Coronavirus

[ariich]

You can still catch COVID after being vaccinated.

Well, yeah, you can.  But the odds are miniscule.  And the odds of getting really sick are even more miniscule.

The latter is correct, and is the most important thing.

The former isn't quite right, the chances of catching it are low but not miniscule, and some of the variants seem to have a higher chance of being caught even when vaccinated.

So I do understand why some people want to be cautious and considerate to others who aren't vaccinated, by wearing masks or whatever else.

[Ben_Jamin]

You can still catch COVID after being vaccinated.

Well, yeah, you can.  But the odds are miniscule.  And the odds of getting really sick are even more miniscule.

The latter is correct, and is the most important thing.

The former isn't quite right, the chances of catching it are low but not miniscule, and some of the variants seem to have a higher chance of being caught even when vaccinated.

So I do understand why some people want to be cautious and considerate to others who aren't vaccinated, by wearing masks or whatever else.

The thing is though. The only ones that should be wearing masks, are the ones who are not vaccinated, because that helps lower their risks of catching it. It's why people whom are vaccinated can go without a mask, because their risk of a severe symptom is lower if they catch it.

It's nice people are considerate, but a person who is unvaccinated may not want to infringe on a vaccinated person from not wearing a mask and going on with life without one on. So, you are only doing yourself a disservice by choosing to continue to wear a mask and being over-considerate. As the science says, the vaccinated should be fine if they do catch the Covid-19 coronavirus.

It is now a personal concern, more so than a concern the government should get involved in. Just because people liked the comforts of masks doesn't mean it should be mandated. Businesses are concerned for their employees, and that is their discretion. It is now up to the personal concern of the person and business. The only concern, of the government, should be keeping the order and peace, and being there in times of need.

These are easing off on the measures the US government took to stop the pandemic from being an emergency and of a grand concern. And all governments have their own concern for their own people, and some are actually still in an emergency pandemic. And only that government has the decision to do whatever they feel is right and beneficial for their own people. That's basically sovereignty.

[XeRocks81]

So, you are only doing yourself a disservice by choosing to continue to wear a mask and being over-considerate.

seriously read this again and think it over, you can’t possibly think that. 

[gmillerdrake]

and some of the variants seem to have a higher chance of being caught even when vaccinated.

But this has never been about 'if' you'd catch it or not. It's always been about not overwhelming the hospitals with the patients that are high risk so they can receive the care they need. The states that have 'opened up' have had great success with low hospitalizations and low positivity rates. We are at the point now that we are not going to overwhelm the hospitals and the vast majority of the population is going to survive Covid if they catch it. People who are vaccinated may catch it and not even know it.

While it's certainly not the end by any means......we are at a point that the tide has turned and the risks of 'opening up' aren't what they were 4-6 months ago.

[jingle.boy]

Don't get me wrong, I hope with all hope (I'm not exactly the praying type) that the new normal with COVID is same/similar to influenza.  A few 10s of thousands of deaths per year of people in (high) risk categories.  I don't mean to sound callous in typing that, but I think that's a best case long term scenario.

I hope that this isn't the kind of virus that is a stubborn MF, and results in a few 100s of thousands of deaths a year.

[Ben_Jamin]

So, you are only doing yourself a disservice by choosing to continue to wear a mask and being over-considerate.

seriously read this again and think it over, you can’t possibly think that.

That's according to the CDC at this point.

I am not shunning those people whom are going to the lengths to be extra considerate when they don't need to be. I don't care what they do, but great for them if they are being that considerate.

I won't go to that length. But I am considerate enough to try and cough or sneeze into my sleeve or arm. Which does prevent those germs from flying all over the room. I do wash my hands constantly when I go to the restroom, or when I touch something that might be contaminated, I am not out there just picking up random stuff from the ground without a glove. I have always done this when I go out, and have not had any illnesses where I would be stuck in bed.

Don't get me wrong, I hope with all hope (I'm not exactly the praying type) that the new normal with COVID is same/similar to influenza.  A few 10s of thousands of deaths per year of people in (high) risk categories.  I don't mean to sound callous in typing that, but I think that's a best case long term scenario.

I hope that this isn't the kind of virus that is a stubborn MF, and results in a few 100s of thousands of deaths a year.

It'll be unfortunate if that happens. But in the long-term, we have to look at ourselves and what we are doing that is proven to help us not be as susceptible to these severe diseases and illnesses. That is, if one cares about dying from it at all. And being considerate of others as well, and not being an egotistical ass and going out and coughing, licking, putting your nasty ass, on things or people, and where people gather and touch.

