Coronavirus

[XJDenton]

This is general discussion. Don't make me tap the sign chaps.

[KevShmev]

This is general discussion. Don't make me tap the sign chaps.

Haha, all good. Pointless discussion anyway.

[lonestar]

California to fully open June 15th, according to Gov. Batman. (if you ever hear him talk you'd know why he's referred as that lol)

[Stadler]

This is general discussion. Don't make me tap the sign chaps.

Respecting XJ and the topic of the thread, for anyone that cares there are about five or six links I've posted in the Media thread in P/R over the years that refutes that one source, and the corresponding opinion.  We're all, of course, entitled to our opinions and our biases, but they should be taken as such.  If anyone can't find those links, I'll try (again) to collect them and repost them.

(Hint:  don't confuse Sean Hannity - opinion-tainment, not news - with the NEWS arm of Fox News, like that source does. There are also differences between the on-air and on-line versions of both outlets.)

[jingle.boy]

This is general discussion. Don't make me tap the sign chaps.

Respecting XJ and the topic of the thread, for anyone that cares there are about five or six links I've posted in the Media thread in P/R over the years that refutes that one source, and the corresponding opinion.  We're all, of course, entitled to our opinions and our biases, but they should be taken as such.  If anyone can't find those links, I'll try (again) to collect them and repost them.

(Hint:  don't confuse Sean Hannity - opinion-tainment, not news - with the NEWS arm of Fox News, like that source does. There are also differences between the on-air and on-line versions of both outlets.)

Or Don Lemon.

[Grappler]

I'm so tired of the stupidity and criticism of these vaccines.  Take them, don't take them, whatever.  But stop trying to discredit them somehow.  A whole bunch of people with MD's and PhD's created them and they know a hell of a lot more than someone that takes medical advice from Jenny McCarthy.

It's really sad when my kids' pediatrician's office has to put this infographic out and debunk a bunch of stuff to try and tell parents that it's safe and tested and effective.  And it's honestly good advice for adults to read this as well.

[Ben_Jamin]

That also says they do not know the long term effects of the mRNA Covid-19 Vaccines....However....They do not expect long term side effects. But also, it doesn't mean they won't happen, unexpected things have happened in life before. This is all based on their CURRENT knowledge of mRNA and the Human Body. This knowledge can definitely change as time passes and they actually know for sure, if there are no long term effects.

That is why some people still do not want to take it. Because we DO NOT know, FOR SURE, if these vaccines DO NOT cause long term side effects. And we will not know until more time passes. That's the experimental part of this. Because Life has thrown many unexpected things at us.

The CDC says those whom are vaccinated won't have a severe case of Covid-19, meaning if they catch it, their symptoms will more than likely be asymptomatic symptoms, and don't need to mask up, yet those people still do. It's nothing to do with science, and more to do with fear and the need and desire for safety. If you got the vaccine you should be fine, even those who were/are susceptible to this virus, whom were the ones who should have gotten the vaccine.

How we DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE these vaccines don't cause long term side effects isn't a criticism. It's a rightful concern, because that infographic says exactly this, "we do not know".

Eric Clapton has been vocal about how he had some nerve issues after taking the vaccine, enough for him to be concerned enough about it to where he thought he wouldn't be able to play anymore. My friend, had problems with her eye twitching and sudden nerve pain, those went away, but she still has some twitches and some pains still.

[soupytwist]

Clapton has been talking anti mask/lockdown stuff for months, Often promoting dumb YouTube videos.  Now he claims he had a 6 week negative reaction to the vaccine (of which he never reported at the time).  So basically we have his word for it (a man with a history or racism and abusing his wife might I add) and he clearly has an agenda....

My friend took the vaccine and she now has the uncanny ability to predict things.  Yesterday I turned over a pack of cards and she correctly got 31 ouuta 54 correct!!  Oddly she got nearly all the red suits correct, and barely any of the black.

My Dad told me since the second Vaccine my Mum now speaks fluent German in her sleep, and also hovers slightly above the bed when this happens.

There is a lady down the road from us who owns 3 cats, after she came home from getting the second Vaccine she fussed them all and next morning all 3 were pregnant....even the male one!!!

[jingle.boy]

I'm so tired of the stupidity and criticism of these vaccines.  Take them, don't take them, whatever.  But stop trying to discredit them somehow.  A whole bunch of people with MD's and PhD's created them and they know a hell of a lot more than someone that takes medical advice from Jenny McCarthy.

Or Eric Clapton apparently.

