DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[TAC]

I don't see the harm in knowing the tracklist beforehand.  I mean sure it doesn't tell you anything but that, but I always enjoy finding out little bits of tidbits like that in the lead up to an album.

Zaccly

[RMGadelha]

Same here! It's part of the fun to me.

[Setlist Scotty]

I messaged you about it, Scotty. You'll see what we found and it will most likely make sense to you.

Thanks Max!
 
 

Besides, who would go bat shit crazy over anything Flying Colors related??

Gonna take a wild guess on this one and say "Flying Colors fans". 
 
 

...the copyrights for all of the WDADU songs are owned by the then-band members and/or business entities that they own and control. 

...

Mechanic Records was a sub-label started by MCA, and MCA did not commonly do this.

Not sure what leads you to either of those conclusions.  But anyhow...

With respect to the ownership of the copyrights, anyone can run searches on the U.S. Copyright Office's website, which I did, and those searches indicate that the musical composition copyrights are owned as indicated.  The only way that's not true is if there have been unrecorded transfers of the ownership, which is unlikely.

I'm not sure which of the two statements about MCA you're questioning.  Mechanic Records being a sub-label of MCA is public knowledge and easily verified through any number of online sources.  The other statement is more based on what I know about UMG through having represented it, but MCA was folded into UMG only a couple years after I graduated law school, so I'll admit there's no real basis for that statement as it relates to MCA.

Just to set the record straight on this one: I recall reading interviews or hearing comments from MP that they could go back in the studio to re-record WDaDU. The issue is they didn't want to. But then again, for the longest time, he also maintained that they wouldn't record covers in the studio either, and eventually they did BCaSL with the covers bonus disc. So legally speaking, it doesn't appear to be an issue of whether they could re-record WDaDU in the studio - it's just a matter of whether they want to do it or not, and for the foreseeable future, the answer seems to be no.

The only thing that the band has zero control over are the original recordings. Way back in 2001, when it was announced that One Way was going to do some sort of remastered version of the album, I managed to get in contact with the guy who was putting it together to ask about bonus stuff or even do a proper remix (as had been discussed by the band during the 92-93 tour) to make it more worthwhile to fans who already had WDaDU. The guy said it was possible, so I forwarded the e-mail to MP who in turn passed it on to Frank Solomon to look into. MP said they would be willing to contribute but only if it was worth the band's time. Apparently this was not the first time there had been some discussion between that label and the band/management, but since it seemed like the guy I had contacted was more reasonable, maybe something could be worked out. But as we all know, that didn't end up being the case, so the remastered WDaDU was issued as is with no bonus materials - not even the promo remixes of SSeeker and AL that Terry Brown had done (which I assume the label owned) which I had brought up as a possibility.

[Ben_Jamin]

I believe your right...

They do not have any control over the original stems. So if they were to re-do WDADU, they'd have to record all the parts all over again.

Why would you waste time on something that isn't a big deal besides for a few hardcore, dedicated fans? Rather than spending that time making a new album, touring, or spending time with family and friends.

[darkshade]

I'm just sitting here waiting for audio.

[RMGadelha]

Yes.

[deggs37]

Indubitably.

[Setlist Scotty]

Why would you waste time on something that isn't a big deal besides for a few hardcore, dedicated fans? Rather than spending that time making a new album, touring, or spending time with family and friends.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone was hoping they would do it as a standalone release. But as a bonus CD to their new album, or maybe if/when they come out with another compilation or box set, it would be a nice inclusion and would draw the attention of more of their fans to the album.

[gzarruk]

Why would you waste time on something that isn't a big deal besides for a few hardcore, dedicated fans? Rather than spending that time making a new album, touring, or spending time with family and friends.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone was hoping they would do it as a standalone release. But as a bonus CD to their new album, or maybe if/when they come out with another compilation or box set, it would be a nice inclusion and would draw the attention of more of their fans to the album.

This. To me, it made the most sense to do it at the same time as D/T and release it all in 2019 (30th anniversary of WDADU). I guess they could still do it for the 35th in 2024

Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:

TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05

It's also time to start guessing why Kyo is going with a sea creatures theme with most of his guesses! 

 

Incontinent Manatee is clearly a sequel to ITPOE (redemption for you, manatee)

[KevShmev]

Eh, only two guys who played/sang on the original album are still in the band, so I don't see the point. I would have love to have gotten a newer version of it once JLB joined the band and Kevin Moore was still around, but once I heard how Rudess (over)played Moore's parts, any interest in hearing a new version of it went out the window for me; I don't enjoy When Dream and Day Reunite that much because of Jordan.  I will stick with the original album, flaws and all.

[Stadler]

Why would you waste time?  IF there was any monetary benefit to those songs, the band would then have a version they could use that they could control.   I don't know how many copies of that record are still being sold, but if there are any, or if there are any licensing opportunities, or as tracks on a compilation, it could then be versions that the band would have say in, and would be able to receive income off of, rather than having to include versions in order for completeness, but with revenue going to a recalcitrant record company that doesn't want to work with them.

