Coronavirus

[Adami]

Wait, I think he is trying to imply that a 99% survival rate is a POSITIVE thing? This is either some kind of troll or someone you simply cannot argue with.

How is it not positive?

You are right though. I'm just posting my opinions. I have no desire to argue.

I have no idea if you mean world-wide or just America? But apparently it's a 1-2% mortality rate, which...worldwide, would be a bit more than 150,000,000 dead.

Let's not get too hung up on %

I'm pro abortion. Never really had that "all life is precious" mindset.

I have no idea how that at all relates to what we're discussing? Unless think your disregard for life is more important than other people's regard for their lives?

[The Walrus]

Wait, I think he is trying to imply that a 99% survival rate is a POSITIVE thing? This is either some kind of troll or someone you simply cannot argue with.

How is it not positive?

You are right though. I'm just posting my opinions. I have no desire to argue.

I have no idea if you mean world-wide or just America? But apparently it's a 1-2% mortality rate, which...worldwide, would be a bit more than 150,000,000 dead.

Let's not get too hung up on %

I'm pro abortion. Never really had that "all life is precious" mindset.

I'm pro abortion as well but that is irrelevant; I'm not selfish enough to make this all about me and act oblivious to the fact that wearing a mask does, surprisingly, help to some degree when dealing with respiratory disease

[Indiscipline]

I wear a mask in public because I'm extremely afraid I could damage other people.

I'm a bit puzzled by seeing fear of wearing a mask topping fear of hurting your neighbour.

[Adami]

I wear a mask in public because I'm extremely afraid I could damage other people.

I'm a bit puzzled by seeing fear of wearing a mask topping fear of hurting your neighbour.

It doesn't sound like fear of wearing a mask. It just sounds like "I don't wanna and you can't make me" kind of attitude.

[lordxizor]

At a base level, I agree with ZKX's basic point. We all evaluate the risks of life around us and make our own choices of what precautions to take on a daily basis. This is nothing new and for the most part I agree it should be on each individual to choose their own risk tolerance. We all also endanger those around us with "selfish" decisions on a very regular basis, so this is nothing new either. I don't think it makes someone a terrible person if they do the same risk analysis as me and come to a different conclusion.

[eric42434224]

I'm puzzled that it is still surprising to people that masks help, regardless to the level of effectiveness.  Its not rocket science to know that putting some cloth on your mug will help decrease the amount of shiz you spray out yo mouth.

[lordxizor]

I'm puzzled that it is still surprising that masks help.

Though there are people who disagree with the effectiveness of masks, I think for the most part it boils down to people feeling either:
-this is a massive overreaction to a disease with a very high survival rate and I don't want to participate in that overreaction.
- don't tell me what to do, you can't make me wear a mask.

[ZKX-2099]

I'm puzzled that it is still surprising that masks help.

Though there are people who disagree with the effectiveness of masks, I think for the most part it boils down to people feeling either:
-this is a massive overreaction to a disease with a very high survival rate and I don't want to participate in that overreaction.
- don't tell me what to do, you can't make me wear a mask.

- It's uncomfortable
-It doesn't work

[Indiscipline]

I wear a mask in public because I'm extremely afraid I could damage other people.

I'm a bit puzzled by seeing fear of wearing a mask topping fear of hurting your neighbour.

It doesn't sound like fear of wearing a mask. It just sounds like "I don't wanna and you can't make me" kind of attitude.

I was being kind 

[The Walrus]

I'm puzzled that it is still surprising that masks help.

Though there are people who disagree with the effectiveness of masks, I think for the most part it boils down to people feeling either:
-this is a massive overreaction to a disease with a very high survival rate and I don't want to participate in that overreaction.
- don't tell me what to do, you can't make me wear a mask.

- It's uncomfortable

So get a more comfortable mask. It's not hard!

EDIT: and they do work. They do help. Just because it's not 100% effective does not mean they're not effective. Psychologically you can help others keep their minds at ease by wearing one and being 'uncomfortable' for a few minutes while you shop. Surely that peace of mind and potential safety is worth a FEW minutes of mild discomfort.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

I wear N95s at work fairly often because of dust particles. They work. If you have the disease but are asymptomatic, wearing a mask can help prevent spreading it to others.

