Author Topic: Kobe Bryant died  (Read 13760 times)

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Offline T-ski

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2020, 05:58:26 PM »
Giannis has deleted his social media. 

He’s been working out with Kobe the last couple off seasons.  Obviously taking the news very hard.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2020, 07:50:26 PM »
I saw video of that fog/those conditions.   Unbelievable. 

We're getting a lot of this story, because the helicopter was a Sikorsky, and they are headquartered about an hour down the road from me.

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2020, 07:57:55 PM »
Yea the fog was pretty intense this morning.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2020, 08:14:06 PM »
I can't be bothered to read peoples' tweets about this - I generally can't be bothered to read peoples' tweets about anything, and wrote something to that effect, then realized this wasn't the thread for that and deleted it - but I did enjoy watching Kareem's video. That 1:45 was more touching and heartfelt than anything I've seen all day (granting it isn't fair to compare a video to a text).
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Offline dparrott

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2020, 10:26:00 PM »
The fog was so thick, police copters were grounded.

Based on the flight pattern shown on the news, they took off from Newport Beach, then struggled to keep going once they were over L.A.  They tried to get around the fog, but didn't make it I guess.  Police and NTSB are still investigating.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2020, 12:45:51 AM »
So sad!  My gf and I were in Glendale, CA this weekend to see Sons of Apollo play at the Roxy on the Sunset Strip Saturday night.  The next morning upon our check out from the Embassy Suites and having brunch, soon learned of the tragedy.  Such a shock to know that this happened only a few 10’s of miles from where we were.  RIP Kobe, your young daughter Gigi and 7 others.  Such a tragic loss. :(
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2020, 03:11:51 AM »
Watching an ESPN Sportsenter special on him today.  As I said, I didn't know a great deal about him other than his name and status.  Amazing athlete with such a strong mindset, seemed like a great role model for people trying to persue a career in the game and a great attitude for attacking life in general.  All the other sports stars and celebs visibly shaken up and their words of respect really shows what an icon he was.  Such an awful tragedy that seems could have been avoided.  You have to feel for his wife and other 3 children. 
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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2020, 06:50:33 AM »
The kid component of this tragedy is really getting me. His daughter and the other daughter.....I can’t imagine as a parent that final 30/45 seconds when the realization hit that they were going to crash....what’d you’d do for your child as they’d clearly be in a panic and fear. I can’t seem to stop thinking about that. It’s brutal and heartbreaking
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Offline Lonk

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2020, 07:06:37 AM »
I can't be bothered to read peoples' tweets about this - I generally can't be bothered to read peoples' tweets about anything, and wrote something to that effect, then realized this wasn't the thread for that and deleted it - but I did enjoy watching Kareem's video. That 1:45 was more touching and heartfelt than anything I've seen all day (granting it isn't fair to compare a video to a text).

The video with Doc Rivers got to me.
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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2020, 07:14:47 AM »
The kid component of this tragedy is really getting me. His daughter and the other daughter.....I can’t imagine as a parent that final 30/45 seconds when the realization hit that they were going to crash....what’d you’d do for your child as they’d clearly be in a panic and fear. I can’t seem to stop thinking about that. It’s brutal and heartbreaking

I had the same thought. Terrible.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2020, 07:26:03 AM »
I can't be bothered to read peoples' tweets about this - I generally can't be bothered to read peoples' tweets about anything, and wrote something to that effect, then realized this wasn't the thread for that and deleted it - but I did enjoy watching Kareem's video. That 1:45 was more touching and heartfelt than anything I've seen all day (granting it isn't fair to compare a video to a text).

Start another thread, then, because you're not alone.  The phrase I repeat most often in my head: "What color is the sun in your world?"

To the subject, it's hard not to reflect after events like these.  He and his daughter were just at a Uconn basketball game, and it was news, because the daughter had dreams of playing for Geno Auriemma.  He (Auriemma) is a Philly guy, Kobe is a Philly-ish guy, Uconn is probably the best women's program, if not in history, then over the past 20 years... it seemed like a match made in heaven.  Having just - more or less - just sent two daughters off into the wild, it resonates.  Whether Kobe was the greatest ever* or just another Joe Schmoe, there's a degree to which man plans, and God laughs.

