Men are from Mars, Women I have no f*$%ing idea

[Orbert]

Me:  So this thing you wanted to go to, it's at 4:00, right?  What time do we need to leave?

She:  Don't forget, we have to stop and <something boring and unimportant> first.

Me:  Okay, so how long will that take?  What time do we need to leave?

She:  I told you, it will take a little longer.  We haven't <done the boring and unimportant thing> in a while.

Me:  Right.  So what time do we need to leave?

She:  I've already told you.  We have to leave early.

Me:  Earlier than what?  What time do we need to leave?

She:  We have to leave earlier because we have to stop and <do boring shit> on the way!  What don't you understand about that?!

Me:  I understand that we have to stop on the way.  I don't know where we're going, or how long it will take to get there, so I'm asking you.  What time do we need to leave?

She:  How should I know?  You're going to be driving.

Me:  Right.  So what time do we need to leave?

She:  (actually screams out loud in frustration)  I told you!  We have to be there by 4:00!  We have to stop and <blah> on the way there!  God!!  We have to leave in time to do that and get there by 4:00, obviously!

----------

Fuck me running.  No, seriously, take a fucking Louisville Slugger and shove it up my ass, I'm sure it would be less painful.  Is it too hard to just fucking answer a question?  You want to go somewhere, cool.  Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go.  Sure, I'll drive.  That's not the point.  It's your project.  Put some fucking thought into it.

[TAC]

Right. I would simply ask my wife, "What time would you like me to report to the car?"

[Adami]

I say just throw out a random time and then adjust based on her reaction.

"Cool, I'll be ready to leave by 3"
"3?!?!??"
"....2?"

[TAC]

Either that or I would just have my shoes on and wait for her to make the call.

[Adami]

Better idea. Get ready quickly, tell her you'll be in the car. Just go to the car, listen to music, relax til she gets there.

[jingle.boy]

Better idea. Get ready quickly, tell her you'll be in the car. Just go to the car, listen to music, relax til she gets there.

Brilliant.  Take a cup of coffee with you Bob, you might be there a while.

[Dublagent66]

Thank god I’ve successfully avoided marriage just like women successfully avoid answering any direct question. 

[King Postwhore]

This hurts like a dagger in my side to the core.

Twist that knife. 

[MirrorMask]

You want to go somewhere, cool.  Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go.

Obvious spoiler: she didn't.

Point this out to her.

"So, you want to go there, but you didn't bother to check the time it would take nor to ask me to please waste what would amount to 30 seconds to check it out on Google Maps?"

[jingle.boy]

That won’t end well.

[Chino]

I don't understand why time is so difficult for some people. I'm more punctual than most, almost to the point where it's annoying, but so many of my friends put in zero effort when it comes to being somewhere when we need to. It drives me nuts.

The worst is when I'm expecting people over. I like to do a deeper clean depending on who's coming. I hate when we plan on a time and they show up an hour+ late. I could have cleaned at a calmer pace and/or not rushed anything revolving around the food. If you want to show up at 7 instead of 6, just tell me.

[Podaar]

Wow, Orbert, I've been on the edge of that conversation but never tipped over into the abyss. So far, Mrs. P has been willing to logic out with me how long it will take to drive to said event, and then work back from arrival time. At least if it's her event. If it's an event that I planned or is with my family or friends, I better damn well know when she needs to be ready to leave. 

[Stadler]

Obviously "boring and unimportant shit" is sex, right? 

No, seriously, it depends on the "boring unimportant shit".  I would ask direct questions.  Where is the "thing"?  Where is the "boring unimportant shit"?   Then pick a time and tell her.

I have this problem with my wife, too.  I love her, but she gets into these what I call mental ruts on occasion.  I'll be asking questions and she'll be sort of stuck in her answer, and I have to sort of reframe the conversation.  That, and pronouns; she'll be all like "So, I was talking to her and she said he had a <thing> but he wasn't sure that they were going to respond."  And I'm like "Uh, slow down and insert some proper names here..." 

[TAC]

Yeah sometimes it's like playing Mad Libs!

[Orbert]

Wow, Orbert, I've been on the edge of that conversation but never tipped over into the abyss. So far, Mrs. P has been willing to logic out with me how long it will take to drive to said event, and then work back from arrival time. At least if it's her event. If it's an event that I planned or is with my family or friends, I better damn well know when she needs to be ready to leave. 

That's what it eventually got to.  Eventually.

----------

Me:  Where exactly is this thing we're going to?

She:  It's right by the Woodman's on Half Day Road.

Me:  Okay, so 15 minutes away?

She:  You said 20.

Me:  I did?  When?

She:  Last time we went to Woodman's, you said to allow 20 minutes.  But it only took us 15.

