Coronavirus

[lonestar]

While California is looking to lift the mandate on 6/15, I got a shitty feeling the super woke companies I work for (Lyft and Whole Foods) will giddily require them indefinitely just to be dicks.

[Harmony]

1.  How would the Covid response have been/be different if there were no social media?

I'll cop to a bias right up front here, but I think it would have been far better.  I think that the information would have transmitted more slowly, but more accurately, and the accuracy would have largely cancelled out the slow.  I think the level of divisiveness would have been FAR less, and there would be a lot less "statements" being made through the compliance with the guidance.   I firmly believe that the social media does a lot to sort of "set" the expectation of how people should react.  Social media is all about conflict, and escalation, and "owning", and I think that aspect of the response would have been greatly suppressed.   (If you disagree, that's fine, but for one moment consider the difference between responding anonymously over a social media platform versus face-to-face in person.)

I don't disagree with you that information would've been slower to get out and there would've likely been less of a knee-jerk response to that information.  I wonder if it is a trade-off though?  Sometimes it is hard to remember what we were up against in the early days.  Ventilators and PPE in short supply; hospitals at risk for being over-run in some areas.  The information had to get out quickly or that part of it (transmission of the virus) could've exponentially been much worse.

The theory one of the doctor's on the podcast also put forth was that the talking heads who were putting the information out there would've been different.  They likely would've been more centrist and moderate in nature.  Media is about likes and retweets, so they are going to choose doctors and "experts" with a large social media presence.  Those people post their own stories/reports and op-eds, get the social media boost for it, and around and around it goes.  Without social media the "experts" don't have to pander to an audience.  They can be the drollest of the droll scientist who can just report facts without sensationalism that brings in eyeballs. 

It is an interesting dilemma - do we go for speed at the cost of a little (or a lot) of inaccuracy?  Or do we go for accuracy at the risk of more people getting sick and potentially dying because it takes forever to get the word out into the public for consumption?

2.  How would the Covid response have been/be different if there had been no technology like Zoom, Uber Eats, Amazon.  No online work meeting platforms, no delivery services, no grocery/liquor/weed store pick up.

The response would have been FAR, FAR less effective.  We - humans (not "Republicans" or "Democrats) - have a tendency to get stale on things.  We saw as the COVID response went on that people's willingness to sacrifice waned over time; that would only have been worse if these services weren't there to cushion our sacrifice AND cushion the impact to those businesses greatly affected by the virus.  I'm thinking of all the more restaurants that would have gone out of business if they couldn't pivot to a take out model, and all the additional jobs that would have been lost had they closed.

I completely agree with you about the cushions provided.  I don't think you are going far enough here.  There would've been MUCH more white collar job loss...MASSIVE layoffs.  People would've undoubtedly been much more willing to risk going into work - even if half time - to avoid being laid off all together.  We'll have been much more willing to take on the mitigation factors necessary to do so - wearing masks, alternate days with co-workers, spreading out, opening windows in the winter, etc.  Upper-middle class simply wouldn't have tolerated that amount of job loss.  And they/we would've been forced to be out in the soup of Covid with the "essential workers" in order to get our basic needs met.  And schools?  They simply would've had to have remained open so that people could go into their jobs.  With no technology, there could've been no on-line school at all.  And I really fault and question the left on this much more harshly (myself included here).  The availability of technology sort of trapped us into the response of a willingness to play it safe and stay home, shield ourselves from the reality of the risks that others were forced to take just to survive.  These people who couldn't afford the luxury of staying home and staying safe?  These are the people that supposedly we on the left champion and yet did we?  Or did we just use them to make our own lives easier during the pandemic?  And is this same luxury keeping some of us locked into our fears now?  Keeping us locked into our "sides" even unnecessarily?

3.  How would the Covid response have been/be different if North America had been more aware/concerned about Covid-19 in December 2019?

I don't think it would have been materially different in scope, it just might have started sooner.  That may have prevented some of the larger, early hotspots, such as those in Washington state and New York.  It would have potentially brought us the vaccines that much sooner as well.

Well, I think I agree but I would also add that had we shut down travel before the holidays, we could've arguably kept the mortality rates lower and given us more time to ramp up and prepare, as well as get messaging out.  I wonder, honestly, if there were those in power who did know that early on.  Who either discounted the severity because of outright denial and disbelief or even more nefariously because of not wanting to slow the holiday spending.  I think there was also a faction that wanted to down-play it all to not cause panic in the stock market or in hoarding, even more than there was in March. 