* I lean towards if not the greatest - that's still probably Jordan - one of the top three.  I loved his style, I loved his game.  He was no-bullshit, no games, in a league that is increasingly a lot of bullshit and a lot of games, and he played in probably the mecca for bullshit and games.  I listened to him not long ago explain the idea of "Black Mamba" on, of all places, Ridiculousness, and it's really hard to not be impressed with his work ethic and his tenacity. That sometimes got him in trouble, but over all I think that was an admirable trait for him.

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2020, 07:30:46 AM »
I was at the Spurs game and it was surreal. A lot of people didn't know about the accident. My wife got a notification when we were driving from Austin to the game. A lot of people were talking about the event at the lines waiting to enter the arena. When the lights went out and the Kobe image appeared on the board, there were a lot of gasps and "oh nos" and "whats!". Duncan, Hammon and Popovich where in tears during the tribute.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2020, 07:58:41 AM »
What's the deal with the "shot clock" tribute. I've heard this a couple times now.  What, each team let's the shot clock run down out of respect for Kobe?  That's kind of cool, if you ask me. Kind of gives a subtle nod to his impact on the game, but recognizing that it IS a game and a life in it's prime out of basketball - nine lives, actually - was just lost. 

Offline axeman90210

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2020, 08:00:25 AM »
Yeah, the shot clock in the NBA is 24 seconds and he wore number 24 so it lined up well.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2020, 08:29:48 AM »
great attitude for attacking life in general

That is an interesting (but unintentional, give that you don't really know his history) choice of words!

He raped a girl in 2003, and when she reported it, she was intimidated, bullied and traduced by his legal team out of testifying or continuing on with the criminal complaint (they publicized her name and sexual history, and Kobe/Laker fans made her life living hell).  They settled, he admitted it, and this case is why Colorado significantly strengthened their "rape shield" laws, protecting victims.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2020, 08:36:28 AM »
The kid component of this tragedy is really getting me. His daughter and the other daughter.....I can’t imagine as a parent that final 30/45 seconds when the realization hit that they were going to crash....what’d you’d do for your child as they’d clearly be in a panic and fear. I can’t seem to stop thinking about that. It’s brutal and heartbreaking

it is, but based on the the description I saw of it by an eye witness (older guy who seemed really smart and knew his stuff), it sounds like the pilot did not know the hill was there and flew into it, so it is likely that death was nearly instantaneous for everyone, which is all you can hope for, that way no one suffered.

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2020, 08:44:10 AM »
great attitude for attacking life in general

That is an interesting (but unintentional, give that you don't really know his history) choice of words!

He raped a girl in 2003, and when she reported it, she was intimidated, bullied and traduced by his legal team out of testifying or continuing on with the criminal complaint (they publicized her name and sexual history, and Kobe/Laker fans made her life living hell).  They settled, he admitted it, and this case is why Colorado significantly strengthened their "rape shield" laws, protecting victims.

Yea, the whole rape thing was pretty bad.  It seems no one is talking about this, and I guess part of the reason why is because he seemed to be a much better human since then, but I don't really know.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2020, 08:48:36 AM »
I needed a place to put down my thoughts. Hope you all don't mind.

First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers with the Bryant family and their close friends. The loss of so many lives, including those young kids, it's just horrible.

I remember watching Kobe his rookie year. At least I think it was his rookie year in the 96/97 season. The Lakers were playing Utah (again, memory fuzzy, but I could swear it was them). Kobe came off the bench, and played hero ball. Totally took over. And you can see his teammates standing around like "WTF?" At the time, I was appalled. I mean, this punk ass kid, showing up everyone and ballin' out. Sure, he was talented, but that was ridiculous. I remember thinking he should ride the pine after that. And low and behold, he did. I think he was benched the next game as a punishment and as a lesson. But you could tell there was something special about that kid.

