2020 NFL Thread v. Tom Brady aging better than Mila Kunis

[King Postwhore]

Building the team is the issue. He flaunts here this year that he sold out the last four years.

That's rich seeing what other teams have done and his best player couldn't get 25 million a year for 2 years.

Kev, I feel your pain. 

[black_biff_stadler]

How many more horrible and game-changing calls are the refs gonna get away with? This is just pathetic. We saw it, the CBS commentators saw it. I'm coming pretty close to finally leaving this shitshow of tampering for good.

You should. You've been convinced for years that this is WWE style scripted. I can't figure out why you still watch it.

I know. But I'd hate to miss a Saints SB. Also, there wasn't a single frame showing a Bills player making contact with the Colts receiver while his knee was down. What actual empirical data are you basing this "too close to overrule" angle on?

Funny you mention frames. I'd expect them to be running 120 FPS or something. That dude's hand moved 4 inches between frames on the replay.

Your analysis is backwards. It was called a catch. You don't need evidence to uphold it, you need evidence to overturn it. I didn't see enough empirical data to overturn it. And like TCoNYC says, it's playoff football. You don't end the game on something that close.

There is literally zero precedence of the NFL ever using phantom evidence occurring between frames in order to make a call so you're gonna have to try harder than that.

No. I don't. I don't have to prove shit. You have to prove that he wasn't down by contact to overturn the call.

They literally proved it 6 or 7 times with frame by frame replay plus the in-house former ref dude, without hesitation, agreed that the refs blew the initial call. What else is necessary, a signed affidavit from the Colts receiver stating that he fumbled?

[KevShmev]

Building the team is the issue. He flaunts here this year that he sold out the last four years.

That's rich seeing what other teams have done and his best player couldn't get 25 million a year for 2 years.

Kev, I feel your pain. 

Just goes to show you that even the best coaches need players.  Look at Popovich in basketball.  As awesome as he was/is, since Tim Duncan retired, he has two playoff series wins in four years (both of which came the year after Duncan retired, when the rest of the core of that team was still mostly in place). 

And in true "Brady is great and also the luckiest ever" fashion, the Bucs are now a Bears upset today away from being the first wild card team to ever host a divisional round game at home.  I am almost expecting it to happen.

[dparrott]

If the Bears get past the Saints, the Bucs would host the Rams.

Ah crap.   Either way the Rams are screwed.

I'm sad the Seahawks lost but cool with the Rams winning.

[Stadler]

Stads I understand why you don’t want to declare Mahomes the GOAT yet as that would be ridiculous, but you can’t tell me after watching the guy ball out for three years straight no matter who he plays against that you don’t think he’s at the very least one of the best playing right now.

Of course he is.  That would be ridiculous to say otherwise.  I've said that.    That's not the narrative, though.   I don't object to Mahomes himself (though he's not my favorite; I prefer Brees, Rogers, Jackson, and Mayfield, though I'm not suggesting the latter two are "better", I just like watching them play), I object to the anointing.   

[Stadler]

While I agree he played great, Tampa had even more drops. Imagine barely going over 50% and almost throwing 400 yards with 2 TD's?

Bill Belichick should be shamed.

Bill just needs to adjust how he coaches and builds the team to fit in with the way the game works today. He can’t be such a hardass about things anymore, as the success of a team has less to do with the coaches than it used to, and he pushed away his two best offensive players ever. Belichick is still the greatest coach of all time, and if anyone can turn things around quickly it’s him. He just has to be willing to adjust the way he does business.

I think we all should agree that it is a combo of player and coach.  And that combo has to be in synch.   I think the notion that it's "one or the other", and this was a "contest" was stupid to begin with, but that's the way the majority of the world tihnks. Black, white, yes, no, there's no middle ground, no complexity.   The talent level on the Buccanneers - other than QB (though certainly there too) - SMOKES the Patriots at every position, except MAYBE in the defensive secondary.  And yet, they're not going to the Super Bowl (IMO), and if they do, they're almost certainly not winning it. 

If one INSISTS on comparing, I say, wait till Brady retires, and compare over that span from when he left.  The totality of the work.

Oh, and apparently the honeymoon is over/ending.   Heinecke I guess has said some things supporting Trump, so now he sucks and doesn't deserve his spot on the team.

