2020 NFL Thread v. Tom Brady aging better than Mila Kunis

[KevShmev]

To be a little fair to Rodgers, his team has now given up an average of 35.6 in his 9 postseason losses.

And it was 36.1 before today, but dropped a tad after they only gave up 31 today. 

Make no mistake about it, all luck is not created equal in the playoffs, and when looking at the all-time great QB's, Rodgers is right down there with Brees when it comes to unluckiest in the playoffs.

[TAC]

Could it be that Brady's leadership translates across the aisle (to the defense)? And that's the real difference between Brady and Rogers?
Brady isn't about fancy plays breaking the pocket and making some grand throw. Brady is about instilling belief in his teammates...2019 Patriots notwithstanding.

This is also why I think Sean Peyton is the most overrated coach in the league.

[KevShmev]

Could it be that Brady's leadership translates across the aisle (to the defense)? And that's the real difference between Brady and Rogers?
Brady isn't about fancy plays breaking the pocket and making some grand throw. Brady is about instilling belief in his teammates...2019 Patriots notwithstanding.

This is also why I think Sean Peyton is the most overrated coach in the league.

I am sure there is a confidence in knowing that he is your QB, as opposed to knowing that a guy like Winston, who enjoyed throwing interceptions in Tampa as much as eating crab legs or w's, is back there.

[KevShmev]

Meanwhile, LeVeon Bell and Antonio Brown will both be appearing in their first Super Bowl (assuming both are healthy enough to play). 

[Dream Team]

Big Ben 501 yds 4 td 4 picks 37 pts “he sucks”
Brady   280 yds 3 td 3 picks 31 pts “he’s great”

Guys, please. You can credit the TB defense without implying Brady exerted his magic powers. 

[TAC]

The Tamps D has some playmakers for sure. Whoever 45 is, he's awesome, that dude.

[KevShmev]

Big Ben 501 yds 4 td 4 picks 37 pts “he sucks”
Brady   280 yds 3 td 3 picks 31 pts “he’s great”

Guys, please. You can credit the TB defense without implying Brady exerted his magic powers. 

I know you won't reply, or will have some snippy non-reply, since you have become the XeRocks version of this thread (hit and run poster who rarely replies or shows any interest in actual discussion), but if you can't see the difference in how awful Ben was against Cleveland (most of his stats were empty calories) and how Brady's play in the first 2 quarters and change today was integral in building a 28-10 lead that the Packers ultimately could not come back from, not to mention that Brady just made his 10th (!!) Super Bowl while Ben has been stuck on 3 for a decade, then there is little hope for you.

[TAC]

Kev, did that hurt to type that?

[KevShmev]

Kev, did that hurt to type that?

Not at all. I am tired of watching Brady as anybody, especially when he gets unnecessary help from the men in striped shirts, but you have to give it up at some point.

But I guess I'd be pretty bitter, too, if I was a Steelers fan and have had to watch my team become the AFC version of the Dallas Cowboys, living off past reputation at this point.  I am seeing it elsewhere as well (not Twitter!). Steelers fans everywhere hate this more than any other fan base.  I think they have convinced themselves that those mean old cheaters Belichick and Brady are the reason their team hasn't won more rings in that last decade, as if we all imagined those playoff losses to Tim Tebow, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield.

[Cool Chris]

Would have sworn NBC should be on the slate for this SB, was bugging me enough for me to look it up:

Although NBC was to air this game under the current rotation, they traded the game to CBS in exchange for Super Bowl LVI, which falls during the 2022 Winter Olympics and is the first to be scheduled during an ongoing Olympic Games (this also upholds a gentleman's agreement between the NFL's broadcasters to not counter-program the Super Bowl,[20] as NBC also holds the U.S. broadcast rights to the Olympics).

My interest in the NFL is peanuts compared to most of you all here, but I am fairly interested in this game, both the story lines and the match-up on the field.

[T-ski]

To be a little fair to Rodgers, his team has now given up an average of 35.6 in his 9 postseason losses.

And it was 36.1 before today, but dropped a tad after they only gave up 31 today. 

Make no mistake about it, all luck is not created equal in the playoffs, and when looking at the all-time great QB's, Rodgers is right down there with Brees when it comes to unluckiest in the playoffs.

Can’t agree more, Rodgers isn’t responsible for the DC screwing the pooch at the end of the first half today. He didn’t screw up the onside kick in Seattle. He didn’t even touch the ball in two OT losses.

Sure, you can say he needs to score more points, but he’s not responsible for giving up the 36 points per game in the losses.