The next time I remember seeing him, and I can't recall the opponent, he was still a rookie. I think it was a playoff game, again against the Jazz, and he shot like shit and airballed. He only played a few minutes, and I recall saying something to the effect of "this kid better learn some humility, because he's going to be shit unless he figures out how to play within a team." Well, we all know that Kobe did indeed figure it out. I loved watching him play basketball, particularly as he grew older. He had that knack that only Jordan had -- you knew he could score anywhere, at any time, and played rope-a-dope early on, toying with the opponent and just feeling it out, setting up guys and making everyone better. And then, like Jordan, he took over. And you knew if he got on that roll, you were screwed.

When the news came out about him cheating on his wife, and the unclear story whether it was consensual or non-consensual, I really lost a lot of respect for Kobe Bryant. His wife Vanessa, I thought was weak for forgiving him. And I thought that she did herself a disservice because of Kobe's wallet, and she wanted to live a lifestyle at the expense of her integrity. It really bothered me, and I remembering checking out of the Kobe fandom after that. But as he grew older, had children of his own, and matured, I noticed that Kobe seemed (at least in the public eye, and not knowing him or anyone he knows at all) particularly focused on being a good husband, and later, father. He made big strides to almost live every day realizing what a huge mistake he made, and seemed to try and make sure he earned the forgiveness from his family. He took it to another level with his daughters (again, at least what you can see in public). As a father, as a coach, everything. He seemed to live every day continually trying to be the best father and family man he could. And while I don't know him, my thoughts shifted, thinking that unlike a lot of famous people who get caught doing something wrong, and pay lip service with fake apologies, that Kobe truly did realize what an idiot he was, and lived a life repenting from his infidelity. It just FELT like that to me. I could be way off. But he matured, and realized he should spend the rest of his life showing the right example to his daughters. I respected that.

During his last game, while it was overly indulgent, I saw that maturity. Kobe wasn't looking to score 60. His teammates were making him shoot. And while he missed a boatload of shots, given all the injuries he had, it was an amazing performance. I thought the "Mamba Out" mic drop was dumb, but overall, watching that maturity of Kobe over the years, I really came to appreciate his dedication to his work, his devotion and repentance to his family.

As the father of a young girl myself, yesterday made me bawl like a baby. All those children on that helicopter, gone. And now all those families suffering. I feel that in any similar situation, but obviously the high profile Bryant family and the spotlight on it just deepened the sadness. Hug your kids folks. And if you haven't been a great parent or spouse - be one. Because it isn't about always getting it right. It's about the effort to be a better parent and spouse and how much you care. That's what's remembered when you're gone.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2020, 08:52:07 AM »
great attitude for attacking life in general

That is an interesting (but unintentional, give that you don't really know his history) choice of words!

He raped a girl in 2003, and when she reported it, she was intimidated, bullied and traduced by his legal team out of testifying or continuing on with the criminal complaint (they publicized her name and sexual history, and Kobe/Laker fans made her life living hell).  They settled, he admitted it, and this case is why Colorado significantly strengthened their "rape shield" laws, protecting victims.

Yea, the whole rape thing was pretty bad.  It seems no one is talking about this, and I guess part of the reason why is because he seemed to be a much better human since then, but I don't really know.

It seems like women who dare mention it on Twitter are getting threatened.  Because of course they fucking are.  :-\  There are some outlets that are broaching it head-on, some that glancingly acknowledge it (in such a way to downplay it), and some engaged in full-on hagiography.  That whole shitshow was a significant contributor to why women don't report (especially when a rich/famous/powerful man is involved).  Redemption is a weird thing in all of this...he has done a lot of good since then, but what he did (and what his lawyers did on his behalf) was horrifying.  I think we just have to hold both thoughts at the same time...he did some great things, some terrible things, he was a complex human being.  Neither side can or should be erased, and both should be fully acknowledged.  Every time an outlet glosses over or ignores the sexual assault, it's further erasure of victims, and a further entrenchment of the idea that a rich/powerful man can make anything go away, even in death.

