Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 434330 times)

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7140 on: February 22, 2021, 02:06:37 PM »
No motive, just curious, but how are all the less than 65's getting the shot?

My position for the Healthcare company I work for was classified '1A' as I'm in and out of hospitals and sensitive areas in those hospitals for my job. I received 'official' credentials classifying me as '1A'....went online to Missouri's Health department and registered. Within a week I had an appointment. First shot of Pfizer last week.....second one coming on 3/10.


But here's the kicker. I showed up to the local Fire Station where these shots were being administered with my credentials/paper work showing I was 1A.....they didn't aske to see a thing. I walked in.....signed my name.....they scheduled my second shot.....I walked over and got my shot......sat in a chair for 10 minutes and then left. I'm willing to be anyone could have walked in there and got a shot.

My friend noticed the same thing. She saw that the ones administering the shots didn't even look at her papers. Just that she had it and put it on the side in a pile with the others.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7141 on: February 22, 2021, 02:12:04 PM »
NJ is eligible for anyone with underlying conditions.

My best friend and his wife already got their 2nd shots, but they are healthy mid 30 year olds.  I don't know how they got in, he told me his wife found a glitch in the system.  I think they lied about having underlying health issues (or maybe they have some and just lied to me).

Quote
An estimated 60 percent of American adults have at least one chronic medical condition. Obesity is one of the most common underlying conditions that increases one’s risk for severe illness – with about 40 percent of U.S. adults having obesity.  The more underlying medical conditions people have, the higher their risk.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0625-update-expands-covid-19.html


I find it incredibly informational just how many people have at least one chronic medical condition in the US. Why is that?

Oh for sure, my friend is very open with me so I doubt he'd hide having a chronic condition as I know plenty of his other issues which we talk about.  I legit think he just got by because they aren't really checking things.  If the system gets you an appointment, I don't think they are verifying your conditions. He's also not fat at all, nor his wife so it's not obesity.

Also, my parents were telling me that some people have been hanging out near vaccination sites at the end of the day and are sometimes able to get a shot from the leftover vials that need to be used.  I don't know how common that really is, but I can see that happening as hearing it from my parents wasn't the first time I've heard similar stories.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7142 on: February 22, 2021, 02:15:05 PM »
No motive, just curious, but how are all the less than 65's getting the shot?

My position for the Healthcare company I work for was classified '1A' as I'm in and out of hospitals and sensitive areas in those hospitals for my job. I received 'official' credentials classifying me as '1A'....went online to Missouri's Health department and registered. Within a week I had an appointment. First shot of Pfizer last week.....second one coming on 3/10.


But here's the kicker. I showed up to the local Fire Station where these shots were being administered with my credentials/paper work showing I was 1A.....they didn't aske to see a thing. I walked in.....signed my name.....they scheduled my second shot.....I walked over and got my shot......sat in a chair for 10 minutes and then left. I'm willing to be anyone could have walked in there and got a shot.

My friend noticed the same thing. She saw that the ones administering the shots didn't even look at her papers. Just that she had it and put it on the side in a pile with the others.

They didn't even keep my papers....much less ask to see them. I 'assume' since I received the email link (that I had to reply to within 12 hours) that they must have assumed I was 1A and legit because I was notified?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7143 on: February 22, 2021, 02:17:17 PM »
So obesity is an underlying condition?   

<Whistles.   And goes to check CT's policy, because my BMI is about the same as my age.>
   


Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7144 on: February 22, 2021, 03:02:54 PM »
So obesity is an underlying condition?   

<Whistles.   And goes to check CT's policy, because my BMI is about the same as my age.>
 

 :lol

If you can find a loophole, I say, go for it. What are they going to do?...



Also, my parents were telling me that some people have been hanging out near vaccination sites at the end of the day and are sometimes able to get a shot from the leftover vials that need to be used.  I don't know how common that really is, but I can see that happening as hearing it from my parents wasn't the first time I've heard similar stories.

