Coronavirus

[MirrorMask]

Europe isn't doing better either. Mini lockdowns and restrictions all over the place.

Here too.  Which is crazy, because people in the affected areas of the lockdown are just going to other jurisdictions to get into gyms and other businesses affected by the lockdown.   

Kinda like in Liverpool - what happened the last day before the curfew about pubs came to be? everyone partying all together and drinking in the streets 

Like I saw going around on social media - "We have to retire the expression avoid it like the plague because it turns out people don't do that"

[emtee]

Fauci advises families not to gather for Thanksgiving especially when air travel is involved. I don't anticipate many people heeding that warning.

The fatigue is growing. Every attempt at normalcy creates additional spread. College, school, sporting events, family gatherings...you name it. The world bank said today that the world financial situation is dire.Two vaccine companies have halted trials. Millions of small businesses and even huge conglomerates are standing at the precipice. So are millions of people. Honestly, there isn't much to create positivity right now. As I feared early in this thread, this is shaping up to be one of the most impactful events in human history. Many things will be permanently reshaped when/if this thing is behind us.

[jingle.boy]

Fauci advises families not to gather for Thanksgiving especially when air travel is involved. I don't anticipate many people heeding that warning.

The fatigue is growing. Every attempt at normalcy creates additional spread. College, school, sporting events, family gatherings...you name it. The world bank said today that the world financial situation is dire.Two vaccine companies have halted trials. Millions of small businesses and even huge conglomerates are standing at the precipice. So are millions of people. Honestly, there isn't much to create positivity right now. As I feared early in this thread, this is shaping up to be one of the most impactful events in human history. Many things will be permanently reshaped when/if this thing is behind us.

I can't remember if it was here, or in another article/interview I read (saw) recently.  Small pox is the only disease that humans have ever completely eradicated.  From the start of vaccinations (1958), to the eradication was over 20 years.

This thing won't be behind us for decades.  Humans are going to have to find better ways of living *with* it, without it directly or indirectly destroying humanity.

[gmillerdrake]

This thing won't be behind us for decades.  Humans are going to have to find better ways of living *with* it, without it directly or indirectly destroying humanity.

Maybe this could be a driver to essentially force people to take better care of themselves. I know we've seen/read the random case where the perfectly healthy Mom/Dad/Teenager etc etc has died from Covid but those cases are extremely rare. Most of the deaths there have been underlying issues of obesity and the diseases associated with it like diabetes, cardiac disease, COPD etc etc that are complicated by Covid. Maybe this will help shape peoples decisions as far as health choices? Maybe not.

[cramx3]

This thing won't be behind us for decades.  Humans are going to have to find better ways of living *with* it, without it directly or indirectly destroying humanity.

Maybe this could be a driver to essentially force people to take better care of themselves. I know we've seen/read the random case where the perfectly healthy Mom/Dad/Teenager etc etc has died from Covid but those cases are extremely rare. Most of the deaths there have been underlying issues of obesity and the diseases associated with it like diabetes, cardiac disease, COPD etc etc that are complicated by Covid. Maybe this will help shape peoples decisions as far as health choices? Maybe not.

Considering putting on a mask has been a challenge for many, I don't see the masses making this change for the better of themselves. 

I can't remember if it was here, or in another article/interview I read (saw) recently.  Small pox is the only disease that humans have ever completely eradicated.  From the start of vaccinations (1958), to the eradication was over 20 years.

This thing won't be behind us for decades.  Humans are going to have to find better ways of living *with* it, without it directly or indirectly destroying humanity.

Yea, it's not going away anytime soon.

[gmillerdrake]

Considering putting on a mask has been a challenge for many, I don't see the masses making this change for the better of themselves. 

Yeah.....true. Which is sad.

[hunnus2000]

I read somewhere recently that we that the return to normalcy won't happen until June/July 2021. That's with a vaccine of course and normalcy being defined as interaction with people (concerts etc..)

The number of cases in my small county have doubled the last 2 weeks. And they keep stealing political signs out of people's yards! People suck.....

[Ben_Jamin]

Yeah...

This Virus is proof, humans don't have as much control of the world as we think.

So are we willing to sacrifice our livelihood to be "safe" from the virus?

[Grappler]

So are we willing to sacrifice our livelihood to be "safe" from the virus?

Certain people may have to sacrifice their livelihoods more than others - those in entertainment industries, etc.  it's kind of up to them to figure out how to earn money, the same as anyone.  I'm sure plenty of people have changed careers or figured things out over the last 7 months.