I hope as well though, that the risk becomes small enough to not be a concern for emergency and people can go on and live their lives without as much worry.

[ariich]

and some of the variants seem to have a higher chance of being caught even when vaccinated.

But this has never been about 'if' you'd catch it or not. It's always been about not overwhelming the hospitals with the patients that are high risk so they can receive the care they need. The states that have 'opened up' have had great success with low hospitalizations and low positivity rates. We are at the point now that we are not going to overwhelm the hospitals and the vast majority of the population is going to survive Covid if they catch it. People who are vaccinated may catch it and not even know it.

While it's certainly not the end by any means......we are at a point that the tide has turned and the risks of 'opening up' aren't what they were 4-6 months ago.

Sure, I agree with all that and I support the easing of restrictions we're seeing in our countries. I was just talking about mask wearing. Given that there's a reasonable chance a vaccinated person can still catch and transmit COVID, while it might not make them particularly unwell, they could infect someone unvaccinated. So to me, it makes sense to at least keep wearing masks until everyone who wants the vaccine has received it (or at least received the first dose). Once at that point, it pretty much becomes a matter of personal choice.

The UK is getting towards that point in our vaccine rollout - we're doing it by age and nationally we're down to 30 year olds now so it's probably just a few more weeks until all adults have been invited for their jab. And take-up has generally been strong.

Anti-vaxxer sentiments and vaccine scepticism are higher in the US, so it's possible some areas/states are already at that point.

[King Postwhore]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

[MirrorMask]

I have my appointment! On the sixth of June, at 16:00.

6 - 6 - (1)6, the vaccine of the Beast 

[Stadler]

It is unfortunate, but people will make their own choices about the risks they are willing to take.  The best we can do is make choices for ourselves to minimize OUR risks and protect those who don't have those same choices (children, immunocompromised) the way that we always have.

Other than the "unfortunate" part, this is exactly how I feel.

Well, that is taken out of the context of what I was saying.  I do feel it is unfortunate that people do not see the benefits of vaccines and that people do not care about concepts like herd immunity and putting a strain on healthcare systems with diseases that are entirely preventable.  Yes, we can go down the rabbit hole about preventative measures that people make choices about all the time (alcohol for example is a known carcinogen, yet many choose to take that risk, myself included) but the fact that we don't have small pox running rampant is thanks to vaccines.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't ultimately be in charge of their health choices.

I only excluded it because I didn't quite know how to take it.  Yes, it is unfortunate that people don't see the bigger picture sometimes.  I feel that, often.     (I'm not referring to you or anything specific here, just a general gripe!)

[Stadler]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

Honestly, I think it would have happened quicker (which would have had it's own problems).   That was the basket all the eggs were in from day one, pretty much.  The "miracle cure". 

[Stadler]

So, you are only doing yourself a disservice by choosing to continue to wear a mask and being over-considerate.

seriously read this again and think it over, you can’t possibly think that.

Why can't he?  I can think of a couple reasons why someone might posit that wearing a mask when you don't have to would have negative consequences.   One, the perpetuation of fear where fear isn't justified in the bigger picture.  Two, we don't want to perpetuate the thought of "well, if I still have to quarantine, I still have to wear a mask, and I still have to social distance, why SHOULD I get the vaccine and add that risk to the pile?" We know for a fact, from Fauci's mouth directly, that the CDC mask policy was at least in part a social behavior exercise, not a medical one.  Doesn't mean it's the BEST course of action, but you don't get to decide what he should think. 

I know for me, I'm headed down the path of making the mask an active part of the conversation.  Have it with me, have it visible, but put it aside if the people I'm dealing with are vaccinated and comfortable with removing them.   I'm certainly going to minimize the time I'm wearing it when there's no discernable benefit to me or those around me.

[XeRocks81]

being over considerate is doing a disservice to yourself. 

that’s what I was responding to because it stuck out like a slap in the face and (imo) it’s just plain wrong.  Of course he’s free to think whatever he likes that’s not the point. 

[King Postwhore]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

Honestly, I think it would have happened quicker (which would have had it's own problems).   That was the basket all the eggs were in from day one, pretty much.  The "miracle cure".

Well, when you have the rhetoric from the past administration it leads to pessimism.

[hunnus2000]

I have my appointment! On the sixth of June, at 16:00.

6 - 6 - (1)6, the vaccine of the Beast 

 

Go Beast!!

[Ben_Jamin]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

Honestly, I think it would have happened quicker (which would have had it's own problems).   That was the basket all the eggs were in from day one, pretty much.  The "miracle cure".