[black_biff_stadler]

been saying it for many years, how the idea of putting Aaron Rodgers among the greatest quarterbacks ever is utterly ridiculous.

We need boner-react likes for posts like these. I remember he and Brady were the next week's matchup on SNF one week a year or two ago and they had the stupidity to hype it as something like "The two best to ever do it". Bruh, Ben Roethlisberger has more rings than you and he's not quite in that Griese/Plunkett/Eli tier of QBs whom were severely carried by their run game and D (though he's far from being comfortably past that criticism imo).

There is no logical and unbiased way to rank him as high as they do while reducing Brees to a system QB the way the majority of these bums do. The only thing Rodgers has over Brees is fewer INTs and 2 more NFC CG appearances, which he lost. Dude has no realistic shot at the all time TDs or yards records. If he plays 20 seasons that'd be only 4 more which would necessitate ~7300 yards and 40 TDs 4 straight years in the twilight of his career.

[dparrott]

As a Raiders fan I hate both KC and Brady.  Both teams have the same color of red (yawn).  And The Weeknd is performing at halftime (blah).  The only thing that would interest me in this SB is if they brought back the Bud Bowl.

[KevShmev]

We need boner-react likes for posts like these. I remember he and Brady were the next week's matchup on SNF one week a year or two ago and they had the stupidity to hype it as something like "The two best to ever do it". Bruh, Ben Roethlisberger has more rings than you and he's not quite in that Griese/Plunkett/Eli tier of QBs whom were severely carried by their run game and D (though he's far from being comfortably past that criticism imo).

There is no logical and unbiased way to rank him as high as they do while reducing Brees to a system QB the way the majority of these bums do. The only thing Rodgers has over Brees is fewer INTs and 2 more NFC CG appearances, which he lost. Dude has no realistic shot at the all time TDs or yards records. If he plays 20 seasons that'd be only 4 more which would necessitate ~7300 yards and 40 TDs 4 straight years in the twilight of his career.

So basically, Rodgers is better at not turning the ball over (89 interceptions on 6587 career pass attempts for Rodgers, meaning he throws a pick every 1.4 passes out of 100 vs 243 interceptions on 10,551 career pass attempts for Brees, meaning he throws a pick every 2.3 passes out of 100), and Rodgers is better at taking his team further in the playoffs (both have 1 Super Bowl appearance and win, Rodgers has taken his team to twice as many conference championship games despite having been a starter in six less seasons to date), yet am I reading your implication correct that Rodgers is not better than Brees all-time currently?

Note: I do think Brees has been more underrated than not, but no way am I putting him over Rodgers right now.  And to anyone who thinks Roethlisberger is even close to either, I want some of what you're smoking.  

[Stadler]

Big Ben 501 yds 4 td 4 picks 37 pts “he sucks”
Brady   280 yds 3 td 3 picks 31 pts “he’s great”

Guys, please. You can credit the TB defense without implying Brady exerted his magic powers. 

Ever play on a team sport that actually won something?   

It's not "magic powers", but I absolutely guarantee you that that defense is better - even if it's a miniscule amount - with Brady than it is without.   There is a "way to win".  There just is.  Whether it's a way to practice, whether it's an attitude in the locker room, whether it's a swagger on the field, whether it's simply the knowledge that you're important, but nothing you can do will be a dealbreaker in terms of your win, there are (and have been) players in history that elevate their entire team simply by their presence.   Derek Jeter is one.  Mark Messier is another.  I'm not a huge basketball guy, but it looks to me that LeBron James is another (not willing to die on that hill).  John Havlicek is yet another.  Tom Brady is most certainly in that category.

[CrimsonSunrise]

As a Raiders fan I hate both KC and Brady.  Both teams have the same color of red (yawn).  And The Weeknd is performing at halftime (blah).  The only thing that would interest me in this SB is if they brought back the Bud Bowl.

https://imgur.com/30f0avI

[TAC]

Big Ben 501 yds 4 td 4 picks 37 pts “he sucks”
Brady   280 yds 3 td 3 picks 31 pts “he’s great”

Guys, please. You can credit the TB defense without implying Brady exerted his magic powers. 

Ever play on a team sport that actually won something?   

It's not "magic powers", but I absolutely guarantee you that that defense is better - even if it's a miniscule amount - with Brady than it is without.   There is a "way to win".  There just is.  Whether it's a way to practice, whether it's an attitude in the locker room, whether it's a swagger on the field, whether it's simply the knowledge that you're important, but nothing you can do will be a dealbreaker in terms of your win, there are (and have been) players in history that elevate their entire team simply by their presence.   Derek Jeter is one.  Mark Messier is another.  I'm not a huge basketball guy, but it looks to me that LeBron James is another (not willing to die on that hill).  John Havlicek is yet another.  Tom Brady is most certainly in that category.

