Coronavirus

[ProfessorPeart]

If it was me, I think I would take him in. You would actually be providing him with a more controlled environment for which to care for him until this blows over. Sure, there are risks, but it seems like the right thing to do to me. Just my opinion and feeling, of course.

[bosk1]

It's a really difficult situation to be in.  Your first responsibility is to your family, so I would talk to them first and make sure they are ok with it and accepting of the risk.  If so, do the same with him.  If all parties are in agreement and understand that there are no guarantees, I think that's about the best you can do.  To me, as an outside observer, it just seems like the bottom line is that he needs help and, assuming your family is on board, you are in a position to offer that help.

I really feel for you being in that situation.

[emtee]

Almost every department in our facility has now been converted
into a Covid unit. Rapid response every 15'ish minutes. Code blue every 60'ish
minutes. Fear, anxiety, tears, chaos. Virus is a relentless beast.

[Stadler]

One of the biggest issues is that a powerful American authority figure downplayed this from jump street so many of that "person"'s followers have used that as a permanent excuse to fight for "muh freedom" and won't do shit to help prevent its spread until a cop holds them at gun point and says "Go home or go to jail."

Please.   Those spring breakers are hardly Trump's demographic.   I live in a very blue state and there are PLENTY of people here that would vote for [name your odious option] over Donald Trump and didn't give fuck one about the suggestions and guidelines until Ned Lamont, our governor, said "ENOUGH".

Again, he specifically said his followers, not everybody in America that didn't follow the guidelines.

He said "one of the biggest issues is [the President and his the followers]".  My point is that that's an unnecessary qualification.  One of the biggest issues is ANYONE that decides they personally are more important than the collective.   If we're inclined to point fingers and agree that "carelessness" is the "biggest issue", I don't care if it's Christians, Jews, Republicans, deplorables, libtards, or buff bitches showing off their new boobies and bikini six-pack, if you're putting YOUR personal concern higher than the group at this point, you're "the biggest issue".

In my opinion, I think there is flexibility to how the controls are put into place, but to narrow down to groups takes the focus OFF the primary issue - that we all have a key role to play - and allows absolution for those that don't have anything better to blame. 

(Full disclosure; I'm dealing with an ex-family member that isn't part of any of these groups, and he's putting 10's if not 100's of people in danger having "COVID parties" in his basement; we had to get counsel involved at great cost to us to limit my stepson's visitation because he and my daughter are technically high risk people due to their asthma.  It's not about "God", or "45" or anything other than him being a dick.  I'm not giving this guy any chance to say "well, I'm not THAT guy.")

[DragonAttack]

He said "one of the biggest issues is [the President and his the followers]".  My point is that that's an unnecessary qualification.  One of the biggest issues is ANYONE that decides they personally are more important than the collective.   If we're inclined to point fingers and agree that "carelessness" is the "biggest issue", I don't care if it's Christians, Jews, Republicans, deplorables, libtards, or buff bitches showing off their new boobies and bikini six-pack, if you're putting YOUR personal concern higher than the group at this point, you're "the biggest issue".

Libtards?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

One of the biggest issues is that a powerful American authority figure downplayed this from jump street so many of that "person"'s followers have used that as a permanent excuse to fight for "muh freedom" and won't do shit to help prevent its spread until a cop holds them at gun point and says "Go home or go to jail."

Please.   Those spring breakers are hardly Trump's demographic.   I live in a very blue state and there are PLENTY of people here that would vote for [name your odious option] over Donald Trump and didn't give fuck one about the suggestions and guidelines until Ned Lamont, our governor, said "ENOUGH".

Again, he specifically said his followers, not everybody in America that didn't follow the guidelines.

He said "one of the biggest issues is [the President and his the followers]".  My point is that that's an unnecessary qualification.  One of the biggest issues is ANYONE that decides they personally are more important than the collective.   If we're inclined to point fingers and agree that "carelessness" is the "biggest issue", I don't care if it's Christians, Jews, Republicans, deplorables, libtards, or buff bitches showing off their new boobies and bikini six-pack, if you're putting YOUR personal concern higher than the group at this point, you're "the biggest issue".

In my opinion, I think there is flexibility to how the controls are put into place, but to narrow down to groups takes the focus OFF the primary issue - that we all have a key role to play - and allows absolution for those that don't have anything better to blame. 

