Coronavirus

[ProfessorPeart]

This Hobby Lobby guy really needs to grow a brain. Tired of him defying orders in favor of 'god's will'.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/hobby-lobby-keeps-disobeying-state-stay-at-home-orders-arts-and-crafts.html

Several states are having to waste time fighting this company to stay closed when they could be focusing on other things.

Although I certainly agree that Hobby Lobby is being very careless and I whole heartedly condemn that sort of business practice, I also disagree with the assumption the article made that they are doing this because of their interpretation of the will of God.

Nowhere in the article does Hobby Lobby specifically state they are doing this out of some religious mission.  That is a cherry picked quote that Slate used at the end of the article.  It sounds to me that Hobby Lobby was just trying to comunicate comfort to it's employees during a difficult time.  I am not a fan of agenda driven journalism.

And, ProfessorPeart, I also want you to know that I'm not arguing with you, I'm arguing with how the article is written.  What Hobby Lobby is doing makes me angry as well.

I did not see that assumption or claim made in the article.  The article does not suggest the quote is the motivation for the actions.  That link is an assumption made by the reader, not the writer.

EDIT: And I think it is stupid what he is doing regardless of the reasons.  But history shows the reasons probably have some religious component IMO.

Sorry, I was quoting other articles I have seen about this. They have been in the news for a slew of issues and complaints, leaked memos' etc.

The communication to staff came days after the arts-and-crafts company’s founder David Green sent a letter to reassure employees, saying God “will guide us through this storm.”

Green’s letter to employees dated March 19 said his wife, Barbara, had received a message from God telling the chain to stay open.

“We serve a God who will Guide us through this storm, who will Guard us as we travel to places never seen before, and who, as a result of this experience, will Groom us to be better than we could have ever thought possible before now,” according to The Christian Post.

One of many articles you can find on the subject.

https://www.ajc.com/news/hobby-lobby-accused-reopening-several-stores-defiance-shutdown-orders/rbUort7S1rbEJGhnAx9rkI/

EDIT: This just goes in line with all of the stories I keep reading of pastors violating the order and holding church services. They really seem to have a hard time grasping this. We had a pastor die up here and some 40+ people in another congregation all come down with it.

[Podaar]

I live in Utah where all the Mormon churches and temples are closed until further notice. The liquor stores are all still open though. Strange times, man.

[Northern Lion]

This Hobby Lobby guy really needs to grow a brain. Tired of him defying orders in favor of 'god's will'.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/hobby-lobby-keeps-disobeying-state-stay-at-home-orders-arts-and-crafts.html

Several states are having to waste time fighting this company to stay closed when they could be focusing on other things.

Although I certainly agree that Hobby Lobby is being very careless and I whole heartedly condemn that sort of business practice, I also disagree with the assumption the article made that they are doing this because of their interpretation of the will of God.

Nowhere in the article does Hobby Lobby specifically state they are doing this out of some religious mission.  That is a cherry picked quote that Slate used at the end of the article.  It sounds to me that Hobby Lobby was just trying to comunicate comfort to it's employees during a difficult time.  I am not a fan of agenda driven journalism.

And, ProfessorPeart, I also want you to know that I'm not arguing with you, I'm arguing with how the article is written.  What Hobby Lobby is doing makes me angry as well.

I did not see that assumption or claim made in the article.  The article does not suggest the quote is the motivation for the actions.  That link is an assumption made by the reader, not the writer.

EDIT: And I think it is stupid what he is doing regardless of the reasons.  But history shows the reasons probably have some religious component IMO.

Sorry, I was quoting other articles I have seen about this. They have been in the news for a slew of issues and complaints, leaked memos' etc.

The communication to staff came days after the arts-and-crafts company’s founder David Green sent a letter to reassure employees, saying God “will guide us through this storm.”

Green’s letter to employees dated March 19 said his wife, Barbara, had received a message from God telling the chain to stay open.

“We serve a God who will Guide us through this storm, who will Guard us as we travel to places never seen before, and who, as a result of this experience, will Groom us to be better than we could have ever thought possible before now,” according to The Christian Post.