Now that is just interesting. That they feel so fearful they may not make it to get the vaccine in time and go to these lengths because they want it.
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7145 on: February 22, 2021, 03:15:03 PM »
In my small town the State created a survey whereby you gave information about yourself including any health conditions. I have hypertension and am carrying a few extra pounds but wifey has asthma and immuno-compromised. We got our first shot (Moderna) a few weeks back and Wednesday we get our second shot. She is textbook where health things are concerned so I expect her to go through some stuff unless we've already had it like I posted earlier. I think our county health center looked at it and said 'she's high risk but let's vaccinate both of them' which would make sense to me.


Offline lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7146 on: February 22, 2021, 06:03:44 PM »
Well...I'm eligible for a vaccine now in both counties I work in as well as in the one I live in. Too bad there aren't any appointments.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7147 on: February 22, 2021, 06:09:17 PM »
Well...I'm eligible for a vaccine now in both counties I work in as well as in the one I live in. Too bad there aren't any appointments.

Can you get in line though or schedule something further out? or is it all just check each day for an appointment?

I have not even looked into scheduling one for myself so I haven't seen how it works locally, but I hear you can make appointments but they just might be months out.  If anything, I'd say it's good to at least secure a date even if it's not anytime soon just so you can get locked in.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7148 on: February 23, 2021, 12:43:25 AM »
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7149 on: February 23, 2021, 06:58:24 AM »
Well...I'm eligible for a vaccine now in both counties I work in as well as in the one I live in. Too bad there aren't any appointments.

Can you get in line though or schedule something further out? or is it all just check each day for an appointment?

I have not even looked into scheduling one for myself so I haven't seen how it works locally, but I hear you can make appointments but they just might be months out.  If anything, I'd say it's good to at least secure a date even if it's not anytime soon just so you can get locked in.

It's all appointments. I think they'll open up significantly in the coming week, the freeze really put a crowbar in the machinery

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7150 on: February 23, 2021, 08:24:13 AM »
So obesity is an underlying condition?   

<Whistles.   And goes to check CT's policy, because my BMI is about the same as my age.>
 

 :lol

If you can find a loophole, I say, go for it. What are they going to do?...



Also, my parents were telling me that some people have been hanging out near vaccination sites at the end of the day and are sometimes able to get a shot from the leftover vials that need to be used.  I don't know how common that really is, but I can see that happening as hearing it from my parents wasn't the first time I've heard similar stories.

Now that is just interesting. That they feel so fearful they may not make it to get the vaccine in time and go to these lengths because they want it.

NOT NECESSARILY REFERRING TO ANYONE HERE (at least I don't think) but I get so much pleasure watching humans rationalize things.   I've heard a lot of people complaining about the distribution, and how a fair number of people have "jumped the line", but if you think about it....   the suspension of individual liberty and bodily autonomy is based on the idea that the vaccines are not about any one person, but about the collective.  So from that logic it really doesn't matter if someone jumps the line; it's more important that the vaccine gets delivered, as long as it goes to SOMEONE.  The quicker we get to "herd immunity", the quicker everyone benefits.   If we're concerned about individuals and their place in line, then doesn't it follow that we should be concerned about those that don't want a place in line?   

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7151 on: February 23, 2021, 08:29:31 AM »
I agree Stadler, although the idea to do the most vulnerable first does make sense, however, just getting the vaccine into anyone is important and beneficial. While I may be question how my friend got his shots, I don't really fault him for getting them (or anyone else).  Even Fauci had stated that limiting the vaccine to certain people is slowing down the process because it takes time to figure out who's eligible instead of just giving the vaccine to anyone.  That's why NJ just stopped with doing only the elderly and opened it up to anyone with underlying conditions.  Just get the shots into the people who want them as soon as possible.  Also since the science is starting to show that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus, it's just as important to get a healthy person vaccinated vs. sickly in terms of slowing down the spread which then in return also helps the vulnerable people even if they haven't been vaccinated. 