(Full disclosure; I'm dealing with an ex-family member that isn't part of any of these groups, and he's putting 10's if not 100's of people in danger having "COVID parties" in his basement; we had to get counsel involved at great cost to us to limit my stepson's visitation because he and my daughter are technically high risk people due to their asthma.  It's not about "God", or "45" or anything other than him being a dick.  I'm not giving this guy any chance to say "well, I'm not THAT guy.")

Sure, plenty of people are dumb and irresponsible. A large amount of those, especially in the south, are people who basically worship Trump and their actions are directly connected to Trump's downplaying of the whole thing until very recently. Pretty sure that's what black biff stadler is getting at.

[Lonk]

I Think is not denying that a group of people not following safety measures fall into that group, but there is also a large group of people that don't follow safety measures and don't "worship" trump.

And if that is the case, why use that label to refer to them? There are a bunch of people in NYC who are not following safety measures. At the beginning, DiBlasio and Cuomo were downplaying the situation. Saying that people in NYC are not following safety measures because of DiBlasio and Cuomo is not a correct statement.

[Stadler]

He said "one of the biggest issues is [the President and his the followers]".  My point is that that's an unnecessary qualification.  One of the biggest issues is ANYONE that decides they personally are more important than the collective.   If we're inclined to point fingers and agree that "carelessness" is the "biggest issue", I don't care if it's Christians, Jews, Republicans, deplorables, libtards, or buff bitches showing off their new boobies and bikini six-pack, if you're putting YOUR personal concern higher than the group at this point, you're "the biggest issue".

Libtards?

Yes; it was meant to lampoon the very thing I'm arguing against, that is, making this an "us versus them" argument (and offset by the equally offensive, and equally ridiculous, "deplorable" label).  Trying to estimate whether there are more Trump fans or Bernie fans or whatever acting stupid does NOTHING to get us a) acting safer, b) trouble shoot the process, or c) bring this country together.  All it does do is salve tropes and act as confirmation for our bias. 

[Stadler]

One of the biggest issues is that a powerful American authority figure downplayed this from jump street so many of that "person"'s followers have used that as a permanent excuse to fight for "muh freedom" and won't do shit to help prevent its spread until a cop holds them at gun point and says "Go home or go to jail."

Please.   Those spring breakers are hardly Trump's demographic.   I live in a very blue state and there are PLENTY of people here that would vote for [name your odious option] over Donald Trump and didn't give fuck one about the suggestions and guidelines until Ned Lamont, our governor, said "ENOUGH".

Again, he specifically said his followers, not everybody in America that didn't follow the guidelines.

He said "one of the biggest issues is [the President and his the followers]".  My point is that that's an unnecessary qualification.  One of the biggest issues is ANYONE that decides they personally are more important than the collective.   If we're inclined to point fingers and agree that "carelessness" is the "biggest issue", I don't care if it's Christians, Jews, Republicans, deplorables, libtards, or buff bitches showing off their new boobies and bikini six-pack, if you're putting YOUR personal concern higher than the group at this point, you're "the biggest issue".

In my opinion, I think there is flexibility to how the controls are put into place, but to narrow down to groups takes the focus OFF the primary issue - that we all have a key role to play - and allows absolution for those that don't have anything better to blame. 

(Full disclosure; I'm dealing with an ex-family member that isn't part of any of these groups, and he's putting 10's if not 100's of people in danger having "COVID parties" in his basement; we had to get counsel involved at great cost to us to limit my stepson's visitation because he and my daughter are technically high risk people due to their asthma.  It's not about "God", or "45" or anything other than him being a dick.  I'm not giving this guy any chance to say "well, I'm not THAT guy.")

Sure, plenty of people are dumb and irresponsible. A large amount of those, especially in the south, are people who basically worship Trump and their actions are directly connected to Trump's downplaying of the whole thing until very recently. Pretty sure that's what black biff stadler is getting at.

I understand, I think, what he's getting at.  I just think it's not accurate, it's not based in any fact, and it's not helpful to getting us out of the situation we're finding ourselves in right now.

[Adami]

Why would it be helpful getting us out of the situation right now? That's an odd metric to use to see whether or not people should say something.

Insulting spring break idiots doesn't help us either, but we all seem happy to do it.

We're pointing out how badly people are handling things and so forth. It's not supposed to make COVID go away, nothing we say here is.

