Men are from Mars, Women I have no f*$%ing idea

[The Walrus]

lar discussion, that doesn't mean it is wise or beneficial to choose a mate that you fundamentally disagree with on whatever those "core" issues are.  It is a different type of relationship, and while there are always things that will come up that will put strain on the relationship, I think it is very unwise to needlessly go into a relationship like that with something built-in that is going to perpetually cause strain.

When I was in college there was an adult woman (probably early 40s) in one of my classes who talked about this very thing, and how her husband is a hardcore conservative and she is hardcore liberal. Somehow they made it work. Every once in a while over the last few years I've wondered how they're faring in the Trump Era

[Grappler]

When my wife and I started dating, we decided that we had to agree on three things in order for our relationship to work out:

1.  Religion
2.  Politics
3.  Sammy Hagar as the preferred singer in Van Halen


That is absolutely true.   

[H2]

What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?

[Lonk]

What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? Would it be stupid to walk away?

This one is hard for me. I grew up in a city, but nothing like NYC (Where I am right now). However, I always knew that my future was not in NYC. My partner has been in NYC her whole life and for the first 7 years of our relationship she did not even think about leaving NYC for any other place. Over the last 2 years, through her own experiences and change of thoughts (i guess) we are both now in agreement that NYC is not for us.

I guess what I'm saying is that it was not a deal breaker for me since I was willing to compromise. But maybe further down the road it could have become an issue.

[hefdaddy42]

What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?

If you were both equally passionate about your opinion, it would most likely be a dealbreaker, because you then wouldn't both be in the same place.

With me, I've never cared that much about where we live.  When I got married, my wife had been born and raised and always lived in her small hometown, so we lived there.  Several years ago, she got a great job opportunity in Raleigh (a much larger city), so now we are there.  I was fine either way; it doesn't matter that much to me.

[Northern Lion]

I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own".  For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics".  I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. .  I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.

That's totally fine Stadler, and you're right, to each their own.  My list was primarily a road map to prevent as much tension as possible.  And my list aligns with my core values.  It is a formula that worked out very well for me and many acquaintances in my circles, but that certainly doesn't mean it would be the ideal for everyone.

My list also leans on the "happy wife, happy life" idea.  If it's fairly easy to make my wife happy (ie having a lot in common), then it's more likely that my life will also be happy.  I also understand that you wouldn't want your wife to be a clone of you, but... I would contend that the fact that she's a woman prevents that  .

What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?

I agree with the others.  This could be a big deal breaker also.  In fact it happened to a friend of mine.  He fell madly in love with a woman that lived half way across the county, they got married and then tried to figure out where they were going to live.  Well, they've been married a year and still don't live together.  The way things are going I don't expect the marriage to last much longer.

[Stadler]

I guess I'm different here.  I'm not - insert your word: offended, scared, challenged, whatever - about opinions that are different than me, even ones that seem "core".   

And mature people shouldn't be.  Reasonable people should be willing and able to civilly discuss those areas where we disagree, and possibly even grow closer together from those discussions, even if by the end, there is NO common ground to be found.  And I know you are of the sort that agrees with that sentiment. 

But that said, as relevant to this particular discussion, that doesn't mean it is wise or beneficial to choose a mate that you fundamentally disagree with on whatever those "core" issues are.  It is a different type of relationship, and while there are always things that will come up that will put strain on the relationship, I think it is very unwise to needlessly go into a relationship like that with something built-in that is going to perpetually cause strain.

I don't disagree with that even a little bit; but it goes back to "what works for you", and something that has been unsaid so far, "being honest with oneself".   When I remarried - a surprise, even to me - I was in the middle of therapy (well, still do go every week) and very much in tune with what I was looking for and what I could tolerate.   I have my dealbreakers, but I also (think) I know myself after half a century on this planet.  So I know that while I don't care if she's a Democrat, or likes Keith Urban, if she was someone prone to playing the victim, well, Houston, we have a problem.  I tend to not be bothered much by ideas, but AM bothered by other things like people's attitudes.  So I structure accordingly.  The problem - and the difference I was unconsciously going for - is that "attitude" doesn't translate well to paper.  It's easy to list "I like puppies, Squeeze, and chicken pot pies (the food, not our friend here, though maybe her too)", but that doesn't get to the core of a person.   

