Coronavirus

[MirrorMask]

Insight is.... well, 2020, but I think that this summer the virus should have been killed. I know, people needed to get out, the economy needed to start again and so the tourism industry, but maybe it would have been better to completely sacrifice this summer with closed borders everywhere, and hunting down every single infection until the number was brought down to 0.

I don't remotely understand how viruses and such work, but wouldn't that require every single person on the planet not leaving their homes, meaning no manufacturing, no farming, no food distribution, no mail... literally everyone never crossing their threshold for a period of several weeks? There is no other way this virus could be" killed."

Yeah, maybe a full prolonged lockdown would have killed the entire economy of the world, what I really meant is that the summer was a "free for all" environment, at least in Italy tourist destinations were full, people were travelling - and I've read yesterday that maybe this strand of virus going on in Europe originated in Spain and was brought around by tourists.

As I said, after sacrificing the entire spring, people needed to get out for their own sanity and for the economy (bars, restaurants and hotels). But if this summer was made into a "no fun" summer, and people could still work but not move around that much (in Italy they opened the discos, geez), maybe the numbers would have been brought down even lower to the point that tracing cases would have been even easier.

There was a time in Italy where selected regions had ZERO cases. Not a single one. If nobody moved around that much in those regions, maybe it would have been easier to keep it that way, but as I said - you need the tourism economy to restart as well at a certain point.

[lordxizor]

It's becoming increasingly clear that lockdowns and masks aren't going to stop Covid. Places with much stricter lockdowns than the US are seeing it bounce back. The only thing that will stop this is herd immunity either through a vaccine or the old fashioned way. Personally, I'm not hanging my hat on a vaccine anytime soon. Lock up those at high risk and let it run its course through healthy people. Lockdown areas if hospitals are nearing capacity. Keep some restrictions and limit capacity, but otherwise let people get on with their lives.

[Grappler]

I like that.  She can at least minimize her chances of exposure prior to coming home, which in turn minimizes her chances of bringing anything home with her.  And my employer is offerring free testing for employees and family members.  I still have to read up on what's required, but here's the catch.  She's flying in from a state which our state has on its "risk list" or whatever you call it.  If she flies in, she's supposed to self-quarrantine at home for 14 days.  Does that mean she's not supposed to leave the house even for testing?

And if we take her for a test, I'm sure there' at least a basic questionnaire and it will come out that she just flew in from Virginia, and didn't stay home for 14 days.  What does that mean?  Does she go to jail?  Get a fine?  Because it doesn't make any sense to me to wait 14 days to take the test.  By then, we'll know.

I would think she could leave for a test.  The idea is for her to lay low at home and not be out and about in public, where she could potentially spread the virus.  Does suburban Cook County have the self-quarantine?  I thought it was just the City of Chicago.

Check your county health department's website for more info. 

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, well. Melbourne needed four months non stop of one of the world's strictest lockdowns to bring cases to zero. Serbia had one of the strictest lockdowns in the spring and cases started rising again as soon as it was lifted, because it turns out that, if you require people to go to work and get their own groceries and PPE, if the density of the population is large enough, people will still get infected in stores and on public transport. And if you want them to stay indoors all the time when they're not working, they will infect all the members of their household, because of course they will, in most families there's four or five people living in one 50m2 apartment. Months upon months of that, and it's not a shock someone wants to travel, because what is the difference between sitting in your own apartment and going out for groceries and sitting in the local park at night, vs traveling 45 min in a half-empty plane (where everyone is masked up, unlike your crammed local bus) to a hotel room where you'll also go out for groceries and go out to a beach, out in the open.

Lockdowns are for places that aren't densely populated, because that's the only shot you got to bring infections close to zero, and you'd have to do them for several months, and people have lives that can't be paused for that long. Maybe early on in the crisis, people would have been more receptive to that, now a lockdown would at best be accepted begrudgingly. If there's no pause button on my rent, then there can't be a pause button on whether I go back home to visit my family again, as long as there's a plane willing to take me there. And if there's no pause button on the bar owner's/gym owner's rent, people should still go to bars if they are open, so that the bar owner can at least afford the added cost of disinfectant sprays and masks and added labor by staff. If the government is happy to pay for the costs for every bar or venue they close, then close them, but instead they were "kept open" all this time, so now the govt is not responsible if no one wants to go there and there's no events that can be safely put on in venues, and they have to close forever. If they are just forced to close during the year due to bad business, you owe them nothing. And if people do go there, then you can yell at them for not being responsible and spreading the disease during a news conference, even though there's no way to go out to eat/drink and keep your mask on the entire time. Whatever happens, it's just the people who are to blame.

