Coronavirus

[hunnus2000]

How about keeping hand sanitizer in all your vehicles which is what we do after shopping. And doctors and nurses pull their masks down all the time when working so it's not a big deal to pull your mask  off and on, even with the covids.

[Dublagent66]

It's already been proven that keeping hand sanitizer in your car, especially while living in a warm climate is dangerous. 

[jingle.boy]

Dr. Fauci layeth the smacketh down on Rand Paul's candy ass!! (only 1:51 long)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRPbYzywM2o

[Elite]

Challenging someone who's a professional and knows what he's doing is never really a good idea, especially when this professional can shove aside any bullshit without flinching and remaining calm.

[hunnus2000]

It's odd...a mask is starting to feel like a seat belt. When it's not on I feel weird.

Also funny to watch so many epic mask failures. Whether It's on football games, news interviews, or just anybody anywhere. The masks fall off their nose and constantly have to be pushed up. You're not even supposed to touch your mask, but everyone does. I honestly wonder, after seeing the struggle, how much good are they really doing?

I think we are quickly coming to the point of - Why haven't we been wearing masks all along, especially during flu season? This mask wearing thing is here to stay, maybe not as prolific as in a pandemic but it ain't going anywhere.

[Stadler]

This probably belongs in the Politics side of the COVID discussion, but really, REALLY tired of how everything has to be a WWE pay-per-view event. 

I had to google Fauci's statements and these were the headlines (from reputable news outlets!): 

"Fauci loses his patience" (like he's a frustrated parent)
"Fauci has heard just about enough from Paul"
"Fauci hits back against Paul"
"Fauci's schooling of Rand Paul draws cheers"

I want to ask the group these questions:
Is this helping?  Is anyone's mind being changed with this "schooling"?   If you watch the video, Fauci actually didn't really do any of these things, other than the "you aren't listening" comment.   He was calm, he was patient, and he stuck to the facts.   Why does everything need to be so vitriolic?   And why are so many people seemingly getting JOY from these exchanges?   Are we SO insecure that we need to get our self-worth from watching our positions justified in such seemingly violent and aggressive ways?  And why is the mainstream press promoting this?   

[Adami]

Because playing into our base and awful tendencies is a full proof plan to get support. Or in this case money.

You’re asking why they figured out to effectively advertise to increase profits. Because that’s all they care about. Just like when politicians do it. It’s easy and works almost every single time.

It’s smart. Harmful but smart.

Why do you think sports rivalries exist? Drums up support and money. This isn’t new at all.

[Stadler]

Because playing into our base and awful tendencies is a full proof plan to get support. Or in this case money.

You’re asking why they figured out to effectively advertise to increase profits. Because that’s all they care about. Just like when politicians do it. It’s easy and works almost every single time.

It’s smart. Harmful but smart.

Why do you think sports rivalries exist? Drums up support and money. This isn’t new at all.

For a NEWS outlet?  Isn't the argument - by some, including many IN the field of journalism - that when we undermine the press, we undermine democracy (thus the criticism of Trump's "fake news")?    If they're a marketing tool, what's to undermine?   Deliver the facts.  Let me decide if it's an appropriate response or not.

[Adami]

Because playing into our base and awful tendencies is a full proof plan to get support. Or in this case money.

You’re asking why they figured out to effectively advertise to increase profits. Because that’s all they care about. Just like when politicians do it. It’s easy and works almost every single time.

It’s smart. Harmful but smart.

Why do you think sports rivalries exist? Drums up support and money. This isn’t new at all.

For a NEWS outlet?  Isn't the argument - by some, including many IN the field of journalism - that when we undermine the press, we undermine democracy (thus the criticism of Trump's "fake news")?    If they're a marketing tool, what's to undermine?   Deliver the facts.  Let me decide if it's an appropriate response or not.

This is capitalism. They are a business. A business exists solely to generate profit. If that can be done by being great journalists, it will. But it’s easier and cheaper to do it this way. If you want to use that as an excuse to say it’s okay for the government to undermine them at will, have at it.

But yes. They don’t exist to be a source of news. They exist to make money. That’s our system that we defend at all costs.

Edit: do you know what happens if news sources started only publishing cold hard facts and nothing else? The masses won’t buy them. They will go under. Then the companies that do clickbait will profit and continue.

[jingle.boy]

There’s always Reuter’s and AP if all you want is news and facts.

[Anguyen92]

Because playing into our base and awful tendencies is a full proof plan to get support. Or in this case money.

You’re asking why they figured out to effectively advertise to increase profits. Because that’s all they care about. Just like when politicians do it. It’s easy and works almost every single time.