[ZKX-2099]

I am forced by the county I live in to wear one all day at work.

The "few minutes while you shop" argument isn't gonna go far with me.

[The Walrus]

I am forced by the county I live in to wear one all day at work.

The "few minutes while you shop" argument isn't gonna go far with me.

So, if we look at this objectively, you value your comfort over the health and safety of others, yes? Not making a judgement call because of that, but I want to be sure I understand your position here. Do you think doctors don't know what they're talking about when they talk about the effectiveness of masks? If so, why do you think you know more better than them?

[eric42434224]

I'm puzzled that it is still surprising that masks help.

Though there are people who disagree with the effectiveness of masks, I think for the most part it boils down to people feeling either:
-this is a massive overreaction to a disease with a very high survival rate and I don't want to participate in that overreaction.
- don't tell me what to do, you can't make me wear a mask.

- It's uncomfortable.
-It doesn't work.

- It's uncomfortable....yup.  and? 
-It doesn't work....nope.

[Adami]

According to some numbers I just ran, serving in the Vietnam war (as in actually going to the country to fight) had a 98% or so survival rate for the US army.

Pretty sure I still wouldn't have wanted to go, and definitely wouldn't have mocked people who were too scared to go fight in Vietnam.

I'm also doing this to show what a 98-99% survival rate looks like.

[ZKX-2099]

I value being able to breathe.

I've seen enough to know that most people don't care about others. So I know it's a fools errand to do it myself.

According to some numbers I just ran, serving in the Vietnam war (as in actually going to the country to fight) had a 98% or so survival rate for the US army.

Pretty sure I still wouldn't have wanted to go, and definitely wouldn't have mocked people who were too scared to go fight in Vietnam.

I'm also doing this to show what a 98-99% survival rate looks like.

Did you have an issue with the forced draft? How do you feel about forcing people to wear a mask?

[Adami]

Yes I have a problem with the forced draft. Other than the word forced, it has nothing in common with the masks.

Forcing people into a war is NOT in the slightest bit the same as forcing people to wear mask.

Though, and I apologize to Northern Lion for this, I do not value personal freedom and liberty to the same degree that most Americans and westerners do.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Does anyone not have an issue with the forced draft?

I value being able to breathe.

So the mask is not effective at stopping virus particles, but somehow is impeding your ability to breathe, which relies on oxygen molecules that are orders of magnitude smaller than virus particles?

Re: Being forced. Are you allowed to walk into a store naked?

[The Walrus]

I value being able to breathe.

I've seen enough to know that most people don't care about others. So I know it's a fools errand to do it myself.

Is it a fools errand to wear your seat belt even though a lot of people don't? You're acting off of a gross assumption about billions of people. Like Shadow said... to you, the masks don't stop the sickness, yet you can't breathe in them? Huh?

[Indiscipline]

I am forced by the county I live in to wear one all day at work.

The "few minutes while you shop" argument isn't gonna go far with me.

Wait. So you do wear it at work because forced.

I'm relieved that "my body my choice" speech was probably more a matter of frustration than disregard for other people's safety 

[eric42434224]

I asked my wife if she liked getting mammograms every year. She said, "NO!  They are very painful, and inconvenient, and even embarrassing at times."
But I said, "what is the big deal?  Why the overreaction?  Breast Cancer has a 99% survival rating!"
Then I woke up an hour later on the ground, next to a frying pan, with a large lump on my head. 

[bosk1]

How do you feel about forcing people to wear a mask?

If people are too indifferent to care about harm they are deliberately inflicting upon others, I think it is the government's job to force people to comply.

[ZKX-2099]

Lousy analogies and boot licking... I'll see you guys in the other threads. 

[The Walrus]

Lousy analogies and BOOT LICKING!   

[eric42434224]

Lousy analogies and BOOT LICKING!   

Boot Licking?   
Someone has some other issues going on to think that our position on wearing masks is somehow boot licking.  Holy Shit Man.
Hell, I even googled it juuuust to make sure it meant what I thought it meant.  Wow.

[Indiscipline]

Lousy analogies and boot licking... I'll see you guys in the other threads. 