Yeah, but Jameis Winston threw for 500 more yards than Brady !


I was going to post something like this last night, but I was trying to not sound like a homer. What Brady is able to do is to reach "across the aisle" to the defensive side of the room. Having watched the last 20 years up close, with all of the weekly interviews and pre/post game press conferences, he seems to be a real inclusive teammate, 2019 notwithstanding.

I forget what writer had this, but the Bucs committed 133 penalties in 2019, and only 84 this season. Sure, maybe a second year under Areans is helpful, but Brady ups everyone's focus.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, it is stunning that a team with Tom Brady would not have a lot of penalties called on them by the officials...

[TAC]

Yeah, it is stunning that a team with Tom Brady would not have a lot of penalties called on them by the officials...

[King Postwhore]

TBS


Tom Brady Syndrome.

[hunnus2000]

As a Raiders fan I hate both KC and Brady.  Both teams have the same color of red (yawn).  And The Weeknd is performing at halftime (blah).  The only thing that would interest me in this SB is if they brought back the Bud Bowl.

 I saw this morning where Budweiser is not going to advertise in this year's SB.

[Dream Team]

I've given up all hope of sane fact-based analysis of the NFL becoming mainstream. Some of the ideas being thrown around here are a joke.

I can play too.

I think Terry Bradshaw "willed" his defense to play great in those 4 Super Bowls.

Prove me wrong.

See how that works?

Thank goodness Kevshmev is around to lend some sanity to this thread. The Brady cultists have taken over. He tried his best to lose that game in the second half but his D bailed him out. That's the actual reality, and everyone would agree with it if it had been Rivers or Romo or Ryan doing that crap in the second half. Brady's D bailed him out, as usual. 3-1 in playoff games where he throws 3 picks. LOL. Maybe he threw them on purpose so that he could practice "willing" his defense to step up? You guys are too smart to roll with these types of fantasy narratives.

Fact: Brady had a much better O-Line and defense in this game and that is why Tampa Bay won. 21 QB pressures to 5. It wasn't "guts" or "will" or "intangibles" or "presence" or any arcane mysticism people seem fascinated with instead of Xs and Os. Oh yeah, only 1 QB of the 4 played great yesterday and we all know who that was.  Mahomes was head and shoulders better. That's one last thing, in their 4 head-to-head matchups Mahomes has an 11-3 TD/INT ratio while Brady is at 6:5.

[King Postwhore]

You do know that you don't always play the best game but you do enough to win Dream Team?  When a team turns the ball over and you capitalize while the other QB doesn't,  when you are 9/14 on third down. That's what it takes to win.  The big plays in the big moments.

You have this hatred of a player that blurs your vision.  You don't make 10 SB's because you are just lucky.  You also aren't the only reason but you are a big cog to why.  Without that QB, others can't make great plays that matter.

[TAC]

I realize I'm coming off as Brady honk here but c'mon Dream Team.

You obviously hate Brady. Cool.

[Stadler]

I've given up all hope of sane fact-based analysis of the NFL becoming mainstream. Some of the ideas being thrown around here are a joke.

I can play too.

I think Terry Bradshaw "willed" his defense to play great in those 4 Super Bowls.

Prove me wrong.

See how that works?

Thank goodness Kevshmev is around to lend some sanity to this thread. The Brady cultists have taken over. He tried his best to lose that game in the second half but his D bailed him out. That's the actual reality, and everyone would agree with it if it had been Rivers or Romo or Ryan doing that crap in the second half. Brady's D bailed him out, as usual. 3-1 in playoff games where he throws 3 picks. LOL. Maybe he threw them on purpose so that he could practice "willing" his defense to step up? You guys are too smart to roll with these types of fantasy narratives.

Fact: Brady had a much better O-Line and defense in this game and that is why Tampa Bay won. 21 QB pressures to 5. It wasn't "guts" or "will" or "intangibles" or "presence" or any arcane mysticism people seem fascinated with instead of Xs and Os. Oh yeah, only 1 QB of the 4 played great yesterday and we all know who that was.  Mahomes was head and shoulders better. That's one last thing, in their 4 head-to-head matchups Mahomes has an 11-3 TD/INT ratio while Brady is at 6:5.