There are limits to personal responsibility. As I said before, the only actually responsible thing to do is to not see anyone at all or go anywhere where you have to sit in a closed space for a while. In March that wasn't a daunting proposition, we were all shopping in advance, working from home, seeing each other over Zoom, talking about when this will all be over. Now, when we haven't seen anyone, most of us have actually sacrificed a year of travel plans and event attending plans and life plans overall, and we're looking at a year more of this, and there is still a big chance of getting infected because the only counter-measure on the table is "everyone buys their own cloths to wear over their mouths and nose and we lock down when things get really bad", I don't wanna pin this on "people going out partying and not wearing their masks and not being willing to sacrifice just one measly summer". In Germany and France there was a lot of mask wearing and personal responsibility and look at what's happening there now. That's like one bit of the picture, the other bit is that we have no counter-measures that aren't literally from 1918, and pardon me for showing my leftist ass here outside of P/R, but global capitalism hasn't exactly sprung up to come up with all these innovative technological solutions to ease a crisis like this, like we kept hearing it would in the 2010's TED Talks about hypothetical pandemic responses. A speed test was invented in August, and in a lot of countries they don't have one available for people who need them (which would solve a lot of office problems - get tested at the door, go to your factory job if you're negative), but of course freaking Kendall Jenner can get a hundred of those to throw a party. We can't even solve the problem of temporary loneliness.

[MirrorMask]

You make good points. Obviously there isn't a recipe that works for everyone because every nation has a different density of population, healthcare system, general wellbeing (or lack of) of the population etc etc so what proves good somewhere, would not work somewhere else. No one has found magic in a bottle and discovered the perfect way to balance safety and the need for lives to go on. But I'm afraid that we'll have to accept that this is no longer a case of "Well, we'll spend spring locked down and then back to business as usual" (if that wasn't abundantly clear already) and if needs be, we'll have to be cautious this winter, next spring, and next summer again (with the seemingly impossible balance to find between physical and mental sanity, some good moments and some renounces), until it will go away somehow.

[Ben_Jamin]

@Orbert....

Is it possible if she can take a test there, and then fly home?

[DragonAttack]

A cousin in his late 60s died a week ago.  Hadn't taken the best care of himself over the years, and he was an anti-masker.  Cie la vie.

One of my twin nieces has C-19......for the second time!

She finally regained most of her endurance after two months, went back to work part time, and in less than two weeks.....
 

Damn, Joe! WTF??

Yeah, Tim, it is a WTF?  She has Lupus, which makes her more succeptable we guess.  Of all things, she's been taking hydroxychloroquine for a long time.  The irony....

At least our two neighbors who had it are better.  Both in their 50s, much more active and healthier than us.  The husband spent five days in acute care.  Stamina and breathing normal are still issues for him.

TMI perhaps, but I'm going in for a colonoscopy tomorrow.  Yes I'm concerned due to C19.  Quite concerned.  For me and my wife.  Then again, how symbolic of this whole year (plural) that this will be, as well as the chance to 'purge' it out of my system tonight.

[Ben_Jamin]

Insight is.... well, 2020, but I think that this summer the virus should have been killed. I know, people needed to get out, the economy needed to start again and so the tourism industry, but maybe it would have been better to completely sacrifice this summer with closed borders everywhere, and hunting down every single infection until the number was brought down to 0.

I don't remotely understand how viruses and such work, but wouldn't that require every single person on the planet not leaving their homes, meaning no manufacturing, no farming, no food distribution, no mail... literally everyone never crossing their threshold for a period of several weeks? There is no other way this virus could be" killed."

Yeah, maybe a full prolonged lockdown would have killed the entire economy of the world, what I really meant is that the summer was a "free for all" environment, at least in Italy tourist destinations were full, people were travelling - and I've read yesterday that maybe this strand of virus going on in Europe originated in Spain and was brought around by tourists.

