2020 NFL Thread v. Tom Brady aging better than Mila Kunis

[hunnus2000]

Rugby is second only to hockey as the toughest sport out there. Those guys are a bunch of bad-asses! 

[MusicMaker]

What I didn't see coming was Tannehill becoming a decent NFL QB.

I fully understand the point you're making, and I think the point is wholly valid.  But I have to point out that since joining the Titans, Tannehill has in actuality been way better than "decent."  Let's play a round of  "guess the quarterback":


Quarterback A, last 14 starts:
11-3 record, 3,674 pass yards, 28/6 TD/INT, 102.3 rating

Quarterback B, last 14 starts:
11-3 record, 3,602 pass yards, 31/6 TD/INT, 116.7 rating

I'll give you a hint...  one of them is Ryan Tannehill, and the other is 2018 MVP Patrick Mahomes.  And their head-to-head record during that time is also 1-1, which is fun. 




(For what it's worth, QB A is Mahomes and QB B is Tannehill.)

Let's play another round...

Quarterback C, last 17 starts:
13-4 record, 36/7 TD/INT

Quarterback D, last 17 starts:
15-2 record, 36/8 TD/INT

One of these quarterbacks won the 2019 MVP award in a runaway vote.  The other quarterback crushed said MVP on the road in a divisional playoff game en route to the AFC championship game.



(QB C is Ryan Tannehill, QB D is Lamar Jackson)

Now, I'm not being a homer here and demanding that everyone proclaim Tannehill as the GOAT or this season's MVP or anything like that.  But what I *AM* saying is that he is way, way, WAY better than "decent."  His performance has literally stood neck and neck with both Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson since joining the Titans organization, and has played a full season's (and postseason's) worth of games.  He is playing at an elite level, and this is no longer over a small sample size.  I'm not generally a fan/follower of Colin Cowherd, but he did a great piece this past week on swallowing his pride and acknowledging that his first impressions of Tannehill and the Titans (vs Mahomes/Chiefs and Jackson/Ravens) have been totally wrong.  These 3 players and teams have been incredibly comparable for about a year now.


In other Titans news, Derrick Henry is a beast who does things I've never seen any football player do before.  I can't decide what's better- when he chucked Josh Norman aside horizontally this past week or his spinning Earl Thomas a full 180-degrees so that he became his own personal blocker in last year's divisional playoff.  I'll go with the latter, because it was the playoffs but even moreso because of the trash talk Thomas made prior to the game about the non-issue (ha!) of handling Henry.  Either way, I've never seen ANYONE manhandle would-be tacklers like this before.

I'm also very eager to see if the Titans can sustain the level of play they showed vs Buffalo into this next week and beyond.  That Tuesday night COVID-impacted game had all kinds of special circumstances and "us against the world" setup... Can the Titans bring the same intensity to the rest of the schedule, especially when they're not "sneaking up" on everyone anymore?  As a long-time Oilers/Titans fan, I've seen too many times where the Titans win all the games they're not supposed to, but also throw away the ones they're supposed to win handily.  The real champions play excellent football consistently.

[cramx3]

I have no idea why the Redskins went for 2 to win the game instead of likely play for OT with 30 seconds left. Like, Daniel Jones has not shown any ability to win a game and the Redskins had worn down the Giants d to a point where if they won the coin toss, they'd likely win. Whatever, ill take my teams first win and back in the NFC east race 

[mike099]

Next Sunday’s showdown will be the Steelers at the Titans, both undefeated.  Not sure how many fans will be allowed for the game. 

[El Barto]

I have no idea why the Redskins went for 2 to win the game instead of likely play for OT with 30 seconds left. Like, Daniel Jones has not shown any ability to win a game and the Redskins had worn down the Giants d to a point where if they won the coin toss, they'd likely win. Whatever, ill take my teams first win and back in the NFC east race 

I think you just made the case for taking it to OT. If NYG can't move the ball, and WAS has worn down the D, then you're better off getting a full series than a toss-up 2PC.

[Cool Chris]

I have no idea why the Redskins went for 2 to win the game instead of likely play for OT with 30 seconds left. Like, Daniel Jones has not shown any ability to win a game and the Redskins had worn down the Giants d to a point where if they won the coin toss, they'd likely win. Whatever, ill take my teams first win and back in the NFC east race 

Uh... what team?

[King Postwhore]

Riverboat Ron did it again.

[pg1067]

Can we please teach Terry Bradshaw the proper pronunciation of the team from Jacksonville?