One of many articles you can find on the subject.

https://www.ajc.com/news/hobby-lobby-accused-reopening-several-stores-defiance-shutdown-orders/rbUort7S1rbEJGhnAx9rkI/

EDIT: This just goes in line with all of the stories I keep reading of pastors violating the order and holding church services. They really seem to have a hard time grasping this. We had a pastor die up here and some 40+ people in another congregation all come down with it.

Well, I stand corrected.  Thanks for the added context and info ProfessorPeart.  Being a religious man myself, I STRONGLY disapprove of people doing this kind of junk in the name of God.  It makes me sick actually.

My church has had all it's buildings closed for the past month and told all of us members to have our own church at home until all this passes.  We aren't having any activities, youth groups, anything.  That, in my opinion, is how religious ferver responds responsibly and Christlke.

[lonestar]

I live in Utah where all the Mormon churches and temples are closed until further notice. The liquor stores are all still open though. Strange times, man.

I had this discussion with recovery friends of mine, and liquor has to be available. Last thing we need in the middle of this health crisis is alcoholics (and there are so many more than any of us can imagine) going into withdrawal, and alcoholic withdrawal is a horrific experience which can be very deadly. I'm not sure if that's the thinking behind it, but it's for sure a repurcussion if they close them.

[cramx3]

I live in Utah where all the Mormon churches and temples are closed until further notice. The liquor stores are all still open though. Strange times, man.

I had this discussion with recovery friends of mine, and liquor has to be available. Last thing we need in the middle of this health crisis is alcoholics (and there are so many more than any of us can imagine) going into withdrawal, and alcoholic withdrawal is a horrific experience which can be very deadly. I'm not sure if that's the thinking behind it, but it's for sure a repurcussion if they close them.

That's a fair point but I think it's just as simple as people are bored and alcohol will help keep people home.  I say this as I drink a margarita now that I am home. 

I stopped at Target which is next to where I work since it was my first time outside the house in a full week and I think I was the only one without a face mask. 

[ProfessorPeart]

Well, I stand corrected.  Thanks for the added context and info ProfessorPeart.  Being a religious man myself, I STRONGLY disapprove of people doing this kind of junk in the name of God.  It makes me sick actually.

My church has had all it's buildings closed for the past month and told all of us members to have our own church at home until all this passes.  We aren't having any activities, youth groups, anything.  That, in my opinion, is how religious ferver responds responsibly and Christlke.

Yeah, I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs, religious or otherwise. But there has to come a time when common sense overrides everything else. This is not the time to keep your crafts store open all because God told your wife to during a pandemic.

Not to mention all of the other things we are seeing coming out from that chain where they seem to be trying to stiff their employees. It gives the appearance, at least to me, that they are using religion as a guise to make sure they keep the money coming in. Not very godlike, in my opinion.

[Harmony]

I recently saw a pastor of one of those large megachurches say the reason they had cancelled services (they are doing them online now) is because the lord gave them brains for a reason.  To use them.  I thought that was a pretty good line. 

[Adami]

It's also not just Christians. In Israel, while the head Rabbis have all said to stop, a lot of the ultra-Orthodox communities are trying (very hard) to have business as usual. Government is finally stepping in, but decided not to for a long time cause it would cost them political points. Lovely stuff.

[Harmony]

It angers me that people are knowingly putting others at risk.  Or worse yet, denying this is even a real problem.  The conspiracy theorists are out in droves on social media.  It is so fucking scary how incredibly stupid some people are.

[cramx3]

It's also not just Christians. In Israel, while the head Rabbis have all said to stop, a lot of the ultra-Orthodox communities are trying (very hard) to have business as usual. Government is finally stepping in, but decided not to for a long time cause it would cost them political points. Lovely stuff.

The hasidic jewish communities in NJ are completely disregarding the laws.  Cops are having to break up their parties.  I feel so bad for the cops who have to deal with this stuff, there's so many more important things than having to tell people to stop gathering.  https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/heres-why-large-gatherings-keep-happening-in-lakewood-as-the-coronavirus-rages-in-nj.html

[Adami]

Yea, the super ultra orthodox piss me off to no end. In any country.