The problem to me is that people don't want to make other sacrifices - keeping socially distant, giving up certain traveling or partying, or not gathering at family parties.  It's frustrating to see how my family has sacrificed and continues to sacrifice, yet others can't stay out of crowded bars to see cover bands.  Just this week, my wife's extended family started planning the big family Christmas party, where 30+ people pack into someone's small house.  It took two other family members to remind everyone that some people have health issues that make it unsafe for them to attend and the family had to be convinced to not plan a gathering this year.

[jingle.boy]

So are we willing to sacrifice our livelihood to be "safe" from the virus?

Certain people may have to sacrifice their livelihoods more than others - those in entertainment industries, etc.  it's kind of up to them to figure out how to earn money, the same as anyone.  I'm sure plenty of people have changed careers or figured things out over the last 7 months.

The problem to me is that people don't want to make other sacrifices - keeping socially distant, giving up certain traveling or partying, or not gathering at family parties.  It's frustrating to see how my family has sacrificed and continues to sacrifice, yet others can't stay out of crowded bars to see cover bands.  Just this week, my wife's extended family started planning the big family Christmas party, where 30+ people pack into someone's small house.  It took two other family members to remind everyone that some people have health issues that make it unsafe for them to attend and the family had to be convinced to not plan a gathering this year.

It's stories like this that convince me humanity is doomed.  I almost long for a Matrix-like existence.

[cramx3]

I read somewhere recently that we that the return to normalcy won't happen until June/July 2021. That's with a vaccine of course and normalcy being defined as interaction with people (concerts etc..)

The number of cases in my small county have doubled the last 2 weeks. And they keep stealing political signs out of people's yards! People suck.....

Summer of 21 honestly doesn't even look good so far.  Even with a vaccine, I just don't have a lot of confidence right now.  Some articles I read said a vaccine may only be 50% effective.  That's not going to stop the virus from spreading especially when there's so many anti-vaxxers here too.  Some articles I read also think heard immunity won't happen because the virus will mutate and anti-bodies don't last long enough.  Who knows, but I definitely do not feel confident on things coming back to normal even in 2021 at this point unless there's some breakthrough.

[jingle.boy]

Same.  Even if a vaccine was available tomorrow, there's no logistical possibility of even producing/distributing/administering the vaccine to 10s/100s of millions, let alone the billions that ultimately need it for the world to get back to "normalcy".  Then factor in the 10s/100s of millions that won't get it (either anti-vaxx, or just plain not wanting v1.0 of something like this).  I mean, how many Apple users updated to iOS 14.0 straight away?

[Stadler]

So are we willing to sacrifice our livelihood to be "safe" from the virus?

Certain people may have to sacrifice their livelihoods more than others - those in entertainment industries, etc.  it's kind of up to them to figure out how to earn money, the same as anyone.  I'm sure plenty of people have changed careers or figured things out over the last 7 months.

The problem to me is that people don't want to make other sacrifices - keeping socially distant, giving up certain traveling or partying, or not gathering at family parties.  It's frustrating to see how my family has sacrificed and continues to sacrifice, yet others can't stay out of crowded bars to see cover bands.  Just this week, my wife's extended family started planning the big family Christmas party, where 30+ people pack into someone's small house.  It took two other family members to remind everyone that some people have health issues that make it unsafe for them to attend and the family had to be convinced to not plan a gathering this year.

Philosophical question here:   why is this all of a sudden bad?   We can list examples of people either we know of or have heard of that have bucked convention, have refused to make the same level of sacrifices that the majority of us have, and we've moved on.  I recognize that the immediate answer is "but people DIE!", and I get that, but something about that answer doesn't really ring true to me.  "Death" - to others or self - hasn't really been a real hinderance in the past, nor has the "cost" to society.  Why would we expect that to be the case now?

If someone says "screw it, YOLO" and foresakes marriage and a job and decides to follow The Dead around the country dosing LSD and banging hippy chicks, is it THAT much different than saying "I'm not letting this virus control my day-to-day"?   As long as everyone involved is eyes-wide-open, I'm not sure what the difference is, even WITH "death" as a possibility.  If my family wants to meet for T-Giving, I can always stay home.

[Grappler]

Philosophical question here:   why is this all of a sudden bad?   We can list examples of people either we know of or have heard of that have bucked convention, have refused to make the same level of sacrifices that the majority of us have, and we've moved on.  I recognize that the immediate answer is "but people DIE!", and I get that, but something about that answer doesn't really ring true to me.  "Death" - to others or self - hasn't really been a real hinderance in the past, nor has the "cost" to society.  Why would we expect that to be the case now?