[Cool Chris]

JD, we are in a bit of a unique situation here where we do need to minimize our exposure to other people as best possible, but we also need to not abandon those who might need care and attention. I don't have a good answer, but I feel you have been given solid advice by others in this thread.

[hefdaddy42]

Why would it be helpful getting us out of the situation right now? That's an odd metric to use to see whether or not people should say something.

Insulting spring break idiots doesn't help us either, but we all seem happy to do it.

We're pointing out how badly people are handling things and so forth. It's not supposed to make COVID go away, nothing we say here is.

These were my exact thoughts.

[Harmony]

Why would it be helpful getting us out of the situation right now? That's an odd metric to use to see whether or not people should say something.

Insulting spring break idiots doesn't help us either, but we all seem happy to do it.

We're pointing out how badly people are handling things and so forth. It's not supposed to make COVID go away, nothing we say here is.

Perfectly said.  It's like how right after a school shooting there is a segment of the population who opines that "now is not the time to have a discussion about gun safety."  Well, when is an appropriate time to talk about all of this?  When the body count is at 3000?  5000?  10000? 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Maybe not in getting us out of the situation we're in now, but in terms of preventing this kind of thing in the future it seems pretty critical to recognize that the actions of the president of the fucking country have had a clear effect on our response to this crisis.

[jammindude]

JD, we are in a bit of a unique situation here where we do need to minimize our exposure to other people as best possible, but we also need to not abandon those who might need care and attention. I don't have a good answer, but I feel you have been given solid advice by others in this thread.

Thank you. And thank Bosk, PP, and jingle as well. I’m going to take counsel with family and a few close friends...but I’m pretty sure we can make this work for a month (or until the stay at home is lifted...it’s May 4th now, but who knows if that may get extended)

[Stadler]

Why would it be helpful getting us out of the situation right now? That's an odd metric to use to see whether or not people should say something.

Insulting spring break idiots doesn't help us either, but we all seem happy to do it.

We're pointing out how badly people are handling things and so forth. It's not supposed to make COVID go away, nothing we say here is.

And in that spirit, I'm doing exactly the same thing.  You're just referring to COVID-19 protection measures, and I'm just referring to the analysis of that. Shouldn't then be a problem. 

[Lethean]

JD, we are in a bit of a unique situation here where we do need to minimize our exposure to other people as best possible, but we also need to not abandon those who might need care and attention. I don't have a good answer, but I feel you have been given solid advice by others in this thread.

Thank you. And thank Bosk, PP, and jingle as well. I’m going to take counsel with family and a few close friends...but I’m pretty sure we can make this work for a month (or until the stay at home is lifted...it’s May 4th now, but who knows if that may get extended)

Is it possible for your friend to go two weeks without any visitors?  If so, and your family can do the same (get groceries delivered, etc) then I think you'll really be minimizing the risk of spreading it to each other when you move him in.  If anyone in your family has to work outside the home however... Maybe he's better off where he is, depending on what the people caring for him are doing and who they come in contact with.

[jammindude]

That’s just it. We in our house have already pretty much been quarantined for two weeks...and I have concerns about the people coming to check on him, and have pretty good reasons to suspect he’d be better off with us.

None of the people in my house are high risk, and none of us have any reason to believe that our lives would be threatened if we got this. Our biggest worries are not contacting others just in case we are asymptomatic carriers, and the inconvenience of being in the current medical system if we did get it. But none of us have any health problems, or immunity issues.  It would suck, but I don’t believe any of us are in any of the “possibly marked for death” categories. But my friend might be. That’s why I worry more about him.

[Adami]

Why would it be helpful getting us out of the situation right now? That's an odd metric to use to see whether or not people should say something.

Insulting spring break idiots doesn't help us either, but we all seem happy to do it.

We're pointing out how badly people are handling things and so forth. It's not supposed to make COVID go away, nothing we say here is.

And in that spirit, I'm doing exactly the same thing.  You're just referring to COVID-19 protection measures, and I'm just referring to the analysis of that. Shouldn't then be a problem.

Nothing you're saying is a problem. It's just two parallel conversations. That's it.

Your love of Kiss is a bit of a problem, but it's not at the point of concern.......yet.

[hefdaddy42]

Your love of Kiss is a bit of a problem, but it's not at the point of concern.......yet.

Speak for yourself.  I have privately been concerned for some time now.

[Stadler]

Why would it be helpful getting us out of the situation right now? That's an odd metric to use to see whether or not people should say something.