[KevShmev]

Not that I don't think Mahomes is awesome, but it is a bit noteworthy that this is now the 2nd year in a row that he was not the 1st team All-Pro QB.  If he was the "OMG, HE WILL BE THE GOAT" player like a few are suggesting already, shouldn't he be sweeping the awards every year? I will say this: he is not always going to have both Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill, and I will be curious to see how he does once his skill position players aren't better than everyone else's.  Jeez, now I sound like Stadler.

[Stadler]

How many more horrible and game-changing calls are the refs gonna get away with? This is just pathetic. We saw it, the CBS commentators saw it. I'm coming pretty close to finally leaving this shitshow of tampering for good.

You should. You've been convinced for years that this is WWE style scripted. I can't figure out why you still watch it.

I know. But I'd hate to miss a Saints SB. Also, there wasn't a single frame showing a Bills player making contact with the Colts receiver while his knee was down. What actual empirical data are you basing this "too close to overrule" angle on?

Funny you mention frames. I'd expect them to be running 120 FPS or something. That dude's hand moved 4 inches between frames on the replay.

Your analysis is backwards. It was called a catch. You don't need evidence to uphold it, you need evidence to overturn it. I didn't see enough empirical data to overturn it. And like TCoNYC says, it's playoff football. You don't end the game on something that close.

There is literally zero precedence of the NFL ever using phantom evidence occurring between frames in order to make a call so you're gonna have to try harder than that.

No. I don't. I don't have to prove shit. You have to prove that he wasn't down by contact to overturn the call.

They literally proved it 6 or 7 times with frame by frame replay plus the in-house former ref dude, without hesitation, agreed that the refs blew the initial call. What else is necessary, a signed affidavit from the Colts receiver stating that he fumbled?

I shouldn't stick my nose in, but you are sort of arguing oranges to El Barto's apples.  It's not about whether the call was, objectively and in absolute terms, "right".  It's about the standard for CHANGING it.  The deference is to the call on the field, in real time, by the officials paid to make the call.   If the replay is CLEAR, that is to say, there is NO (or little) gray area, it gets overturned.   If New York looks at it and says "well, it MIGHT be a blown call", that's not (according to the standard) enough.   

If the call on the field is "he was touched", and the booth says "well, I didn't see the touch, but I didn't see the NOT touch either", then the play stands.  The last (I think it was the last) Washington TD (did he juggle, did he not juggle) falls in the same category.

[Stadler]

Not that I don't think Mahomes is awesome, but it is a bit noteworthy that this is now the 2nd year in a row that he was not the 1st team All-Pro QB.  If he was the "OMG, HE WILL BE THE GOAT" player like a few are suggesting already, shouldn't he be sweeping the awards every year? I will say this: he is not always going to have both Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill, and I will be curious to see how he does once his skill position players aren't better than everyone else's.  Jeez, now I sound like Stadler.

Thats because I've written the exact same thing multiple times. It feels good, doesn't it. DOESN'T it!?!  .   But I'm with you 100%.  He doesn't even have to do it for 20 years like Brady; just give me ten - at least one cycle through the skill players - and I'm with you.  I don't HATE the guy, he's just Kurt Warner circa 2000 right now (and for the record, Kurt Warner is one of my favorite players of all time.   I LOVE that guy.)

[KevShmev]

Not that I don't think Mahomes is awesome, but it is a bit noteworthy that this is now the 2nd year in a row that he was not the 1st team All-Pro QB.  If he was the "OMG, HE WILL BE THE GOAT" player like a few are suggesting already, shouldn't he be sweeping the awards every year? I will say this: he is not always going to have both Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill, and I will be curious to see how he does once his skill position players aren't better than everyone else's.  Jeez, now I sound like Stadler.

Thats because I've written the exact same thing multiple times. It feels good, doesn't it. DOESN'T it!?!  .   But I'm with you 100%.  He doesn't even have to do it for 20 years like Brady; just give me ten - at least one cycle through the skill players - and I'm with you.  I don't HATE the guy, he's just Kurt Warner circa 2000 right now (and for the record, Kurt Warner is one of my favorite players of all time.   I LOVE that guy.)

Haha, I almost added the Kurt Warner comparison to my post.

Warner was unbelievable those three years with the Rams, but of course he had Faulk, Bruce and Holt (three Hall of Famers when it will all be said and done) and a Pro Bowl LT (Orlando Pace).  Not saying any QB can do well if you surround him with unreal talent, but it sure does help a lot, unless you're Jameis Winston circa 2019.