EDIT:  A female WaPo reporter simply tweeted an article about the rape, got 10,000 death/abuse threats...and was put on administrative leave for "violation social media policy" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7932771/Journalist-suspended-tweeting-link-story-Kobe-Bryants-rape-case-2003.html
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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2020, 09:06:06 AM »
The fact that several kids died is what makes this a tragedy. Kobe was a great basketball player (one of the best ever) but his death is not why this is sad to me. Dude did some good things after the rape but he's still a rapist.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2020, 09:09:27 AM »


It seems like women who dare mention it on Twitter are getting threatened.  Because of course they fucking are.  :-\  There are some outlets that are broaching it head-on, some that glancingly acknowledge it (in such a way to downplay it), and some engaged in full-on hagiography.  That whole shitshow was a significant contributor to why women don't report (especially when a rich/famous/powerful man is involved).  Redemption is a weird thing in all of this...he has done a lot of good since then, but what he did (and what his lawyers did on his behalf) was horrifying.  I think we just have to hold both thoughts at the same time...he did some great things, some terrible things, he was a complex human being.  Neither side can or should be erased, and both should be fully acknowledged.  Every time an outlet glosses over or ignores the sexual assault, it's further erasure of victims, and a further entrenchment of the idea that a rich/powerful man can make anything go away, even in death.

While I agree in spirit, it hasn't even been 24 hours.  I don't think it's the right time to bring it up.  Heck, I was never a fan of his at all, but it just feels like having that conversation while his body is still warm is a bit unseemly, especially since 8 others lost their lives as well.  Maybe I am wrong.

Besides, Twitter is a sewer.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2020, 09:15:41 AM »
Well, we pretty clearly established here in the past couple weeks that there's no place for anything less than gushing admiration for our deceased heroes.  I know I wasn't going to mention it outright on a bet (though I put language in that one could conclude alluded to it, without being too overt or controversial). 

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2020, 09:15:45 AM »
The fact that several kids died is what makes this a tragedy. Kobe was a great basketball player (one of the best ever) but his death is not why this is sad to me. Dude did some good things after the rape but he's still a rapist.

This is what I was just typing and my sentiments exactly. These kids dying so young in that fashion is what is brutal about this. Kobe, the Coach and his wife and the other adults dying is horrible also....but at least they had the opportunity to live some life....these kids passing is just tough to think about.

IMO it's pretty frightening that his past history that involves raping and then threatening a woman to the point of the law suit being settled out of court is being brushed aside and largely ignored by the media just because he died tragically. I completely believe in redemption and forgiveness and it appears that the man had made it a mission to 'go good' ever since the rape allegations and aftermath. And maybe this is a case of a lot of people not wanting to speak ill of the dead...but the magnitude of the allegations and his all but admittance to them shouldn't be hidden just because it's inconvenient to this 'hero' story going on now.

 
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Offline millahh

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2020, 09:21:09 AM »


It seems like women who dare mention it on Twitter are getting threatened.  Because of course they fucking are.  :-\  There are some outlets that are broaching it head-on, some that glancingly acknowledge it (in such a way to downplay it), and some engaged in full-on hagiography.  That whole shitshow was a significant contributor to why women don't report (especially when a rich/famous/powerful man is involved).  Redemption is a weird thing in all of this...he has done a lot of good since then, but what he did (and what his lawyers did on his behalf) was horrifying.  I think we just have to hold both thoughts at the same time...he did some great things, some terrible things, he was a complex human being.  Neither side can or should be erased, and both should be fully acknowledged.  Every time an outlet glosses over or ignores the sexual assault, it's further erasure of victims, and a further entrenchment of the idea that a rich/powerful man can make anything go away, even in death.

While I agree in spirit, it hasn't even been 24 hours.  I don't think it's the right time to bring it up.  Heck, I was never a fan of his at all, but it just feels like having that conversation while his body is still warm is a bit unseemly, especially since 8 others lost their lives as well.  Maybe I am wrong.

Besides, Twitter is a sewer.