It’s smart. Harmful but smart.

Why do you think sports rivalries exist? Drums up support and money. This isn’t new at all.

For a NEWS outlet?  Isn't the argument - by some, including many IN the field of journalism - that when we undermine the press, we undermine democracy (thus the criticism of Trump's "fake news")?    If they're a marketing tool, what's to undermine?   Deliver the facts.  Let me decide if it's an appropriate response or not.

This is capitalism. They are a business. A business exists solely to generate profit. If that can be done by being great journalists, it will. But it’s easier and cheaper to do it this way. If you want to use that as an excuse to say it’s okay for the government to undermine them at will, have at it.

But yes. They don’t exist to be a source of news. They exist to make money. That’s our system that we defend at all costs.

Edit: do you know what happens if news sources started only publishing cold hard facts and nothing else? The masses won’t buy them. They will go under. Then the companies that do clickbait will profit and continue.

I've been thinking this before, but there's this song from Switchfoot called Selling the News.  My goodness, the lyrics in that song keeps holding true in regards what news media has become as the years goes by and that song was released in 2011, nine years ago.

Anywho, back on topic.  Are we approaching the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of stabilizing the infection?  If so, how do we keep it from spreading out of control?  Just continue to maintain social distancing and wearing masks in public?

[lordxizor]

It's odd...a mask is starting to feel like a seat belt. When it's not on I feel weird.

Also funny to watch so many epic mask failures. Whether It's on football games, news interviews, or just anybody anywhere. The masks fall off their nose and constantly have to be pushed up. You're not even supposed to touch your mask, but everyone does. I honestly wonder, after seeing the struggle, how much good are they really doing?

I think we are quickly coming to the point of - Why haven't we been wearing masks all along, especially during flu season? This mask wearing thing is here to stay, maybe not as prolific as in a pandemic but it ain't going anywhere.

it damn well better go away. I fucking hate it.

[cramx3]

NJ this month lifted many restrictions and for the first time since Super Bowl Sunday, I met up with a few of my friends at Top Golf for beers, apps, and a driving range.  It was a lot of fun.  You had to wear your mask at all times except in our tee both/table area.  It felt weird to have my mask off while the waiter had his on.  The place was actually really packed overall too.  Plenty of people outside smoking without masks.  Such a weird time we live in, but a really nice evening of doing things I miss. Heading up to Maine next week, I won't need to provide a negative covid test result or quarantine because NJ is one of the "safe states" according to Maine.

[Cool Chris]

I think we are quickly coming to the point of - Why haven't we been wearing masks all along, especially during flu season? This mask wearing thing is here to stay, maybe not as prolific as in a pandemic but it ain't going anywhere.

To answer your question... because for most people, wearing a mask throughout flu season is not worth the risk of get the flu. Mask wearing is definitely not hear to stay, unless Project Blue gets leaked from a government lab.

[Elite]

for most people, wearing a mask throughout flu season is not worth the risk of get the flu.

I don't understand what you're trying to say

[jingle.boy]

for most people, wearing a mask throughout flu season is not worth the risk of get the flu.

I don't understand what you're trying to say

I believe he’s saying that wearing a mask when in public for a few months od the year is more inconvenient than the consequences of A) individually getting the flu, B) spreading it if you are sick (knowingly or asymptomatically), and C) at a macro level, contributing to the reduction of tens of thousands of deaths annually.

[The Walrus]

Last year I didn't get sick at all and I didn't wear a mask. Not gonna wear one this winter either.

[Stadler]

Because playing into our base and awful tendencies is a full proof plan to get support. Or in this case money.

You’re asking why they figured out to effectively advertise to increase profits. Because that’s all they care about. Just like when politicians do it. It’s easy and works almost every single time.

It’s smart. Harmful but smart.

Why do you think sports rivalries exist? Drums up support and money. This isn’t new at all.

For a NEWS outlet?  Isn't the argument - by some, including many IN the field of journalism - that when we undermine the press, we undermine democracy (thus the criticism of Trump's "fake news")?    If they're a marketing tool, what's to undermine?   Deliver the facts.  Let me decide if it's an appropriate response or not.

This is capitalism. They are a business. A business exists solely to generate profit. If that can be done by being great journalists, it will. But it’s easier and cheaper to do it this way. If you want to use that as an excuse to say it’s okay for the government to undermine them at will, have at it.

But yes. They don’t exist to be a source of news. They exist to make money. That’s our system that we defend at all costs.

Edit: do you know what happens if news sources started only publishing cold hard facts and nothing else? The masses won’t buy them. They will go under. Then the companies that do clickbait will profit and continue.