Only two things in life are certain... death and taxes.  This whole "we don't know" argument is absolute BS (imo) too.  We don't know what we don't know.  Get over it.  Let's address what we DO know - and that's vaccines are reducing illness and death in a multitude of scenarios.  Conversely, lack of vaccines is rapidly increasing illness and death in others (India, Brazil, and until we got our vaccine supply and distribution under control, Canada).  Every argument against vaccines is purely opinion and anecdotal.  There are equal amounts of opinions and anecdotal data points *for* vaccines, coupled with actual scientific research, proof and evidence.

[hunnus2000]

Clapton has been talking anti mask/lockdown stuff for months, Often promoting dumb YouTube videos.  Now he claims he had a 6 week negative reaction to the vaccine (of which he never reported at the time).  So basically we have his word for it (a man with a history or racism and abusing his wife might I add) and he clearly has an agenda....

My friend took the vaccine and she now has the uncanny ability to predict things.  Yesterday I turned over a pack of cards and she correctly got 31 ouuta 54 correct!!  Oddly she got nearly all the red suits correct, and barely any of the black.

My Dad told me since the second Vaccine my Mum now speaks fluent German in her sleep, and also hovers slightly above the bed when this happens.

There is a lady down the road from us who owns 3 cats, after she came home from getting the second Vaccine she fussed them all and next morning all 3 were pregnant....even the male one!!!

^^^^^^^^^^
  - I got a kick out of that.

All I have to say about the "we don't know" argument is - DUH! But we DO have an abundance of information with new data coming in everyday. It's important to know that there is no COVID in the vaccine and it teaches your body how to fight the disease and then it leaves your body. It's highly unlikely there will be long term effects from the vaccine but we will know more as time passes.

BTW - I just want to ask these people that question the speed of which the vaccine was made or any other criticism, 'since when did you become an expert'?

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm so tired of the stupidity and criticism of these vaccines.  Take them, don't take them, whatever.  But stop trying to discredit them somehow.  A whole bunch of people with MD's and PhD's created them and they know a hell of a lot more than someone that takes medical advice from Jenny McCarthy.

Or Eric Clapton apparently.

Only two things in life are certain... death and taxes.  This whole "we don't know" argument is absolute BS (imo) too.  We don't know what we don't know.  Get over it.  Let's address what we DO know - and that's vaccines are reducing illness and death in a multitude of scenarios.  Conversely, lack of vaccines is rapidly increasing illness and death in others (India, Brazil, and until we got our vaccine supply and distribution under control, Canada).  Every argument against vaccines is purely opinion and anecdotal.  There are equal amounts of opinions and anecdotal data points *for* vaccines, coupled with actual scientific research, proof and evidence.

And vaccinated people are masking up and ignoring that scientific data. Am I calling them stupid, and making fun. No.

I am pointing out that not everyone who isn't taking the vaccine is stupid.

What this is, is trust and taking their word for it. You can choose to believe them or not. That's your decision. You can choose to believe all the people telling you about what exactly happened to them. Are they easily dismissed because they are talking about what happened to them? Apparently so.

But, also...vaccinated people have a higher rate of matching up on Cupid.com...and now you can filter the vaccinated from the non-vaccinated, but filtering by race is bad. 

How's that for information and data. 

[lonestar]

Yeah, it says they don't know the long term side effects, but then goes to list in very simple layman's terms all the reasons why they are certain there won't be any. If they actually went into the exact reasons in clinical terms, our dipshit unscientific minds wouldn't be able to understand it (except for maybe the few PHD's in the mix here). I mean, I have a smidgen of science from a very good Uni, so I can kinda grasp the concepts laid out, and see how the product is safe, but the constant speculation of why shit won't work and doubting science (when the scientific process is designed to constantly doubt itself anyways) helps fucking nobody, especially the large majority of Americans whose scientific background leads them to want food with DNA to be labeled... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/01/17/over-80-percent-of-americans-support-mandatory-labels-on-foods-containing-dna/

[Ben_Jamin]

Yeah, it says they don't know the long term side effects, but then goes to list in very simple layman's terms all the reasons why they are certain there won't be any. If they actually went into the exact reasons in clinical terms, our dipshit unscientific minds wouldn't be able to understand it (except for maybe the few PHD's in the mix here). I mean, I have a smidgen of science from a very good Uni, so I can kinda grasp the concepts laid out, and see how the product is safe, but the constant speculation of why shit won't work and doubting science (when the scientific process is designed to constantly doubt itself anyways) helps fucking nobody, especially the large majority of Americans whose scientific background leads them to want food with DNA to be labeled... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/01/17/over-80-percent-of-americans-support-mandatory-labels-on-foods-containing-dna/

I can't read that because it's behind a paywall.