As I said, after sacrificing the entire spring, people needed to get out for their own sanity and for the economy (bars, restaurants and hotels). But if this summer was made into a "no fun" summer, and people could still work but not move around that much (in Italy they opened the discos, geez), maybe the numbers would have been brought down even lower to the point that tracing cases would have been even easier.

There was a time in Italy where selected regions had ZERO cases. Not a single one. If nobody moved around that much in those regions, maybe it would have been easier to keep it that way, but as I said - you need the tourism economy to restart as well at a certain point.

That's how the virus was spread. From Residents, Tourists, Visitors, leaving China and taking it home with them. Why else did it come here from the West Coast, and in Washington State. Then the Residents, Tourists, and Visitors from there then drove/flew throughout the state. All this happened before we knew of the 1st Case in the U.S. There could have been nothing we could have done, if it was already here before we had knowledge of a covid case being known...

So closing the borders, wouldn't have helped at all, since it was already here.

Knowing this, the lockdowns were only meant as means to keep us from overworking the hospitals. That is all...

[lonestar]

A cousin in his late 60s died a week ago.  Hadn't taken the best care of himself over the years, and he was an anti-masker.  Cie la vie.

One of my twin nieces has C-19......for the second time!

She finally regained most of her endurance after two months, went back to work part time, and in less than two weeks.....
 

Damn, Joe! WTF??

Yeah, Tim, it is a WTF?  She has Lupus, which makes her more succeptable we guess.  Of all things, she's been taking hydroxychloroquine for a long time.  The irony....

At least our two neighbors who had it are better.  Both in their 50s, much more active and healthier than us.  The husband spent five days in acute care.  Stamina and breathing normal are still issues for him.

TMI perhaps, but I'm going in for a colonoscopy tomorrow.  Yes I'm concerned due to C19.  Quite concerned.  For me and my wife.  Then again, how symbolic of this whole year (plural) that this will be, as well as the chance to 'purge' it out of my system tonight.

Damn man...good luck on the procedure, I always thought the prep was the worst part. Hopefully the election goes the same way...

[Ben_Jamin]

A cousin in his late 60s died a week ago.  Hadn't taken the best care of himself over the years, and he was an anti-masker.  Cie la vie.

One of my twin nieces has C-19......for the second time!

She finally regained most of her endurance after two months, went back to work part time, and in less than two weeks.....
 

Damn, Joe! WTF??

Yeah, Tim, it is a WTF?  She has Lupus, which makes her more succeptable we guess.  Of all things, she's been taking hydroxychloroquine for a long time.  The irony....

At least our two neighbors who had it are better.  Both in their 50s, much more active and healthier than us.  The husband spent five days in acute care.  Stamina and breathing normal are still issues for him.

TMI perhaps, but I'm going in for a colonoscopy tomorrow.  Yes I'm concerned due to C19.  Quite concerned.  For me and my wife.  Then again, how symbolic of this whole year (plural) that this will be, as well as the chance to 'purge' it out of my system tonight.

I don't think the Hydroxy would help her fight the virus if she has Lupus. It's likely why she's still catching the virus. Was she admitted to the hospital? or just fought it off at home?

And, just don't have too much worry, too much worry can cause sickness.

[DragonAttack]

The concerns are, of course, due to the environment I'll be in.  I had two minor surgeries this year, plus a dentist visit, all the safeguards were in place, but there's always the added bit of anxiety that comes into play.  I'll also semi-isolate for a few days afterwards. 

It's the second time I've had 'brain surgery'.     My car runs better after an oil change and transmission flush, so.......it will also force me to isolate myself away from the TV for the vast majority of the evening.  'my music player' and headphones are ready.

[Adami]

And, just don't have too much worry, too much worry can cause sickness.

It's cool that you've found such peace in all of this, but simply telling people to not worry is worth absolutely nothing in the slightest and doesn't accomplish anything. People aren't worrying because they want to worry, they just are. It's not a switch they can turn off. It's not like they'll be like "Wait...you mean DON'T worry? Why.....why I never thought of that before!"


Sorry if that was snarky. Every day I try to help people who feel misunderstood by a world that just tells them to stop feeling whatever it is that’s bothering them.