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7152 on: February 23, 2021, 09:03:39 AM »
Also, my parents were telling me that some people have been hanging out near vaccination sites at the end of the day and are sometimes able to get a shot from the leftover vials that need to be used.  I don't know how common that really is, but I can see that happening as hearing it from my parents wasn't the first time I've heard similar stories.

and just read this:

Quote
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/amanda-kloots-covid19-vaccine-criticism-231541801.html

Quote
"I received so many DMs from people, saying ‘I did not know that you could go wait to see if people didn’t show up for appointments to get this vaccine. I did not know that they throw out vaccines at the end of the day if people don’t show up for their appointment. I did not know that you could get on a waiting list and get possibly called if somebody didn’t show up for an appointment. I didn’t know that this vaccine has a shelf life, that it would be thrown in the trash if it isn’t used," Kloots said. "So that awareness around this topic, I mean, it’s such a beautiful thing, and if my post had to get some shame in order to bring that awareness, I’m happy that that happened.”

Kloots said she also received messages from doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers confirming the stories about unused vaccines. So it surprised her that some people were up in arms.

"It just boggles my mind that anyone would rather see the vaccine go to waste than go into an arm," she said.

Bingo on the bold, we shouldn't hold it against others who get the shot even if they aren't vulnerable or part of the state's designated group.  Vaccinate someone or let it go to waste? Is it really that difficult to see the better answer here. Although it boggles my mind that people would skip their appointments....

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7153 on: February 23, 2021, 09:05:43 AM »
I agree Stadler, although the idea to do the most vulnerable first does make sense, however, just getting the vaccine into anyone is important and beneficial. While I may be question how my friend got his shots, I don't really fault him for getting them (or anyone else).  Even Fauci had stated that limiting the vaccine to certain people is slowing down the process because it takes time to figure out who's eligible instead of just giving the vaccine to anyone.  That's why NJ just stopped with doing only the elderly and opened it up to anyone with underlying conditions.  Just get the shots into the people who want them as soon as possible.  Also since the science is starting to show that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus, it's just as important to get a healthy person vaccinated vs. sickly in terms of slowing down the spread which then in return also helps the vulnerable people even if they haven't been vaccinated.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Until the next Novel Virus comes along and we start this process all over again.

And now they're gonna Pool whatever's left of one vaccine and another to get enough of a dose to inject into someone whom wants it.

https://www.aol.com/pharmacists-pooling-covid-vaccines-could-233737892.html

« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 09:20:58 AM by Ben_Jamin »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7154 on: February 23, 2021, 09:40:18 AM »
I agree Stadler, although the idea to do the most vulnerable first does make sense, however, just getting the vaccine into anyone is important and beneficial. While I may be question how my friend got his shots, I don't really fault him for getting them (or anyone else).  Even Fauci had stated that limiting the vaccine to certain people is slowing down the process because it takes time to figure out who's eligible instead of just giving the vaccine to anyone.  That's why NJ just stopped with doing only the elderly and opened it up to anyone with underlying conditions.  Just get the shots into the people who want them as soon as possible.  Also since the science is starting to show that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus, it's just as important to get a healthy person vaccinated vs. sickly in terms of slowing down the spread which then in return also helps the vulnerable people even if they haven't been vaccinated.

Actually, with that last piece, it almost makes more sense to vaccinate the healthy.  Look at me and my parents; my parents are both first in line in terms of the qualifications (though they haven't been able to get an appointment yet).   But they spend most of most of their days sitting in armchairs watching NCIS reruns.   Me, though, relatively healthy, I'm working.  I have a family.  I have kids.   I have more contact in a day with third parties than they do in a week.   My kid, even more compelling, since she's in college.  Between her school, her housemates, traveling home (frequently) and her work at home (she works for a restaurant) she sees more in a day that I see in a week, and my parents in probably a MONTH or more.  I would gladly give my shot to my parents, and I am on the Publix website three times a week to get them in line (they live in a different state) but we've got to pick our criteria (and in this way, I see one fault in delegating this to the states, since the standards can be very different; for example, my state has no provision for "underlying conditions").

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7155 on: February 23, 2021, 09:55:41 AM »
I agree Stadler, although the idea to do the most vulnerable first does make sense, however, just getting the vaccine into anyone is important and beneficial. While I may be question how my friend got his shots, I don't really fault him for getting them (or anyone else).  Even Fauci had stated that limiting the vaccine to certain people is slowing down the process because it takes time to figure out who's eligible instead of just giving the vaccine to anyone.  That's why NJ just stopped with doing only the elderly and opened it up to anyone with underlying conditions.  Just get the shots into the people who want them as soon as possible.  Also since the science is starting to show that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus, it's just as important to get a healthy person vaccinated vs. sickly in terms of slowing down the spread which then in return also helps the vulnerable people even if they haven't been vaccinated.

