Why don’t people like BMUBMD?

[hefdaddy42]

The whole thing with the Christian rock band was kind of embarrassing though.

Huh?

"Feed the Machine" by Red

[pg1067]

The whole thing with the Christian rock band was kind of embarrassing though.

Huh?

"Feed the Machine" by Red

I couldn't tolerate that for more than about 75 seconds.  Is there more to it than that both songs have 16th note riffs pedaling off a down-tuned 6th string (something that about 537 songs other songs also have in common)?

[bosk1]

I kind of lost track of Red after Release the Panic.  Great band.  Wonder what they're up to...

[hefdaddy42]

The whole thing with the Christian rock band was kind of embarrassing though.

Huh?

"Feed the Machine" by Red

I couldn't tolerate that for more than about 75 seconds.  Is there more to it than that both songs have 16th note riffs pedaling off a down-tuned 6th string (something that about 537 songs other songs also have in common)?

The Red song came first, and JP talked fairly openly about listening to it and being inspired by it during the writing of the album.  Like I said, it's a little too close for me.

[geeeemo]

I'm always glad when people like DT songs.... however, to me BMUBMD is by far the worst song on by far the worst album by DT. 

have to disagree with that. ADTOE is my #2 after Scenes. And I dig BMUBMD and am a huge fan. Have seen them 6 times in 4 years - going to London for my 7th next month! 

[gzarruk]

-Even the usually reliable Petrucci lays down an unimaginative solo which sounds more like an arpeggio exercise more than anything.

But it isn't a solo, it's a guitar/keyboard line, like they've done in a lot other songs (Never Enough, Untethered Angel, etc.). It's a completely different thing.

[The Walrus]

I think that part of BMUBMD rules personally. I wish DT would double down on the guitar-keyboard dual melodies like in that part and Untethered Angel etc.

[Northern Lion]

The whole thing with the Christian rock band was kind of embarrassing though.

Huh?

"Feed the Machine" by Red

I couldn't tolerate that for more than about 75 seconds.  Is there more to it than that both songs have 16th note riffs pedaling off a down-tuned 6th string (something that about 537 songs other songs also have in common)?

The Red song came first, and JP talked fairly openly about listening to it and being inspired by it during the writing of the album.  Like I said, it's a little too close for me.

So I just listened to both songs back to back.  I can see an influence in BMUBMD from Feed the Machine, but, at least to my ears, it's not a large one.  It certainly doesn't sound like a copy/knock off.  I think I could pretty easily enjoy both songs independently of each other.  Just my thoughts though.

[Dublagent66]

I'm always glad when people like DT songs.... however, to me BMUBMD is by far the worst song on by far the worst album by DT. 

It is probably top 3 worst DT songs IMO.     It actually makes me cringe thinking of the chorus right now.

Sorry!     

Listen to Learning to Live or About to Crash and then ask yourself why might a DT fan not like BMUBMD?

No need to apologize.  If it makes you cringe, that's really no one else's problem or concern.  Also, your comparison of LTL and ATC to BMUBMD is not valid because it's possible for any DT fan to like all three, not like all three or any combination in between. 

[hunnus2000]

The whole thing with the Christian rock band was kind of embarrassing though.

Huh?

"Feed the Machine" by Red

I couldn't tolerate that for more than about 75 seconds.  Is there more to it than that both songs have 16th note riffs pedaling off a down-tuned 6th string (something that about 537 songs other songs also have in common)?

The Red song came first, and JP talked fairly openly about listening to it and being inspired by it during the writing of the album.  Like I said, it's a little too close for me.

So I just listened to both songs back to back.  I can see an influence in BMUBMD from Feed the Machine, but, at least to my ears, it's not a large one.  It certainly doesn't sound like a copy/knock off.  I think I could pretty easily enjoy both songs independently of each other.  Just my thoughts though.

Influence being the operative word. Musicians have been doing this FOR A LONG TIME - influenced by other artists. Hell - even Star Wars isn't original and don't get me started over the Blues genre.

Do they sound similar? Sure. Are they good songs? Yes. Do I care? No.

I will say that I really like DT's lyrics better. More concise and succinct.

[hefdaddy42]

The whole thing with the Christian rock band was kind of embarrassing though.

Huh?

"Feed the Machine" by Red

I couldn't tolerate that for more than about 75 seconds.  Is there more to it than that both songs have 16th note riffs pedaling off a down-tuned 6th string (something that about 537 songs other songs also have in common)?

The Red song came first, and JP talked fairly openly about listening to it and being inspired by it during the writing of the album.  Like I said, it's a little too close for me.

So I just listened to both songs back to back.  I can see an influence in BMUBMD from Feed the Machine, but, at least to my ears, it's not a large one.  It certainly doesn't sound like a copy/knock off.  I think I could pretty easily enjoy both songs independently of each other.  Just my thoughts though.

[MoraWintersoul]

BMUBMD's chorus belongs on a JLB solo album for me, and it would have probably been ranked somewhere in the middle of all choruses on all three of them. That's one problem, the other problem is surrounding it with so much, well, Dream Theater stuff. I was glad when they started writing songs that are a liiiittle more to-the-point. I love 6+ minute songs, obviously, hell, I love 10+ minute songs, 20+ minute songs too. But this song, TDEN, some others, outstay their welcome just a bit.