Me:  Okay, so 15 minutes.

She:  Yes.

Me:  But we have to stop at <boring place> first, right?

She:  I told you that already!

Me:  Right.  Sorry.  So... how long do you think that will take?

She:  I don't know... maybe ten minutes.

Me:  So if we leave by 3:30, we should have time to stop and still get there on time?

She:  Maybe 3:20?  Just in case.

Me:  Okay.  I will be ready to leave by 3:20.


Epilogue:  She was ready about 3:30, because she remembered me saying 3:30, and forgot that she'd suggested 3:20.

You want to go somewhere, cool.  Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go.

Obvious spoiler: she didn't.

Point this out to her.

That won’t end well.

Correct.  This is from multiple past instances, which I have learned to (sometimes) avoid.  We have to work through the logistics every time, one step at a time.  This is something that most adults are capable of doing, but somehow, this is my "job", even if I have none of the variables and have to extract every one of them from her, one at a time.

But... at least I know this, and ask a few hours in advance, in case the actual process takes a few hours.


I honestly don't remember what the boring thing was now.  We had to stop at some store for something, and I just threw it in there for flavor, as it was another variable, and apparently two variables is one too many for some people.

[MoraWintersoul]

I don't understand why time is so difficult for some people. I'm more punctual than most, almost to the point where it's annoying, but so many of my friends put in zero effort when it comes to being somewhere when we need to. It drives me nuts.

The worst is when I'm expecting people over. I like to do a deeper clean depending on who's coming. I hate when we plan on a time and they show up an hour+ late. I could have cleaned at a calmer pace and/or not rushed anything revolving around the food. If you want to show up at 7 instead of 6, just tell me.

I have a lot of friends who are like this. Most people have some kinda time problem. Honestly I wish that was my time problem, and not "lets larger units of time pass by untll it's three years later and I have done nothing with my life but I sure made all my appointments though!"

[The Walrus]

One friend who I recently stopped hanging out with (finally) is one of those guys. "Hey man, I'm free around 6:30 for like an hour if you want to swing by and chill." Fast forward to 7:30 "omw" - then he's over way past the time I'm comfortable hanging out. Finally got sick of it (among other things).

As for the marriage arguments... so glad I'm not married 

[Harmony]

2 things.  I'll drive and that saves you the trouble of having to figure out the logistics.  TAC gets it.  "What time should I be in the car?"

Second, when my spouse thinks something I want or need to do is "unimportant and boring" and their attitude conveys this, then I'm less likely to care about answering their questions the way they'd prefer. 

[Northern Lion]

Orbert, I feel for you man.  Although my wife and I don't ever have situations like this, my two teenage daughters do.

When these situations arise in my home, I try the supportive husband, doting father route:  I leave the room muttering with my hands in the air and let my wife handle it from there

[H2]

Holy Hannah, Orbert, I'm getting frustrated just reading this. 

[Orbert]

2 things.  I'll drive and that saves you the trouble of having to figure out the logistics.  TAC gets it.  "What time should I be in the car?"

But that's exactly what I'm asking.  "What time do we need to leave?" = "What time should I be in the car?"

Second, when my spouse thinks something I want or need to do is "unimportant and boring" and their attitude conveys this, then I'm less likely to care about answering their questions the way they'd prefer. 

The stop at the store was unimportant to the story, so I parenthesized it.  I didn't see the point of elaborating on it, just as I avoided specifying what we were doing in the first place.  I didn't think it was relevant to the main point, which is that only one of us knows where we have to be, and how long it will take to get there, including all other necessary stops, and that person was not me, yet somehow I was tasked with figuring it out.  Oddly enough, the easiest way to "figure it out" is to ask the person who actually knows.  And that person seemed determined not to share the information.

[Harmony]

Gotcha.  I thought the 'unimportant and boring thing' was something she wanted to do but you didn't.  I was laughing at that because married people (outside of the honeymoon phase) tend to understand that that's what marriage actually is 98% of the time and I would've bet cold hard cash, she could rattle off a list of things that fell into that category she'd do for you.   

Seriously though, I don't think this is a man vs. woman issue.   I know lots of disorganized people, male and female, who can't manage time or appointments very well.  This is their baseline of "normal".  Some of these people carry diagnosis of ADD and some have the symptoms but not the diagnosis.  Is this the first time you've noticed that she has difficulty with time management or organizational skills?  Is it possible she's under an unusual amount of stress which can make anyone distracted enough to be unable to problem solve as well as she normally does?  Have you asked her - away from the situation at hand - if she's ok and that you've noticed she's having a hard time with concentration (or stress or brain fog or whatever)?  That you are looking for a way to improve your communication with her?