Actually, with that last piece, it almost makes more sense to vaccinate the healthy.  Look at me and my parents; my parents are both first in line in terms of the qualifications (though they haven't been able to get an appointment yet).   But they spend most of most of their days sitting in armchairs watching NCIS reruns.   Me, though, relatively healthy, I'm working.  I have a family.  I have kids.   I have more contact in a day with third parties than they do in a week.   My kid, even more compelling, since she's in college.  Between her school, her housemates, traveling home (frequently) and her work at home (she works for a restaurant) she sees more in a day that I see in a week, and my parents in probably a MONTH or more.  I would gladly give my shot to my parents, and I am on the Publix website three times a week to get them in line (they live in a different state) but we've got to pick our criteria (and in this way, I see one fault in delegating this to the states, since the standards can be very different; for example, my state has no provision for "underlying conditions").

I have to admit that I have had the same thought. We have been doing most of the running around shopping for wife's parents. They live way out in the country and hardly see anyone. I thought it made more sense for us to get vaccinated before them so we could continue to help them. It's a moot point since they got their shots anyway but you're not alone in having that thought.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7156 on: February 23, 2021, 11:20:36 AM »
I agree Stadler, although the idea to do the most vulnerable first does make sense, however, just getting the vaccine into anyone is important and beneficial. While I may be question how my friend got his shots, I don't really fault him for getting them (or anyone else).  Even Fauci had stated that limiting the vaccine to certain people is slowing down the process because it takes time to figure out who's eligible instead of just giving the vaccine to anyone.  That's why NJ just stopped with doing only the elderly and opened it up to anyone with underlying conditions.  Just get the shots into the people who want them as soon as possible.  Also since the science is starting to show that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus, it's just as important to get a healthy person vaccinated vs. sickly in terms of slowing down the spread which then in return also helps the vulnerable people even if they haven't been vaccinated.

Actually, with that last piece, it almost makes more sense to vaccinate the healthy.  Look at me and my parents; my parents are both first in line in terms of the qualifications (though they haven't been able to get an appointment yet).   But they spend most of most of their days sitting in armchairs watching NCIS reruns.   Me, though, relatively healthy, I'm working.  I have a family.  I have kids.   I have more contact in a day with third parties than they do in a week.   My kid, even more compelling, since she's in college.  Between her school, her housemates, traveling home (frequently) and her work at home (she works for a restaurant) she sees more in a day that I see in a week, and my parents in probably a MONTH or more.  I would gladly give my shot to my parents, and I am on the Publix website three times a week to get them in line (they live in a different state) but we've got to pick our criteria (and in this way, I see one fault in delegating this to the states, since the standards can be very different; for example, my state has no provision for "underlying conditions").

I have to admit that I have had the same thought. We have been doing most of the running around shopping for wife's parents. They live way out in the country and hardly see anyone. I thought it made more sense for us to get vaccinated before them so we could continue to help them. It's a moot point since they got their shots anyway but you're not alone in having that thought.

This brings up discussion about those living in Cities, which are congested with people, and those that live in Rural areas, less congested with people. And the self-reliance each of those people have. Rural people tend to have more self-reliance, as they will fend for themselves. While city folk, tend to rely on others for basic needs. There is a difference in attitude from a city person to a rural/country person.

So with this in mind. The more likely you are going to be around people, the more likely you will catch the disease they may have, if it is contagious.

It is impossible to get rid of a virus completely, if we did, we wouldn't need to take vaccines when we go to say Africa, or the Jungle in the Amazon. Yet, those people are still alive and surviving, albeit some are barely struggling, and that isn't our fault per se. Well, the amazon forest being depleted is our fault.

Would our Native race have still survived a virus if we were left to our own devices, which would have been our natural remedies? What makes one feel they are obligated to help the other, when the other doesn't want that help, and wants to be left alone? What makes them become the savior in saving humanity?