The luck factor can never be discounted as well.  Through a little over 3 quarters in last year's Super Bowl, Mahomes had the look of "overhyped QB who shit the bed in the Super Bowl," but his defense held down the fort until he finally made some plays and boom they win the game and he is the hero.  Had the KC defense turtled like the Broncos defense did in SB49 against the Seahawks, it might have been 34-10 in the 4th quarter and Mahomes goes down as the goat (not the possible future GOAT).

[hunnus2000]

Not that I don't think Mahomes is awesome, but it is a bit noteworthy that this is now the 2nd year in a row that he was not the 1st team All-Pro QB.  If he was the "OMG, HE WILL BE THE GOAT" player like a few are suggesting already, shouldn't he be sweeping the awards every year? I will say this: he is not always going to have both Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill, and I will be curious to see how he does once his skill position players aren't better than everyone else's.  Jeez, now I sound like Stadler.

Thats because I've written the exact same thing multiple times. It feels good, doesn't it. DOESN'T it!?!  .   But I'm with you 100%.  He doesn't even have to do it for 20 years like Brady; just give me ten - at least one cycle through the skill players - and I'm with you.  I don't HATE the guy, he's just Kurt Warner circa 2000 right now (and for the record, Kurt Warner is one of my favorite players of all time.   I LOVE that guy.)

Haha, I almost added the Kurt Warner comparison to my post.

Warner was unbelievable those three years with the Rams, but of course he had Faulk, Bruce and Holt (three Hall of Famers when it will all be said and done) and a Pro Bowl LT (Orlando Pace).  Not saying any QB can do well if you surround him with unreal talent, but it sure does help a lot, unless you're Jameis Winston circa 2019.

The luck factor can never be discounted as well.  Through a little over 3 quarters in last year's Super Bowl, Mahomes had the look of "overhyped QB who shit the bed in the Super Bowl," but his defense held down the fort until he finally made some plays and boom they win the game and he is the hero.  Had the KC defense turtled like the Broncos defense did in SB49 against the Seahawks, it might have been 34-10 in the 4th quarter and Mahomes goes down as the goat (not the possible future GOAT).

I got to admit, Kurt Warner is my man-crush. From going to a grocery store stocker to a Super Bowl QB AND taking another franchise to a Super Bowl? That's a movie just waiting to be made! 
As far as the talent around him, well that's a given as no one player can get a team to a SB in the game of football. Think Archie Manning - incredily talented for a stinky NO franchise.

P-Mahomes to me seems like a slow starter in some games last season and also this season. But he DOES come through!

As far as P-Mahomes - I have to give them props

[TheCountOfNYC]

I’m sorry, but Lamar Jackson is NOT a good quarterback. If it wasn’t for his running skills, he would be worthless.

[pg1067]

The NFL needs to create "late hit" and "illegal contact" penalties so that it isn't a 15-yard personal foul every time a d-lineman bumps a QB who just threw a pass and knocks the QB down or a d-lineman who makes incidental contact with the QB's helmet.

[Stadler]

I got to admit, Kurt Warner is my man-crush. From going to a grocery store stocker to a Super Bowl QB AND taking another franchise to a Super Bowl? That's a movie just waiting to be made! 
As far as the talent around him, well that's a given as no one player can get a team to a SB in the game of football. Think Archie Manning - incredily talented for a stinky NO franchise.

P-Mahomes to me seems like a slow starter in some games last season and also this season. But he DOES come through!

As far as P-Mahomes - I have to give them props

The best part of Kurt Warner?  He's the Giants QB, they start slow, and bench him for Eli, who does NOT light it up.   Yet, he never complained, never went to the press, never did anything other than be a team player and help make Eli the best he could be.   Sure, he left after a season, but he did it with class and aplomb. 

[KevShmev]

Awesome game by the Ravens D. They dominated in the trenches and shut down D. Henry, and their offense did just enough to win the game.

[Stadler]

So... this is for El Barto, going back to our DeShaun Watson discussion. 

So the Texans signed Nick Caserio to be GM.  Belichick went out of his way to praise Caserio and build him up. In Houston, when they shit-canned O'Brien, Watson lobbied for Eric Bieniemy, who hasn't even been interviewed by them.  He's apparently salty.  IF Caserio can't mend that fence, does that open up the Pats to be a source for his landing?   

[KevShmev]

As someone who wants the best possible games next week, here's hoping the Saints don't shit the bed today and instead take care of business. Bears/Packers and Rams/Bucs next weekend doesn't sound nearly as exciting as Bucs/Saints and Rams/Packers does. 