I sort of understand the reflex to say it's not the right time, but that raises the question of when the right time is?  in a week, it's not the right time because of the funeral.  In two weeks, it's not the right time because it should have been brought up before and now the matter has gotten "cold".  Ignoring it yesterday/today/tomorrow just reinforces the idea that victims can be erased...and my sympathies lie much more with victims (both the direct victim, and every other woman who was influenced not not report by what was done to KB's victim) than with KB's legacy.  Deferring it just reinforces rape culture.

I am of course not saying her deserved to die, that the loss of his daughter is not heart-rendingly tragic, that the destruction of the family isn't heartbreaking, and there were many other lives shattered. It's just the we can *(and need to) hold these thoughts in our head simultaneously.
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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2020, 09:30:50 AM »
I don't see why people can't talk about it.  He wasn't perfect, no one is.  Painting that picture is false.  We should be honest here. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2020, 09:39:21 AM »
And I can't help but think that if he weren't such a popular guy for his play then the rape would be the first thing people had to say about it. If it were OJ would people's first reaction be to think of his family, or to comment on the murders? I certainly don't think a "burn in hell mother fucker!" is appropriate in either case, but it would certainly be a lot of people's first reaction if he were somebody without Kobe's celebrity. As Millah said, people need to be able to hold both the good and the bad in their thoughts. Sadly, that's not something many people are willing and/or able to do. In this Kobe's game gets him a pass.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2020, 09:41:02 AM »
I don't have a problem with people talking about. I just don't think it's fair to concentrate on just that when 1) that case was "resolved" over a decade ago and 2) and some have pointed out, he tried very hard afterwards to prove he could be a good father/husband/mentor/coach.
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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2020, 09:50:03 AM »
Not a fan of his, was never a fan...I stopped watching the NBA a long, long time ago, since I prefer college basketball.  He isn't the first celebrity to be killed in an air accident and won't be the last, but it's incredibly scary and horrific to imagine now that I have kids.

Offline Evermind

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2020, 09:54:09 AM »
As long as you don't fly on helicopters, you're good.
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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2020, 09:59:22 AM »
As long as you don't fly on helicopters, you're good.

Someone in the US is killed in a car accident every 14 minutes.

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2020, 10:04:39 AM »
As long as you don't fly on helicopters, you're good.

More specifically, as long as you don't fly when everyone else says not to due to the weather.  It feels this could have been avoided which makes it so much worse.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2020, 10:16:48 AM »
It's debatable as to whether or not choppers are safer than cars. It's a hard comparison to make. In his case he was probably safer in the air, though. A simple point A to point B flight with a presumably qualified pilot and well maintained AC. I'll be interested to know if they filed and IFR flight plan, which should have been reasonably safe, or if they were simply winging it VFR, which would have been foolhardy, to say the least.
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Offline Evermind

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2020, 10:19:42 AM »
As long as you don't fly on helicopters, you're good.

Someone in the US is killed in a car accident every 14 minutes.

I design parts of helicopters as my job so that was a feeble attempt at a halfhearted joke. Should've probably posted it in green.

Car accidents are indeed way worse if we're talking mortality rates.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2020, 10:29:09 AM »
As long as you don't fly on helicopters, you're good.

More specifically, as long as you don't fly when everyone else says not to due to the weather.  It feels this could have been avoided which makes it so much worse.

I really hope he didn't demand the pilot to fly in that weather to get them to the game.

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Kobe Bryant died
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2020, 10:38:26 AM »
As long as you don't fly on helicopters, you're good.

More specifically, as long as you don't fly when everyone else says not to due to the weather.  It feels this could have been avoided which makes it so much worse.

I really hope he didn't demand the pilot to fly in that weather to get them to the game.
That's still on the pilot. And if I've got Koby Briant's money and I'm interviewing pilots, one of the first things I'm looking for is a willingness to tell me to fuck off if the situation commands it. I've seen nothing that leads me to believe the decision to fly was a mistake. While the fog certainly added complexity to the flight, a functioning nav system and good IFR skills should have made the flight reasonably safe.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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