Her answer may surprise you if you approach it from a caring attitude and not a judgmental and WTF? attitude.  And no judgment here toward you.  My middle name is WTF.     With me it isn't just an attitude, it's a way of life.  And I'm only kidding a tiny bit!

And for the record, it's not an excuse and you can look it up, but hormones especially in relation to pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause/menopause can definitely cause brain fog for a whole variety of reasons.  Especially if sleep disruption is a factor.

[TAC]

Pretty sure Orbert isn't pregnant.

[ReaperKK]

That won’t end well.

No, no it won't

[Lonk]

Seriously though, I don't think this is a man vs. woman issue.   I know lots of disorganized people, male and female, who can't manage time or appointments very well.

This. I don’t have this issue with my partner since she usually takes care of all the details when she’s planning something (how to get there, travel time, easiest route, etc) but I do have this problem with people I work with. Every so often I have to drive them somewhere and when I ask about time and where the place is, the usual response I get is “I don’t know, the place is called (random name)”.

I don’t make a huge deal out of it because I just put it on google map and get an estimate of time and distance, but it would be nice for them to have that information ready every so often.

[Orbert]

I guess my frustration was that I was asking a question, and getting a response that provided information, but did not actually answer the question.  I hate that.  Just answer the fucking question.  It's like when you ask a simple Yes or No question, and get an essay for a response that doesn't even answer the question.

Me: Did you pick up milk?

She: I stopped at the store.  We needed bread.

Me: So did you pick up milk?

She: I just told you, I stopped at the store!

Me: Right.  So did you pick up milk?

She: Why don't you look in the fucking fridge!

Seriously, is it that hard to just say Yes or No?


I'm not going to wait in the car all day, and I have other things to do today, so I would like to know when I have to be ready to go.  It's really that simple.  Telling me the name of the place we're going doesn't tell me where it is or how long it will take to get there.  Telling me that we have to leave a little early because we have another stop to make is only useful once we know the baseline travel time, and "a little early" is still relative.

[jammindude]

I feel your pain en masse.   My SON does this.   So I have this coming from multiple angles.   I start to wonder if people actually speak English.   

I don't remember the exact conversation, but I was trying to ask my son where his cell phone was and he gave me about 15 different answers for that exact question without ever telling me where his cell phone was and I was practically screaming at him by the end of it.   

[wolfking]

Me:  So this thing you wanted to go to, it's at 4:00, right?  What time do we need to leave?

She:  Don't forget, we have to stop and <something boring and unimportant> first.

Me:  Okay, so how long will that take?  What time do we need to leave?

She:  I told you, it will take a little longer.  We haven't <done the boring and unimportant thing> in a while.

Me:  Right.  So what time do we need to leave?

She:  I've already told you.  We have to leave early.

Me:  Earlier than what?  What time do we need to leave?

She:  We have to leave earlier because we have to stop and <do boring shit> on the way!  What don't you understand about that?!

Me:  I understand that we have to stop on the way.  I don't know where we're going, or how long it will take to get there, so I'm asking you.  What time do we need to leave?

She:  How should I know?  You're going to be driving.

Me:  Right.  So what time do we need to leave?

She:  (actually screams out loud in frustration)  I told you!  We have to be there by 4:00!  We have to stop and <blah> on the way there!  God!!  We have to leave in time to do that and get there by 4:00, obviously!

----------

Fuck me running.  No, seriously, take a fucking Louisville Slugger and shove it up my ass, I'm sure it would be less painful.  Is it too hard to just fucking answer a question?  You want to go somewhere, cool.  Presumably you've figured out the logistics, because I haven't, because I'm not the one who wants to go.  Sure, I'll drive.  That's not the point.  It's your project.  Put some fucking thought into it.

Sounds about right.  In this situation, I've learnt to put a time forward randomly to get a feel if I'm on the case.  I would have said "So, what, we'll leave about 2 then is that enough time?"  9 times out of 10 though it would still be wrong and get a smartassed closed response. haha.

[Orbert]

I won't play that game, which someone suggested upthread.  "So we should leave around 3:00?  3:30?"  Why the fuck should I guess, when the person who wanted to do this in the first place, and therefore had the responsibility to do the legwork involved, could just tell me.  And if they want to do this, but don't want to bother figuring out the logistics, then they apparently don't want to do it very badly.

[Cool Chris]

I have made it a habit if asking "when do we need to leave?" straightaway, and will generally get the appropriate answer.

Of course, having an 8 year old and a 2 year old, we will leave when the kids are damn good and ready and the car is loaded up, so anywhere between 15-30 minutes after we had intended to, depending on how much stuff we have to bring.