I thinking of two people in my life now that thought "Oh, we love hockey/good food/travel/whatever" and were over the moon... and now can barely conceal their contempt for each other, because none of those things matter when one of them is, say, home sick and the other is out partying with his friends seemingly without a care in the world.

[Stadler]

When my wife and I started dating, we decided that we had to agree on three things in order for our relationship to work out:

1.  Religion
2.  Politics
3.  Sammy Hagar as the preferred singer in Van Halen


That is absolutely true.   

What is WRONG with you??




   

[Stadler]

I politely disagree with a lot of this (both posts) and defer to something Cram said, which I read as "to each their own".  For me, it's far less about "what religion" or "what politics" than "how do you handle your religion" and "how do you handle your politics".  I don't want to marry a clone of me, no matter how good-looking, smart and erudite that might make them. .  I want a partner that will be their own person, that will have their point of view, that will respectfully and intelligently articulate it, and will likewise respect mine.

That's totally fine Stadler, and you're right, to each their own.  My list was primarily a road map to prevent as much tension as possible.  And my list aligns with my core values.  It is a formula that worked out very well for me and many acquaintances in my circles, but that certainly doesn't mean it would be the ideal for everyone.

My list also leans on the "happy wife, happy life" idea.  If it's fairly easy to make my wife happy (ie having a lot in common), then it's more likely that my life will also be happy.  I also understand that you wouldn't want your wife to be a clone of you, but... I would contend that the fact that she's a woman prevents that  .

I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood:  I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is.  YOU have to be honest with yourself.  If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection.   But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns.  I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store.   LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching.  "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. 

What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?

I agree with the others.  This could be a big deal breaker also.  In fact it happened to a friend of mine.  He fell madly in love with a woman that lived half way across the county, they got married and then tried to figure out where they were going to live.  Well, they've been married a year and still don't live together.  The way things are going I don't expect the marriage to last much longer.

If I had my way, I'd move to Philadelphia this afternoon.  Instead I'm in a shitty (not kidding, it sucks here) blue collar backwater, the last exit before you leave this miserable state (not kidding, it sucks here) for good, because my wife is from here, our grandson lives here, and our son (well, my stepson) is on the spectrum and gets comfort from being here (it's also near his dad).   Until this question, I didn't give it a moments thought.  I make my days as good as they can be, and don't waste a second on what my address is. 

[H2]

What do you guys think about finding agreement over where you will live? If you found someone that was otherwise perfect for you, but they wanted to live in X, and you didn't, is that a reasonable deal-breaker? Or would you be throwing away something more valuable for something less valuable? If you wanted to grow into your career and this required moving away, would it be stupid to walk away from a person who was perfect for you?

I agree with the others.  This could be a big deal breaker also.  In fact it happened to a friend of mine.  He fell madly in love with a woman that lived half way across the county, they got married and then tried to figure out where they were going to live.  Well, they've been married a year and still don't live together.  The way things are going I don't expect the marriage to last much longer.

If I had my way, I'd move to Philadelphia this afternoon.  Instead I'm in a shitty (not kidding, it sucks here) blue collar backwater, the last exit before you leave this miserable state (not kidding, it sucks here) for good, because my wife is from here, our grandson lives here, and our son (well, my stepson) is on the spectrum and gets comfort from being here (it's also near his dad).   Until this question, I didn't give it a moments thought.  I make my days as good as they can be, and don't waste a second on what my address is.

Gosh, you're making it sound like it DOES matter quite a lot. I fear living in the midwest forever. I hate it here  . But a lot of girls here call this place home and can't imagine leaving. So...sayonara sister, I guess?

