Coronavirus

[The Walrus]

I've seen that. But my point still remains - what he did was not a good look and it really did convince a lot of rubes out there that everyone's lying to them. And by KNH's logic, not wearing a mask early on should've been lauded, where now it isn't. So just blindly following what people tell you isn't always the best thing to do to avoid 'being part of the problem.' Use your noggin.

[MoraWintersoul]

However, it doesn't change the fact that this virus effects people differently and that it is possible to die from this regardless of what you think your personal health is.

Yup, and even if that were 100% the case (if you're young and healthy this will be like the flu), the list of conditions that put you in the "should watch out" category is very extensive. Diabetes, weight issues, asthma, had pneumonia recently, cardiovascular problems of any kind... I think at least a third of people I know are in one or more of these categories.

[bosk1]

Use your noggin.

Lots of folks out there not doing that, unfortunately.

[The Walrus]

Use your noggin.

Lots of folks out there not doing that, unfortunately.

In a better mood today?  I'M JOKING!

[MirrorMask]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

[Ben_Jamin]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

And some doctors say this and others say another thing. SO who do you trust?

Also, genes affect us differently, its why we as a people are not the same, our genes are affecting how we are susceptible to this virus. I should actually be more worried than you guys.

Also, it's funny watching people freak out over a lockdown, yet we Tribes are doing this regardless. You have Members who are living outside not allowed to come home, and visit. That's an entirely different aspect to this virus, that is affecting them, they may feel like they are being shut out and not included. I still wonder how Africa is faring with this virus?

[Adami]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

Well I don’t think that’s what Fauci was saying. I think he was saying that, until more are mass produced, it’s a higher priority to get certain people masks and if everyone rushed out and got them, you’d have healthcare workers and so forth without. I don’t see that as a problem. Sometimes we make tough decisions.

[MirrorMask]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

And some doctors say this and others say another thing. SO who do you trust?

I trust those who apply the scientific method and study things and analyze things and, when faced with new discoveries, facts or data, are not afraid to change their opinion or admit they were wrong / not exactly right before.

For opinions that never change no matter what, there are religions and conspiracy theories. I accept that scientists might get something wrong at first and then realize their mistakes through studies, analysis and tests.

[The Walrus]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

And some doctors say this and others say another thing. SO who do you trust?

I trust those who apply the scientific method and study things and analyze things and, when faced with new discoveries, facts or data, are not afraid to change their opinion or admit they were wrong / not exactly right before.

For opinions that never change no matter what, there are religions and conspiracy theories. I accept that scientists might get something wrong at first and then realize their mistakes through studies, analysis and tests.

I also agree with this. I also think it's stupid to tell people to wear masks and then say you don't need them (when the real reason is not that you don't need them, but because of a feared - not necessarily even real - supply issue, obfuscating the actual motive behind the statement), when we're talking about a flu-like virus that gets spread through respiratory droplets. It was a dumb thing to say, it created unnecessary distrust and confusion.

[bosk1]

I feel fortunate to have a couple of doctors as good friends that I talk to regularly.  I feel like I have gotten pretty good access to information throughout the process to have a good handle on how to manage the risks of this thing.  For those who want to know, the information is definitely out there and accessible.  It's just a shame that there is so much misinformation out there as well.  I can't tell you how many social media posts I have seen from friends and family that are SO far off base, either in one direction or the other, simply because they see or hear something out there, and just think it is true without vetting it.

[MirrorMask]

I can't tell you how many social media posts I have seen from friends and family that are SO far off base, either in one direction or the other, simply because they see or hear something out there, and just think it is true without vetting it.

Welcome to the current age of social media, where everyone's opinion is worth the same.

(Spoiler: no, it isn't).

[The Walrus]

I can't tell you how many social media posts I have seen from friends and family that are SO far off base, either in one direction or the other, simply because they see or hear something out there, and just think it is true without vetting it.

Welcome to the current age of social media, where everyone's opinion is worth the same.

(Spoiler: no, it isn't).

Everyone's opinion IS worth the same. Just not when you're advocating for things that are provably false. That isn't an opinion, it's misinformation.

[ErHaO]

I feel fortunate to have a couple of doctors as good friends that I talk to regularly.  I feel like I have gotten pretty good access to information throughout the process to have a good handle on how to manage the risks of this thing.  For those who want to know, the information is definitely out there and accessible.  It's just a shame that there is so much misinformation out there as well.  I can't tell you how many social media posts I have seen from friends and family that are SO far off base, either in one direction or the other, simply because they see or hear something out there, and just think it is true without vetting it.