Insulting spring break idiots doesn't help us either, but we all seem happy to do it.

We're pointing out how badly people are handling things and so forth. It's not supposed to make COVID go away, nothing we say here is.

Perfectly said.  It's like how right after a school shooting there is a segment of the population who opines that "now is not the time to have a discussion about gun safety."  Well, when is an appropriate time to talk about all of this?  When the body count is at 3000?  5000?  10000?

Never once ever said not to talk about it; I'm with you, in that I WANT to talk about it NOW.   What I very clearly said more than once was blaming one particular sector that you (collective, not you, Harmony) have a political beef over is not productive, and therefore "not talking about it".    Remove all the spring breakers and Trump fans, and we STILL have a very big problem that isn't always being handled swiftly or correctly.   

The facts do not support the (politically driven) narrative; let's talk about it, but let's stick to facts that we can prove. 

[Stadler]

Your love of Kiss is a bit of a problem, but it's not at the point of concern.......yet.

Speak for yourself.  I have privately been concerned for some time now.

So you two HAVE been talking to my wife.  It makes perfect sense now. 

This working from home is AWESOME, though, in that I don't have to take my makeup off to go to work anymore.  There's something very satisfying in negotiating a contract in Kiss makeup. 

[Harmony]

The facts do not support the (politically driven) narrative; let's talk about it, but let's stick to facts that we can prove.

But that's the problem, isn't it?  "Facts that we can prove."  Prove how?  Are you saying that there has been no misinformation coming from the current administration or any government (I'm looking at you Florida and Georgia) official?  Are you saying that there aren't organizations passing out misinformation or downplaying the severity of the issue?

Look, I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around.  And there will always be idiots among like the person in your family you were talking about who in my not-so-humble opinion belongs in fucking jail.  But a good healthy chunk of blame definitely belongs at the foot of Trump.  And to pretend otherwise or say we can't talk about that because "facts" is honestly pretty much like telling people they shouldn't talk about it at all.

[Nick]

Ugh. Been talking and emailing with a large family about an older guy expected to pass in the next month or two (not from COVID). Have been thorough about explaining restrictions, trying to explore various options with them, and now they've emailed to hit me with: "Well, we talked to his church and they said they have plenty of space and could accommodate the number of people we're hoping to have." Like, that's not the fucking point people. No one is enjoying this right now but stop trying to game the system and start seriously considering my healthy alternatives.

This is going to 99% end with them using a different funeral home which will do whatever they want, health be damned, which will of course result in someone coming back to the funeral home a lot sooner than expected.

[jammindude]

Ya.  The religion thing just baffles me.   Our religion (JW) has been directed by our branch office to teleconference all meetings, stop door to door witnessing, and no gatherings over 10 people.  Period.   Attendance at my congregation is actually up. 

[Adami]

Ya.  The religion thing just baffles me.   Our religion (JW) has been directed by our branch office to teleconference all meetings, stop door to door witnessing, and no gatherings over 10 people.  Period.   Attendance at my congregation is actually up.

Have you guys considered using remote control segues with Ipad skype on them to replace the door to door witnessing?

[cramx3]

Ugh. Been talking and emailing with a large family about an older guy expected to pass in the next month or two (not from COVID). Have been thorough about explaining restrictions, trying to explore various options with them, and now they've emailed to hit me with: "Well, we talked to his church and they said they have plenty of space and could accommodate the number of people we're hoping to have." Like, that's not the fucking point people. No one is enjoying this right now but stop trying to game the system and start seriously considering my healthy alternatives.

This is going to 99% end with them using a different funeral home which will do whatever they want, health be damned, which will of course result in someone coming back to the funeral home a lot sooner than expected.

This just sucks for people who are dying and their families.  My mom's cousin passed away this week (not covid related) and there's no real funeral plus my parents being in FL couldn't and shouldn't travel to get there in NJ if there was a funeral either.

I have a friend who's wife's parents own the local funeral home and she is a funeral director there.  He's been telling her and her parents to buy the empty lot near by to hold drive through funerals.  He said that's actually a thing already in the south so while it seems odd, it not only is somewhat accepted in the US already but it also would be a way to potentially allow people to still have their peace with the dead.  I don't know how I feel about it personally, but if people would opt for that, seems like better than nothing.

