Kirk Douglas RIP

[TAC]

What an asshole!!


 

[Harmony]

So won't Natalie Wood's sister be releasing some sort evidence that indicates Kirk Douglass was a rapist now?  IIRC that was part of the discussion on the "Don't Speak Ill of the Dead" thread.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Did you misspell his name on purpose? 

[black_biff_stadler]

Nah, he's really former NFL great, Bobby Douglass', dad.

[El Barto]

What an asshole!!


 

Really is interesting timing, innit?

So won't Natalie Wood's sister be releasing some sort evidence that indicates Kirk Douglass was a rapist now?  IIRC that was part of the discussion on the "Don't Speak Ill of the Dead" thread.

That was the plan. However, if she hasn't by now I'm not sure if him being alive really mattered all that much. It's not like he was going to show up and kick her ass or anything. I'm not sure if anybody ever lets the cat out.

[Cool Chris]

I understand that in Hollywood he is a legend, and he had a long and storied acting career. But were any of his roles or performances actually legendary in and of themselves?

[El Barto]

I understand that in Hollywood he is a legend, and he had a long and storied acting career. But were any of his roles or performances actually legendary in and of themselves?

Spartacus was certainly legendary, but I never really thought it was for his acting, though. I thought he was fairly uninspired. Particularly alongside that allstar cast. In fact I've never really seen him in anything that demonstrated any real depth. I've seen him in some very good movies, but he never added anything other than steadiness. If you need somebody to play a military officer he was a great choice. If you needed somebody to really act you hired Burt Lancaster.

[Cool Chris]

That was my thinking. I honestly can't think of anything I've seen him in other than Spartacus, Gunfight at the OK Corral, and Paths of Glory. All solid films but to your point, not because of him. He was Jamie Moyer: a long, dependable if not steller career, someone you want on your staff if you can get him at a reasonable price, but not someone who is going to lead you to a World Series.

[El Barto]

That was my thinking. I honestly can't think of anything I've seen him in other than Spartacus, Gunfight at the OK Corral, and Paths of Glory. All solid films but to your point, not because of him. He was Jamie Moyer: a long, dependable if not steller career, someone you want on your staff if you can get him at a reasonable price, but not someone who is going to lead you to a World Series.

Watching Gunfight right now. It's actually one of Kirk's better roles. He actually brings some character to Doc Holiday.

I'd be surprised if you hadn't seen The Final Countdown with him and Martin Sheen. The Vikings was a cool flick, but again I'd say it was despite Douglas, who's about as Scandinavian as Samuel L. Jackson. Seven Days in May is great, and probably right up your alley.

[Cool Chris]

For as many classic films I have seen and enjoyed over the years, there are just as many, if not more, that I've missed out on. I'll put Seven Days in May in the queue, I recall it has a Fail-Safe vibe(?)

[Zydar]

I remember him from that movie Greedy with Michael J Fox.

[Mladen]

All I know is his performance on The Simpsons as Chester J Lampwich, the creator of Itchy & Scratchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGvY3ookUY

[El Barto]

For as many classic films I have seen and enjoyed over the years, there are just as many, if not more, that I've missed out on. I'll put Seven Days in May in the queue, I recall it has a Fail-Safe vibe(?)

It's funny. I really don't like modern movies much at all. Yet there are so many classic movies I can watch a "new" film every day for the rest of my life, and they'll be far more to my liking than car chases, super heroes, and pew-pew-pew. 

In any case, SDiM is certainly of the same genre as Failsafe. They're both cold war thrillers from the 60s with a fair amount of tension. Failsafe was certainly more tense, it was Sidney Lumet, after all. SDiM is Frankenheimer, so it's faster moving. It's certainly not an action movie, but it's not a bunch of guys in bunkers destroying the world. Of the two I'd give Failsafe the nod, partly because I'm a big Lumet fan, and in part because I really dug Matthau's character. There's some wonderful acting in SDiM, though. Frederick March is an excellent 60s president, and Burt Lancaster was the fucking Man. Kirk Douglas was simply Kirk Douglas.