It's an interesting thought exercise - at least to me - to ponder about other potential outcomes and scenarios.  If we had done this then that could've been the outcome.  I wonder though...have we learned anything?  Are we going to be more prepared?  Are we going to look at ourselves and our own responses as critically as we apply our judgment to others?  People as a whole who are under a great amount of fear and stress are not going to be making very good decisions.  I have had to face that fact when I look at some of my own responses.  I am human.  I can forgive it and I can understand it.  But can I guarantee that I will learn from it and do things differently going forward?  I don't know.  I hope so.  I know that I will be less 'tribal' in my responses.

[Stadler]

Good post; I'm only cutting the first two because I have nothing to add other than " " (and a caveat that in your second reply, I appreciate you being honest, but again, I don't see much of a "side" issue here).

Well, I think I agree but I would also add that had we shut down travel before the holidays, we could've arguably kept the mortality rates lower and given us more time to ramp up and prepare, as well as get messaging out.  I wonder, honestly, if there were those in power who did know that early on.  Who either discounted the severity because of outright denial and disbelief or even more nefariously because of not wanting to slow the holiday spending.  I think there was also a faction that wanted to down-play it all to not cause panic in the stock market or in hoarding, even more than there was in March.

I like this line of thinking, but as I work through it, I think it just gets complicated, and highlights the problem - NOT with you, generally - of thinking in buckets.  There probably WAS someone thinking "keep the lid on this because of the holidays"; and of those people SOME were likely thinking of "$$$", but some were likely, and ironically, thinking of public safety.  We move so many people through the holiday season, that I don't know that we could have handled a panic just then.   Remember, leading up to the first really big holiday - July 4th here in the States - we had four months to get our arms around the concept of "this isn't normal".  I don't know what one week would have done.

I think there were likely people that didn't want to upset the apple cart with China, and, given North Korea, that could be people on EITHER side of the aisle.  And from multiple angles:  political, but also economic.  If the horn was sounded immediately, and China - not working under the same rules we do here in the States - just locked everything down, could we withstand that?   Sure, we moved from in person shopping to on-line shopping, but what if there was nothing to buy?  We all saw the impacts of the toilet paper shortage; multiply that by 10 or 100.

It's an interesting thought exercise - at least to me - to ponder about other potential outcomes and scenarios.  If we had done this then that could've been the outcome.  I wonder though...have we learned anything?  Are we going to be more prepared?  Are we going to look at ourselves and our own responses as critically as we apply our judgment to others?  People as a whole who are under a great amount of fear and stress are not going to be making very good decisions.  I have had to face that fact when I look at some of my own responses.  I am human.  I can forgive it and I can understand it.  But can I guarantee that I will learn from it and do things differently going forward?  I don't know.  I hope so.  I know that I will be less 'tribal' in my responses.

Here's one to think about:  I'm not at all saying that our response was measured on purpose - honestly, I think even the smartest, most aware people bumbled along for at least four or five months as we figured this out - but as I write this, I think our response was perhaps as fast as we - generally, as society - could have handled, just out of dumb luck.   I think as we look at what we could change, it's the chaos theory personified; it spirals out of control REALLY quickly.

The learning part is more interesting, and I'm not sure I could answer without letting my cynicism take over.   Other than the measurable, recordable hard science - mask technology, viral technology, vaccine technology - I don't think we've collectively learned a damn thing.   The "we should be wearing BODY SUITS!" crowd is always going to think that had we mandated PPE, and closed the door to Florida entirely, we'd have saved lives (I don't agree with this, as I think it's ignorant - in the literal sense of the word - of basic human nature).  The "we should keep our economy open at ALL COSTS!" crowd is always going to think that the numbers were what the numbers were and we shouldn't have taken the economic hit TOO (I don't agree with this either, as I think it's also ignorant - ITLSOTW - of basic human nature).  I think politically we're too fractured to really understand what needed to be done.  Namely, the divisiveness needed to be put aside at Day One.  This should have been our 2020 9/11, where left, right, rich, poor, black, white, smart, stupid, Dee and Jay Jay (Twisted Sister) came together even if just for a blissful couple of weeks, and put country and people ahead of party and self.   Trump is the obvious target for this, but he's not the only one.   There are other leaders in other communities, political and otherwise, that could have forced the issue and they didn't, with very few exceptions.  Cuomo was one, and it hurts me that his legacy from this will likely be scandal, not his excellence in his initial response, since that will only ensure that this lesson has less chance of being learned.