If someone says "screw it, YOLO" and foresakes marriage and a job and decides to follow The Dead around the country dosing LSD and banging hippy chicks, is it THAT much different than saying "I'm not letting this virus control my day-to-day"?   As long as everyone involved is eyes-wide-open, I'm not sure what the difference is, even WITH "death" as a possibility.  If my family wants to meet for T-Giving, I can always stay home.

Because I feel that it's just prolonging the length of the pandemic.  Plain and simple.  I feel like if people really put an effort into this, then we'd be at a better place right now in this country.  Maybe I'm wrong - some European countries with hard lockdowns are doing bad again.  But having so many people disregarding basic guidelines to try and stay healthy has really bothered me.  I'm not going to debate it - it's just how I feel.  I studied health in college and i believe that certain things like public health transcend politics, and society could come together for the greater good. 

And my family would not have attended a big Christmas party.  We already declined a graduation party from that same side of the family a few months ago.  It just drives me crazy that our governor and health department have flat out said that these family gatherings are continuing the spread the virus and so many people thumb their noses at the information because of the governor's political affiliation.

[MirrorMask]

If someone says "screw it, YOLO" and foresakes marriage and a job and decides to follow The Dead around the country dosing LSD and banging hippy chicks, is it THAT much different than saying "I'm not letting this virus control my day-to-day"?   As long as everyone involved is eyes-wide-open, I'm not sure what the difference is, even WITH "death" as a possibility.  If my family wants to meet for T-Giving, I can always stay home.

There's a difference - the guy that goes on a finding himself tour does not harm anyone except the spouse he leaves at the altar or the occasional girl he sweet-talks into a meaningless one night stand while she wanted more. Someone who catches the virus passes it to someone else who passes it to someone else who passes it to an old and/or frail relative of mine who dies from it. That's the difference.

I can't lock away in a bunker forever and ever my old parents because they are potentially at risk. THEY need to live their life as well, precautions only take you so far, a contagion is a missed wash of hands or a trusted person talking nearby away.

[Stadler]

Philosophical question here:   why is this all of a sudden bad?   We can list examples of people either we know of or have heard of that have bucked convention, have refused to make the same level of sacrifices that the majority of us have, and we've moved on.  I recognize that the immediate answer is "but people DIE!", and I get that, but something about that answer doesn't really ring true to me.  "Death" - to others or self - hasn't really been a real hinderance in the past, nor has the "cost" to society.  Why would we expect that to be the case now?

If someone says "screw it, YOLO" and foresakes marriage and a job and decides to follow The Dead around the country dosing LSD and banging hippy chicks, is it THAT much different than saying "I'm not letting this virus control my day-to-day"?   As long as everyone involved is eyes-wide-open, I'm not sure what the difference is, even WITH "death" as a possibility.  If my family wants to meet for T-Giving, I can always stay home.

Because I feel that it's just prolonging the length of the pandemic.  Plain and simple.  I feel like if people really put an effort into this, then we'd be at a better place right now in this country.  Maybe I'm wrong - some European countries with hard lockdowns are doing bad again.  But having so many people disregarding basic guidelines to try and stay healthy has really bothered me.  I'm not going to debate it - it's just how I feel.  I studied health in college and i believe that certain things like public health transcend politics, and society could come together for the greater good. 

And my family would not have attended a big Christmas party.  We already declined a graduation party from that same side of the family a few months ago.  It just drives me crazy that our governor and health department have flat out said that these family gatherings are continuing the spread the virus and so many people thumb their noses at the information because of the governor's political affiliation.

Look, I'm with you.  Read my posts in the P/R section about our divisiveness.  If there's a will there's a way.  I get it and I personally agree, but at the heart of this is that there are a VAST majority of people in this country that don't give a crap. 

[Stadler]

If someone says "screw it, YOLO" and foresakes marriage and a job and decides to follow The Dead around the country dosing LSD and banging hippy chicks, is it THAT much different than saying "I'm not letting this virus control my day-to-day"?   As long as everyone involved is eyes-wide-open, I'm not sure what the difference is, even WITH "death" as a possibility.  If my family wants to meet for T-Giving, I can always stay home.