[Orbert]

Our church cancelled services two weeks before the official shutdown, and has been holding services online.  Our pastor basically sits there in her house, talks, does the readings, all that good stuff, and people watch over the Internet.  I'm sure we're not the only ones doing it that way.

This whole "God will see us through" and "God will protect us" just reminds me of the story about the guy in the flood.  He ignored the warnings on the news, told the guys in the boat trying to rescue him that "God will save him" and told the guys in the helicopter the same thing.  When he got to Heaven, he complained to St. Peter that he thought God would save him.  St. Peter said "We gave you warnings, sent a boat, and even a helicopter.  What else did you want us to do?"

[ErHaO]

Thanks for the reactions last page, thankfully I am pretty much fever free now! And my lungs feel pretty good too. But all in all it took me two weeks, though initially I thought I just had a massive headache due to whatever.

SO glad you are feeling better, dude.  That's great!

I do hope it was corona, because that would mean I am safe now and able to help during the crisis.

Even if it was confirmed to be, you should still be VERY careful and not drop your guard.  I'm not a doctor, so I may be a bit off on this, but as I understand it, with ANY cold (not just this one), just because you catch it and recover does not mean you have complete immunity.  It only means you have developed some level of immunity, and it is still possible to catch the same strain, and develop symptoms and/or be a carrier, again.  So PLEASE play it safe!

Seriously....what Bosk said. 

I believe I've seen some reports that there is more than one strain of this, and doctors are not yet positive that you can't get it twice.  There are reports of people getting it twice that are still under investigation.

Yes, that is a very good point and valid concern! I must not be too enhousiastic, even if I have had it, because in the end I am also an asthma patient, so I am in a risk group.

In general, I will follow the advice of my own supervisor at work and the general guidelines of my workplace (which are updated daily now). My supervisor also oversees the diagnostic testing of many pathogens (and some her direct colleagues will be working on corona), so if tests arrive, she will be up to date. Especially in a hospital setting they will want to test their employees if they are immune, if such a test arrives. But all of this will take time.

And yes, there are variants of the virus with slightly different genetics out there right now. But from what I gather, these genetic differences so far have been minimal. But then again, the mechanisms of this virus are poorly understood, so the exact effects are likely unknown and to be determined. I pray this virus does not have a strong antigenic drift.

[Anguyen92]

My church has had all it's buildings closed for the past month and told all of us members to have our own church at home until all this passes.  We aren't having any activities, youth groups, anything.  That, in my opinion, is how religious ferver responds responsibly and Christlke.

Yep, this is a rather tough decision for churches to do, especially around the Lent/Easter period, but they know to be responsible when it comes to the well-being of their communities which should be more important than everyone gathering in an area at once to hear the messages because apparently God says it's a sin to do otherwise.

Our church cancelled services two weeks before the official shutdown, and has been holding services online.  Our pastor basically sits there in her house, talks, does the readings, all that good stuff, and people watch over the Internet.  I'm sure we're not the only ones doing it that way.

This whole "God will see us through" and "God will protect us" just reminds me of the story about the guy in the flood.  He ignored the warnings on the news, told the guys in the boat trying to rescue him that "God will save him" and told the guys in the helicopter the same thing.  When he got to Heaven, he complained to St. Peter that he thought God would save him.  St. Peter said "We gave you warnings, sent a boat, and even a helicopter.  What else did you want us to do?"

Exactly.

[The Walrus]

Second case confirmed in my town today. Foot traffic at work is almost back to normal and I am getting nervous. Judging by all the cars on the road today I fear everyone thought this was like a temporary thing or they all think they won't get it, because it only seemed to keep people inside for all of 2 days. Sigh

[Lonk]

Second case confirmed in my town today. Foot traffic at work is almost back to normal and I am getting nervous. Judging by all the cars on the road today I fear everyone thought this was like a temporary thing or they all think they won't get it, because it only seemed to keep people inside for all of 2 days. Sigh

Stay safe, it looks like this is gonna drag all across the country for a few months.

[Cool Chris]

So... the virus in prisons/jails is starting to become an issue.

[black_biff_stadler]

One of the biggest issues is that a powerful American authority figure downplayed this from jump street so many of that "person"'s followers have used that as a permanent excuse to fight for "muh freedom" and won't do shit to help prevent its spread until a cop holds them at gun point and says "Go home or go to jail."