Social media rumors or misinformation are becoming a big problem, not just for corona. Doesn't matter what anyone says on any subject, there will be a significant group believing it because it is what they want to hear. And people believing the same thing find each other and start a larger scale of spread of this misinformation (or even a movement). It worries me greatly that doctors and scientists are getting threats and one of our main news outlets changed to logoless white vans because reporters are apparently not safe anymore.

[jingle.boy]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

And some doctors say this and others say another thing. SO who do you trust?

I trust those who apply the scientific method and study things and analyze things and, when faced with new discoveries, facts or data, are not afraid to change their opinion or admit they were wrong / not exactly right before.

For opinions that never change no matter what, there are religions and conspiracy theories. I accept that scientists might get something wrong at first and then realize their mistakes through studies, analysis and tests.

If the forum had a Like button, I’d click it for this post. 

[bosk1]

Social media rumors or misinformation are becoming a big problem, not just for corona. Doesn't matter what anyone says on any subject, there will be a significant group believing it because it is what they want to hear.

Oh, of course.  And it's not new to social media either.  It's just that social media makes it much easier to spread.  But that type of attitude has been around forever.  Prior to that, the tabloids did the same thing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAkMsrgbaU

[Hyperplex]

Social media rumors or misinformation are becoming a big problem, not just for corona. Doesn't matter what anyone says on any subject, there will be a significant group believing it because it is what they want to hear.

Oh, of course.  And it's not new to social media either.  It's just that social media makes it much easier to spread.  But that type of attitude has been around forever.  Prior to that, the tabloids did the same thing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAkMsrgbaU

I used to think to myself how "the world" became so stupid so quickly, and then I realized it is precisely what bosk said. Peoples' ways of thinking haven't necessarily changed all that much, but the soapbox from which they can voice it has. With the proliferation of social media, EVERYONE has a nearly unlimited range to disperse opinions, emotions, theories, and ideas regardless of merit. Humans have a proclivity towards confirmation bias, and social media and the "real-time internet" have become the perfect vectors for people to exercise that bias, on blast and repeat, for the entire world to see and further spread.

Stupidity hasn't necessarily increased, but its ability to spread has.

[hunnus2000]

Social media rumors or misinformation are becoming a big problem, not just for corona. Doesn't matter what anyone says on any subject, there will be a significant group believing it because it is what they want to hear.

Oh, of course.  And it's not new to social media either.  It's just that social media makes it much easier to spread.  But that type of attitude has been around forever.  Prior to that, the tabloids did the same thing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAkMsrgbaU

I used to think to myself how "the world" became so stupid so quickly, and then I realized it is precisely what bosk said. Peoples' ways of thinking haven't necessarily changed all that much, but the soapbox from which they can voice it has. With the proliferation of social media, EVERYONE has a nearly unlimited range to disperse opinions, emotions, theories, and ideas regardless of merit. Humans have a proclivity towards confirmation bias, and social media and the "real-time internet" have become the perfect vectors for people to exercise that bias, on blast and repeat, for the entire world to see and further spread.

Stupidity hasn't necessarily increased, but its ability to spread has.

These are all good points and what amazes me (although it shouldn't) is the change in people and their behavior especially the last 4 years. It's scary how propaganda can control one's own behavior but the human mind is generally weak.

[Ben_Jamin]

Also in Italy the first indications were "masks are useful only for those who are ill, no need to wear them".

So it's not that Fauci made a personal decision, it was the worldwide consensus of the scientific community at the time.

And some doctors say this and others say another thing. SO who do you trust?

I trust those who apply the scientific method and study things and analyze things and, when faced with new discoveries, facts or data, are not afraid to change their opinion or admit they were wrong / not exactly right before.

For opinions that never change no matter what, there are religions and conspiracy theories. I accept that scientists might get something wrong at first and then realize their mistakes through studies, analysis and tests.

I agree with this. Science is ever changing, as new data can arrive. And if one can admit, they were wrong, and totally screwed up, I admire them for that honesty.

Social media rumors or misinformation are becoming a big problem, not just for corona. Doesn't matter what anyone says on any subject, there will be a significant group believing it because it is what they want to hear.

Oh, of course.  And it's not new to social media either.  It's just that social media makes it much easier to spread.  But that type of attitude has been around forever.  Prior to that, the tabloids did the same thing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAkMsrgbaU

I used to think to myself how "the world" became so stupid so quickly, and then I realized it is precisely what bosk said. Peoples' ways of thinking haven't necessarily changed all that much, but the soapbox from which they can voice it has. With the proliferation of social media, EVERYONE has a nearly unlimited range to disperse opinions, emotions, theories, and ideas regardless of merit. Humans have a proclivity towards confirmation bias, and social media and the "real-time internet" have become the perfect vectors for people to exercise that bias, on blast and repeat, for the entire world to see and further spread.