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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7157 on: February 23, 2021, 12:09:17 PM »
But smallpox, tho - it's a virus and it's been eradicated from the world.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7158 on: February 23, 2021, 08:04:47 PM »
But smallpox, tho - it's a virus and it's been eradicated from the world.

Quote
In addition, a natural pox virus might potentially evolve into a fatal illness, in which case samples of smallpox for comparison might be very useful when developing a vaccine.

https://www.wisegeek.com/is-there-still-smallpox-in-the-world.htm

That doesn't sound eradicated to me. It's still around, and is a concern for biological warfare.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7159 on: February 24, 2021, 07:00:41 AM »
Interesting article about what's being termed "COVID Zero", or eradicating COVID.   Short answer: not going to happen.

But as the article says, Israel, which is much further down the road of "herd immunity" seems to be honing in on a post-vaccine world rate of about 3.5 cases for every 100,000 requiring hospitalization.  Compared with flu - which, after the vaccine is wide-spread IS a viable comparison - we typically look at about 150 out of 100,000 hospitalized every season.   

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7160 on: February 24, 2021, 07:45:06 AM »
Yea, pretty much every virologist says covid is going to be endemic so it's here to stay, but with the vaccines today and maybe adjustments for mutations in the future, we can be positioned so it's not really too dangerous anymore. 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7161 on: February 24, 2021, 07:52:43 AM »
No motive, just curious, but how are all the less than 65's getting the shot?  Connecticut announced today that 55 and over can start signing up on March 1, and 45 and older on March 22.  Are other states ahead of that schedule?

Anyone in those states need a roommate?   :) :)
My younger brother got his because he was spending time in a rehab hospital for a meniscus injury and blood infection.  Most of the patients there are elderly, so they all got their shots and the healthcare workers got theirs, and they had enough extra doses to give him his, even thought it wasn't yet "time" for it. 
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7162 on: February 24, 2021, 09:37:53 AM »
Interesting article about what's being termed "COVID Zero", or eradicating COVID.   Short answer: not going to happen.

But as the article says, Israel, which is much further down the road of "herd immunity" seems to be honing in on a post-vaccine world rate of about 3.5 cases for every 100,000 requiring hospitalization.  Compared with flu - which, after the vaccine is wide-spread IS a viable comparison - we typically look at about 150 out of 100,000 hospitalized every season.

Quote
In coming months, COVID will probably recede, as a result of vaccinations and growing natural immunity. But it will not disappear.

What does this mean?....

Quote
And yet the seasonal flu does not bring life to a halt. It does not keep people from flying on airplanes, eating in restaurants, visiting their friends or going to school and work.

The vaccines will not produce “COVID zero.” But they are on pace — eventually, and perhaps even by summer — to produce something that looks a lot like normalcy. The extremely rare exceptions won’t change that, no matter how much attention they receive.

As Dr. Stefan Baral, a public health researcher and infectious disease expert, put it on Twitter: “Risk assessment? Absolutely! Risk mitigation? Absolutely! Risk management? Absolutely! Risk communication? Absolutely! Risk Elimination? Impossible.”


It's why Scientists and Doctors are starting to look at foods and our gut bacteria. Because, if viruses have been around since the beginning of time, and the Health Practices we follow today weren't around until the 1800's, how did those people survive?

Also, Europeans are known to have not been sanitary people, they were gross, and full of sicknesses because of that. It's how they brought diseases throughout the world. Places didn't have these diseases until the Europeans colonized the world.

What they did use was Natural Remedies, even the Greeks knew this and would use plants as remedies.

All the vaccines are there for is to manage it and get normalcy back. Whatever that normalcy is exactly, is up for debate?...and some don't want to go back and want a new normal.

So why fear it, when it's not going away. Just learn to manage it with whatever way you can. Be it through the Health Industry or through the use of Holistic Health Practices, and Food Nutrition and Diet.

Here's a good video on a Navajo Elder talking about Natives and Health and Disease.

Native Americans and Disease Pandemics of the Past (Navajo)


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Offline Lonk

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7163 on: February 24, 2021, 10:19:44 AM »
Quote
In coming months, COVID will probably recede, as a result of vaccinations and growing natural immunity. But it will not disappear.

What does this mean?....