So your calling the average layman person stupid and too dumb to actually comprehend and understand scientific lingo. And they are therefore lower class of people, whom can't think for themselves and need the scientific and smart minds to think for them. Because that's what it sounds like to me. 

People are not stupid. And not everyone I consider stupid. Every person has the ability to learn and understand even the most complicated of things.

Science, is just a way for us humans to better understand The World we live in. What makes dirt, dirt, and what makes us humans, these DNA and organisms that collectively make up our entire universe. It's not 100% fact. It's the information that is factual at that current time in life. But people make it out to be, and dismiss everything else as false and fake.

Ancient Civilizations had knowledge big Science and even Knowledge that people of today can't comprehend or send to understand. This is knowledge that for some reason was forgotten. We were once that connected to the Earth that we knew these things already.

Science, is starting to prove these things. Like how we react to the energy's produced by the sun, which are your solar flares and radiation. The Earths magnetic poles are not where we once thought they were. They shifted and moved. This has happened before, only the poles shifted and are now shifting back to the opposite ends. This current world we live in has magnetic poles that are switched. This is just the planet changing and evolving. Not anything to do with us humans.

People want DNA to be labelled because everything we eat does have DNA in it. These DNA molecules and genes affect our bodies in many different ways and some of those DNAs are beneficial for us and some are not. It's better to be informed than ignorant right?

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/mandatory-labels-on-foods-containing-dna-80-of-americans-support-that-011915.html

This article mentions that people whom are ignorant and gullible, are susceptible to being played and joked with for their ignorance. It goes on to say how You can easily do this by taking advantage of peoples ignorance of Scientific Terms, by making them sound bad, when it's a necessity for life. It's mind manipulation at it's finest. And it's the Smart taking advantage and preying on the ignorant "stupid" people.

And this all trickles down to our fabulous education system, because these dipshit unscientific minds are the product of Americas education factory.

[lonestar]

And this all trickles down to our fabulous education system, because these dipshit unscientific minds are the product of Americas education factory.

Exactly my point.

[Adami]

And this all trickles down to our fabulous education system, because these dipshit unscientific minds are the product of Americas education factory.

Exactly my point.

And the American education system is a product of American values.

[lonestar]

And this all trickles down to our fabulous education system, because these dipshit unscientific minds are the product of Americas education factory.

Exactly my point.

And the American education system is a product of American values.

No argument here.

[Stadler]

I'm so tired of the stupidity and criticism of these vaccines.  Take them, don't take them, whatever.  But stop trying to discredit them somehow.  A whole bunch of people with MD's and PhD's created them and they know a hell of a lot more than someone that takes medical advice from Jenny McCarthy.

It's really sad when my kids' pediatrician's office has to put this infographic out and debunk a bunch of stuff to try and tell parents that it's safe and tested and effective.  And it's honestly good advice for adults to read this as well.

She's still pretty freakin' hot, though. 

[Stadler]

I'm so tired of the stupidity and criticism of these vaccines.  Take them, don't take them, whatever.  But stop trying to discredit them somehow.  A whole bunch of people with MD's and PhD's created them and they know a hell of a lot more than someone that takes medical advice from Jenny McCarthy.

Or Eric Clapton apparently.

Only two things in life are certain... death and taxes.  This whole "we don't know" argument is absolute BS (imo) too.  We don't know what we don't know.  Get over it.  Let's address what we DO know - and that's vaccines are reducing illness and death in a multitude of scenarios.  Conversely, lack of vaccines is rapidly increasing illness and death in others (India, Brazil, and until we got our vaccine supply and distribution under control, Canada).  Every argument against vaccines is purely opinion and anecdotal.  There are equal amounts of opinions and anecdotal data points *for* vaccines, coupled with actual scientific research, proof and evidence.

But, while I agree about the arguments, at the end of the day, we're all allowed to make our own determination what goes into our body.   People drink urine because they think it has a health effect.  Other people don't eat meat because they think all in, they are healthier for not doing so.   I don't agree with either of those, and scientific research, proof and evidence tends to support me, but I don't have a say in ANY of it as regards OTHER people.

Oh, and I'll welcome your support in the other threads when I give scientific research, proof and evidence as to the better approaches to some of the other problems facing our society - like guns, media bias and racism - and people aren't interested in hearing about it.     (I'm poking at you, in a friendly way.)