[Cool Chris]

Those people would feel that way regardless of who is in the big chair.

[Adami]

Those people would feel that way regardless of who is in the big chair.

Some. But not the people Floyd’s referring to.

[black_biff_stadler]

Those people would feel that way regardless of who is in the big chair.

Yes and no. They would still be belligerent dumb fucks, no doubt, but 45 is like a folk hero to them so they get riled up and fervent over anything that they feel helps them assert dominance, intimidate others, or generally get at others.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

There are people who, absolutely non-jokingly, said that the whole thing was a hoax to make Trump look bad.

[MirrorMask]

There are people who, absolutely non-jokingly, said that the whole thing was a hoax to make Trump look bad.

I saw reported a tweet of a random teen girl who said "My mum said that maybe this lockdown is God's message to me to not spend so much time out.... so sorry everyone, this global pandemic it's my fault for going to parties, my bad"   


Anyway, if you like graphics and you're curious to see how the moblity has changed, Google spied us all (but anonymously) and offered a lot of statistis about it:

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

[Max Kuehnau]

There are people who, absolutely non-jokingly, said that the whole thing was a hoax to make Trump look bad.

I saw reported a tweet of a random teen girl who said "My mum said that maybe this lockdown is God's message to me to not spend so much time out.... so sorry everyone, this global pandemic it's my fault for going to parties, my bad"   


Anyway, if you like graphics and you're curious to see how the moblity has changed, Google spied us all (but anonymously) and offered a lot of statistis about it:

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

that's so Monty Pythonian in more ways than one.

[jingle.boy]

Fascinating.

[The Walrus]

We have a contract with the county police fixing a bunch of their cars. Champaign just confirmed a cop has COVID-19. Now I am panicking about them potentially spreading it to us. They just dropped a car off this week. I'm going to have a panic attack again. I can feel it.

TGIF.

[jingle.boy]

Damn dude. If you have to drive the vehicle, lots of hand washing ... don’t touch ur face

And for those that haven’t seen why hand washing is the 2nd best defence (physical distancing being the best), this helped me grasp it.

https://youtu.be/-LKVUarhtvE

[The Walrus]

I have to fucking deep clean every car that comes in. Wearing my N95 and gloves all day starting now.

[jingle.boy]

I have to fucking deep clean every car that comes in. Wearing my N95 and gloves all day starting now.

Fuck.   

[Zydar]

I'm going to try working from home on Monday. We'll see how it goes.

[Orbert]

Working from home is awesome if you have a job you can do remotely.  The other day, my wife and I finally went for a walk, and I realized that I hadn't put my jeans and shoes on for two weeks.  Been in sweats and slippers all day, every day.

[Stadler]

One of the biggest issues is that a powerful American authority figure downplayed this from jump street so many of that "person"'s followers have used that as a permanent excuse to fight for "muh freedom" and won't do shit to help prevent its spread until a cop holds them at gun point and says "Go home or go to jail."

Please.   Those spring breakers are hardly Trump's demographic.   I live in a very blue state and there are PLENTY of people here that would vote for [name your odious option] over Donald Trump and didn't give fuck one about the suggestions and guidelines until Ned Lamont, our governor, said "ENOUGH". 

[Adami]

One of the biggest issues is that a powerful American authority figure downplayed this from jump street so many of that "person"'s followers have used that as a permanent excuse to fight for "muh freedom" and won't do shit to help prevent its spread until a cop holds them at gun point and says "Go home or go to jail."

Please.   Those spring breakers are hardly Trump's demographic.   I live in a very blue state and there are PLENTY of people here that would vote for [name your odious option] over Donald Trump and didn't give fuck one about the suggestions and guidelines until Ned Lamont, our governor, said "ENOUGH".

Again, he specifically said his followers, not everybody in America that didn't follow the guidelines.

[jammindude]

I've been in a bit of a tough spot lately with this whole thing.

Forgive me if there is a bit of "info dump" here, but I can't think of a short way to sum this up.  It's just too much.