[King Postwhore]

Damn. Now I will notice it. Lol

[cramx3]

I have no idea why the Redskins went for 2 to win the game instead of likely play for OT with 30 seconds left. Like, Daniel Jones has not shown any ability to win a game and the Redskins had worn down the Giants d to a point where if they won the coin toss, they'd likely win. Whatever, ill take my teams first win and back in the NFC east race 

I think you just made the case for taking it to OT. If NYG can't move the ball, and WAS has worn down the D, then you're better off getting a full series than a toss-up 2PC.

Yea, that was my point.  I almost thought for sure when they scored, they would win in OT at that point and was shocked they went for two.  As a Giants fan, I am obviously happy how it turned out, but that seemed like a bad coaching call considering the circumstances.  NYG had been able to move the ball, so it's not that, it's more that Daniel Jones is a TO machine so even if they lost the coin toss, I'd have no faith on him doing a game winning drive.  And if they won the toss, well, they'd continue to wear down and likely score on the tired D.  Seemed like an easy decision, instead they went for it all in a gamble.

[T-ski]

The Rodgers/Brady matchup never materialized.  Packers always seem to sleepwalk their games after the bye week.

[El Barto]

I have no idea why the Redskins went for 2 to win the game instead of likely play for OT with 30 seconds left. Like, Daniel Jones has not shown any ability to win a game and the Redskins had worn down the Giants d to a point where if they won the coin toss, they'd likely win. Whatever, ill take my teams first win and back in the NFC east race 

I think you just made the case for taking it to OT. If NYG can't move the ball, and WAS has worn down the D, then you're better off getting a full series than a toss-up 2PC.

Yea, that was my point.  I almost thought for sure when they scored, they would win in OT at that point and was shocked they went for two.  As a Giants fan, I am obviously happy how it turned out, but that seemed like a bad coaching call considering the circumstances.  NYG had been able to move the ball, so it's not that, it's more that Daniel Jones is a TO machine so even if they lost the coin toss, I'd have no faith on him doing a game winning drive.  And if they won the toss, well, they'd continue to wear down and likely score on the tired D.  Seemed like an easy decision, instead they went for it all in a gamble.

My bad. I misread your post. The guy calling the game I was watching rambled on and on and on about how stupid a team was for not going for two in that situation.

[cramx3]

If they got it, I'm sure many would say it was a great call, but given I was watching the whole game and feeling the flow of it, it really was shocking to try that. 

[Dream Team]

Oh so Brady can shake hands after a win? What a tool, and sore loser. No one else pulls that shit.

[Stadler]

Can we please teach Terry Bradshaw the proper pronunciation of the team from Jacksonville?

I loved his throwaway line when commenting on the Browns Steelers game; the camera showed OBJ throwing his helmet or something, and Bradshaw noted the frustration and said "Get used to it, son".   I didn't see the game, but I guess Mayfield was benched.

[Stadler]

What I didn't see coming was Tannehill becoming a decent NFL QB.

I fully understand the point you're making, and I think the point is wholly valid.  But I have to point out that since joining the Titans, Tannehill has in actuality been way better than "decent."  Let's play a round of  "guess the quarterback":


Quarterback A, last 14 starts:
11-3 record, 3,674 pass yards, 28/6 TD/INT, 102.3 rating

Quarterback B, last 14 starts:
11-3 record, 3,602 pass yards, 31/6 TD/INT, 116.7 rating

I'll give you a hint...  one of them is Ryan Tannehill, and the other is 2018 MVP Patrick Mahomes.  And their head-to-head record during that time is also 1-1, which is fun. 




(For what it's worth, QB A is Mahomes and QB B is Tannehill.)

Let's play another round...

Quarterback C, last 17 starts:
13-4 record, 36/7 TD/INT

Quarterback D, last 17 starts:
15-2 record, 36/8 TD/INT

One of these quarterbacks won the 2019 MVP award in a runaway vote.  The other quarterback crushed said MVP on the road in a divisional playoff game en route to the AFC championship game.



(QB C is Ryan Tannehill, QB D is Lamar Jackson)

Now, I'm not being a homer here and demanding that everyone proclaim Tannehill as the GOAT or this season's MVP or anything like that.  But what I *AM* saying is that he is way, way, WAY better than "decent."  His performance has literally stood neck and neck with both Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson since joining the Titans organization, and has played a full season's (and postseason's) worth of games.  He is playing at an elite level, and this is no longer over a small sample size.  I'm not generally a fan/follower of Colin Cowherd, but he did a great piece this past week on swallowing his pride and acknowledging that his first impressions of Tannehill and the Titans (vs Mahomes/Chiefs and Jackson/Ravens) have been totally wrong.  These 3 players and teams have been incredibly comparable for about a year now.