You're 100% free to stay home if afraid of some 100% survival rate discussion 

[Adami]

Lousy analogies and boot licking... I'll see you guys in the other threads. 

I apologize if my analogies seemed lousy. I was just trying to demonstrate why "99% survival rate" might be misleading.

Also I honestly don't think I've heard the phrase boot licking before. According to google, it means giving into power for the sake of it or something? I dunno.

I mean, I know Walrus is very against certain types of jokes, but other than that I don't think anyone here has demonstrated any boot licking. We just feel it's a good idea. Likely after rational thinking, and not just blind servitude.

[bosk1]

Recognizing a duty to others to not spread a potentially deadly virus is not in the same zip code as boot licking.  I mean, I get that it is convenient to shoot down someone else's argument by using a catchy soundbite rather than grappling with the actual issues, but this one isn't even close.

[lordxizor]

How do you feel about forcing people to wear a mask?

If people are too indifferent to care about harm they are deliberately inflicting upon others, I think it is the government's job to force people to comply.

Not wearing a mask is very, very far from deliberately inflicting harm upon others.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Is the difference between sizes of virus particles and oxygen molecules a 'lousy analogy'?

Fucking scientists. Trying to get in our heads with their lousy-ass "'"facts"'".

[The Walrus]

I mean, I know Walrus is very against certain types of jokes, but other than that I don't think anyone here has demonstrated any boot licking

You bastard 

[eric42434224]

How do you feel about forcing people to wear a mask?

If people are too indifferent to care about harm they are deliberately inflicting upon others, I think it is the government's job to force people to comply.

Not wearing a mask is very, very far from deliberately inflicting harm upon others.

True.  But unless you get a test, do you KNOW you don't have the virus?  So not wearing a mask, knowing that you MIGHT be infecting other people, is called what then?  Intentional Negligence?  Is that ok?

[Adami]

You know, I was trying to come up with an analogy to argue Lordxizor and the idea of unprotected sex came up.

We don't mandate protected sex, but generally urge it. We leave it up to the individuals. Some obvious exceptions are a person who knows they have a thing like HIV cannot engage in unprotected sex without the informed, and I do mean informed, consent of the other person. But with COVID, unless you have been tested positive, it's more like someone who may have an STD or may not.........which is most of us who weren't recently tested. We don't mandate condom use.

I dunno. Just typing out my thought process.

Edit: Hm, but sex isn't like breathing. We're not banging everyone around us in a store/park/etc.......I mean, maybe some of you are, but I'm definitely not good looking enough to pull that off. So Maybe then the extreme amount of exposure makes it different.

[bosk1]

I get the analogy. But unlike breathing, we do not expect that everyone we come within 6 feet of (ariich excepted, but later) will involuntarily spontaneously have sex with us without our consent, and thereby expose us to whatever they may happen to be carrying.

[lordxizor]

How do you feel about forcing people to wear a mask?

If people are too indifferent to care about harm they are deliberately inflicting upon others, I think it is the government's job to force people to comply.

Not wearing a mask is very, very far from deliberately inflicting harm upon others.

True.  But unless you get a test, do you KNOW you don't have the virus?  So not wearing a mask, knowing that you MIGHT be infecting other people, is called what then?  Intentional Negligence?  Is that ok?

I would say intentional negligence would be going out when you know you're sick and not taking precautions, or with Covid going out at all I guess. And no, that would not be ok.

[eric42434224]

How do you feel about forcing people to wear a mask?

If people are too indifferent to care about harm they are deliberately inflicting upon others, I think it is the government's job to force people to comply.

Not wearing a mask is very, very far from deliberately inflicting harm upon others.

True.  But unless you get a test, do you KNOW you don't have the virus?  So not wearing a mask, knowing that you MIGHT be infecting other people, is called what then?  Intentional Negligence?  Is that ok?

I would say intentional negligence would be going out when you know you're sick and not taking precautions, or with Covid going out at all I guess. And no, that would not be ok.

First I would say knowing you have it, and interacting with others while not taking precautions, is more like assault.

So then what is going out without a mask on, not knowing if you have Covid-19 or not?  You KNOW there is a risk that you might be asymptomatic and might give it to others?  That seems like intentional negligence to me.

Maybe I'm wrong.  Sure wouldn't be the first time.