For about 2 years now, I've been helping and giving spiritual guidance to a good friend.  He has been engaged to my wife's niece for several years and living with her for the past 6 or 7 years.  (she's family...and we do love her dearly...but she is "Jerry Springer" levels of drama, baggage, and temperament).   He lost his job at Microsoft several years ago when he started having more problems with his diabetes.   They "eliminated his position".    Due to complications from his diabetes, he lost all kidney function, has gone about 80-90% blind, and has even suffered from stroke and now walks with a cane.   He's 41 years old and used to play fullback in high school football.

Sometime around February, he approached me about helping him move out. The relationship with my wife's niece had gone south and he wanted to move forward with his life.   But there are many many things he can't do for himself, so he sought out my help.  I (and several friends from my congregation) helped him get rid of some debts, and helped him with the paperwork to get into a new apartment his mom had found for him.     The elders from my congregation even gave me some money so we could get him some furniture for his new apartment.   

He moved into the new place on March 7th, just as we were starting to hear that COVID might be getting serious in Washington.  Emerald City Comicon had *just* been cancelled the day before and social distancing was starting to become a more serious thing. My wife and I had had tickets to attend the Comicon, but when it got cancelled we decided to use the extended time off to go to a cabin at the ocean instead.    Sunday the 8th, I took my friend to IKEA so he could pick out a bed and wardrobe for his apartment.  But I didn't have anyone to help me carry all the stuff, and rather than hassle with delivery, I promised my friend we would take care of the whole thing as soon as my wife and I got back from the ocean.  (because....who knew?)

It was while we were at the ocean that weekend that everything started to become extremely serious.  We spent half the time watching the TV as everything started to become far more grim than what we had originally thought.   I went to work the next week, but by the end of the week, I asked for a layoff because of *several* exposures at work and questionable conditions at my jobsite.  It was granted. But now I was in a quandary.   My very good friend has moved into a 260 sq ft apt in south Seattle, he's alone with nothing but a dresser and an air mattress, he's in a high risk group, I've been at a job site with potential exposure, he's got a mother and an aunt who are limited in how much they can help (for reasons I didn't pry into) but those are his only family in the area.  Part of me helping him move out was to help him get a cell phone...but he has trouble using it.   I was going to help him get it set up a little better....but then ALL THIS happened.  We were able to trade a few texts messages, but I could tell he was having difficulty.

Since no one in my family is showing any symptoms (I say that...but I've always had a bit of a dry cough anyway...I'm a construction worker with dust allergies, so that just seems like a normal thing.  But I'm not running a fever) I finally decided to just take some extra hand sanitizer and other extra precautions and just go see how he was doing yesterday.   In spite of all the warnings, I just felt like I couldn't just abandon him to four walls.   He's doing OK, and he occasionally has a couple of friends check on him, but he's not really getting the care he needs. 

At this point, in spite of everything, I'm seriously considering having him stay with my family for the next month.  It would require moving a high risk person into my home...which in some ways seems to go against the whole "quarantine" thing, but I just don't know what else to do.    We do have a guest room (we've been using it for storage, but it has a bed and we would just need a day to clean it up).   

I've literally lost several nights sleep worrying about my friend, and I go back and forth in my mind about whether I should have any personal contact with him or not.    Today is 2 weeks since I asked for my lay off, so the chances would seem remote that anyone in my house has it.   But I just keep thinking about him being high risk, and I can't guarantee with 100% certainty that one or all of us (four in my house already) aren't asymptomatic carriers.   The likelihood is extremely low by now, but it's not zero either.  And with his existing health problems, there is a very real possibility that he could die if he does get it.   But he's getting contact from *other* people that need to check on him too.   So in some ways, coming to my house would probably get him the care he needs and limit his contact to only the 4 people in the house.   So would that be better?   I don't know.   It's now 7am and I've been up for 2 hours because I can't sleep.   

[jingle.boy]

Damn, that's a tough situation.  My first inclination would be more of the concern that *he* may be an asymptomatic carrier, and the risk to you/your family. Even if you are 100% confident he isn't, that doesn't mean he isn't.  Now, I say all of this as mrs.jingle and I have extended an invitation to her mother to stay with us - for a variety of reasons it would lower MIL's risk of infection.  So basically, I have no good advice to extend.