In other Titans news, Derrick Henry is a beast who does things I've never seen any football player do before.  I can't decide what's better- when he chucked Josh Norman aside horizontally this past week or his spinning Earl Thomas a full 180-degrees so that he became his own personal blocker in last year's divisional playoff.  I'll go with the latter, because it was the playoffs but even moreso because of the trash talk Thomas made prior to the game about the non-issue (ha!) of handling Henry.  Either way, I've never seen ANYONE manhandle would-be tacklers like this before.

I'm also very eager to see if the Titans can sustain the level of play they showed vs Buffalo into this next week and beyond.  That Tuesday night COVID-impacted game had all kinds of special circumstances and "us against the world" setup... Can the Titans bring the same intensity to the rest of the schedule, especially when they're not "sneaking up" on everyone anymore?  As a long-time Oilers/Titans fan, I've seen too many times where the Titans win all the games they're not supposed to, but also throw away the ones they're supposed to win handily.  The real champions play excellent football consistently.

But... but... MAHOMES.  You can't bad-mouth him like that.  He's the GOAT!  He's running for President!  His State Farm commercials are hilarious!   Be careful, or his mom will tweet about you!

[emtee]

Yeah, Derrick Henry is otherworldly.

Pack gave up. I've never seen that before. First 5 minutes of that game looked like a Packers romp.

Bears keep chugging along. Nothing fancy, just wins.

[Dream Team]

Yesterday was a big day for Roethlisberger because Elway was always his idol and why he wears #7.

QB Wins Regular Season         Including Playoffs
222 Brady                              252 Brady
186 Manning                          200 Manning
186 Favre                              199 Favre
166 Brees                              174 Brees
149 Roethlisberger                 162 Roethlisberger
148 Elway                             162 Elway
147 Marino                            155 Marino

No one else is within 20 of those guys. Of course Ben has missed over 2 seasons worth of games due to injury which is another 16-24 wins. Manning also lost a bunch of wins to injury. Can't touch the Brady/Belichick combo obviously.

Winning Pct, 50+ starts
775 Brady
713 Montana
702 Manning
689 Wilson
677 Roethlisberger

LOL Cleveland Clowns. Also Cowherd had a fascinating stat on Aaron Rodgers today - he has a losing record in games in which he has trailed at ANY point in the game, even the first 5 minutes. Cowherd basically called him a front-runner, a bailer, and a bunch of other stuff. Wow.

[hunnus2000]

We got a double-header in football today. Considering that I have been working from since March with no plans to go back, I could get real used to this kind of schedule. 

[Stadler]

I'm sort of an Aaron Rogers fan - meaning I like to watch him play - but I can't really figure him out.  There's something about him that keeps me from thinking he's really, truly, one of the greats of all time.  He's with Marino in that category (yes I know I'm in the minority there).  Seem to always have an excuse or a reason why it just fell a little short.  Even if they are legit reasons; I think the real greats of all time found a way to win when there was every reason NOT to. 

[pg1067]

I'm sort of an Aaron Rogers fan - meaning I like to watch him play - but I can't really figure him out.  There's something about him that keeps me from thinking he's really, truly, one of the greats of all time.

Something in the air in Green Bay.  Brett FAH-vray is the biggest fake great of all time.  Winning percentage barely above .500 and the NFL's career leader in interceptions thrown by miles and miles.


Also, RIP Fred Dean.

[hunnus2000]

I'm sort of an Aaron Rogers fan - meaning I like to watch him play - but I can't really figure him out.  There's something about him that keeps me from thinking he's really, truly, one of the greats of all time.  He's with Marino in that category (yes I know I'm in the minority there).  Seem to always have an excuse or a reason why it just fell a little short.  Even if they are legit reasons; I think the real greats of all time found a way to win when there was every reason NOT to.

The Marino comparison is interesting. I used to work with a Pitt alum who was pretty critical of Marino for being an incredibly selfish QB in that he wanted, while at Pitt and Miami, the offense to revolve around him, aka, no running game. We know how Marino's career went and while Rodgers has won a SB, he would benefit from a decent running game and got to more SBs, more titles. Look at Elway, he didn't start winning SBs until he got a running game. I always felt for Marino that he only went to one SB but he brought on himself. I agree, Rodgers won't go down as one of the truly great ones of all time.

[Stadler]

I'm sort of an Aaron Rogers fan - meaning I like to watch him play - but I can't really figure him out.  There's something about him that keeps me from thinking he's really, truly, one of the greats of all time.  He's with Marino in that category (yes I know I'm in the minority there).  Seem to always have an excuse or a reason why it just fell a little short.  Even if they are legit reasons; I think the real greats of all time found a way to win when there was every reason NOT to.