Well, when you have the rhetoric from the past administration it leads to pessimism.

That Harris didn't even Trust Trump, and now suddenly when Bidne is in office it's Trust Biden...

https://youtu.be/_feSqSO3YUg

[Stadler]

being over considerate is doing a disservice to yourself. 

that’s what I was responding to because it stuck out like a slap in the face and (imo) it’s just plain wrong.  Of course he’s free to think whatever he likes that’s not the point.

It kind of is the point, though.   If you had said "Well, I certainly understand that, but I disagree", I'd have let this go, but you apparently are baffled by the very thought that "over-consideration" could possibly be against an individuals' best interest (thought I'll note, you're still casting judgement ("it's just plain wrong")).   What is "over-consideration" other than putting others' interests exceedingly ahead of your own?  Of course that can result in a disservice to self, and sometimes to others.   Much of your political position is seemingly PREDICATED on that idea.  That's the essence of "intolerance of intolerance", basically.  "I'M offended, therefore everyone else needs to act/think differently even if it infringes on their fundamental rights, because if I tolerate that - if I'm over-considerate of that - I'm doing myself an insurmountable disservice".   And don't get me started on the concept of "my truth". 

[King Postwhore]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

Honestly, I think it would have happened quicker (which would have had it's own problems).   That was the basket all the eggs were in from day one, pretty much.  The "miracle cure".

Well, when you have the rhetoric from the past administration it leads to pessimism.

That Harris didn't even Trust Trump, and now suddenly when Bidne is in office it's Trust Biden...

https://youtu.be/_feSqSO3YUg

Sure, That was all about the vaccine and not about 2 sides of the government attacking each other during the election.  Ben, make an educated guess knowing what's good for you and not.  You always preach about well being, health which is 100% true and needed but also trust that the CDC has our best interest.  Not politicians. 

BTW, did you try the bleach or did you figure out on your own, it was the worst thing a politician could say for those how are afraid of medications?

[Ben_Jamin]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

Honestly, I think it would have happened quicker (which would have had it's own problems).   That was the basket all the eggs were in from day one, pretty much.  The "miracle cure".

Well, when you have the rhetoric from the past administration it leads to pessimism.

That Harris didn't even Trust Trump, and now suddenly when Bidne is in office it's Trust Biden...

https://youtu.be/_feSqSO3YUg

Sure, That was all about the vaccine and not about 2 sides of the government attacking each other during the election.  Ben, make an educated guess knowing what's good for you and not.  You always preach about well being, health which is 100% true and needed but also trust that the CDC has our best interest.  Not politicians. 

BTW, did you try the bleach or did you figure out on your own, it was the worst thing a politician could say for those how are afraid of medications?

Hydroxychloroquine....isn't a bleach. It's a malaria drug, and it's used for Rheumatoid Arthritis, and Lupus. But, if you want to believe the media that says it's bleach then be my guest.

This information can easily be looked up on any search engine. I use duckduckgo, and I look up the Medical sites like WebMD and Mayo Clinic for information related to anything drug related.

And also, then that means it wasn't about the virus, but the election. Because why would you spew this kind of rhetoric during an emergency pandemic? Just because the guy you don't like is doing things that will help people.

What if Trump won, and got elected, would they still be screaming distrust in taking the vaccines Trump initiated?

[Ben_Jamin]

being over considerate is doing a disservice to yourself. 

that’s what I was responding to because it stuck out like a slap in the face and (imo) it’s just plain wrong.  Of course he’s free to think whatever he likes that’s not the point.

It kind of is the point, though.   If you had said "Well, I certainly understand that, but I disagree", I'd have let this go, but you apparently are baffled by the very thought that "over-consideration" could possibly be against an individuals' best interest (thought I'll note, you're still casting judgement ("it's just plain wrong")).   What is "over-consideration" other than putting others' interests exceedingly ahead of your own?  Of course that can result in a disservice to self, and sometimes to others.   Much of your political position is seemingly PREDICATED on that idea.  That's the essence of "intolerance of intolerance", basically.  "I'M offended, therefore everyone else needs to act/think differently even if it infringes on their fundamental rights, because if I tolerate that - if I'm over-considerate of that - I'm doing myself an insurmountable disservice".   And don't get me started on the concept of "my truth".

This is precisely the point of that phrase. People are doing this now, with how they're taking it upon themselves to continue to mask. When the science and data shows that you don't have to if your Vaccinated.

That's being over-considerate, especially if they're doing outside when it's hot and humid and are running...