[Northern Lion]

I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood:  I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is.  YOU have to be honest with yourself.  If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection.   But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns.  I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store.   LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching.  "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. 

No worries Stadler, it's good healthy discussion.  Of course there's no way to remove all sources of potential relationship destroying tension.  My list only tries to reduce that potential.  But yeah, there are plenty that check those boxes and still don't make it.  I do know a few myself, but I know a lot more that have made it.  I also agree that you can make that relationships "needs" list too long and too detailed.  I don't think mine was too long, but someone else might.

In the end, it worked out really well for me.  But no matter what boxes are checked, marriage still takes a lot of work to make it successful.  Even the most compatable of couples can still find themselves dangling at the end of divorce papers if they aren't always vigilant.

Also, you've experienced divorce.  That gives you a perspective I don't have.

[Phoenix87x]

Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?

In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and its super obvious that something is wrong. 

[lordxizor]

Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?

In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and hard to keep it inside.

Sometimes. Not in any great detail because it would usually involve giving more background info that it's worth taking the time to do. There are definitely occasionally stories that just can't not be shared.

[jingle.boy]

Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?

In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and hard to keep it inside.

Sometimes. Not in any great detail because it would usually involve giving more background info that it's worth taking the time to do. There are definitely occasionally stories that just can't not be shared.

Exactly this.  The context of a lot of things that go on with my work aren't things that would make sense to mrs.jingle - and to explain them is not worth it (for either of us).

Frankly, I talk more about the discussions that happen here than with work.

[Northern Lion]

Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?

In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and its super obvious that something is wrong.

That's a super good question.  I don't, unless it's just an occassional passing comment as part of a larger conversation.  But I understand the "bad day" vibe that can happen sometimes.

This is what I do.  I generally walk to work so I created a path for myself to get myself mentally prepared.  When I walk to work I take a route that brings me by all the stores, shoping and other business in the community I live in.  This helps me mentally prepare to go to work every day.

Then on my way home, I take a different route through the neighborhoods.  This helps me separate myself from the work day I had and prepare mentally to go home to my family.

I can't say I am always successful in preventing baggage from coming home with me but it works pretty well.

However, sometimes you just have an extra bad day, and you need to talk to someone.  IMHO that's part of the reason to have a significant other, to have someone to talk to and to console each other when times are rough.

As long as your bad days aren't a common occurance, I don't see a problem talking it out when you get home.  If it is a common occurance, it might be worth considering finding a new job if that's an option that is available to you.  Having a lot of bad days is no way to live life if you can help it IMHO.

[Stadler]

I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood:  I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is.  YOU have to be honest with yourself.  If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection.   But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns.  I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store.   LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching.  "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. 

No worries Stadler, it's good healthy discussion.  Of course there's no way to remove all sources of potential relationship destroying tension.  My list only tries to reduce that potential.  But yeah, there are plenty that check those boxes and still don't make it.  I do know a few myself, but I know a lot more that have made it.  I also agree that you can make that relationships "needs" list too long and too detailed.  I don't think mine was too long, but someone else might.

In the end, it worked out really well for me.  But no matter what boxes are checked, marriage still takes a lot of work to make it successful.  Even the most compatable of couples can still find themselves dangling at the end of divorce papers if they aren't always vigilant.

Also, you've experienced divorce.  That gives you a perspective I don't have.

I'm sorry, there's no way to say this without sounding more dickish than I mean to, but hopefully the other divorcees can back me up on this.    Until you've gone through it... for me, even though it was, in hindsight, a good thing for me and my kid, and I wouldn't change a thing (other than having gone through it sooner!), it was still, in the moment, the hardest thing I've ever done, by far (and I've done some shit).  Having said that, the bold was me and my ex-wife.  On paper, it was perfect.  Same politics, same religion, we both liked to boat and have a couple drinks, we enjoyed concerts, she was ex-military (I wasn't but I'm from a military family), right on down the line.   But it didn't work, and it wasn't ever really going to work, I realized after a time.  We're actually on good terms now, as we have both grown up a bit and both got honest with ourselves and (to an extent, let's not get crazy here; she's still got deep issues to be resolved) each other. 