The Marino comparison is interesting. I used to work with a Pitt alum who was pretty critical of Marino for being an incredibly selfish QB in that he wanted, while at Pitt and Miami, the offense to revolve around him, aka, no running game. We know how Marino's career went and while Rodgers has won a SB, he would benefit from a decent running game and got to more SBs, more titles. Look at Elway, he didn't start winning SBs until he got a running game. I always felt for Marino that he only went to one SB but he brought on himself. I agree, Rodgers won't go down as one of the truly great ones of all time.

I'm not a Marino fan.  I know he's got great numbers, but I just have a mental picture of this sweaty red face yelling at one of his receivers for... something, I don't know what.   It seemed less about winning games, however that had to happen, and more about scripting the world to your viewpoint.  That's the very thing that makes Belichick so great; he has no script.  He does what he has to do to beat the other team.  Run?  Okay, we'll run.   Shoot out?  Okay, we'll shoot it out.  Defense?   Okay, we'll shut you down. No, it's not perfect, but the world isn't.  He's got a track record of wins - against teams he had no business beating - that speaks for itself.

EDIT:  That's also why Tom Brady is dead to me.  I kid, of course (I picked them this week and I rooted for him to win) but he's trying to put together something that makes HIM comfortable, and that's only part of it.   It'll be interesting to see when they get a game that can't be won with Gronk on a seven-pattern. 

[MusicMaker]

[Tannehill, Mahomes, Jackson QB stat comparisons]

But... but... MAHOMES.  You can't bad-mouth him like that.  He's the GOAT!  He's running for President!  His State Farm commercials are hilarious!   Be careful, or his mom will tweet about you!

Hahaha.  SO true. 

And to be clear, I think Mahomes is pretty awesome so far in his career.  But it's an open and ongoing competition, and there are, have been, and will be other guys and teams that are also great/awesome (and likely even better).  Some will be great for a long time, others for flashes, others only during certain chapters.  But I do get mighty tired of all-consuming hype narratives in sports (and politics, and news, and social trends, and...), and have learned to take virtually every proclamation-as-fact with a huge grain of salt.  Any given Sunday.  That's the GREAT thing about sports and football, specifically.  Each game is a new chance, each season starts over from 0-0.  Tannheill's reputation as a Dolphin clearly isn't an applicable description of his reality NOW.  Mahomes/Jackson/Wilson/Rodgers/Brady/Watson/Newton/Dak/Garappalo/Minshew/Trevor/whomever-we're-hyping-this-week has to prove it over and over on the field, despite whatever noise surrounds them.  I try to pretty much ignore the noise, and appreciate the given Sunday.

That said, as I've said several times on here, it's been real fun since last December to finally have my never-in-the-spotlight team finally be a topic of discussion in the sports world.  It's been so rare, that now I'm really enjoying the ride, however far (or not) it goes.  I appreciate it, rather than expect it or, even worse, being numb/indifferent to it.  Not sure my Titans will ever be glamorous media darlings, or married to supermodels, or have anyone serve as the face of the NFL, but man they're effective/fun out there despite their flaws and I'm having a blast.  Most fun I've had watching this team since the Eddie George/Steve McNair days, and the Warren Moon run-and-shoot days before that.

[black_biff_stadler]

Get into a fist fight and do anything stereotyped as "fighting like a girl" and you'll be ridiculed by the same crowd that acts like it's not cheap as shit to pull a guy down by his hair. It's nice to see that they're so against dudes having long hair that they'll gladly be hypocrites just to support a cheap tactic.

[Dublagent66]

All the sports analysts are having a field day with their NFC East coverage.  By far the bottom feeding division of the NFL.  They are all so fascinated by the fact that this division is so bad, that it just might be possible for a 5-11 team to host a wild card playoff game against a team with an 11-5 record.    I mean, we've all seen teams with losing records win their division, but this is ridiculous.  I never imagined that Dallas would be leading the division thru 6 games at 2-4.  Pathetic.

[cramx3]

All the sports analysts are having a field day with their NFC East coverage.  By far the bottom feeding division of the NFL.  They are all so fascinated by the fact that this division is so bad, that it just might be possible for a 5-11 team to host a wild card playoff game against a team with an 11-5 record.    I mean, we've all seen teams with losing records win their division, but this is ridiculous.  I never imagined that Dallas would be leading the division thru 6 games at 2-4.  Pathetic.

It is pathetic, but it's at least giving me, a Giants fan, a reason to watch and even see a light at the end of the tunnel for such a terrible team  like, if they can win tonight, they are actually in a good spot to still win the division sitting at 2-5.  I mean, I don't expect them to win, but the hope of improvement and playing in meaningful games at the end of the season still seems possible because their competition isn't much better.