[Stadler]

I guess my frustration was that I was asking a question, and getting a response that provided information, but did not actually answer the question.  I hate that.  Just answer the fucking question.  It's like when you ask a simple Yes or No question, and get an essay for a response that doesn't even answer the question.

Me: Did you pick up milk?

She: I stopped at the store.  We needed bread.

Me: So did you pick up milk?

She: I just told you, I stopped at the store!

Me: Right.  So did you pick up milk?

She: Why don't you look in the fucking fridge!

Seriously, is it that hard to just say Yes or No?


I'm not going to wait in the car all day, and I have other things to do today, so I would like to know when I have to be ready to go.  It's really that simple.  Telling me the name of the place we're going doesn't tell me where it is or how long it will take to get there.  Telling me that we have to leave a little early because we have another stop to make is only useful once we know the baseline travel time, and "a little early" is still relative.

No offense,  but this is something different than the time thing if you ask me (how do I know, though, since you are there and I'm not).  One of my kids is like this (as is my wife's ex); I don't understand that notion of being difficult for the sake of being difficult.  I call it the "reality show mentality". It's not weakness to be hospitable or accommodating (unless, like anything else, it's taken to an extreme).   This sort of "default beligerance" that is seemingly becoming so prevalent is as baffling to me as the time thing.  My wife's ex:  you can ask him his name and he'll have some snotty reason why YOU'RE stupid for asking him.  F*** you, bro, the world doesn't revolved around you (Sorry, I got off track there!)

To Orbert, I don't know if I would have said it outloud or not - depends on the rest of the conversation - but I would haev been thinking "of course I could have checked the fridge; that's what roommates do.  I actually just wanted to talk with my wife, FFS." 

[jingle.boy]

Her:  Did you pickup milk?
Me: Yes

End of conversation, on to the next thing.

[H2]

As a single guy, I always leave these threads feeling paranoid about marriage and family. I have two questions:

1. Is it worth it?
2. If so, when is it worth it?

I ask the second question because I think that a lot of people in my age group just think that "It's worth it" and go out and make rash decisions without questioning whether it is worth it.

[Orbert]

I've struggled with the question "Is it worth it?" for years.  There are definite plusses and minuses.  There's no such thing as a perfect marriage; every single one is a compromise.  Therefore the only person who can answer that question is you.

I'm a practical guy.  Scientific minded, logical thinking, all those horrible traits that come standard equipment with Asians.  If the plusses outweigh the minuses, it's worth it.  You try to maximize the ratio by "choosing" someone with whom you are compatible, therefore minimizing the the negatives while hopefully accentuating and taking advantage of the positives.  But a marriage is two people, and there will be disagreements.  It comes down to how you handle them.  Also, unless you're a real prize and literally have multiple babes after you, you don't get to choose, which is why I put that in quotes.  You play the game, live your life, and you end up with someone.  Again, there are things you can do to possibly improve the odds of ending up with the "right" person, but there are no guarantees.  Life is adventure.

[Stadler]

As a single guy, I always leave these threads feeling paranoid about marriage and family. I have two questions:

1. Is it worth it?
2. If so, when is it worth it?

I ask the second question because I think that a lot of people in my age group just think that "It's worth it" and go out and make rash decisions without questioning whether it is worth it.

Orbert has it, I think, 100% correct, but to the point of "I always leave these threads feeling paranoid about marriage and family", it's also relevant to look bigger picture.  If "monthly gasoline expenditures" are your only criteria, then owning a car is a shitty idea.    Whether you do or not, and if you do, what kind, make, model and year, are all questions only you can answer.   For me, I had the best of all worlds of sorts; I went through a divorce when a) I was young enough, b) my kid was old enough, and c) my job was good enough, that I could reasonably see what the landscape might be like if I went at life alone.   Wasn't for me.   For all the mind games we might be discussing here, we've not at all talked about the 100 things that go on between a husband and wife that DO NOT need to be discussed.   My wife can, for example, stop and get food on the way home, and she's got a good idea of what I will likely say "WOW, that was really kind of you to think about me" to.   My wife, knows, for example, that I really only have one ritual in the morning - coffee - and there are mornings I come downstairs and the coffee is brewing and I think "she can use all the goddamn pronouns she wants to".    My wife also understands why I need to drive an hour with album in hand to see Jon Anderson (who?) in a 500 seat theater, or get up on Sunday morning to call the box office to get my Squeeze ticket upgraded to front row (long story), or rip those Kiss DVDs to my iPod.

Throw in a little nookie every coupl'a weeks that doesn't require a night on the town, a fancy dinner, and agonizing about whether you're going to have to call the next day or whether this is going to mean she's going to be all up in your grill if she sees you with that other woman at the other bar*, and I can tell you, it's not ALL hell on earth.


(*All, of course, meant for humorous effect.)