[jammindude]

Ya.  The religion thing just baffles me.   Our religion (JW) has been directed by our branch office to teleconference all meetings, stop door to door witnessing, and no gatherings over 10 people.  Period.   Attendance at my congregation is actually up.

Have you guys considered using remote control segues with Ipad skype on them to replace the door to door witnessing?

I've not heard of that...but we are continuing with letter writing (with generous hand washing) and trying to encourage friends and relatives we know via FaceTime or Skype. 

This is also the first time in our history (EDIT - now that I think about it, I think we were briefly banned during WWI and it was done in private homes then as well...but my point was that current circumstances are unprecedented) that The Memorial of Christ's Death (our most important night of the entire year) will not be held in any public facility.   We are all watching a prerecorded talk at home, and preparing our own emblems in our own homes.   Those who can make the bread will make some extra for those who can't...etc..etc..

[jingle.boy]

[jingle.boy]

Also, I saw this a couple weeks back with the caption "Strong enough to exorcise demons, but not a virus" 

[Cool Chris]

My company has an office in NYC, and one of my colleagues that works there lives in the city adjacent to a hospital, and when the shift changes she claims you can hear applause from people on the street and in neighboring apartments saluting them as they go home.  (She took video and I can confirm the applause and bells; I'm not sure if it's a hospital or one of the first responder stations, though).

My sister lives in the upper east side along 2nd ave and they do this at 7pm every night from their balconies.  It started with just cheers and now my sister has a set up with her broom she bangs    Pretty cool thing to do to show appreciation, even if not much, it's still pretty amazing to see in NYC. 

Moving here from p/r so more people can see it.

[Stadler]

The facts do not support the (politically driven) narrative; let's talk about it, but let's stick to facts that we can prove.

But that's the problem, isn't it?  "Facts that we can prove."  Prove how?  Are you saying that there has been no misinformation coming from the current administration or any government (I'm looking at you Florida and Georgia) official?  Are you saying that there aren't organizations passing out misinformation or downplaying the severity of the issue?

Look, I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around.  And there will always be idiots among like the person in your family you were talking about who in my not-so-humble opinion belongs in fucking jail.  But a good healthy chunk of blame definitely belongs at the foot of Trump.  And to pretend otherwise or say we can't talk about that because "facts" is honestly pretty much like telling people they shouldn't talk about it at all.

Not at all saying that.  Trump clearly bears responsibility here and no question about that.   But that misinformation doesn't SOLELY explain where we are, and for others to make that the "biggest issue" is one that doesn't account for a good percentage of our problems (maybe even a majority of our problems) doesn't make sense to me.  It just doesn't have good correlation on this issue.  Even Drs. Fauci and Birx were reluctant to agree that we can make some of the claims that are being made regarding the "timeliness" of the response (it's in the March 31 Task Force briefing, if you're interested.)

I'm not arguing "whataboutism" here, nor blaming Democrats; I'm VERY CLEARLY saying it's a bipartisan concern here, but just to document my claim that the facts don't support the narrative:

The immediate U.S. hotspots?  By this map:

Seattle, WA (BLUE state, by a lot)
New York, NY (BLUE state)
San Francisco, CA (BLUE state, by a lot)
Colorado (BLUE state)
Chicago, IL; Detroit, MI; and New Orleans, LA (BLUEST sector of a red state, but ALL with Democratic governors)

Then look at the second map in the link I gave, with the "hidden hot spots":
Mississippi, Nashville, and southern Georgia fit the narrative, but what about:

Vermont?  BLUE State (and home to Mr. Sanders, though Republican governor)
Atlanta?  BLUE sector of a red state.
Virginia/Maryland?  BLUE state.
Montana? Red state but BLUE governor

We here in Connecticut are being warned that we're the next big one.  BLUE state.

Seems to me that this virus doesn't check your voter enrollment card before digging in (just trying to be funny; there's no statement there).   

[KevShmev]

Brooke Baldwin has tested positive.

My condolences, Stadler.

[hefdaddy42]

Your love of Kiss is a bit of a problem, but it's not at the point of concern.......yet.

Speak for yourself.  I have privately been concerned for some time now.

So you two HAVE been talking to my wife.  It makes perfect sense now. 

This working from home is AWESOME, though, in that I don't have to take my makeup off to go to work anymore.  There's something very satisfying in negotiating a contract in Kiss makeup.

[bosk1]

Let's keep the P/R talk in the P/R forum, please.  Most people who come to this side don't come here for that.