And if you haven't actually seen it, The Final Countdown was an amusing 90 minutes. It's certainly not an Oscar winner, but it's an interesting idea, well executed.

[Phoenix87x]

All I know is his performance on The Simpsons as Chester J Lampwich, the creator of Itchy & Scratchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGvY3ookUY

Wow, never knew that was him.

I really always liked Paths of Glory, the Kubrick WWI film

[El Barto]

All I know is his performance on The Simpsons as Chester J Lampwich, the creator of Itchy & Scratchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGvY3ookUY

Wow, never knew that was him.

It took me right up until "I feel like liver and onions." There was no mistaking that voice.

[hefdaddy42]

Let's not sell him too short on his acting.  He was, after all, nominated for Best Actor 3 times, none of which were for Spartacus. 

Admittedly, he never won (although he received an honorary Oscar in 1996).

[pg1067]

As best I can tell from looking at his filmography, the only things I've seen him in were an episode of Xena: Warrior Princess (in which they apparently used footage from Spartacus) and the worst movie I ever saw, Sylvester Stallone's Oscar.

I saw on FB that he died.  When I got home, my wife asked me, "did you know that Kirk Douglas was 103?"  My response was that I didn't even know he was still alive.  He was one of those guys who's been uber-famous since I was a kid.

[Cool Chris]

Failsafe was certainly more tense, it was Sidney Lumet, after all. SDiM is Frankenheimer, so it's faster moving. It's certainly not an action movie, but it's not a bunch of guys in bunkers destroying the world. Of the two I'd give Failsafe the nod, partly because I'm a big Lumet fan, and in part because I really dug Matthau's character.

I can't imagine many movies from that era more tense than FailSafe. The first time I watched it I didn't have the right mindset or something and found it dull (though appreciated how boss Matthau's character and performance were). The second viewing years later I was able to appreciate how good it really is.

Let's not sell him too short on his acting.

I don't know if we are. I just was just wondering if his legendary status was built more on him being... well, legendary, and less on him being a stellar actor. If he was one of those guys who basically played the same character his whole career, and did it well, then that is perfectly fine. Cary Grant always played a version of Cary Grant,  but he did it so well he became one of the biggest stars ever.

I've never been a big Burt Lancaster guy, but appreciated early on that his performances were going to be a bit more diverse from one role to the next.

[hefdaddy42]

As best I can tell from looking at his filmography, the only things I've seen him in were an episode of Xena: Warrior Princess (in which they apparently used footage from Spartacus) and the worst movie I ever saw, Sylvester Stallone's Oscar.

Nah, man.  Oscar is awesome.

[Adami]

I think Kirk was a fine actor, though I have not seen nearly all of his movies. But I think he was a classic leading man type, rather than a Marlon Brando or something. So his way of acting, or his archetype is just not so much around these days and it's hard to compare with modern acting.

[El Barto]

I think Kirk was a fine actor, though I have not seen nearly all of his movies. But I think he was a classic leading man type, rather than a Marlon Brando or something. So his way of acting, or his archetype is just not so much around these days and it's hard to compare with modern acting.

I think this is exactly right. I also think that there were a whole lot of those classic leading man types that did it far better than he did. Your Pecks, Bogarts, and Traceys were better at portraying emotion and mood better, and as such were almost always more convincing in their roles. Just because you're not a Brando or Olivier doesn't mean you don't have to convey the sentiment of your character. James Cagney summed up acting brilliantly: you just look at the camera and tell the truth. I never really got the impression that Spartacus loved Varinia, or that Doc Holiday really hated Johnny Ringo.

[Harmony]

From that era, my nod would go to Jack Lemmon.  One of my all time favorite actors ever.

Love Gene Kelly too.  Yeah, he was more of a dancer/singer, but he was a helluva leading man.