There's a difference - the guy that goes on a finding himself tour does not harm anyone except the spouse he leaves at the altar or the occasional girl he sweet-talks into a meaningless one night stand while she wanted more. Someone who catches the virus passes it to someone else who passes it to someone else who passes it to an old and/or frail relative of mine who dies from it. That's the difference.

I can't lock away in a bunker forever and ever my old parents because they are potentially at risk. THEY need to live their life as well, precautions only take you so far, a contagion is a missed wash of hands or a trusted person talking nearby away.

In my original post:  "I recognize that the immediate answer is "but people DIE!"".   As I said, I'm with you, but I'm trying to understand, because it seems like a deeper problem than just "COVID" or "death".   I deeply believe that people ought to be able to make their own path in this world, and we - as individuals - can only control ourselves, but I also recognize a need for societal guidelines.   Given that, though, many of the same people yelling "put a mask on!" are the same people that are so strident at fueling our political divisiveness, which in my view is as deadly, long term, as COVID (since there's no "vaccine" for partisanship on the horizon).  Given that, there are plenty of people that don't give a shit about their health, generally, but now are making this an issue.   It's a conundrum to me, and I'm asking why. 

[MirrorMask]

People are not saints, they can have blind spots or being more sensitive to certain issues than others. We are not perfect, you can find people that give substantial charity to the poor but don't pick up their own thrash from the sidewalk (random example of course).

The point is, we're all in this together, and as Grappler said, certain things should trascend politics. We get out of this together and one would think that the scare of having problems to breathe and needing to lie down 8 hours in ICU (while you couldn't even attend the funeral of your own grandma) would be enough but we're evidently wrong about it.

The Cold War was cold because of the concept of mutual assured destruction - we'd probably need to remember that, we're all together on our only home, this little planet. Something that happened in China reached the entire world in weeks. If this diidn't give us unity, probably not even an alien invasion will.

[cramx3]

My company announced today that WFH will continue until June 2021 now.  No surprise, but these dates just keep getting pushed back.  At some point, I think they will say many aren't going to be required to go back to the office.

[Stadler]

My company announced today that WFH will continue until June 2021 now.  No surprise, but these dates just keep getting pushed back.  At some point, I think they will say many aren't going to be required to go back to the office.

We have variable attendance at sites, depending on job description, but for the most part we're not going back in full force until 2021. 

[TAC]

My company announced today that WFH will continue until June 2021 now.  No surprise, but these dates just keep getting pushed back.  At some point, I think they will say many aren't going to be required to go back to the office.

Hey Cram, if you don't mind.. IIRC, you did a lot of travelling to set up systems, right? How has your actual job changed?

[cramx3]

My company announced today that WFH will continue until June 2021 now.  No surprise, but these dates just keep getting pushed back.  At some point, I think they will say many aren't going to be required to go back to the office.

Hey Cram, if you don't mind.. IIRC, you did a lot of travelling to set up systems, right? How has your actual job changed?

Yea, no travel so it's actually leaving our overseas datacenters in a very bad position.  We can't really do much work in them, so all our plans for upgrades got pushed back till next year.  The buildings that host our data centers do offer hourly support, its not cheap though.  We use it for critical issues only, but I've worked with the germans quite a bit over the summer on some projects that we were able to get done just super super slowly.

We have an office in Boulder CO, so there's a few people we've been asking to occasionally go into our Denver datacenter to work with us.  That's been working fairly well and those two guys have been crucial to helping us complete projects and keep things alive there.  But it's slow progress, these are the things I do on my WFH days.  Coordinate stuff with the people who are physically in the places I would normally travel to.

Our amsterdam data center is a disaster though, working remotely with Dutch support has been really bad and troublesome.  We had a job opening to hire someone but the company put a freeze on hiring.  We are trying to work around it by getting a full time contractor, but so far, that hasn't happened yet.  The amount of issues that need to be fixed keep adding up.

[TAC]

Have you been working on your Indian accent?

[cramx3]

Have you been working on your Indian accent?

lol wut? We do have a support team in India but no data center there and I've never travelled there nor deal with our support over the phone, just in chat. Just doin the needful

[TAC]

Have you been working on your Indian accent?

lol wut? We do have a support team in India but no data center there and I've never travelled there nor deal with our support over the phone, just in chat. Just doin the needful

It just seems like everytime I call a data center, I get India.

[cramx3]

Have you been working on your Indian accent?

lol wut? We do have a support team in India but no data center there and I've never travelled there nor deal with our support over the phone, just in chat. Just doin the needful

It just seems like everytime I call a data center, I get India.