As more and more people become infected and survive the virus, those same people acquired temporary natural immunity since they have antibodies. The more people with antibodies, the less the virus can spread and cause illness.

It's why Scientists and Doctors are starting to look at foods and our gut bacteria. Because, if viruses have been around since the beginning of time, and the Health Practices we follow today weren't around until the 1800's, how did those people survive?
Most people did not survive. Life expectancy back them was low, look at the link below. There is not data for the US for 1800, but life expectancy in 1860's was in the below 40.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040079/life-expectancy-united-states-all-time/#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20160%20years,to%2078.9%20years%20in%202020.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=map&region=World
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7164 on: February 24, 2021, 11:02:43 AM »
A few personal updates after my meeting with my boss today....

Our company is not returning to the office this year.  Last announcement was for July the earliest, now they are saying 2022.  Part of it is because the company is going to transition to permanantly work from home for many people and they are giving back office space, the other part is that even though the outlook is bright for things coming back to normal before the end of the year, there's still concerns for mutations so instead of prepping to go back, they are being safe and saying not this year.

Also, back when the pandemic started and there were strict lockdowns here, I had to get paperwork saying I'm a critical infrastructure worker in case I got pulled over for being on the roads or anything as I've been coming into work throughout all this.  Well, because of that, the company is looking to get our team vaccinated if we want to.  They will get the paperwork as an essential worker so I can get it sooner if I wanted it.  I said I do, so I may be getting my vaccine sooner than I expected although there is no timeline for that.   

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7165 on: February 24, 2021, 11:44:36 AM »
But smallpox, tho - it's a virus and it's been eradicated from the world.

Quote
In addition, a natural pox virus might potentially evolve into a fatal illness, in which case samples of smallpox for comparison might be very useful when developing a vaccine.

https://www.wisegeek.com/is-there-still-smallpox-in-the-world.htm

That doesn't sound eradicated to me. It's still around, and is a concern for biological warfare.


OK, well, that's nice but I didn't say "smallpox doesn't exist anywhere" I said it's been eradicated from the world.  There are no active cases anywhere.  You're deliberately misreading my entire point, though, which was not whether or not smallpox still exists in a fucking lab somewhere.  The point was viruses can indeed be eradicated.


From the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease


Quote
Currently, there is no evidence of naturally occurring smallpox transmission anywhere in the world. Although a worldwide immunization program eradicated smallpox disease decades ago, small quantities of smallpox virus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia.


Both of these facts are true:


Smallpox has been eradicated for decades through worldwide immunization.


Smallpox virus samples exist in labs <--That's not in dispute


The dispute was whether or not viruses can be eradicated.  It's been proven -conclusively, I might add- that they can.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7166 on: February 24, 2021, 02:53:29 PM »
I think the word "eradicated" might have been misinterpreted with its use in the sentence "eradicated from the world".  To me that means completely gone, but when you put it in the context of "eradicated from the general population, but not completely gone" makes more sense.  But, if it were ever introduced back into the general population for whatever reason (god forbid), then "eradicated" becomes a term that perhaps wasn't fully realized.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7167 on: February 24, 2021, 03:20:47 PM »
To me "Eradicated" means gone from the world.  The fact that it still exists in labs is besides the point. 


The initial argument that was being made was that "no virus can ever be completely wiped out" and my point was simply that THAT statement -that "no virus can ever be completely wiped out" is disproved by the fact that Smallpox has, in fact, been completely wiped out.  It only exists in labs, not in the wild.  i.e. Eradicated from the world.  There are no known cases of active transmission of Smallpox anywhere on the planet.  I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and posit that meets the criteria of being eradicated.


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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7168 on: February 24, 2021, 03:22:13 PM »
That said, I realize not everyone here is a native english speaker so some of the nuance is probably lost in translation sometimes. 

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7169 on: February 24, 2021, 03:26:09 PM »
this has been a test of the emergency broadcast system                              this has been a test of the emergency broadcast system                              this has been a test of the emergency broadcast system
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 03:55:04 PM by The Walrus »
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7170 on: February 24, 2021, 11:30:26 PM »
To me "Eradicated" means gone from the world.  The fact that it still exists in labs is besides the point. 