[darkshade]

HAHAHA LMFAO.  This was from January/February 2020!!

This was a convenient pro-Trump meme that was floating around last July.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH PEOPLE!!!

Are you saying those are faked news headlines???

Not sure you understand what 'meme' means.

Fair enough... it's not exactly pro-Trump, nor a meme.  But you drop it in here with no context or personal commentary like it's a current view of the media.  That's what I was talking about when I said "do your own research".  And if your point is to highlight media bias and how bad/uninformative they are, maybe that deserves a different thread if that's REALLY what you want to highlight and discuss.

Well, it was on topic in regards to coronavirus. I can't seem to get into the political forum here and I won't start a new thread here since that isn't allowed.
But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

[darkshade]

Can someone approve me to post there, then???

[darkshade]

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html

but this is fine in general discussion?

[cramx3]

But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

 

and the vaccines, specifically Pfizer, will be FDA fully approved by then, will you change your narrative then?

[Ben_Jamin]

But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

 

and the vaccines, specifically Pfizer, will be FDA fully approved by then, will you change your narrative then?

Which means the virus won't be an emergency.

The emergency was to slow the spread. Which we now are doing thanks to these vaccines. It slowed it to where it's not an emergency. To lower the risks of people getting severe symptoms that causes Death and the mass influx of patients that overwhelmed the hospitals.

Which was the main reason for the shutdown, quarantines, and masking. What this did was affect us humans mentally, because we are not accustomed to just being quarantined, and not doing things, quarantining affects the mentality, prison is proof of this.

This has caused peoples Anxiety and Worry to rise, which can cause your body and gut to be affected, which are known as the butterflies and the sick feeling in your gut. Worry and anxiety can make you sick because your mind controls your body.

These people ended up being comforted and blanketed in their safety net, that now they don't want to leave that comfort. These people are still concerned even though the science says you'll be fine as the vaccines work, and you won't be getting severe symptoms, more than likely those symptoms of Covid-19 will be Asymptomatic.

This in turn, means the only ones who should actually be concerned or worried about this are the ones whom didn't get the vaccine. And now, that is entirely their decision. These people more than likely just don't see their risk as high as some people see their risks.

The vaccines don't stop the spread or prevent you from catching it, it means you just won't feel as bad as you would without the vaccine. To the point where you won't even notice and think it's just a common cold (also a coronavirus), or allergies, and won't even bother worrying much at all. And this all depends on a person's immunity response. And not everyone has the same response. And why you should see your doctor before getting any form of remedy or vaccine, anything you inject in your body really.

And there are many things that occurred before Covid-19, that caused many of the human population to end up with these underlying conditions that made people more susceptible to this virus, which caused them to have severe symptoms from it.

For me, it's mainly visiting your doctor to see if you are healthy. And if you are not, what are you doing to better your health? Most people didn't bother and now here we are....Would this be considered a lesson to learn? To have more self-responsibility and accountability for your decisions and choices, like saying "Maybe I shouldn't have been eating all that fried, greasy, sugary, food. Then maybe I wouldn't be worrying as much, and having my anxiety rise, because of a virus."


If anything should be learned. I think Accountability for the self, and the choices and decisions made that caused one to be dealing with the situations they are in now, should be considered before placing that blame on the other for passing a sickness onto you, because you don't know for sure where you actually could have caught that illness, unless someone actually sneezes or coughs in your face. Not knowing for sure how you caught the sickness, is the risk you take when going out into the world and being around so many different people.

I am now seeing a lot of people that are not healthy actually taking the initiative to better their health. That's good. And shows that these people understand and took that self-responsibility to better their health and not have these underlying conditions that can be dealt with by changes in diet and exercise.

[cramx3]

But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

 

and the vaccines, specifically Pfizer, will be FDA fully approved by then, will you change your narrative then?

Which means the virus won't be an emergency.

But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

 

and the vaccines, specifically Pfizer, will be FDA fully approved by then, will you change your narrative then?

Which means the virus won't be an emergency.

Not really.  It means:

For the FDA to grant approval, Pfizer-BioNTech will have to comply with a key requirement: providing follow-up data six months after vaccinations.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/07/994839927/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine

And if I recall, the first public shots were given at the and of December so we are just about at 6 months now.