[Harmony]

I have no problem if someone wants to be "overly-considerate."  I feel I often fall into that category myself in general.

For me the problem is when masking is presented as being considerate of others when really it is about virtue signaling to the tribe.  I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, but I have read elsewhere on social media many many times this notion that, "I will keep wearing the mask because I don't want anyone else to think I'm a republican (or anti-mask or anti-vaccine)."

[ariich]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

The UK's has actually been slightly faster, in terms of doses administered per head. Different strategies though (UK has an 8-12 week gap between doses whereas US has stuck with around 3 weeks), meaning UK has given at least one dose to a lot more of its population, but US has more of its population fully vaccinated.

I think if the US has been following an age-based strategy and is already offering it to teenagers, that's probably more a reflection of the proportion of people not taking it up. Take-up rates in the UK have been very high, especially among the older and more vulnerable demographics.

[King Postwhore]

I find it hard to believe you did not see the rhetoric Trump at the time and how nonchalant they were originally with covid?  BTW, Trump did say bleach.  I'm also an Independent that leans Republican but not in this instance.  Trump wasn't talking about Hydroxchloroquine.  This is what Trump said.

Trump spoke about the role he thought disinfectants could play in tackling an infection caused by the virus during a now infamous April 23 briefing.

Disinfectants.  So of course, the other side would try to take advantage of that.  This actually is the problem right now with our government.  They'd rather sling dirt at the other side for their own betterment than work together for their constituents, us. 

I also think both sides have done a poor job all together and this is just one incident.  Though I can say that the Dems have done a better job in the rollout of the vaccine. 

[King Postwhore]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

The UK's has actually been slightly faster, in terms of doses administered per head. Different strategies though (UK has an 8-12 week gap between doses whereas US has stuck with around 3 weeks), meaning UK has given at least one dose to a lot more of its population, but US has more of its population fully vaccinated.

I think if the US has been following an age-based strategy and is already offering it to teenagers, that's probably more a reflection of the proportion of people not taking it up. Take-up rates in the UK have been very high, especially among the older and more vulnerable demographics.

I didn't know about the longer gap between shots.  Why did it happen that way in GB?

[bosk1]

Let's keep the politics where they belong, please.  Since we are talking about the vaccine rollout, suffice it to say, it was the Trump administration that got Operation: Warpspeed up and running in the first place, and once we had the vaccines in place, it was the Biden administration that took the reins and found ways to ratchet up distribution in other ways.  We can quibble over the fact that both parties and administrations made serious missteps that created big problems, and we can argue about which we believe are worse.  But that doesn't really get us anywhere, so let's leave that to the P/R section. 

[jingle.boy]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

The UK's has actually been slightly faster, in terms of doses administered per head. Different strategies though (UK has an 8-12 week gap between doses whereas US has stuck with around 3 weeks), meaning UK has given at least one dose to a lot more of its population, but US has more of its population fully vaccinated.

I think if the US has been following an age-based strategy and is already offering it to teenagers, that's probably more a reflection of the proportion of people not taking it up. Take-up rates in the UK have been very high, especially among the older and more vulnerable demographics.

I didn't know about the longer gap between shots.  Why did it happen that way in GB?

Scarcity of supply, and the notion that more people with one shot was better than fewer people with two shots. Same philosophy we’ve got in Canada.

[cramx3]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, regardless of the mistakes made, it's a medical and logistical miracle that the US and UK are where they are today.  As an American, I have a lot of things to be grateful for to be able to have a "normal" Memorial Day weekend.

I'm seeing my college roommate this weekend who I haven't seen in 1.5 years, going on a date, going to a family bbq, got a few live stream concerts over a 4 day weekend, I can't remember the last time having so much going on and the masks can come off! 

[King Postwhore]

I knew of the lack of supplies with the J&J snafu but i never read on any issue in GB.  I'll assume I wasn't looking hard enough.  Very interesting.

[Stadler]

I have no problem if someone wants to be "overly-considerate."  I feel I often fall into that category myself in general.

For me the problem is when masking is presented as being considerate of others when really it is about virtue signaling to the tribe.  I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, but I have read elsewhere on social media many many times this notion that, "I will keep wearing the mask because I don't want anyone else to think I'm a republican (or anti-mask or anti-vaccine)."

I've copped to that, more or less.  Maybe not those actual labels, but certainly "stupid" or "deplorable".   I'm very sensitive to that outside of here. 