[kirksnosehair]

The spike in our county is out of sight! Our CIO says work from home where possible and masks are required if you leave your cube or office. We had our first death in IT. People are just not taking it seriously and I think it's from opening up the schools.

There's plenty of blame to lay on the adults as well. My FB and IG feeds this past weekend were filled with fully grown adults (many 40+) who just had to hit the bars and breweries dressed up in costumes for Halloween. I've seen pictures from bars that you would have thought were from Halloween last year given the lack of masks and how shoulder-to-shoulder everyone was. It's kind of infuriating.

Only kind of?  These idiots are putting everyone around them at risk.  Every last one of them is an asshole.  Full stop.

[cramx3]

And, just don't have too much worry, too much worry can cause sickness.

It's cool that you've found such peace in all of this, but simply telling people to not worry is worth absolutely nothing in the slightest and doesn't accomplish anything. People aren't worrying because they want to worry, they just are. It's not a switch they can turn off. It's not like they'll be like "Wait...you mean DON'T worry? Why.....why I never thought of that before!"


Sorry if that was snarky. Every day I try to help people who feel misunderstood by a world that just tells them to stop feeling whatever it is that’s bothering them.

Obviously just saying it won't change someone's feelings (reminds me of telling a previous gf to "relax" and it only made things 10 times worse  ) but from your experience, can you work with people to get them to stop worrying about things that aren't in their control?

[Stadler]

Every day I try to help people who feel misunderstood by a world that just tells them to stop feeling whatever it is that’s bothering them.

A variation on that is pretty much every one of my weekly therapy sessions for the past three months. 

[Adami]

Every day I try to help people who feel misunderstood by a world that just tells them to stop feeling whatever it is that’s bothering them.

A variation on that is pretty much every one of my weekly therapy sessions for the past three months.

STOP FEELING THAT WAY!

[The Walrus]

Every day I try to help people who feel misunderstood by a world that just tells them to stop feeling whatever it is that’s bothering them.

A variation on that is pretty much every one of my weekly therapy sessions for the past three months.

STOP FEELING THAT WAY!

[Orbert]

@Orbert....

Is it possible if she can take a test there, and then fly home?

That's an option, but I'm not sure of the value of it.  She's been living where she is for months now and is virus-free as far as we know.  It's the plane ride and passing through two major airports between there and here that have me concerned, so testing before she leaves won't reveal anything.  There's also the fact that testing too soon after exposure can result in a false negative.  For the virus to show positive, it has to have at least a little time to propogate.  By then, our whole house has been exposed.

One of my friends posted something the other day about celebrating the fact that her daughter was "allowed out" of the in-house quarrantine they'd imposed upon her after travelling.  They have a huge house though, and sequestered her in one wing of it, which I thought was great, but it's not something everyone can do.  But until I saw that, the idea of even attempting to reduce exposure to someone in my own house hadn't even occurred to me, which is what prompted me to ask for advice here.

[Adami]

And, just don't have too much worry, too much worry can cause sickness.

It's cool that you've found such peace in all of this, but simply telling people to not worry is worth absolutely nothing in the slightest and doesn't accomplish anything. People aren't worrying because they want to worry, they just are. It's not a switch they can turn off. It's not like they'll be like "Wait...you mean DON'T worry? Why.....why I never thought of that before!"


Sorry if that was snarky. Every day I try to help people who feel misunderstood by a world that just tells them to stop feeling whatever it is that’s bothering them.

Obviously just saying it won't change someone's feelings (reminds me of telling a previous gf to "relax" and it only made things 10 times worse  ) but from your experience, can you work with people to get them to stop worrying about things that aren't in their control?

I mean, it's complicated. Depending on a bunch of vairables, we can get to where they can stop worrying about SOME stuff. But all stuff outside of our control? No. Every human (for the most part) worries about things outside of their control and doesn't worry about other things.

But I was responding more to Ben's cavalier attitude of him being fine, therefore we should just stop worrying and relax. It doesn't work that way, and it annoys me when people think it does. Someone feeling one way doesn't mean others can just choose to feel that way (or choose to feel any way at all).

[cramx3]

I understand your point to Ben, but was just looking to get your view on being able to work on your emotions such as worrying.  I don't think it's simple, but I was curious if you know that some things can be worked and made better from your experience especially without the use of medication.  Like, is there a way to change the way you think to not worry about certain things?  Is there a good chance of success if you are committed to wanting to change your worrying habits?  What can you do?  That may be a bit more than you want to respond to so feel free to ignore my random thoughts.