The initial argument that was being made was that "no virus can ever be completely wiped out" and my point was simply that THAT statement -that "no virus can ever be completely wiped out" is disproved by the fact that Smallpox has, in fact, been completely wiped out.  It only exists in labs, not in the wild.  i.e. Eradicated from the world.  There are no known cases of active transmission of Smallpox anywhere on the planet.  I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and posit that meets the criteria of being eradicated.



I get what you mean by that, and yeah if you think of it like that, yes it is eradicated from human transmission, at the moment.

I'll admit I am skeptical of these type of things.

Are we so sure that these people went everywhere in the world, and "eradicated" it. Or are they just claiming just to say "yay we cured the world". When there is no evidence at all either for whether these people were already healthy or already knew of ways to deal with the symptoms and didn't have to worry about the disease because they were doing alright. we don't have that evidence because of the colonization and conquering that happened. There are no records kept for certain areas of the world, so we are not so sure if they had big pandemics or sicknesses of this volume and how they dealt with it. I mean, There are people whom don't even know about us Native people at all, and are still trying to understand us, think about that.


I am not saying I am Anti-Vax either. But I do have concerns. All I am saying is, I personally do not think there is enough that has me convinced to take it. It being mRNA and not anything that has been done before. And having to take it for school isn't a great argument, the public schools are all the poor or less fortunate sometimes have for schooling, and are therefore coerced into making their kids get vaccinated as the school requires it and is mandatory or else they can't attend said public school, because they can't afford a private or charter school, and that public school is all their only option for their childs school and learning. Unless, they take it upon themselves, but they can't because they are working a job to pay for housing...etc....And all that is set by the state. But then, some states are wanting Home School to get vaccinations. https://hslda.org/post/mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-for-homeschoolers-coming

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7171 on: February 25, 2021, 05:56:14 AM »
Re Small Pox:  no known cases reported globally in 45 years.  I'd say that's some pretty good evidence.  What kind of evidence do YOU need - 7B people tested negative?  If your argument is that there could some isolated island in the south pacific that had a case/outbreak, or some tribe deep in the outback or heart of Africa... sure, let's go with that.  ::)

Re a line to draw: I dunno... 100M+ infected, and 2.5M dead in a year - and that's with all the precautions and shutdowns/lockdowns that have taken place.  How's that for a line?

And (well run) private schools also require immunizations.

Sometimes public health trumps personal choices/"freedoms"
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7172 on: February 25, 2021, 07:02:16 AM »

Sometimes public health trumps personal choices/"freedoms"

Quoted for emphasis

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7173 on: February 25, 2021, 08:51:26 AM »
Update:

We got the second shot (Moderna) yesterday and I felt fine yesterday and we woke up this morning and WHOA NELLY!

Body aches, low grade fever, limbs that feel like they are 100lbs a piece - This is EXACTLY what we experienced in August 2019! I realize that I am not sick with the covids but oh my aching head.  :(

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #7174 on: February 25, 2021, 08:57:07 AM »

Sometimes public health trumps personal choices/"freedoms"

Quoted for emphasis

Several of you keep saying that, and nominally it's true, but at least here in the States, it doesn't mean its done without scrutiny, without reservation, and without consideration.   We have too many examples to count of when that happened, and almost* all of them were done diligently, prudently, and adhering to the processes and procedures put in place by the Constitution, legislation, and the courts.    We don't just "do" because some critical mass of the population "feels" like it's a fair trade. 

There are a few standards, but the one for a fundamental right - which is what the right to the privacy of body is - is that there must be a compelling state interest, the infringement (the law) has to be narrowly tailored to fit the state interest, and it has to be the least restrictive means of achieving that state interest.  I'm sorry, don't shoot the messenger, but any one sick person is not a "compelling state interest".   Complete eradication of a virus is likely not a "compelling state interest", for two reasons: one not every virus can be eradicated, and two, we're one country out of 215 someodd countries, and 330 million out of 7.3 BILLION people.  "Herd immunity" may be; but can we achieve herd immunity without FORCING people to take a vaccine they don't want?   I'd like to see that argument, because I don't think so.

* I only say "almost" to be fair; perhaps there's an instance I'm not aware of where this wasn't done.