[Ben_Jamin]

But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

 

and the vaccines, specifically Pfizer, will be FDA fully approved by then, will you change your narrative then?

Which means the virus won't be an emergency.

But think about it, everything you think is true now, might not be next year.
This "Vaccines" are approved for emergency use this year, but where will we be next year?

I do do my own research, but that is frowned upon if it doesn't reflect American Marxists and American Marxist narratives in a positive light.

 

and the vaccines, specifically Pfizer, will be FDA fully approved by then, will you change your narrative then?

Which means the virus won't be an emergency.

Not really.  It means:

For the FDA to grant approval, Pfizer-BioNTech will have to comply with a key requirement: providing follow-up data six months after vaccinations.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/07/994839927/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine

And if I recall, the first public shots were given at the and of December so we are just about at 6 months now.

I knew someone would point that out.

That was more in response to Darkshades question of "Where will we be next year?"

But also, once it is FDA approved then it won't be considered an emergency. As the data continues to show these vaccines work and now people don't have to worry as a remedy is available for people to take. But mostly everyone who wanted one has already gotten one.

So I am sure, once it's approved, the Unvaccinated can go maskless. As it's now not an emergency, and those susceptible should be fine if vaccinated.

There is no way to prevent death, so if it's about stopping death, then we're screwed. 

[Chino]

I heard on the radio this morning that 71% of New England is partially or fully vaccinated at this point 

[ErHaO]

Got my first Pfizer dose  It did fuck me up for about a day though, but apparently people who have had covid can have bit more prominent response to the first dose of the vaccine(s), so maybe it was due to that. Thankfully it was only for a day and I feel great now.

[jingle.boy]

Better 5G reception I'll bet, too!

[kirksnosehair]

Well, that's just it. But it's not really the teenagers' fault. Ultimately it's a choice their parents make. But there's plenty of adult associates that aren't vaxxed and will be maskless.

I know what's coming..no masks for everyone, but I was just curious how companies would manage compliance.

Oh, I agree.  The kids, especially the young ones just starting out are not at fault.  Who among us didn't feel completely invincible when we were 16?  I would NEVER have gone to get a vaccine.  Hell, not even the 30-year-old me would have gotten a vaccine because the 30-year-old me knew everything and "the man" wasn't gonna make me do anything I didn't choose to do. 


Companies can't really manage compliance because they can't ask employees if they've been vaccinated.  Employees can choose to divulge that information if they want but companies can't require you to divulge it nor can they penalize you for not divulging it, so "honor system" is completely meaningless.

[hefdaddy42]

My office announced that people working in the office who have been vaccinated no longer need to wear masks in the office.  I'm glad, but honestly it's been a little weird.

They are allowing workers who have been remote over the last year to voluntarily start coming back into the office as of June 1.  There will be a slow phase-in, with September as a the target to return to business as usual (more or less).

[King Postwhore]

My office announced that people working in the office who have been vaccinated no longer need to wear masks in the office.  I'm glad, but honestly it's been a little weird.

They are allowing workers who have been remote over the last year to voluntarily start coming back into the office as of June 1.  There will be a slow phase-in, with September as a the target to return to business as usual (more or less).

They are doing that now where I work Hef and to see how many people are still wearing masks actually scares me.  I know a small % is still wearing it because another loved one in their family still needs to get a second shot but to see so many here not vaccinated it downright crazy.  I will never preach to them about it but it's nuts how many people to not want to get the vaccine.

[Ben_Jamin]

My office announced that people working in the office who have been vaccinated no longer need to wear masks in the office.  I'm glad, but honestly it's been a little weird.

They are allowing workers who have been remote over the last year to voluntarily start coming back into the office as of June 1.  There will be a slow phase-in, with September as a the target to return to business as usual (more or less).

They are doing that now where I work Hef and to see how many people are still wearing masks actually scares me.  I know a small % is still wearing it because another loved one in their family still needs to get a second shot but to see so many here not vaccinated it downright crazy.  I will never preach to them about it but it's nuts how many people to not want to get the vaccine.

Are you for sure they're all wearing masks because they are not vaccinated?

I know people whom are vaccinated but yet, are still choosing to continue wearing a mask and social distancing. Some of those people at your work could be the same.

[hefdaddy42]

I know people whom are vaccinated but yet, are still choosing to continue wearing a mask and social distancing.