[Cool Chris]

Harmony, I swear I am not going out of my way to disagree with you, but I always thought Jack Lemmon, while solid, played more of a schtick in many of his roles than a character. Mr. Roberts, The Apartment, The Odd Couple, it seems like his delivery, his mannerisms, they are all the same. That isn't a knock on his talent, it is unquestionably there. Hey was just one of those actors where I see him on the screen and think "Hey, there's Jack Lemmon." But then there is Glengarry Glen Ross, where he puts on an acting clinic (with the rest of the cast).

Can't argue with Gene Kelly. Only Singing in the Rain stands out in my memory but damn what a landmark performance.

[El Barto]

Jack Lemmon was a badass, but it's really the latter part of his career that jumps out at me. Desperately trying to help people who won't listen to him in The China Syndrome. Shelly Levine, under pressure far beyond his ability to cope. He turned in a Juror #8 that was absolutely on par with Hank Fonda's, which probably shouldn't be possible. To me that just pushes his earlier work out of mind.

Only seen one movie with Gene Kelly, but it's one of my favorites. His E.K. Hornbeck puts a big smile on my face every time he's on screen. My kinda guy.

[Cool Chris]

Was thinking that about Lemmon but didn't write it. Not many actors peak (in my mind) at the tail end of their careers like that. Toss in Inherit the Wind with another legend George C Scott. I always preferred the elder Connery. Or you can just be solid for half a century and turn in your best performance as your last in your mid-70s a year before you die like the aforementioned Fonda.

Have I ever seen the 12 Angry Men with Lemmon? I feel like I have but couldn't swear to it.

[El Barto]

Was thinking that about Lemmon but didn't write it. Not many actors peak (in my mind) at the tail end of their careers like that. Toss in Inherit the Wind with another legend George C Scott. I always preferred the elder Connery. Or you can just be solid for half a century and turn in your best performance as your last in your mid-70s a year before you die like the aforementioned Fonda.

Have I ever seen the 12 Angry Men with Lemmon? I feel like I have but couldn't swear to it.

It was a very good HBO movie. The first of his two HBO movies with G.C. Scott at the end of their careers. Unlike their Inherit the Wind, where I thought his Matthew Harrison Brady was lacking, George brought the house down as Juror #3. The man was seething at the prospect of the kid going free, and emotionally devastated when he changed his vote. I thought he was better than Cobb. Mykelte Williamson and Edward James Olmos as the racist and the immigrant were both great.

[Cool Chris]

Not many actors seethe better than Scott. I thought Cobb was a bit over the top. Aside from Fonda, the supporting roles (Jack Warner, EG Marshall, Martin Balsam...) made that film what it is.

This thread is now about the multitude of old-timey actors better than Kirk Douglas.

[KevShmev]

I don't think I've ever seen a Kirk Douglas movie.

I still haven't seen the majority of Jack Lemmon movies, but he always struck me as one of the best.  It rarely gets mentioned, but The Great Race is a major gem.  His portrayal as the cartoonish, villainous Professor Fate is absolutely amazing.  His facial expressions alone in that film are the stuff of legends.

[Harmony]

Some Like it Hot is one of my all time favorite comedies.  But I hear what you are saying, Chris, about Lemmon's more goofy and endearing but schmaltzy early movie parts.  EB is right, you have to dive into some of his later work (aside from Grumpy Old Men of course).  Most people have seen The China Syndrome.  But few people have seen one of his most incredible works of acting in a movie call Missing from 1982.  I think he got an Oscar nomination for it.  It's dated now, but he's brilliant in it.  Trailer:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1WiQxDAeV4

[Adami]

Lots of good actors back in the day.

[El Barto]

Getting back to Kirk, rather than all of the actors he's inferior to, my brother made an excellent point about him. Douglas and Spartacus were more that just inexpressive acting. It effectively ended the Hollywood blacklist. Kirk despised McCarthy and the producers that wouldn't stand up to him. He publicly gave Trumbo the screenwriting gig and made sure his name was widely associated with Spartacus. Dude deserves some props for that, and Hollywood certainly benefited because of it.