[Adami]

I understand your point to Ben, but was just looking to get your view on being able to work on your emotions such as worrying.  I don't think it's simple, but I was curious if you know that some things can be worked and made better from your experience especially without the use of medication.  Like, is there a way to change the way you think to not worry about certain things?  Is there a good chance of success if you are committed to wanting to change your worrying habits?  What can you do?  That may be a bit more than you want to respond to so feel free to ignore my random thoughts.

Nah, this question is a bit easier to answer.

In short? Yes. I help people worry about things less most days. How depends on the person and their therapist. I'm a much more insight oriented person. So I try less to change thoughts and more to understand them in the first place. Once we have a good understanding of why we're doing or thinking or feeling XYZ, it helps create a natural change in whatever direction occurs. But plenty of therapists are more cognitive behavioral and don't care about that and go straight to changing thoughts by changing behaviors that feed into thoughts. It works, though I'm not the biggest fan of it. But yes, it's possible. But like all things, only to some degree.

[cramx3]

Thanks for the response, the human mind is really interesting and confusing at the same time.  Definitely need more people who can help others the way you do, and for people to be more open to that kind of help.  Mental health is so important and I'm not a big fan of just throwing drugs at someone (although I understand it may be necessary).

[Chino]

I was googling therapists the other day. The reviews scared me away 

[Stadler]

I understand your point to Ben, but was just looking to get your view on being able to work on your emotions such as worrying.  I don't think it's simple, but I was curious if you know that some things can be worked and made better from your experience especially without the use of medication.  Like, is there a way to change the way you think to not worry about certain things?  Is there a good chance of success if you are committed to wanting to change your worrying habits?  What can you do?  That may be a bit more than you want to respond to so feel free to ignore my random thoughts.

Nah, this question is a bit easier to answer.

In short? Yes. I help people worry about things less most days. How depends on the person and their therapist. I'm a much more insight oriented person. So I try less to change thoughts and more to understand them in the first place. Once we have a good understanding of why we're doing or thinking or feeling XYZ, it helps create a natural change in whatever direction occurs. But plenty of therapists are more cognitive behavioral and don't care about that and go straight to changing thoughts by changing behaviors that feed into thoughts. It works, though I'm not the biggest fan of it. But yes, it's possible. But like all things, only to some degree.

Part of the work for me - and it's in process, to be sure - is to recognize the feelings themselves and don't judge them.  I find I'm not yet any better at controlling the feeling, but I'm better at identifying them.  I've still got a long way to go.

[Cool Chris]

Coming soon to a theater near you: Dr. Adami, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Covid

[Adami]

I understand your point to Ben, but was just looking to get your view on being able to work on your emotions such as worrying.  I don't think it's simple, but I was curious if you know that some things can be worked and made better from your experience especially without the use of medication.  Like, is there a way to change the way you think to not worry about certain things?  Is there a good chance of success if you are committed to wanting to change your worrying habits?  What can you do?  That may be a bit more than you want to respond to so feel free to ignore my random thoughts.

Nah, this question is a bit easier to answer.

In short? Yes. I help people worry about things less most days. How depends on the person and their therapist. I'm a much more insight oriented person. So I try less to change thoughts and more to understand them in the first place. Once we have a good understanding of why we're doing or thinking or feeling XYZ, it helps create a natural change in whatever direction occurs. But plenty of therapists are more cognitive behavioral and don't care about that and go straight to changing thoughts by changing behaviors that feed into thoughts. It works, though I'm not the biggest fan of it. But yes, it's possible. But like all things, only to some degree.

Part of the work for me - and it's in process, to be sure - is to recognize the feelings themselves and don't judge them.  I find I'm not yet any better at controlling the feeling, but I'm better at identifying them.  I've still got a long way to go.

Don’t try to control them. Not gonna happen. Your first part is great though.

[hunnus2000]

Just found out that my bosses husband currently has the covids and my colleague had the covids. My colleague has no clue where he got it because he isolates, wears a mask and goes to church and teaches Sunday school. 

My bosses husband does the same sans Sunday school. 