When they don't have to do so?

Why?

[Chino]

I know people whom are vaccinated but yet, are still choosing to continue wearing a mask and social distancing.

When they don't have to do so?

Why?

This one kind of escapes me too. I think there are two main reasons.

1) People are still legit scared. Even if they don't want to admit it, they're worried there's still a chance they'll get Covid. I think some are telling themselves "I'm doing it to protect those who can't get vaccinated", but I think that's BS in the majority of cases.
2) Everyone else is. I'm guilty of this one. I went into a store the other day, and I was the only person in there not wearing a mask. I put it on simply because I was getting shit looks, and I didn't feel like ending up on someone's social media page and getting called out for my behavior.

[King Postwhore]

My office announced that people working in the office who have been vaccinated no longer need to wear masks in the office.  I'm glad, but honestly it's been a little weird.

They are allowing workers who have been remote over the last year to voluntarily start coming back into the office as of June 1.  There will be a slow phase-in, with September as a the target to return to business as usual (more or less).

They are doing that now where I work Hef and to see how many people are still wearing masks actually scares me.  I know a small % is still wearing it because another loved one in their family still needs to get a second shot but to see so many here not vaccinated it downright crazy.  I will never preach to them about it but it's nuts how many people to not want to get the vaccine.

Are you for sure they're all wearing masks because they are not vaccinated?

I know people whom are vaccinated but yet, are still choosing to continue wearing a mask and social distancing. Some of those people at your work could be the same.

Ben, that's the small % I'm talking about.  Sure there are some but most would jettison the mask at first shot.

[cramx3]

2) Everyone else is. I'm guilty of this one. I went into a store the other day, and I was the only person in there not wearing a mask. I put it on simply because I was getting shit looks, and I didn't feel like ending up on someone's social media page and getting called out for my behavior.

I'm extremely curious how things will go on Friday when the mandate is lifted here.  I plan on going into the super market to scope things out and I plan on not wearing a mask either, but will carry it with me.

[bosk1]

3)  It makes others comfortable.  If someone is going to call me out because they subjectively believe I should wear a mask, I don't really care about that.  That misunderstanding is on them.  But I have no problem wearing mine if I believe others are not comfortable.  There's certainly nothing wrong with being considerate of other people's feelings.

[gmillerdrake]

Everything is maskless where I'm at. My kids still wear one....but, most every business has dropped the mandate. The only time I've worn my mask the past couple weeks is when I'm working and doing site visits at hospitals. The only weird looks you get around here is if you're still wearing one.

[jingle.boy]

You can still get pregnant while on the pill
You can still catch an STI while using a condom
You can still have the sniffles while on allergy meds
You can still have an asthma attack while on inhalers
You can still have abnormal blood sugar while on insulin

You can still catch COVID after being vaccinated.

Maybe some people would rather make the choice to be overly cautious, rather than thinking everything's normal at the first opportunity.  Maybe people don't want even a mild case of COVID.  Maybe people want to do a little extra in their part to continue to drive the numbers down.  This isn't a shot at anyone here, but for all that are tossing the mask immediately, you'll never know if you catch an asymptomatic case of COVID.  Or if you spread it to anyone.  Of if they spread it.  And so on, and so on, and so on ...  Things may be great inside your own borders, but until the world is out of the woods, no one is out of the woods.  Being vaccinated =/= COVID invincibility.  This is part of the reason of my post from a couple weeks back, that I don't think I'll be going maskless (indoors in public / crowded spaces) anytime soon, even with my second dose.  You don't see businesses tearing down their plexi-glass right now, do you?

Then there are things like this from the weekend ...

'Triple mutant' Covid variant identified in the UK with 'strange gene combination'
Public Health England is investigating the new variant with 49 cases found so far mainly in Yorkshire and Humber while people are being told not to be alarmed by it

For all the people that can't whip that mask of fast enough, there's going to be people who might have concerns that the US is potentially a petry-dish breeding ground for it's own variant.

[XeRocks81]

mask wearing should be normalized anyway.  At least I’m never going to look twice at someone like I might have before. 

[cramx3]

This isn't a shot at anyone here, but for all that are tossing the mask immediately, you'll never know if you catch an asymptomatic case of COVID.  Or if you spread it to anyone.  Of if they spread it.  And so on, and so on, and so on ...

