rhetoric.

Just stuff like " Look into the water - the reflection frees your mind. Time is frozen. Look outwards. Search within"

Ehhh ?

Not Signal to Noise. That one I think is about the Wow signal. That's why they put the "Wow" quietly in the song.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5144
  • Gender: Male
We haven't gotten one with "water's edge" in a while, it's time for another :lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline hunnus2000

  • Posts: 1920
I'm fine with no Myung lyrics. They're not that great in my opinion. Mainly just well-meaning platitudinous rhetoric.

Just stuff like " Look into the water - the reflection frees your mind. Time is frozen. Look outwards. Search within"

Ehhh ?

Not Signal to Noise. That one I think is about the Wow signal. That's why they put the "Wow" quietly in the song.

Are you talking about the signal captured in 1977 from the Big Ear telescope?

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
DREAM THEATER : " WATERS EDGE "

1. Waters Edge Overture

2. Waters Edge
 i. Water
ii. The Edge
iii. Water's Edge
iv. The Edge of The Water
v. Where the Water Meets The Edge

3. While My Water gently Edges
4. Thanks to Water for Over The Edge !
5. Water Finale!

Online Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16235
  • Gender: Male
5. Is It Really Water's Edge?
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Pax

  • an operator acting over a Hilbert space
  • Posts: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • pianist and music theorist
It's been 10 years since they make a decent album...

 :rollin good joke.

So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?
Not shit, but pretty mediocre. There are a few decent songs but none of them I would consider to come even close to some of their earlier material (Illumination theory being the only exception). And the reason why that is so is because they abandoned development sections. There is almost zero development of melodic ideas throughout the songs (which is necessary in order to have the music flow and evolve). Their proggy songs became clusterfucks of consecutive ideas, where they introduce cool riffs or sick technical sections one after another with no logical flow. What this achieves is that it makes songs more accessible to general audience, you can basically tune up to any section and you won't miss any context. Before, you had to listen a whole song numerous times and stay focused throughout in order for it to make sense. That's what I loved about DT, but I guess that's not what makes as much profit
!̸̶͚͖͖̩̻̩̗͍̮̙̈͊͛̈͒̍̐ͣͩ̋ͨ̓̊̌̈̊́̚͝͠ͅ ̷̧̢̛͖̤̟̺̫̗͚̗͖ͪ̏̔̔̒́ͥ̓ͫ̀ͤ̇ͥ͝ ̡̊͛̇F.F.Chopin!̸̶͚͖͖̩̻̩̗͍̮̙̈͊͛̈͒̍̐ͣͩ̋ͨ̓̊̌̈̊́̚͝͠ͅ ̷̧̢̛͖̤̟̺̫̗͚̗͖ͪ̏̔̔̒́ͥ̓ͫ̀ͤ̇ͥ͝ ̡̊͛̇

Offline illusionist

  • Posts: 113
It's the 11th DT album that i have been waiting for,since i first (SFAM) i discovered and loved the band!
The feeling is always the same (well,maybe after Systematic Chaos i had been dissapointed)
I always go back to that period,late '99,when i first listened to Scenes.
Then the wait for SDoIT,ToT,where i didn't have internet at home and i used to go to internet cafes to learn everything about the new DT album.
I always look forward to anything i can learn about the writing/recording/mixing etc.
Band members intervies,snippets from the actual material,etc.

As for DT 15,i can't predict what they have come up with this time,but i know what i want to hear from them.
Some really melodic prog music,surprising riffs and choruses,and unpredictable overall.
A dark epic song,like Finally Free or In the Name of God.
A very fresh sounding 8 string song.
And JP trying new things on guitar,but returning to his 90's melodic self.
Maybe i want too much,but hey,we all can dream.

Mike Mangini update about unrelenting material sounds really really promising to my ears.
And as difficult as it may seem for them to rediscover their musical identity after so many years,
i do believe they 'owe' us,and can deliver,a really top album,like I&W and SFAM.

Also,to not forget new LTE!
The passage of time is a beautiful song,brought me back memories,and even some tears to my eyes.
JR atmospheric passages and JP solos shine and make me happy about the entire album.
2 DT albums in the same year?2021 is going to be a great year,right from the get go!

Offline IDontNotDoThings

  • Posts: 3627
DREAM THEATER : " WATERS EDGE "

1. Waters Edge Overture

2. Waters Edge
 i. Water
ii. The Edge
iii. Water's Edge
iv. The Edge of The Water
v. Where the Water Meets The Edge

3. While My Water gently Edges
4. Thanks to Water for Over The Edge !
5. Water Finale!

Bonus track:
6. Water's Edge (Caligula's Horse cover)
ドリームシアターはあまり好きではありませんが、ペンと紙を持っていたので、なんてこった。

Offline Dedalus

  • Posts: 1012
  • Gender: Male
I can't wait for the MP fanboyz to listen to the new album and talk about how MP would have been better and would have inspired a better album.

Come on, everyone's thinking it, I'm just sayin it... :yarr

They don't even have to listen. There was news on the biggest Heavy Metal portal in my country today, something like: "The next album's drums are already recorded, according to Mike Mangini."

Of the 51 comments, only 4 are positive... :lol

It is true that a large part of the negative comments are from people who do not like DT (with or without MP), but there are a good portion of those who think that "the band died at BC&SL".