[darkshade]

Agreed with KevShmev, I would have liked WDaDU to be re-recorded some time in 1992 or 1993, when JLB still had his young voice, Moore (and MP) was still in the band, with the production values of the time period. I feel like a modern re-recording would have the songs downtuned for JLB and/or JP for low heavy tones, mastered too hot, plus I don't want to hear Rudess' antics or Mangini's perfect drum hits on those songs.

[nikatapi]

If there's a couple albums in need of re-recording / remix, those are ADTOE and DT12.
Leave the old stuff where it is, it has a certain charm, i'm personally more bothered by the sound of the two above albums than WDADU.

Also, i'm extremely hyped about the new album, and even though i would love to experience the whole album at once, i'm going to listen to the first single a million times 

[KevShmev]

If there's a couple albums in need of re-recording / remix, those are ADTOE and DT12.
Leave the old stuff where it is, it has a certain charm, i'm personally more bothered by the sound of the two above albums than WDADU.

Also, i'm extremely hyped about the new album, and even though i would love to experience the whole album at once, i'm going to listen to the first single a million times 

I can deal with the louder mix of DT12, especially since I have the HD Version which was an improvement over the original, but, yeah, ADTOE is in dire need of a remix.  That could be a top 5 DT album from a songwriting standpoint, but the dry and muddy mix makes it a tough listen.  In fact, I rarely revisit it anymore simply because the sound of it is too distractingly frustrating.

[noxon]

Apple Music and Tidal both has the HD masters in their streaming catalog, and stream lossless. For most of the DT catalogue, it means there's a high res, lossless, apple digital master, which means it's been mastered to Apples spec, which is actually anti-loudness wars. This actually means that right now, the very best way to enjoy a DT album comes through Apple Music, sound quality wise.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Has anyone made any substantial progress or arrived upon definitive answers to those strange clues?

[gzarruk]

Has anyone made any substantial progress or arrived upon definitive answers to those strange clues?

I think they're just slowly revealing the tracklist with the song abbreviations and track lenghts, but there could be something else we haven't seen yet.

[GasparXR]

I'm just here to say I'm freaking excited, because this probably means we get a single or audio snippets before we know it...

[Bolsters]

Apple Music and Tidal both has the HD masters in their streaming catalog, and stream lossless. For most of the DT catalogue, it means there's a high res, lossless, apple digital master, which means it's been mastered to Apples spec, which is actually anti-loudness wars. This actually means that right now, the very best way to enjoy a DT album comes through Apple Music, sound quality wise.

Are they the same masters as the HDTracks files, or new?

[nikatapi]

Apple Music and Tidal both has the HD masters in their streaming catalog, and stream lossless. For most of the DT catalogue, it means there's a high res, lossless, apple digital master, which means it's been mastered to Apples spec, which is actually anti-loudness wars. This actually means that right now, the very best way to enjoy a DT album comes through Apple Music, sound quality wise.

Sounds good. I'm not sure if the "master" versions on Tidal are from the same dynamic master as the ones on HD tracks, i might have to check that. They definitely sound good though.

[darkshade]

It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.

[nikatapi]

It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.

A sign of the times. Unfortunately, when most people listen to Spotify through shitty wireless headphones, a "loud" sound sounds better.
For audiophiles, usually vinyl is the way to go. I've had good experience with Tidal to be honest, with a pretty great sound quality and the convenience of a streaming service. (Helps that i've registered via vpn on the Turkish site and i pay like 2 euros per month for the super-duper master plan).

[darkshade]

It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.

A sign of the times. Unfortunately, when most people listen to Spotify through shitty wireless headphones, a "loud" sound sounds better.
For audiophiles, usually vinyl is the way to go. I've had good experience with Tidal to be honest, with a pretty great sound quality and the convenience of a streaming service. (Helps that i've registered via vpn on the Turkish site and i pay like 2 euros per month for the super-duper master plan).

It all comes back to the record companies not getting ahead of the illegal downloading trend that started 20+ years ago. I'd like to say the movie companies did a better job handling that, but their products have been shit for 20+ years as well.

However, the average person is not re-buying albums, most aren't buying the physical copy to begin with. So this is pinching pennies out of hardcore fans, and/or audiophiles. This isn't new for a record company to do (how many reissues of Dark Side of the Moon have there been?) but at least they used to put out the good sounding album first. Imagine The Black Album was released first with bad production values? It wouldn't be one of the highest selling albums of all time.

[Ben_Jamin]

It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.

It's usually what happens when people want to be more convenient, quality has to be sacrificed.

An example is food quality for convenience of fast food, on the go, convenience/grocery store food. Most, if not all, of the food in these stores isn't the best quality of food. Might get worms that make you smart from eating a gas station tuna sandwich.

Here in the music world, for convenience, we sacrifice sound quality. Hence with the invention of MP3 players, this is where sound quality began to be dwindled for convenience of being able to store as many songs as possible. And they marketed off the ignorance of the consumer about music quality and sound file formats. How MP3 files are files that lose sound quality, unlike lossless files like .WAV files. The way they marketed these isn't by file size or sound quality, they use the form of "Songs". This mp3 player can hold up to 100 songs, but they don't know the music is gonna sound like ass, unless they read the fine print which says 160Kbps MP3 file size.