Vaccines have been easily available for long enough now, it's not really my problem is I spread it to an unvaccinated person.  They made their choice, although the caveat of someone who legit cannot get the vaccine is really the only concern. 

The science also shows that vaccinated people aren't likely to spread it and if they do, it's not likely to kill someone because viral load will be very low.  It's really about the science IMO.  And your linked article can be filed into the "fear mongering media examples" IMO. 

Actually just today some data on covid breakthrough cases was released and it's highly encouraging:

https://www.newsweek.com/this-chart-number-covid-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-us-1595124



and in regards the deaths:

The median age of patients who died was 82 while 28 of these individuals had no COVID-19 symptoms or died from an unrelated cause.

Essentially, the point and the science shows, vaccinated people are not causing issues here.  The risks associated with covid once vaccinated are so low, you should be wayyyy more scared about getting into a vehicle.

[bosk1]

You can still catch COVID after being vaccinated.

Well, yeah, you can.  But the odds are miniscule.  And the odds of getting really sick are even more miniscule.

...but until the world is out of the woods, no one is out of the woods.

Eh, not really.

As for the rest of the post, I think the answer for a lot of people is along the lines of:  Yeah, I know, but I'm not really all that concerned.  When the risk of something bad happening is so small, it isn't something I waste my time worrying about.

[Harmony]

You can still get pregnant while on the pill
You can still catch an STI while using a condom
You can still have the sniffles while on allergy meds
You can still have an asthma attack while on inhalers
You can still have abnormal blood sugar while on insulin

You can still catch COVID after being vaccinated.

Maybe some people would rather make the choice to be overly cautious, rather than thinking everything's normal at the first opportunity.  Maybe people don't want even a mild case of COVID.  Maybe people want to do a little extra in their part to continue to drive the numbers down.  This isn't a shot at anyone here, but for all that are tossing the mask immediately, you'll never know if you catch an asymptomatic case of COVID.  Or if you spread it to anyone.  Of if they spread it.  And so on, and so on, and so on ...  Things may be great inside your own borders, but until the world is out of the woods, no one is out of the woods.  Being vaccinated =/= COVID invincibility.  This is part of the reason of my post from a couple weeks back, that I don't think I'll be going maskless (indoors in public / crowded spaces) anytime soon, even with my second dose.  You don't see businesses tearing down their plexi-glass right now, do you?

Then there are things like this from the weekend ...

'Triple mutant' Covid variant identified in the UK with 'strange gene combination'
Public Health England is investigating the new variant with 49 cases found so far mainly in Yorkshire and Humber while people are being told not to be alarmed by it

For all the people that can't whip that mask of fast enough, there's going to be people who might have concerns that the US is potentially a petry-dish breeding ground for it's own variant.

I hear this and completely understand what you are saying.  I felt very strongly about all of this until very recently myself.  I think were we here in the US in a similar situation as other countries having high numbers or not doing as well with vaccine roll out, it makes perfect sense.

Honesty, I hope people continue to see the benefit of masking when ill on-going.  Imagine how less often we'd get colds and flu?  Even gastrointestinal diseases could be decreased because when you touch that tainted surface and a mask prevents you from getting the disease into your body then it is a win/win.  Keep hand washing, keep squirting that sanitizer.  Let's make this our new normal.   

That said, variants can be stopped by vaccination.  Variants thus far have not jumped the vaccines.  Our T cells and B cells - for those who are vaccinated and those who have recovered from Covid - are doing their jobs.  Certainly there will never be a 100% guarantee.  Viruses mutate, this is not new.  Listening to infectious disease specialists, I'm not hearing the fear/panic about variants.  I am getting fear/panic about variants from media outlets.  The ID docs are clear that the most effective way to stop mutations is vaccine in arms.  Coronovirus has no way to mutate in populations where cases are low.  I can't speak to other countries but in the US we have good vaccination rates AND high immunity (post infection) rates.  I don't see the US as anything close to a petri dish for variants at this point.  Do I wish more would get vaccinated?  Of course.  Anti-vaxxers will always be with us.  The rest of us will carry them as we always do.  The healthcare system will care for them when they get sick as they always do.  It is unfortunate, but people will make their own choices about the risks they are willing to take.  The best we can do is make choices for ourselves to minimize OUR risks and protect those who don't have those same choices (children, immunocompromised) the way that we always have.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I'm done with the mask after this coming weekend.  All of the restrictions are being lifted here starting next Monday.  The odds of a vaccinated person dying from Covid? I've got better odds of hitting the PowerBall jackpot 3 times* in a row playing the same numbers.  OK, I'm exaggerating a little, but you get my point.


