Stupidity hasn't necessarily increased, but its ability to spread has.

Stupidity has evolved.

[Ben_Jamin]

So our state is doing this for businesses.

The state this week launched a new option for businesses in an attempt to avoid mandatory shutdowns when COVID-19 cases among workers reach certain levels. The business would be allowed to stay open if owners sign an agreement that calls for regular testing among employees and help with state contact tracing efforts.

The health department on Wednesday confirmed that Albertsons grocery stores are participating at all 34 locations in the state. Company officials said the agreement allows them to welcome back customers and workers to the stores that had been closed just in time for Thanksgiving."

https://www.kunm.org/post/thurs-gov-says-thanksgiving-plans-arent-worth-risk-food-banks-get-funding-boost-more?fbclid=IwAR3EJmxF_ebjFizQmZ4euYcViK_wwGQ_iu0eNsc6kxgekvJtJadvn6B-edQ


If the owners don't "sign the dotted line" They can be forced to shut down, but if they don't they best "sign the dotted line" (in their blood) so they can stay open and allow more customers inside...

[MirrorMask]

Speaking of "helping with contact tracing", also in Italy restaurants are supposed to take your details so to warn you if someone got sick at the restaurant.

I never understood if it was mandatory or not - only chinese restaurants obliged and asked me for my data, all the other italian ones, nobody gave a damn about this.

[Ben_Jamin]

Speaking of "helping with contact tracing", also in Italy restaurants are supposed to take your details so to warn you if someone got sick at the restaurant.

I never understood if it was mandatory or not - only chinese restaurants obliged and asked me for my data, all the other italian ones, nobody gave a damn about this.

Same here. I've been to a few that have "Contact Tracing Lists" or sign-up sheets. Some people had done it, but not many at all did. It was funny to see that.

[Stadler]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychiatry-history/202011/support-trump-through-the-lens-narrative-psychology

A very interesting article.  Not wildly different (but with a lot more detail and scholarly basis) than what I've said about there being possible explanations other than "people who aren't me are stupid".   It also suggests that one solution is bridging the gap between the different narratives, and understanding WHY there are people with a different narrative (or that feel the current narrative doesn't fit them) instead of further alienation.   "In-groups and out-groups" (even though he doesn't use that terminology to my recollection).  Fascinating, and fairly basic, since it's been used with some success in other identity politics situations.

[kirksnosehair]

That was a fascinating read 


I have to admit that I am 100% baffled by the fact that 70 million+ saw what happened in the last 4 years and actually thought, "yeah, I want more of this"


To me it's almost the same as getting punched in face and declaring "thank you may I please have another?"  But I had an experience this week that really made me kind of sad.  I'm visiting with my son and grandkids in Georgia this week and my daughter-in-law's grandmother came by the house yesterday and I was very excited to meet her.


Unfortunately it didn't happen.  When she arrived she asked her granddaughter about my wife and me, "are they Democrats or Republicans?" And when she heard the answer she said "well screw them idiots I have no use for them." 


If the last few years have taught me anything it's that life is far, far too short to let something as silly as politics come between family.  My son is about as conservative as they come.  He's a parole officer! What are the odds? 


But even though we missed out on several decades together due to my own stupidity, we're really bonding and neither one of us really gives a shit what the other thinks in terms of political/world views because in the end what difference will it make?  We don't see eye to eye on some stuff and that's OK.  He's still my son and I'm still his dad and I would gladly chop my legs off if he needed them to survive.


To me, that's all that really matters.  The rest is just background noise.

[The Walrus]

With all due respect, that woman is a fucking idiot.

[King Postwhore]

Ugh.  My best friend's wife lost her mother overnight.  Complications with blo0d clots while battling cancer.  They took her arm last week but they couldn't stop the blood clots in her lungs.  I'm heartbroken for them.

[Ben_Jamin]

Unfortunately it didn't happen.  When she arrived she asked her granddaughter about my wife and me, "are they Democrats or Republicans?" And when she heard the answer she said "well screw them idiots I have no use for them." 

If she was past 70. There could be a chance she is prejudiced. Those people were young and grew up in a vastly different time. What's the term...."You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

If the last few years have taught me anything it's that life is far, far too short to let something as silly as politics come between family.  My son is about as conservative as they come.  He's a parole officer! What are the odds? 


But even though we missed out on several decades together due to my own stupidity, we're really bonding and neither one of us really gives a shit what the other thinks in terms of political/world views because in the end what difference will it make?  We don't see eye to eye on some stuff and that's OK.  He's still my son and I'm still his dad and I would gladly chop my legs off if he needed them to survive.