[TAC]

It's official..one more week of having to wear my mask at work!!

[KevShmev]

Nice! We got to stop wearing them a week ago, and it felt weird at first.  I had gotten to used so wearing it around the office that for the first few days every time I got up to the men's room, printer or kitchen, I looked to the spot on my desk where I always kept the mask, didn't see it there, and was like, "Oh yeah, things are normal again."  For a while anyway...

[Phoenix87x]

Yeah, pretty much all the local businesses around me have dropped them as a requirement and hopefully my work will be doing so soon as well.

[soupytwist]

Interesting bout masks at work.  You guys all US?
Here in the UK where we have had a great vaccination program, and the new cases/people in hospital/deaths has fallen to the point of barely significant - masks in the work place are still required.

[jingle.boy]

Interesting bout masks at work.  You guys all US?
Here in the UK where we have had a great vaccination program, and the new cases/people in hospital/deaths has fallen to the point of barely significant - masks in the work place are still required.

And here in Canada, we're still in a stay-at-home order until June 2 (at least here in Ontario), and then restrictions will be easing slowly in phased / 3-week increments.   If only the government had done this in early Feb with the B117 variant was first observed and taking hold, instead of waiting until mid-April when it was raging across the province, and choking hospitals and ICUs.  We'd be coming out of it NOW, now that over 50% of the population has at least a 1st dose.

Oh, and I'll welcome your support in the other threads when I give scientific research, proof and evidence as to the better approaches to some of the other problems facing our society - like guns, media bias and racism - and people aren't interested in hearing about it.     (I'm poking at you, in a friendly way.)

Sorry mang... I'm slowly weaning myself off of P/R.   

[Stadler]

It's not definite yet, but I may have my first official sanctioned work travel next week; I may call in (for non-COVID reasons) but it's interesting to have to re-incorporate that back into the process again.

I went to get emissions done yesterday morning, and wore my mask into the waiting room and was the only one that had one on (fair play: the people behind the counter were behind plexiglass).   The only employee I saw with a mask was the dude that was actually doing the emissions testing (he looked about 14 years old, too.)

[Ben_Jamin]

"The CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices in a statement dated May 17 said it had looked into reports that a few young vaccine recipients, predominantly adolescents and young adults, and predominantly male, developed myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle.

  The condition often goes away without complications and can be caused by a variety of viruses, the CDC group said.

  CDC monitoring systems had not found more cases than would be expected in the population, but members of the committee on vaccinations felt that healthcare providers should be made aware of the reports of the "potential adverse event," the committee said in the statement.

  It did not say how many people had been affected and recommended further investigation.

  Dr. Amesh Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, said vaccines are known to cause myocarditis and would be important to monitor to see if it is causally related to the vaccine. It is important to look at the risk-benefit ratio, he added. "Vaccines are going to unequivocally be much more beneficial outweighing this very low, if conclusively established, risk."

  The CDC said the cases typically occurred within four days after receiving the mRNA vaccines. It did not specify which vaccines. The United States has given emergency authorization to two mRNA vaccines, from Moderna Inc and Pfizer/BioNTech. "

https://www.aol.com/news/u-cdc-investigating-heart-problem-223859573-124152650.html

[Harmony]

I listened to an interesting podcast today and I thought maybe some of us might want to engage in a little 'counter factual' exercise that the host and guest on the podcast discussed.  "What might have happened if?"  Could be fun/interesting.  I am removing 2 of the questions because it would be too tempting to get mired down in politics and then it would move the discussion to another section of the board so please - let's work to avoid that and give the mods a bit of a break.

1.  How would the Covid response have been/be different if there were no social media?

2.  How would the Covid response have been/be different if there had been no technology like Zoom, Uber Eats, Amazon.  No online work meeting platforms, no delivery services, no grocery/liquor/weed store pick up.

3.  How would the Covid response have been/be different if North America had been more aware/concerned about Covid-19 in December 2019?

[TAC]

"aware" and "concerned" are two largely different words. Aware means knowing about it, and concerned, to me, means, well, being concerned about it.

[Ben_Jamin]

1. Vastly different. As more people would rely on the TV media, and the Newspapers (which the rise of social media caused it to decline), and whatever information they told to the people. The shaming or pushing would be more public, or it could be people just minding their own business more as people won't find reason to take a picture and gloat. It'd be closer to how it was during the Spanish Flu with regards to media and information the people received.