And before certain people jump on me, I am well aware that I am not the paradigm for the world. I don't offer this as gospel or as rules, or to suggest that my way is the only way.   I offer it as only one example out of many, and one empirical data point that just because the "likes" line up, it's no guarantee.   

[Podaar]

Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. 

[Orbert]

I was just thinking the same thing.  "Look what I hath wrought!"

[cramx3]

Frankly, I talk more about the discussions that happen here than with work.

  and does that get us back to what Orbert started this thread except roles reversed?

[Stadler]

Do you guys ever discuss work related issues with your significant other?

In the past I was guilty of sharing way too much about the negative side of my day, so now I try not to bring my work home with me, but sometimes things happen that are pretty rough and hard to keep it inside.

Sometimes. Not in any great detail because it would usually involve giving more background info that it's worth taking the time to do. There are definitely occasionally stories that just can't not be shared.

Exactly this.  The context of a lot of things that go on with my work aren't things that would make sense to mrs.jingle - and to explain them is not worth it (for either of us).

Frankly, I talk more about the discussions that happen here than with work.

I do both.  I don't go into the details with work, but I do get enough across so she knows if there are stressors at work, or if there is travel coming up.   

I also talk about here a fair amount.   I refer a lot to "my friend in [insert geography]".  Hahaha. 

[hefdaddy42]

I refer a lot to "my friend in [insert geography]".  Hahaha.

*blushes*

[Northern Lion]

I'm sorry to seem like I'm still arguing this - I'm not at all - but just making sure I'm understood:  I'm saying that it's faulty to assume that this is where the tension is.  YOU have to be honest with yourself.  If you're one of those people that are "Democrat" or "Jewish" and just are stuck on the idea that anyone who isn't is "stupid/Godless/lesser/whatever", then make it an issue in your selection.   But I just see too many people that made their decision based on that kind of thing, then ended up ten years later realizing that was the least of their concerns.  I've written about this before in the "Lonely Hearts" thread; for someone like me, who's sort of an amateur psychologist, being 45 and in the dating scene was like a trip to the toy store.   LITERALLY 100's of women with deeply detailed profiles about all the things they liked and disliked, and yet... still looking, still searching.  "Democrat Dave Matthews Band fans over 6'0"" is NOT a limiting category. 

No worries Stadler, it's good healthy discussion.  Of course there's no way to remove all sources of potential relationship destroying tension.  My list only tries to reduce that potential.  But yeah, there are plenty that check those boxes and still don't make it.  I do know a few myself, but I know a lot more that have made it.  I also agree that you can make that relationships "needs" list too long and too detailed.  I don't think mine was too long, but someone else might.

In the end, it worked out really well for me.  But no matter what boxes are checked, marriage still takes a lot of work to make it successful.  Even the most compatable of couples can still find themselves dangling at the end of divorce papers if they aren't always vigilant.

Also, you've experienced divorce.  That gives you a perspective I don't have.

I'm sorry, there's no way to say this without sounding more dickish than I mean to, but hopefully the other divorcees can back me up on this.    Until you've gone through it... for me, even though it was, in hindsight, a good thing for me and my kid, and I wouldn't change a thing (other than having gone through it sooner!), it was still, in the moment, the hardest thing I've ever done, by far (and I've done some shit).  Having said that, the bold was me and my ex-wife.  On paper, it was perfect.  Same politics, same religion, we both liked to boat and have a couple drinks, we enjoyed concerts, she was ex-military (I wasn't but I'm from a military family), right on down the line.   But it didn't work, and it wasn't ever really going to work, I realized after a time.  We're actually on good terms now, as we have both grown up a bit and both got honest with ourselves and (to an extent, let's not get crazy here; she's still got deep issues to be resolved) each other. 