[hunnus2000]

All the sports analysts are having a field day with their NFC East coverage.  By far the bottom feeding division of the NFL.  They are all so fascinated by the fact that this division is so bad, that it just might be possible for a 5-11 team to host a wild card playoff game against a team with an 11-5 record.    I mean, we've all seen teams with losing records win their division, but this is ridiculous.  I never imagined that Dallas would be leading the division thru 6 games at 2-4.  Pathetic.

It is pathetic, but it's at least giving me, a Giants fan, a reason to watch and even see a light at the end of the tunnel for such a terrible team  like, if they can win tonight, they are actually in a good spot to still win the division sitting at 2-5.  I mean, I don't expect them to win, but the hope of improvement and playing in meaningful games at the end of the season still seems possible because their competition isn't much better.

Hey, anything with this division is possible. I just know that my Dallas Cowboys could not beat the Coppell Cowboys. Ohhh...HUnnus us going back to bed. 

[Dublagent66]

All the sports analysts are having a field day with their NFC East coverage.  By far the bottom feeding division of the NFL.  They are all so fascinated by the fact that this division is so bad, that it just might be possible for a 5-11 team to host a wild card playoff game against a team with an 11-5 record.    I mean, we've all seen teams with losing records win their division, but this is ridiculous.  I never imagined that Dallas would be leading the division thru 6 games at 2-4.  Pathetic.

It is pathetic, but it's at least giving me, a Giants fan, a reason to watch and even see a light at the end of the tunnel for such a terrible team  like, if they can win tonight, they are actually in a good spot to still win the division sitting at 2-5.  I mean, I don't expect them to win, but the hope of improvement and playing in meaningful games at the end of the season still seems possible because their competition isn't much better.

True, but I'm actually picking Philly tonight because they're at home.  However, if the G-men win, that's ok too cause I really can't stand the Beagles. 

[cramx3]

All the sports analysts are having a field day with their NFC East coverage.  By far the bottom feeding division of the NFL.  They are all so fascinated by the fact that this division is so bad, that it just might be possible for a 5-11 team to host a wild card playoff game against a team with an 11-5 record.    I mean, we've all seen teams with losing records win their division, but this is ridiculous.  I never imagined that Dallas would be leading the division thru 6 games at 2-4.  Pathetic.

It is pathetic, but it's at least giving me, a Giants fan, a reason to watch and even see a light at the end of the tunnel for such a terrible team  like, if they can win tonight, they are actually in a good spot to still win the division sitting at 2-5.  I mean, I don't expect them to win, but the hope of improvement and playing in meaningful games at the end of the season still seems possible because their competition isn't much better.

True, but I'm actually picking Philly tonight because they're at home.  However, if the G-men win, that's ok too cause I really can't stand the Beagles. 

Nothing wrong with picking the Eagles, even though they are my #1 most hated team in sports, but its really a crapshoot and the Giants have been pretty bad all year.  As someone who has watched almost all of their snaps though, I do see them actually improving.  OL has been making room for the run game and the defense has kept them in games.  I just have ZERO faith that Daniel Jones can lead them on a game winning drive when these games inevitably come down to the wire.

[Dublagent66]

Well, he almost ran 80 yds for a TD.  His legs just wouldn’t let him.  You had to chuckle.  He was almost there. 

[cramx3]

Well, he almost ran 80 yds for a TD.  His legs just wouldn’t let him.  You had to chuckle.  He was almost there. 

I was laughing hard at that too 

[El Barto]

Well, he almost ran 80 yds for a TD.  His legs just wouldn’t let him.  You had to chuckle.  He was almost there. 

I was laughing hard at that too 

Yeah, that wasn't a trip at all. That was his legs saying "yeah, we're done now." 

[Dublagent66]

Yeah, he definitely didn't trip, but what Aikman said was funny, "the turf monster got him." 

[hunnus2000]

I just finished reading an amazing bio of Joe DiMaggio (by Richard Ben Cramer; HIGHLY recommended, even if you're not a Yankee fan), and it never ceases to amaze me how sport - not just baseball or football - has progressed since the 40's and 50's.   Those guys lived and died by their playoff/World Series cuts.  Some guys doubled their salaries if they made the Series, and for many, it was the difference between making money or not.   It certainly influenced the "product" (in a good way, if you ask me) and having that incentive, instead of having the NFL/MLB be a big-time "payoff" for past performance, might not be the worst thing in the world.

Yup - see one Zeke Elliot.