[WilliamMunny]

Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:

When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.

As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?

Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.

Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?

I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.

My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?

If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.

I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.

That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.

[Another_Won]

I see the points for wanting a newer version of WDADU but it all ends with this: 

*snip

*snip

Oh, and by the way, WDADRu is a re-recording of the album.

*snip

*snip

[Sebastián Pratesi]

It all comes back to the record companies not getting ahead of the illegal downloading trend that started 20+ years ago. I'd like to say the movie companies did a better job handling that, but their products have been shit for 20+ years as well.

How so?

[Stadler]

Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:

When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.

As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?

Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.

Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?

I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.

My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?

If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.

I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.

That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.

I love you, man.     

[geeeemo]

Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:

When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.

As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?

Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.

Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?

I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.

My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?

If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.

I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.

That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.

I was thinking the Exact same thing!. My listening is mostly when I bike, run, walk, workout. Some in my car. I finally started listening to music again 6 years ago when my boys were teens and I had time to go do this exercising. Before I had kids, it was cassettes (then CD's) in a fanny pack while I ran and some pretty bad little headphones - no earbuds. I discovered DT and started going back to concerts.  I really wouldn't even know the difference in sound unless maybe I were able to do a comparison. For me, I am just happy DT is still making new music!! (please hurry!!)

[nick_z]

Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:

When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.

As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?

Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.

Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?

I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.

My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?

If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.

I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.

That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.

Beautifully said, and I agree with all your points!

[KevShmev]

I will echo others, WilliamMunny.  Great post for sure.  A lot to think about. 

[TAC]

Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:

When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.

As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?

Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.

Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?

I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.

My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?

If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.

So I'm going to quote this too. I read it this morning.

My parents were about the same age as yours when I was born. My parents always had music going. They had albums and 8 tracks, and we used my parents Columbia House free selections to build up my KISS discog when I was like 10 or 11. They weren't fanatics like us here. But they went to a few concerts..OK I'm talking Johnny Mathis and Barry Manilow.
My father was a school teacher and there was a few years where my mother worked 3-11 (she was a nurse), and my father would grade papers at the kitchen table with the radio on. Every time I see a 70's soft rock or one hit wonders of the 70's compilation, it always brings me back to that time in my life.

I didn't step on a plane from 1999 to 2014. So we drove for all of our vacations. My wife loves Disney so we bought into the Disney Vacation Club. During those years, we drove to Disney usually three times a year, sometimes four, and that includes a half dozen times when my stepson was younger before my kids were born. So we are talking 35+ trips driving from Massachusetts to Florida.

Listen to music on these trips was really the only way I could get through them, especially early on. It would rankle my wife because she thought we should be talking or whatever instead of me having my headphones on.
But after few years, she relented...something she rarely does. I didn't care what she wanted to do when we got there. I'd do anything. But I worked hard, and the day/day and a half ride down while listening to music was MY downtime, it was vital to recharge MY battery, and my wife eventually came to realize it and respect it.

The iPod is the best thing ever. But before that, I used a discman. Before each trip, I would "draft" the CDs that would make the trip. It was an event, like the NFL Draft. There was ceremony to it!

I have always referred to those trips as my most important music listening of each respective year. I could choose Megadeth's discography for one trip, albums from a certain year, or DT bootlegs for another.
Some of the guys might remember this, but one year I made a thread where I asked DTF to create Iron Maiden playlists for me, and there could be no repeat songs..yadayada..there were rules, and it was the fucking coolest thing.

To this day, I'll hear a song or an album, and know the exact spot on the East Coast where I was listening to it.

[Dedalus]

That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.

Amen. 

It may just be a longing for me, but every year I miss the conversations about music I had back in the 90s or early 2000s. Nowadays it seems that out of every 10 people talking about music in the groups I attend, 5 are audiophiles! All it takes is for a band to release a new single, and it's hours and hours of discussion of mixing, drum sound, DR etc. If that's what people like to discuss, fine for them... but I'm kind of tired. I just like listening to music. I am not and I hope to die without becoming an audiophile.

[Ben_Jamin]

Precisely, we sacrifice quality for convenience as people do not have the time for music. Compared to how it was before peoples time was focused and spent on other aspects of survival like work, and kids.

I listen to stuff on Spotify, but if I really want to listen to it, I'll look for the actual album.

But, the best way to listen to music is live. You feel a lot more in the songs being played by the musicians live in front of you, than you do a recording. Recordings are a snapshot in time that musicians try and perfect. Sometimes these musicians are not satisfied with that recording and will do re-recordings.

Living in the moment is accepting that the band is not how they were in that snapshot album. You should not expect that musician, especially a vocalist, to sound the same as on that album live today.

JLB does his best, and even at that, he fluctuates a lot. He does also try to improvise live and likes to do different vocal techniques for certain parts.  Even if I don't like it, I still respect him for trying something different if he wants to spice things up for himself.

I am actually interested in how his vocals will be utilized this time. He did great on D/T.

[krands85]

I think someone earlier was asking about the 'post a fake tracklist/artwork' thread for the new album:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=56146