[DragonAttack]

Had a much needed distraction and joy almost ruined by the Ravens logo stomping after the INT.  I know all the background, but....if you want to be stupid, do it after the game, please!  Really embarrassed by that.  Nice to end a six year playoff win drought.  And.....what a defensive performance stopping Henry (18/48) and Tannehill. 

Fifth time in the teams' history that the road team was victorious. 

Time to exhale.....

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

At this point I'm kind of rooting for the Bills or the Browns to win the Superbowl. Neither is likely, but it could happen. I really hope the Bears pull out a win against the Saints.

[KevShmev]

Can I rescind my Saints Super Bowl pick?

Not only does Drew Brees look about done (I am sure his broken ribs are still irksome), he looks like he wants to be somewhere else.  If they eke this out over the Bears, I think the Bucs take them out next week.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

At least the Saints defense is holding up.....so far.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Can I rescind my Saints Super Bowl pick?

Not only does Drew Brees look about done (I am sure his broken ribs are still irksome), he looks like he wants to be somewhere else.  If they eke this out over the Bears, I think the Bucs take them out next week.

I think they still have a good shot. I at the very least need them to get past Tampa next week. I can’t stomach another Tom Brady Super Bowl.

[KevShmev]

Rams vs Packers next Saturday afternoon
Bill plays Saturday night (against either the Steelers or Ravens)
Chiefs play mid-Sunday afternoon (against either the Ravens or Browns)
Saints vs Bucs next Sunday evening (or 5:40 technically)

[Stadler]

Wow. 

I picked Pittsburgh, but since everyone else did as well, I have no dog in the ACTUAL winner.   I wouldn't mind if Cleveland took this home.   Two turnovers in two consecutive series is a tough start for Steeltown.

[TheCountOfNYC]

JuJu Smith-Schuster made the classic mistake this week of giving extra motivation to an already motivated team. I’m not saying that the Browns are definitely gonna win, but I think this game will be more of a battle than JuJu is expecting.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Well, the Browns are basically curb stomping the Steelers right now. 21-0 just 10 minutes into the 1st quarter.

[faizoff]

Since I haven't been watching that much football I forgot Dick LeBau retired from the Steelers a while back, it looks like Pitt's defense retired too.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Well, the Browns are basically curb stomping the Steelers right now. 21-0 just 10 minutes into the 1st quarter.

The Browns struggled with COVID more than any other team this season and still went 11-5. They’re a good team and more importantly than that, they’re hungry. They’ve been getting demolished by the Steelers for the better part of the past three decades now. They have an opportunity to finally get a measure of revenge, and for the time being they’re making the most of this opportunity. I still think the Steelers are good enough to turn this game around, especially with Big Ben playing better than he has in the past five years, but regardless of the results, this game should show that the Cleveland Browns are for real.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Well, the Browns are basically curb stomping the Steelers right now. 21-0 just 10 minutes into the 1st quarter.

The Browns struggled with COVID more than any other team this season and still went 11-5. They’re a good team and more importantly than that, they’re hungry. They’ve been getting demolished by the Steelers for the better part of the past three decades now. They have an opportunity to finally get a measure of revenge, and for the time being they’re making the most of this opportunity. I still think the Steelers are good enough to turn this game around, especially with Big Ben playing better than he has in the past five years, but regardless of the results, this game should show that the Cleveland Browns are for real.

So far Big Ben is playing worse than he ever has in this game.

And now 28-0 in the first quarter. Good lord!

[pg1067]

This is some crazy shit going on in Pittsburgh!

[faizoff]

Well if anyone can screw up that big of a lead it would be the Browns.... and of course the Superbowl Falcons.

[Dublagent66]

Un. Fucking. Believable. 

[KevShmev]

I can't say I am totally surprised by this given how bad the Steelers have been for the last month or so, outside of that little spurt in the 2nd half vs Indy, but no one saw 28-0 in the 1st quarter coming.  This is crazy.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Well if anyone can screw up that big of a lead it would be the Browns.... and of course the Superbowl Falcons.

Touche'

[TheCountOfNYC]

Well if anyone can screw up that big of a lead it would be the Browns.... and of course the Superbowl Falcons.

You know, I was having a good day and you had to go and remind me of, to this day, the only game to actually trigger an anxiety attack.

I mean I’m over it at this point, but dammit that game messed me up for a little bit.