First, stop with the "insanity" nonsense, and second, if you ARE going to go down that path, at least get the argument right.  No one - at least not me - ever said Brady "willed" anyone to be better.  That's ridiculous.  I said, and stand by, that he on any given Sunday, raised everyone's level of play.  And that's the third thing: does it make him perfect? No.  Does it mean that on any given play or in any given game that he didn't control the outcome of the game?  Sure.  Absolutely, and I'm not sure anyone else is saying that either.   

But you're swinging it the other way with your ridiculous "cult" nonsense.   Yeah, maybe THAT game he got some help.  There are hundreds of games in his career where he didn't get the help AND STILL WON.

I'm not into personal explanations for crazy behavior, but if I was to choose between ALL of us here being "insane" cultists or one person being bitter and angry that Brady wasn't on his team, I know where my money would go.... 

[TAC]

I think he's going at me with the "will the defense" as I stated that I believe Brady's influence stretches "across the aisle".


That's my opinion based on what my perceptions, the testimonies of his teammates, and the actions on the field over the last 20 years. I get railing against the Brady Gaga Machine, but I'm not selling anything here, other than having a football conversation between friends over a beer. But to deny Brady at this point is nuts.

Sure he played for a great coach with (many years) a great defense. And may have gotten a call or two. But 10 SBs in 20 years, and 4 AFCCG in 4 others? There's a common thread.

[Stadler]

I look at it this way; if you're on a team and you see the star player coming in early, giving up the Benjamins to have a better team, and putting in the reps and the work to be the best ever, are you going to do the bare minimum and then go to the hot tub?  Are you going to do your reps once and go tweet?   If, after all that, you're on the sidelines waiting to get in and Brady walks up to you and says "Stads, bro, look; think back to all the work we put in, all the practice all the discipline; we need a stop this series.  Get me the ball back and we go to the Super Bowl", are you going to go tweet something, or are you going to knuckle down and give the three best plays of your life?   Because not for nothing, he did throw those picks, but he also wore that clock down like a mofo at the end.   

[El Barto]

I don't hate Brady and I'm not a cultist. He's playing occasionally great and occasionally terrible football for a consistently solid team. The rest of his team gives him the opportunity to bail himself out of his own predicaments, and because he's the GOAT he does so. Looking at the game yesterday I didn't get the impression that Trent Dilfer could have carried them to the Super Bowl. They're not that good. I think they are good enough that plenty of other QBs could, and Brady can easily, despite occasionally poor play.

[TAC]

I look at it this way; if you're on a team and you see the star player coming in early, giving up the Benjamins to have a better team, and putting in the reps and the work to be the best ever, are you going to do the bare minimum and then go to the hot tub?  Are you going to do your reps once and go tweet?   If, after all that, you're on the sidelines waiting to get in and Brady walks up to you and says "Stads, bro, look; think back to all the work we put in, all the practice all the discipline; we need a stop this series.  Get me the ball back and we go to the Super Bowl", are you going to go tweet something, or are you going to knuckle down and give the three best plays of your life?   Because not for nothing, he did throw those picks, but he also wore that clock down like a mofo at the end.

Yup. I recall Terry Bradshaw saying the same thing to Jack Lambert and Mel Blount..

[KevShmev]

I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but I put $100 on the Bucs to win the NFC at +275 two months ago.  My brother placed the bet for me at a local legal sports book.  Funny story, it was the same day they got blasted by the Saints on SNF, so I was like, 'Great, the one time I bet big money on Tom Brady.'    But, ultimately, here we are, and I will be cashing that in and getting my $375 here soon.

[Dublagent66]

Good for you Kev.  I can't bring myself to bet on sports.

[KevShmev]

Aside from fantasy football, I usually don't, but that was a spur of the moment thing.  I used to bet on point spreads on a regular basis back in my early to mid 20's, but that got too stressful, so I chucked it.

[Cool Chris]

Heard two things on radio today, hope I got them straight in my memory:

1) The last time a team won the SB with a QB making >13% of their team's cap was 1995 (Steve Young, 49ers).

2) Steph Curry, whom we may all agree is the best 3 point shooter, and maybe the best overall shooter, in NBA history, hits 3s at a clip of 43%. Tom Brady has been in the NFL 21 years, and has made the SB in 10 of them, a 47% clip. Tom Brady gets to the SB at a higher rate than Steph Curry makes 3s.

[bosk1]

#1 is not really relevant to anything.  There is not necessarily a correlation. 

#2 is not a comparable stat.  I shouldn't need to say that.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, number 2 is one of those cute little memes you seen on FB, put out there merely to slurp TB12, as if he isn't raw and drained already from the last two days.