To me, that's all that really matters.  The rest is just background noise.

Yup. I 100% agree with you on this. Sometimes, it's best to just laugh and walk away with a smile, than engage and leave with your energy sucked away and now your day is entirely ruined. 

What you said about family and politics, makes a lot of sense to me. To me, there is something much more deeper within that family structure and bond that goes way beyond mere political disagreements, which those political disagreements trigger the reaction to disown the family and break that bond, it triggers those deeper problems.

[KevShmev]

Ugh.  My best friend's wife lost her mother overnight.  Complications with blo0d clots while battling cancer.  They took her arm last week but they couldn't stop the blood clots in her lungs.  I'm heartbroken for them.

Damn, sorry to hear that, man. 

[Herrick]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychiatry-history/202011/support-trump-through-the-lens-narrative-psychology

A very interesting article.  Not wildly different (but with a lot more detail and scholarly basis) than what I've said about there being possible explanations other than "people who aren't me are stupid".   It also suggests that one solution is bridging the gap between the different narratives, and understanding WHY there are people with a different narrative (or that feel the current narrative doesn't fit them) instead of further alienation.   "In-groups and out-groups" (even though he doesn't use that terminology to my recollection).  Fascinating, and fairly basic, since it's been used with some success in other identity politics situations.

What surprised me the most from that article was the percentage of Republicans who believe Trump won. Looks like more recent polls are down to 50%. I know it's anecdotal (not sure if I'm using that word correctly) but I'm in a group text that's dominated by one person who constantly posts anti-Democrat memes & articles but even he hasn't mentioned anything about the election being rigged. Interesting.

[Cool Chris]

Read a story in the local news, or at least the first couple sentences, which basically said studies show Covid-19 is most often transmitted at home, at the workplace, or at social/professional gatherings. Doesn't that basically cover about 90% of human activity?

[Ben_Jamin]

Read a story in the local news, or at least the first couple sentences, which basically said studies show Covid-19 is most often transmitted at home, at the workplace, or at social/professional gatherings. Doesn't that basically cover about 90% of human activity?

Pretty much...

Edit: Hit the post button early by accident....

Travelling also plays a lot into it. You have people traveling state to state, and that is spreading it. Harder to track the ones traveling by road. Which is why I don't understand why they didn't close all the borders to all states, and restrict all travel until this passes.

[King Postwhore]

Ugh.  My best friend's wife lost her mother overnight.  Complications with blo0d clots while battling cancer.  They took her arm last week but they couldn't stop the blood clots in her lungs.  I'm heartbroken for them.

Damn, sorry to hear that, man. 

Thanks Kev.  It's tough to swallow as she was sent to a rehab center to be sent home for hospice but covid even stunted the family from being there when she passed away.  We will make a very quick stop at the wake and that hurts.  Can't hang with my friends in their time of need.

[Cool Chris]

Covid or not, no one should ever die alone, or be unable to say goodbye to a loved one.

[Ben_Jamin]

Ugh.  My best friend's wife lost her mother overnight.  Complications with blo0d clots while battling cancer.  They took her arm last week but they couldn't stop the blood clots in her lungs.  I'm heartbroken for them.

Damn, sorry to hear that, man. 

Thanks Kev.  It's tough to swallow as she was sent to a rehab center to be sent home for hospice but covid even stunted the family from being there when she passed away.  We will make a very quick stop at the wake and that hurts.  Can't hang with my friends in their time of need.

That's more worse than the sickness, to me. That is a different type of sickness, a sickness of worry. You are seeing more of that due to people being told not to be there for comfort. Some people need that comfort, especially during holidays. Without it, depression can become worse. And you need that Human body contact, not a video conference. That hug alone will help immensely, and they aren't even able to get that. That is if you are that worried about the virus, it's priorities. That's up to you personally whether to risk that or not, and also up to the other person, which more than likely they would rather have, as they need that in the moment and would help them get through it so they won't be going through life mopey and sad. Some people are seeing that risk to be worth it, as they perceive it to be "living life".

I am going to keep saying it, it's why this virus is personal.

It's also why I say we shouldn't be getting upset at what other people decide and choose to do.

[King Postwhore]

As hard as it was to see my mom pass away in front of me, she knew we were all there as a family.  I couldn't imagine dying alone.

[Ben_Jamin]

As hard as it was to see my mom pass away in front of me, she knew we were all there as a family.  I couldn't imagine dying alone.

Sadly, that's the situation with mostly everyone. It's why some are choosing not to even go to the hospital, and are accepting death at home. They would rather die at home and be comfortable there at home, than in a hospital that is hectic and chaotic.