And that's a relatively new occurrence.  As of the 80's and 90's, the major news outlets - NBC, ABC, CBS - were a separate entity with a budget but no profit quota.  That started to change a bit in the late 90's when GE bought NBC, but even then, Tom Brokaw was a JOURNALIST first, and not a profit generator.   We've morphed now, but that's not to say it's a good thing or consistent with the rest of the arguments surrounding "journalism" and their role in democracy.

The news outlets can't really have it both ways. 

[Adami]

I agree. Which is why I say let’s take down capitalism. 

[Stadler]

So, it will be interesting to watch:   Florida has reopened bars and restaurants to 50% capacity (and only seated patrons to be served).   Face masks and social distancing still required.   I'm sure this will be viewed as a litmus test, but that has it's problems (Florida's demographics are rather different than many other states; I don't have the transient travel in CT that FL does, for example).

[MirrorMask]

The latest news is about the masks being a rudimentary "vaccine" - it might be that they filter just enough of the virus to let you assume small doses that give you immunity, which is the very premise of vaccination (inoculating small doses of a virus so that your body gets prepared to fight it).

I don't know if this is gonna be definitively proven, but that could explain why having been around this summer quite a bit I still avoided any kind of infection. Or maybe avoiding people at all costs all the time was already enough, dunno  I never let anyone come near me aside from waitresses.

[XJDenton]

The latest news is about the masks being a rudimentary "vaccine" - it might be that they filter just enough of the virus to let you assume small doses that give you immunity, which is the very premise of vaccination (inoculating small doses of a virus so that your body gets prepared to fight it).

What you are describing is Variolation, rather than vaccination, stemming from the pre vaccine days where material from smallpox pustules were deliberately introduced to scratches in the hopes of inducing a more moderate form of the disease. Vaccines work on quite different principles, and do not rely on small doses of unattenuated virus.

As for COVID, a literature search has revealed some opinion and perspective articles suggesting mask variolation as a possible mechanism, (this one for instance: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913) but there isn't any peer reviewed research that demonstrates it as an effect.

[Stadler]

Respectful question from someone who isn't a virologist but has played one on TV (and stayed at a Holiday In Express within the last week):   Can that potentially explain what looks to be - empirically - that younger people are technically getting sicker at a higher rate, but seem to be getting "less sick" when they do?   My daughter lives in a triple at school, and one of her roommates, asymptomatic, tested positive.    So my kid and the other roommate got tested.  Daughter was negative, but other roommate was, largely asymptomatically (she had the basic symptoms, of a mild cold) tested positive.   My daughter - who is chronically asthmatic anyway (it's a running joke when we talk on the phone: "are you crying?") - may or may not be symptomatic but we're now waiting on the second test to come back.  That's a far cry from the story of Orbert's band-mate, for example.

[MirrorMask]

The latest news is about the masks being a rudimentary "vaccine" - it might be that they filter just enough of the virus to let you assume small doses that give you immunity, which is the very premise of vaccination (inoculating small doses of a virus so that your body gets prepared to fight it).

What you are describing is Variolation, rather than vaccination, stemming from the pre vaccine days where material from smallpox pustules were deliberately introduced to scratches in the hopes of inducing a more moderate form of the disease. Vaccines work on quite different principles, and do not rely on small doses of unattenuated virus.

As for COVID, a literature search has revealed some opinion and perspective articles suggesting mask variolation as a possible mechanism, (this one for instance: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913) but there isn't any peer reviewed research that demonstrates it as an effect.

I stand corrected then!

[XJDenton]

Respectful question from someone who isn't a virologist but has played one on TV (and stayed at a Holiday In Express within the last week):   Can that potentially explain what looks to be - empirically - that younger people are technically getting sicker at a higher rate, but seem to be getting "less sick" when they do?   My daughter lives in a triple at school, and one of her roommates, asymptomatic, tested positive.    So my kid and the other roommate got tested.  Daughter was negative, but other roommate was, largely asymptomatically (she had the basic symptoms, of a mild cold) tested positive.   My daughter - who is chronically asthmatic anyway (it's a running joke when we talk on the phone: "are you crying?") - may or may not be symptomatic but we're now waiting on the second test to come back.  That's a far cry from the story of Orbert's band-mate, for example.

Younger people are much more likely to be in places where there are large crowds, whereas older persons will spend more of their life at home in comparative isolation, and are therefore more likely to be exposed. However, when older people do get it, they will be battling the virus with a weaker immune system, so statistically more of them will fail to keep it in check.