2. More people would've likely homeschooled their children as the schools are closed. The turmoil of businesses would've hit harder, and many businesses would've closed down. But this plays along with the information the people received about Covid.

3. I do think it was here already. It wasn't until there were tests specifically for Covid-19, that we knew it was here. One thing would've been to see if there was anything to this "unknown flu" people were reporting to have as well. Like if we were to have tested them, including antibody tests, if those were focused on. I think knowing about Antibodies and if people  that did have it based on reported symptoms from the diagnosed as "Unknown Flu" illnesses that people experienced, would've helped in the numbers area, and determination that it's here and was here already. Even before it was known to be Covid-19.

[zerogravityfat]

Went to the Chelsea piers park, had fun with friends without a mask. First normal interaction since March 2020.

[Cool Chris]

I need to think about Harmony's post and revisit it, but something has been gnawing at me this weekend.

My FiL, whom I highly respect and consider wise and thoughtful, if a little judgmental, said he thought [paraphrasing] half of the people who died in the US due to Covid "broke the rules." I know he "broke the rules" regularly, so I am not sure what he was driving at. Did he consider he "broke the rules" to a lesser degree, and thus was never at any significant risk (despite being in ill health himself)? If breaking the rules is not binary but a continuum, at what point are we chastising those who did not meet our standards of rule adherence?

[darkshade]

3 words ended mask mandates.

"Gain of Function"

It's a shame this thing was so politicized. If there were a unified front on this when it first came about we'd have reached this point quite some time ago. Once it was politicized and the media realized how much $$$ they could make off of fear mongering.....it snowballed.

The media realized that a long time ago.

[TAC]

My FiL, whom I highly respect and consider wise and thoughtful, if a little judgmental, said he thought [paraphrasing] half of the people who died in the US due to Covid "broke the rules." I know he "broke the rules" regularly, so I am not sure what he was driving at. Did he consider he "broke the rules" to a lesser degree, and thus was never at any significant risk (despite being in ill health himself)? If breaking the rules is not binary but a continuum, at what point are we chastising those who did not meet our standards of rule adherence?

Half the people that died did not die from breaking the rules. I'd be willing to bet that number is closer to 1-3%.

[Skeever]

Now that we are going out more, kid is in daycare, and so on, I'm discovering that my immune system is just totally rocked. I've had runny nose, itchy throat, coughing, and so on, for like a month now. I guess that's not too much different than it was before all of this and it is allergy season as well but I can't help but feel like I've gotten a rude awakening.

[Grappler]

Now that we are going out more, kid is in daycare, and so on, I'm discovering that my immune system is just totally rocked. I've had runny nose, itchy throat, coughing, and so on, for like a month now. I guess that's not too much different than it was before all of this and it is allergy season as well but I can't help but feel like I've gotten a rude awakening.

My allergies have been awful this spring - the pollenating season was later than usual.  But that is correct - my household went without even a cold for a full year.   The my daughter brought 2-3 colds home from school in a month after the school went back to full, in-person learning for 5 days a week and parents were back to shuffling their sniffling kids off to school.

[cramx3]

"The CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices in a statement dated May 17 said it had looked into reports that a few young vaccine recipients, predominantly adolescents and young adults, and predominantly male, developed myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle.

  The condition often goes away without complications and can be caused by a variety of viruses, the CDC group said.

  CDC monitoring systems had not found more cases than would be expected in the population, but members of the committee on vaccinations felt that healthcare providers should be made aware of the reports of the "potential adverse event," the committee said in the statement.

  It did not say how many people had been affected and recommended further investigation.

  Dr. Amesh Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, said vaccines are known to cause myocarditis and would be important to monitor to see if it is causally related to the vaccine. It is important to look at the risk-benefit ratio, he added. "Vaccines are going to unequivocally be much more beneficial outweighing this very low, if conclusively established, risk."

  The CDC said the cases typically occurred within four days after receiving the mRNA vaccines. It did not specify which vaccines. The United States has given emergency authorization to two mRNA vaccines, from Moderna Inc and Pfizer/BioNTech. "

https://www.aol.com/news/u-cdc-investigating-heart-problem-223859573-124152650.html

This kind of goes along with the bloodclots IMO.  Myocarditis is also a side effect of covid.  It's the reason why Big10 football wasn't going to play because the heart problem could be very bad for a football player.  As the article points out, the cases are about the average of the general population, similar to blood clots.  It's certainly not a good thing, but I don't really find this concerning.  Luckily it also heals itself.