And before certain people jump on me, I am well aware that I am not the paradigm for the world. I don't offer this as gospel or as rules, or to suggest that my way is the only way.   I offer it as only one example out of many, and one empirical data point that just because the "likes" line up, it's no guarantee.

Stadler, maybe I'm missing something here, but it looks to me like we agree?

Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. 

 

[bosk1]

Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. 

Right?

[Stadler]

Gotta love DTF. Orbert makes a autobiographical, humorous post about the occasionally frustrating issues of communication with a spouse...and look what it turns into. Now I know what bosk1 was talking about with his marriage/parenting thread. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but the idea that a conversation has to stick exclusively to the preliminary boundaries is... weird.  Ideas go where ideas go.   

[lordxizor]

Here's my amusing wife story to bring things back to the original topic.

My wife gets migraines, largely due to tight muscles in her shoulders and neck. We were at the science museum on Sunday with our kids and she brought in her purse. About an hour in she says "Ugh... this purse is going to give me a migraine." since she wears it on one shoulder and it throws her muscles off over time.

Me: "Why did you bring it in if you know it gives you migraines to carry it for too long?"

Her: "I wanted to bring in a water bottle."

Me: "Couldn't you have just carried the water bottle or used the drinking fountain?"

Her: "I also wanted my wallet"

Me: "Why?"

Her: "In case I needed my ID." (We were getting a membership and she thought we might need it, fair enough)

Me: "Couldn't you just have put your ID in your pocket?"

Her: ...

Me: "Give your purse to me, I'll carry it for you." I didn't want her getting a migraine, I had some... uh... plans... for later. (Success by the way )

Seriously... think ahead a little bit.

[Dublagent66]

Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? 

[Northern Lion]

Me: "Give your purse to me, I'll carry it for you." I didn't want her getting a migraine, I had some... uh... plans... for later. (Success by the way )

Seriously... think ahead a little bit.

[lordxizor]

Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? 

That works for a while, but eventually it gets to be too much. I don't know. None of it makes any sense to me.

[pg1067]

Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? 

Better question:  why carry a purse that's so heavy and/or uncomfortable that it gives her migraines?

[hefdaddy42]

Why doesn't she just switch shoulders to equalize everything? 

Better question:  why carry a purse that's so heavy and/or uncomfortable that it gives her migraines?

Better question: why carry a purse at all?

Don't bother with that one.  I'm married too.

[Stadler]

I swear, my wife has one of those bags like Hermione has in Harry Potter.  Tents, shovels, complete dinner settings....

[TAC]

The Lovely Mrs TAC doesn't carry a big bag, but if she doesn't want to carry her purse, then I'll just put her ID in my wallet.

[lordxizor]

My wife usually doesn't carry a big purse or if she does it's usually not very heavy. Not sure why she felt the need on Sunday.

Better question: why carry a purse at all?

Because if she didn't, she wouldn't be able to carry around the 28 half used gift cards, 17 obsolete membership cards, and various small bills stuck into random nooks and crannies.

In fairness, she managed to save us $21 on the museum membership because she's a homeschool teacher and randomly had a Half Price Book teacher card that they accepted as proof.

[Northern Lion]

I found a solution to this purse issue early on in my marriage.  A few years after my wife and I got married, I had known her long enough to know that what ever sized bag she happened to be carrying, she would fill it up.

So once I could afford it, I bought her a really nice and SMALL leather purse.  I made sure I got one that looked great and still had plenty of pockets.  She has used that purse ever since.  She never complains about it being too heavy or that she can't find anything in it.

I share this mostly to be tongue and cheek.  She knows why I bought her a small purse and slyly kids me about it now and then.  But, she's never asked for another purse. Win win as far as I'm concerned.

[Kwyjibo]

I swear, my wife has one of those bags like Hermione has in Harry Potter.  Tents, shovels, complete dinner settings....

I think every woman's bag has a pocket-sized black hole in there or a door to another dimension or something. You can put more than twice the stuff in there than what would normaly fit and it still has room for more stuff. And you can at least search for an hour for your keys in there, before you realize you left them at home.