[DragonAttack]

^
Best of luck to them and those around them in the days/weeks to follow. 

One can take as many precautions feasibly possible, and still be unlucky.  A two mile drive to the store, with speed limits of 30 MPH on uncongested roads, still has its share of risks.

[MirrorMask]

One can take as many precautions feasibly possible, and still be unlucky. 

Indeed. There are more and more cases of people saying "I was careful, but I took it anyway". There's an opinionist I follow on FB and he said he got it while alone in a new city, without talking to anyone, meeting people or taking the elevator. He still got it.

[hunnus2000]

^
Best of luck to them and those around them in the days/weeks to follow. 

One can take as many precautions feasibly possible, and still be unlucky.  A two mile drive to the store, with speed limits of 30 MPH on uncongested roads, still has its share of risks.

I wish them the best too. I haven't heard from my boss in weeks so it makes me wonder. They also have her elderly dad living with them and he has all kinds of health issues.

Frankly, my comments were meant to be sarcastic because when my colleague told me about going to church and teaching Sunday school, I was thinking 'well there's your answer'. Church activities have been known to spread the virus and I realize someone posted an article where children were unlikely to spread the virus but I still have my doubts. The mayor of our town told me the other day that half of the grade/middle school kids are home because they tested positive.

[hunnus2000]

The State of Missouri is having a statewide push for the covids testing so we went and got tested for the covids. Should take up to 72hrs and I will get a text if I am negative and a phone call if positive.

We did at the request of my mother-in-law who strangely enough isn't getting one.  We aren't experiencing any symptoms.

The process took about an hour but that was mainly waiting in line. The testing was done in the car and I swabbed myself with medical worker overseeing the process. It mainly tickled my nose and there was no need to stick it so far up and scratch my brain and the whole process was managed by the Missouri National Guard.

Fun times.......

[Orbert]

It mainly tickled my nose and there was no need to stick it so far up and scratch my brain

I find this encouraging.  If it comes down to it, or if I have reason to suspect I have it, I'll take the test of course, but I've been dreading that day because sticking things way the fuck up my nose like that weirds me out.  Reports from guys I know who've done the test confirm what it's like.  Eeesh!  I shuddered just now, just thinking about it.  But if the new tests are not so "invasive" then maybe I can relax a little.

[Buddyhunter1]

It mainly tickled my nose and there was no need to stick it so far up and scratch my brain

I find this encouraging.  If it comes down to it, or if I have reason to suspect I have it, I'll take the test of course, but I've been dreading that day because sticking things way the fuck up my nose like that weirds me out.  Reports from guys I know who've done the test confirm what it's like.  Eeesh!  I shuddered just now, just thinking about it.  But if the new tests are not so "invasive" then maybe I can relax a little.

I think they updated the tests a while a back to replace the brain-scooping with some pretty light swabbing. I got tested right before the 4th of July and I was pleasantly surprised at how casual it was compared to the stories I had heard prior to that point.

[hunnus2000]

It's funny, my nose was so tickled that I was about to sneeze but I was afraid that if I did, they would pull out their M-16s, point at me and yell COVID and start shooting!!

I guess I watch too many Sci-Fi movies. 

[Ben_Jamin]

It mainly tickled my nose and there was no need to stick it so far up and scratch my brain

I find this encouraging.  If it comes down to it, or if I have reason to suspect I have it, I'll take the test of course, but I've been dreading that day because sticking things way the fuck up my nose like that weirds me out.  Reports from guys I know who've done the test confirm what it's like.  Eeesh!  I shuddered just now, just thinking about it.  But if the new tests are not so "invasive" then maybe I can relax a little.

It's not bad man. At least, the ones my tribe had got. The first ones we did were more like a Strep Test cotton swab. These latest ones we got were more flatter, softer, and got the mucus sample quicker. My eyes do water though, and it makes my nose feel a bit irritated after, but that is a natural defense as you're not supposed to be stuffing shit up your nose like that anyways.

Unfortunately, it's within our Tribe now, I am not positive. Have no reason to believe I am positive, but either way, it's here. It's inevitable and we are just glad we were able to keep it out as long as we did. I am not worried about it at all, just we are more concerned for our elders, and are doing as much as we can to protect them, that is when they aren't being stubborn like old people usually are (I do not blame them at all though).