*It's probably more like 5 times

[hefdaddy42]

There's certainly nothing wrong with being considerate of other people's feelings.

I mean, I guess.

lol

Here in NC, the public mask mandate has been lifted for people who have been vaccinated; however, businesses are still free to require masks, and some certainly are.  I have been vaccinated, so I am going maskless everywhere that I can, and if I go into a business that still requires them, cool, I'll mask up.

[Stadler]

2) Everyone else is. I'm guilty of this one. I went into a store the other day, and I was the only person in there not wearing a mask. I put it on simply because I was getting shit looks, and I didn't feel like ending up on someone's social media page and getting called out for my behavior.

I have absolutely done that. 

[Stadler]

It is unfortunate, but people will make their own choices about the risks they are willing to take.  The best we can do is make choices for ourselves to minimize OUR risks and protect those who don't have those same choices (children, immunocompromised) the way that we always have.

Other than the "unfortunate" part, this is exactly how I feel. 

[King Postwhore]

There's certainly nothing wrong with being considerate of other people's feelings.

I mean, I guess.

lol

Here in NC, the public mask mandate has been lifted for people who have been vaccinated; however, businesses are still free to require masks, and some certainly are.  I have been vaccinated, so I am going maskless everywhere that I can, and if I go into a business that still requires them, cool, I'll mask up.

Exactly the same for me in N.H.

[Harmony]

It is unfortunate, but people will make their own choices about the risks they are willing to take.  The best we can do is make choices for ourselves to minimize OUR risks and protect those who don't have those same choices (children, immunocompromised) the way that we always have.

Other than the "unfortunate" part, this is exactly how I feel.

Well, that is taken out of the context of what I was saying.  I do feel it is unfortunate that people do not see the benefits of vaccines and that people do not care about concepts like herd immunity and putting a strain on healthcare systems with diseases that are entirely preventable.  Yes, we can go down the rabbit hole about preventative measures that people make choices about all the time (alcohol for example is a known carcinogen, yet many choose to take that risk, myself included) but the fact that we don't have small pox running rampant is thanks to vaccines.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't ultimately be in charge of their health choices.

[Ben_Jamin]

You can still get pregnant while on the pill
You can still catch an STI while using a condom
You can still have the sniffles while on allergy meds
You can still have an asthma attack while on inhalers
You can still have abnormal blood sugar while on insulin

You can still catch COVID after being vaccinated.

Maybe some people would rather make the choice to be overly cautious, rather than thinking everything's normal at the first opportunity.  Maybe people don't want even a mild case of COVID.  Maybe people want to do a little extra in their part to continue to drive the numbers down.  This isn't a shot at anyone here, but for all that are tossing the mask immediately, you'll never know if you catch an asymptomatic case of COVID.  Or if you spread it to anyone.  Of if they spread it.  And so on, and so on, and so on ...  Things may be great inside your own borders, but until the world is out of the woods, no one is out of the woods.  Being vaccinated =/= COVID invincibility.  This is part of the reason of my post from a couple weeks back, that I don't think I'll be going maskless (indoors in public / crowded spaces) anytime soon, even with my second dose.  You don't see businesses tearing down their plexi-glass right now, do you?

Then there are things like this from the weekend ...

'Triple mutant' Covid variant identified in the UK with 'strange gene combination'
Public Health England is investigating the new variant with 49 cases found so far mainly in Yorkshire and Humber while people are being told not to be alarmed by it

For all the people that can't whip that mask of fast enough, there's going to be people who might have concerns that the US is potentially a petry-dish breeding ground for it's own variant.

I hear this and completely understand what you are saying.  I felt very strongly about all of this until very recently myself.  I think were we here in the US in a similar situation as other countries having high numbers or not doing as well with vaccine roll out, it makes perfect sense.

Honesty, I hope people continue to see the benefit of masking when ill on-going.  Imagine how less often we'd get colds and flu?  Even gastrointestinal diseases could be decreased because when you touch that tainted surface and a mask prevents you from getting the disease into your body then it is a win/win.  Keep hand washing, keep squirting that sanitizer.  Let's make this our new normal.   