I'm also with you on "over-considerate"; I'm the guy that will pick up a grocery that's in the wrong spot and bring it back to where it belongs in the supermarket (true story; my wife laughs at me for that).  I was just pointing out that like most things in this world, it's not always without cost.

[ariich]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

The UK's has actually been slightly faster, in terms of doses administered per head. Different strategies though (UK has an 8-12 week gap between doses whereas US has stuck with around 3 weeks), meaning UK has given at least one dose to a lot more of its population, but US has more of its population fully vaccinated.

I think if the US has been following an age-based strategy and is already offering it to teenagers, that's probably more a reflection of the proportion of people not taking it up. Take-up rates in the UK have been very high, especially among the older and more vulnerable demographics.

I didn't know about the longer gap between shots.  Why did it happen that way in GB?

Scarcity of supply, and the notion that more people with one shot was better than fewer people with two shots. Same philosophy we’ve got in Canada.

Well, sort of. The supply has been ok, but there's also the practicalities of being able to administer so many shots at a time. But yes, a large part of the rationale was absolutely that the first shot gives most of the protection, so they prioritised getting first shots to the more vulnerable groups (over 50s, people with health conditions, and health and care workers) as quickly as possible.

At that time, there were also early indications that the AstraZeneca vaccine may be more effective with a longer gap (up to 12 weeks) between shots than 3-4 weeks. This has since been confirmed with fuller research, and it's also been found to be the case with the Pfizer one too. A bit of luck on the part of the UK but it's worked out well.

[Skeever]

I'm at a bit of a crossroads right now because work have decided they're bringing us all back. But since it's not "over", and there are tons of restrictions still at play, I'm not sure that they've made the right decision. Plus, the school districts are still being very noncommittal about what next year will look like. People are barely hanging on working from home while their kids are doing class virtually in many cases. Now switching school to in-person but doing so in a way where the hours are weird or truncated in some way... I don't see how that helps parents at all. Can't help but think it'll mean more people leaving the workforce in the end because they have no choice.

[kirksnosehair]

The transition periods tend to be a shit show.  Transitioning from normal life to pandemic life took a couple of months for things to start running smoothly and I think transitioning back out of the pandemic will be just as topsy-turvy for a couple of months then things will smooth out and this will become a series of "outbreaks" confined to regional areas. 


We'll probably spike back up in the fall and early winter but hopefully enough people will be vaccinated by then to mitigate it to the point of nuisance rather than catastrophe like we've had over the last 15 months


Time will tell 

[darkshade]

We are down to 12 & 15 years old in the States. That's why the lighter restrictions on masks right now. The rollout here was slightly quicker than other countries.

Which I wonder if it would have happened so quickly if the Republicans were in power still?

Honestly, I think it would have happened quicker (which would have had it's own problems).   That was the basket all the eggs were in from day one, pretty much.  The "miracle cure".

Well, when you have the rhetoric from the past administration it leads to pessimism.

That Harris didn't even Trust Trump, and now suddenly when Bidne is in office it's Trust Biden...

https://youtu.be/_feSqSO3YUg

Sure, That was all about the vaccine and not about 2 sides of the government attacking each other during the election.  Ben, make an educated guess knowing what's good for you and not.  You always preach about well being, health which is 100% true and needed but also trust that the CDC has our best interest.  Not politicians. 

BTW, did you try the bleach or did you figure out on your own, it was the worst thing a politician could say for those how are afraid of medications?

Issues of credibility come up when you recite media falsehoods like bleach injections.

[darkshade]

Let's keep the politics where they belong, please.  Since we are talking about the vaccine rollout, suffice it to say, it was the Trump administration that got Operation: Warpspeed up and running in the first place, and once we had the vaccines in place, it was the Biden administration that took the reins and found ways to ratchet up distribution in other ways.  We can quibble over the fact that both parties and administrations made serious missteps that created big problems, and we can argue about which we believe are worse.  But that doesn't really get us anywhere, so let's leave that to the P/R section.

but why would the Trump admin and the current installed one both push vaccines when other treatments are available?
No need for a response. $$$$

[darkshade]

The transition periods tend to be a shit show.  Transitioning from normal life to pandemic life took a couple of months for things to start running smoothly and I think transitioning back out of the pandemic will be just as topsy-turvy for a couple of months then things will smooth out and this will become a series of "outbreaks" confined to regional areas. 


We'll probably spike back up in the fall and early winter but hopefully enough people will be vaccinated by then to mitigate it to the point of nuisance rather than catastrophe like we've had over the last 15 months


Time will tell

I think there are more Americans with natural Immunity that happened to coincide with mass pharma injections.