[TAC]

Respectful question from someone who isn't a virologist but has played one on TV (and stayed at a Holiday In Express within the last week):   Can that potentially explain what looks to be - empirically - that younger people are technically getting sicker at a higher rate, but seem to be getting "less sick" when they do?   My daughter lives in a triple at school, and one of her roommates, asymptomatic, tested positive.    So my kid and the other roommate got tested.  Daughter was negative, but other roommate was, largely asymptomatically (she had the basic symptoms, of a mild cold) tested positive.   My daughter - who is chronically asthmatic anyway (it's a running joke when we talk on the phone: "are you crying?") - may or may not be symptomatic but we're now waiting on the second test to come back.  That's a far cry from the story of Orbert's band-mate, for example.

Stadler, that sounds pretty scary, I mean how would she NOT get it if the other two have it. Can you move her to off campus hotel for a couple of weeks?

[Stadler]

Respectful question from someone who isn't a virologist but has played one on TV (and stayed at a Holiday In Express within the last week):   Can that potentially explain what looks to be - empirically - that younger people are technically getting sicker at a higher rate, but seem to be getting "less sick" when they do?   My daughter lives in a triple at school, and one of her roommates, asymptomatic, tested positive.    So my kid and the other roommate got tested.  Daughter was negative, but other roommate was, largely asymptomatically (she had the basic symptoms, of a mild cold) tested positive.   My daughter - who is chronically asthmatic anyway (it's a running joke when we talk on the phone: "are you crying?") - may or may not be symptomatic but we're now waiting on the second test to come back.  That's a far cry from the story of Orbert's band-mate, for example.

Stadler, that sounds pretty scary, I mean how would she NOT get it if the other two have it. Can you move her to off campus hotel for a couple of weeks?

Between you and me, I'm petrified. Right now, she's okay because she's by herself; the other two have gone into isolation (though interestingly, for one, "isolation" is exactly that: a hotel room.  That's scary.). I must've texted her four times today "how'd you do?".   . 

[jingle.boy]

Dude... that's awful.  I can't begin to imagine what you're feeling.  I'm so thankful both jingle.kids' programs are 100% online, and our biggest fear is 'cabin fever' ... which is bad enough itself, but it ain't as life-threatening as COVID.

Hang tough bro.

[King Postwhore]

Stads, damn I'd be by myself right now.

[Stadler]

I appreciate the kind words; I've had to keep the stiff upper lip for the most part, for my daughter.   I think she's scared too, being away from home and not knowing, though she's like me and doesn't want to let on.   The ex doesn't help matters (she's pretty much called everyone except for Obama; of course there's only so much that can be done at this point and now she's starting to be more harm than good) and my wife is caring and concerned, but a little on the negative side as well.

Fingers crossed, and phone handy (waiting for the news).     

[Elite]

Many colleagues testing positive in the past few days, including one regularly interact with. Always keeping distance, since that's required, but I can feel the situation getting tenser with more people dropping out..

[Stadler]

...and seems like somewhere bettern CVS, Quest and Minute Clinic (don't know what that is), we're not sure where her test or the results are.   

Chain of custody, bitches. 

[Luoto]

Looks like the epidemic is getting out of control in our capital region where only less than half of cases can be traced, and the amount of positive test results has tripled within the last week. Meanwhile in my city there's still less than 5 confirmed cases per week.

[emtee]

Yesterday in FL was our lowest single day new cases. 768 I think...close to that anyway. But, today we jumped up to over 3K. In my hospital we had two patients a couple days ago. That jumped up to 22. And, the ER waiting room was packed today for the first time in many weeks. I fear we hit the bottom and now we're ramping back up again. In 2 weeks we will see the effects of the bars opening up.

Man, it feels like this is NEVER going to end!

[Orbert]

A fourth vaccine has entered Phase 3 trials in the U.S.  There are now a total of 41 vaccines worldwide in Phase 3 trials.  They are getting closer.

The unfortunate reality is that a lot of people (include some here on DTF) have stated outright that they will not take the vaccine once it's approved.  This will hamper our species reaching full herd immunity.  But there are positive effects short of reaching full herd immunity.  There will be geographic areas which are effectively safe.  And of course those who take the vaccine, if it works for them without serious side effects, will be effectively safe for the time being.

I personally believe that it will never end; that is, it will not completely go away, just as the flu or the common cold will never completely go away.  Viruses will continue to mutate, and we will always be playing catch-up with the vaccines.  But the huge numbers, the ones you're talking about that bury the ER and overwhelm hospitals around the world will see some relief, hopefully considerable relief, once the vaccines are widely available.