At least here, the prestige of DT is not what it once was.

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
They make as much sense as

" Metallica died with Cliff "

" There's no good Metallica album after Justice "

Offline Fritzinger

  • Posts: 2556
  • Gender: Male
It's been 10 years since they make a decent album...

 :rollin good joke.

So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?
Not shit, but pretty mediocre. There are a few decent songs but none of them I would consider to come even close to some of their earlier material (Illumination theory being the only exception). And the reason why that is so is because they abandoned development sections. There is almost zero development of melodic ideas throughout the songs (which is necessary in order to have the music flow and evolve). Their proggy songs became clusterfucks of consecutive ideas, where they introduce cool riffs or sick technical sections one after another with no logical flow. What this achieves is that it makes songs more accessible to general audience, you can basically tune up to any section and you won't miss any context. Before, you had to listen a whole song numerous times and stay focused throughout in order for it to make sense. That's what I loved about DT, but I guess that's not what makes as much profit

That's the hottest take I've read in a while.
any rock can be made to roll

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52785
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
It's been 10 years since they make a decent album...

 :rollin good joke.

So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?
Not shit, but pretty mediocre. There are a few decent songs but none of them I would consider to come even close to some of their earlier material (Illumination theory being the only exception). And the reason why that is so is because they abandoned development sections. There is almost zero development of melodic ideas throughout the songs (which is necessary in order to have the music flow and evolve). Their proggy songs became clusterfucks of consecutive ideas, where they introduce cool riffs or sick technical sections one after another with no logical flow. What this achieves is that it makes songs more accessible to general audience, you can basically tune up to any section and you won't miss any context. Before, you had to listen a whole song numerous times and stay focused throughout in order for it to make sense. That's what I loved about DT, but I guess that's not what makes as much profit
That's bonkers.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline devieira73

  • Posts: 2834
  • Gender: Male
  • Boldly go where no brazilian has gone before...
From MM's Facebook:

"From 2 people to me: "I heard the new DT was really, really heavy!" And my reaction was, "what the heck are you talking about?" "Well, you said it was heavy in some article." [Meanwhile, I am the guy in question being clear about what I said or not. And I still get, "but I read it." ] Hello?
  But of course! "News" copied my post from this FB page - and of course, that was copied and reposted with the proverbial "spin" on things. They all left out the same line btw.
 And then commenters added their interpretations of the false interpretation and there you have it! The news of a new DT album that will be heavy and even thrash. Thrash? Seriously?  I referred to Annihilator in a totally, completely different context than sound or genre and was dead clear and dead-on correct using the word "energy." I was dead-on correct saying this album reminded me of that kind of feeling I had after an Annihilator album that had a top to bottom energy to it. That doesn't mean tempo, style or heavy etc. Energy means what it is defined to mean, even with the melody aspect. Way different styles can have energy. I could've appropriately used albums like Purple Rain, or House of the Holy too how it plays from top to bottom. I used the Annihilator reference. Maybe because I played on it and I didn't play on Houses of the Holy.
So now, I'm putting a stop to this as it will worsen because real history shows that's exactly what happens with things like this. More people will be led astray. 100% for sure."
"one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12791
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Well, to be fair to those who took his comments as meaning it would be heavy, when I read his comments about having an energy similar to Annihilator, I took that to mean "heavy" as well.  Yes, that comment could mean a LOT of different things.  But without any further context given, my mind goes to "heavy."

I get that it's annoying to be quoted out of context, or to have fans glom on to some little tidbit of information and extrapolate it into something that was never intended, but he could have been more gracious about and said something like, "Oh, that isn't what I meant at all.  Sorry, I see why you took it that way, but I actually meant something completely different."
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
He wouldn't have said anything, more than likely, if it didn't get to the point it did. He didn't want what he said to be miscomprehended out of context, and turn into a false claim and headlines of "The new Dream Theater album will be Thrash, according to Mangini", where people will then have expectations that the album will be Heavy and Thrashy, to those that read that article, or can't read his Facebook post.

I did not comprehend his words to mean THE NEW DT ALBUM will be heavy, at all. What I meant with my post earlier about Mangini and his Unrelenting comment is, I can't wait to hear what Mangini meant by unrelenting. Even his Annihilator quote, I didn't get a sense of him talking about the Dream Theater album being heavy, more so he hasn't felt that energy he is feeling while making DT15 since his days of Annihilator.

I find it funny, you are getting upset at Mangini clarifying an expectation that you, at least admitted, made, and he was probably irritated at the time when he posted it. He said it the best way he could of at the time.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12791
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
I'm not upset at him at all.  I'm just saying that he could have handled it better, especially since what the fans thought is a logical leap from what he said.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13326
  • Gender: Male
Yeah, I agree. I didn't take that the new DT album would be "as heavy as Annihilator", but the way he worded it, it surely sounded like we'd have a d/t part II coming.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline IgnotusPerIgnotium

  • Posts: 138
  • Gender: Male
Many people unfortunately take things very literally..in the crazy era of social networking  everything one says spreads so fast you cannot really control anything, especially with the millions of interpretations everyone makes..
On another note, if the new album has the energy and heaviness of DoT I would gladly welcome it..but it would turn me off if we got a DoT 2 in terms of the same direction without changing anything and playing safe.