I think you are thinking of a "call center" there's not many actual people in a data center, just computers.

[TAC]

TACnology!

[Anguyen92]

Same.  Even if a vaccine was available tomorrow, there's no logistical possibility of even producing/distributing/administering the vaccine to 10s/100s of millions, let alone the billions that ultimately need it for the world to get back to "normalcy".  Then factor in the 10s/100s of millions that won't get it (either anti-vaxx, or just plain not wanting v1.0 of something like this).  I mean, how many Apple users updated to iOS 14.0 straight away?

I did.  Though, if I'm honest, it's only because I just want to get rid of that brief lag after I enter my code on my iPhone and it doesn't stop until that update was installed.

[cramx3]

TACnology!

 

[hunnus2000]

Have you been working on your Indian accent?

lol wut? We do have a support team in India but no data center there and I've never travelled there nor deal with our support over the phone, just in chat. Just doin the needful

It just seems like everytime I call a data center, I get India.

I think you are thinking of a "call center" there's not many actual people in a data center, just computers.

Good Lord, I can't tell you how I dreaded calling support when I was a server admin because while the Indians were talented, their accent turned a 30 minute phone call into a 4 hour phone call. I'm not trying to be mean but holy fuck it was brutal! 

[MoraWintersoul]

If someone says "screw it, YOLO" and foresakes marriage and a job and decides to follow The Dead around the country dosing LSD and banging hippy chicks, is it THAT much different than saying "I'm not letting this virus control my day-to-day"?   As long as everyone involved is eyes-wide-open, I'm not sure what the difference is, even WITH "death" as a possibility.

Well, imagine if the guy doing that could give you all his STDs just by coughing in your direction at the grocery store.

[Cool Chris]

Just this week, my wife's extended family started planning the big family Christmas party, where 30+ people pack into someone's small house.  It took two other family members to remind everyone that some people have health issues that make it unsafe for them to attend and the family had to be convinced to not plan a gathering this year.

This may sound cold-hearted, but, while people had a good point about the size and nature of the gathering, couldn't your wife's family plan a smaller party with those who felt comfortable attending? Maybe the elderly and those with health issues should remain isolated, while the others can get together in a smaller group?

The problem with saying "we are all in this together" is that we aren't. Some people are able to work from home, some jobs are considered "essential." Other people are out of work, others have their businesses shut down, and have lost their life savings. The virus can wreck and kill some people, and others will be fine in a few days. We are not all being affected equally, which makes it harder to address it equally.

[Grappler]

Just this week, my wife's extended family started planning the big family Christmas party, where 30+ people pack into someone's small house.  It took two other family members to remind everyone that some people have health issues that make it unsafe for them to attend and the family had to be convinced to not plan a gathering this year.

This may sound cold-hearted, but, while people had a good point about the size and nature of the gathering, couldn't your wife's family plan a smaller party with those who felt comfortable attending? Maybe the elderly and those with health issues should remain isolated, while the others can get together in a smaller group?

The problem with saying "we are all in this together" is that we aren't. Some people are able to work from home, some jobs are considered "essential." Other people are out of work, others have their businesses shut down, and have lost their life savings. The virus can wreck and kill some people, and others will be fine in a few days. We are not all being affected equally, which makes it harder to address it equally.

That's exactly what will happen.  Everyone  will likely celebrate with their immediate families.  We will get together with my in-laws and brother/sister in law and all of our kids.  Probably 11 or 12 people total, whom we all trust and are comfortable being around.  Most of the adults will try to social distance.  The rest of the family will do the same with their parents/grandparents, etc.  So it will probably be a number of smaller parties. 

What I was talking about was the big, giant family party, where EVERYONE on that side of the family gets together.  Many of those individuals follow particular political beliefs regarding the virus, and may not subscribe to mask wearing and social distancing.  It's difficult for my wife and I to trust being around some of them this year, and it's ok.  We've skipped the party for the last year or two already due to family drama and just not wanting to be around them.

[TAC]

We hold a Christmas Eve open house every year. We people come and go, but we'll typically max out at about 25 people in the house at one time. We haven't even started to talk about this year. It's just my wife's family here, and they haven't yet figured out Thanksgiving.

[Cool Chris]

Good plan. I hope during the holidays families can make reasoned decisions as you have. We need to consider who we spend our time with. It's just not reasonable we all don't leave our houses. It is unfortunate but we have to evaluate for ourselves who we wish to spend our quality time with based on the decisions they are making.