That said, variants can be stopped by vaccination.  Variants thus far have not jumped the vaccines.  Our T cells and B cells - for those who are vaccinated and those who have recovered from Covid - are doing their jobs.  Certainly there will never be a 100% guarantee.  Viruses mutate, this is not new.  Listening to infectious disease specialists, I'm not hearing the fear/panic about variants.  I am getting fear/panic about variants from media outlets.  The ID docs are clear that the most effective way to stop mutations is vaccine in arms.  Coronovirus has no way to mutate in populations where cases are low.  I can't speak to other countries but in the US we have good vaccination rates AND high immunity (post infection) rates.  I don't see the US as anything close to a petri dish for variants at this point.  Do I wish more would get vaccinated?  Of course.  Anti-vaxxers will always be with us.  The rest of us will carry them as we always do.  The healthcare system will care for them when they get sick as they always do. It is unfortunate, but people will make their own choices about the risks they are willing to take.  The best we can do is make choices for ourselves to minimize OUR risks and protect those who don't have those same choices (children, immunocompromised) the way that we always have.

This is all I say as well, in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, life isn't sunshine and happiness, and people are born with illnesses and diseases that make their immune system compromised entirely. But it's how life is. And I am sure, they understand and know the risks involved in living life and what is out there in the world that could potentially be fatal to them. I don't have to baby them and always be by them constantly to protect them, I know they are more than capable of handling it themselves, in the best way that is available to them, however they choose to live their life.

I know people whom are vaccinated but yet, are still choosing to continue wearing a mask and social distancing.

When they don't have to do so?

Why?

This one kind of escapes me too. I think there are two main reasons.

1) People are still legit scared. Even if they don't want to admit it, they're worried there's still a chance they'll get Covid. I think some are telling themselves "I'm doing it to protect those who can't get vaccinated", but I think that's BS in the majority of cases.
2) Everyone else is. I'm guilty of this one. I went into a store the other day, and I was the only person in there not wearing a mask. I put it on simply because I was getting shit looks, and I didn't feel like ending up on someone's social media page and getting called out for my behavior.

These are reasons they gave. Mainly using their concern for their loved ones, as that justification for their fear.

This is all related to the conditioning we got with the constant bombardment of fear that projected within the media. They played on peoples fears, and manipulated them into submission of those fears by keeping them comfortable. But if that's their reason, I won't fault them for continuing to wear a mask.

The science shows that vaccinated people are fine, and shouldn't worry at all about it, as that risk is now low. The only ones that should are the unvaccinated. And that is if they don't wear a mask. Which is their decision whether to risk their own health or not, as it always has been with regards to every risk in life.

So, if a person who is not vaccinated doesn't wear a mask and gets sick, that's on them. The responsibility lies with them if they don't mask. And the government shouldn't have to require people to wear one if it's that persons responsibility to understand the risk they're taking. This is what I was getting at with Personal Responsibility.

It is unfortunate, but people will make their own choices about the risks they are willing to take.  The best we can do is make choices for ourselves to minimize OUR risks and protect those who don't have those same choices (children, immunocompromised) the way that we always have.

Other than the "unfortunate" part, this is exactly how I feel.

Well, that is taken out of the context of what I was saying.  I do feel it is unfortunate that people do not see the benefits of vaccines and that people do not care about concepts like herd immunity and putting a strain on healthcare systems with diseases that are entirely preventable.  Yes, we can go down the rabbit hole about preventative measures that people make choices about all the time (alcohol for example is a known carcinogen, yet many choose to take that risk, myself included) but the fact that we don't have small pox running rampant is thanks to vaccines.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't ultimately be in charge of their health choices.

And how do they spread to people? This is where that focus should be on as well. Dealing with how people can get these diseases.

Hygiene is a good lesson here. And is what should be normalized. I see, the sanitization stations, and the sanitary measures businesses are taking to stay. And also, how important it is to have good nutrition, as malnutrition leads to illnesses that leave you susceptible to severe diseases, so we should all be getting the proper nutrition we need. And if you are sick, just stay home, and businesses should learn to let their employees stay home when sick, they could also require a doctors note to be confirmed for sick pay.

These are things we could also do, without relying on the vaccines to help us not get these diseases. I agree the vaccines work, and that's good, but there are also ways we could be doing this ourselves, and that's an entire change of mindset, which unfortunately, people do not want to actually go out and do.

And these mindsets are why we are having life struggles now...and that's another topic all together.