[Peter Mc]

Not listened to BMUBMD in a while but have no recollection of it having an anthemic chorus unless I’m mistaken as to what anthemic is. From memory, it’s a shouty chorus with little or no melody to speak of. When I think of anthemic choruses, I’m thinking Livin On A Prayer or something of that ilk, huge singalong melodic chorus.

I don’t hate it but would never make any kind of DT playlist for me, it’s not remotely a favourite.

This is objectively incorrect. It has a noticeable melody - a stronger melody than in the verses - and the contour of the song takes a noticeable upward spike when the chorus kicks in. The only 'shouty' part is the 'BUILD! ME! UP!' part at the end, but "You build me up, you break me down and leave me fallen to pieces" is melodic af.

You’re quite right, like I said I haven’t listened to it in a while and I could only remember the shouty bit at the end, I was thinking that this was the chorus. Apologies, ignore me and carry on!

[Volante99]

BMUBMD's chorus belongs on a JLB solo album for me, and it would have probably been ranked somewhere in the middle of all choruses on all three of them. That's one problem, the other problem is surrounding it with so much, well, Dream Theater stuff. I was glad when they started writing songs that are a liiiittle more to-the-point. I love 6+ minute songs, obviously, hell, I love 10+ minute songs, 20+ minute songs too. But this song, TDEN, some others, outstay their welcome just a bit.

Agreed here. I think if it were 4 minutes long instead of 6 it would be an improvement. If I were to wear my producer hat, I’d turn Petrucci up, unplug Jordan, let Mangini go full on “Annihilator-mode” and lose the LaBrie shrieks. There’s a kick ass song in there somewhere.

[lovethedrake]

I'm always glad when people like DT songs.... however, to me BMUBMD is by far the worst song on by far the worst album by DT. 

It is probably top 3 worst DT songs IMO.     It actually makes me cringe thinking of the chorus right now.

Sorry!     

Listen to Learning to Live or About to Crash and then ask yourself why might a DT fan not like BMUBMD?

No need to apologize.  If it makes you cringe, that's really no one else's problem or concern.  Also, your comparison of LTL and ATC to BMUBMD is not valid because it's possible for any DT fan to like all three, not like all three or any combination in between. 

Yeah I knew that comment was weak when I wrote it but my point is that many people fell in love with a proggy DT with bright notes and soaring vocals.   BMUBMD is just so different than that in every way imo.  It’s a sluggish NU metal song.

Also... I know people like ADTOE and I actually did also when it first came out.  I just think it’s aged terribly and outside of breaking all illusions I find very few reasons to go back to it.   It’s generic modern DT at its worst.

I will say the Epic Novel part in Lost Not Forgotten is awesome but very short lived.

[lovethedrake]

I just went back and listened to it... I just can’t do it. The vocals are just the opposite of what I like in Labrie.   His vocal performances on the last 3 albums make me wonder if it’s even the same singer on BMUBMD as he’s been fantastic lately.

As you can probably tell... I don’t like when he rasps. It was ok on awake because of how powerful his voice was but now as he’s gotten older the raspy sinister vocal just doesn’t work for me.

[Northern Lion]

One of the things I really love about DT is that the fanbase is so varied in what they like from the band.  I think that is really cool.  There are certainly stand out tracks that I think most of the fanbase would agree on, but I think that number is fairly small.

On ther other hand it seems you can pick almost any DT song and you'll find a group that loves it, a group that thinks it's so so and a group that doesn't like it at all.  I think this thread showcases that pretty well.

I'm not sure we get that kind of variety form too many other bands.  I could be wrong though, I haven't done any deep research or anything.

[pg1067]

On ther other hand it seems you can pick almost any DT song and you'll find a group that loves it, a group that thinks it's so so and a group that doesn't like it at all.  I think this thread showcases that pretty well.

Someone should start the "why don't people like The Great Debate?" thread!


But yeah, I think you're spot on, although there are some songs at the top of the list that are almost universally loved.  I don't think I've ever heard any DT fan say, "Learning to Live is trash!"

[Herrick]

BMUBMD is really good but I don't like those awful shrieks

You mean the BUILD - ME - UP!!! parts? I completely removed them playing around with a sound editor and the songs works just fine without them.

That's awesome. I would love to remove the stupid news clips from The Great Debate.

[geeeemo]

For me, I like all the Dream Theater songs as they are.  Like a painting - art - it is what they created. And as far as samples, growling, different vocal styles, "noodling", that all makes Dream Theater, Dream Theater. They have texture and variety. I am never bored - which happens with other bands I like. 

[Lupton]

For me, I like all the Dream Theater songs as they are.  Like a painting - art - it is what they created. And as far as samples, growling, different vocal styles, "noodling", that all makes Dream Theater, Dream Theater. They have texture and variety. I am never bored - which happens with other bands I like.

  Well said. I've come to appreciate just about everything they've done (on some level at least). Some of their music I absolutely love. Other songs are just sort of there, but I always find something interesting to latch onto when I listen back.

[Max Kuehnau]

I do like the song though.

[Volante99]

For me, I like all the Dream Theater songs as they are.  Like a painting - art - it is what they created. And as far as samples, growling, different vocal styles, "noodling", that all makes Dream Theater, Dream Theater. They have texture and variety. I am never bored - which happens with other bands I like.

That’s true, but like any great art it’s ALSO fun to pick it apart and rip it to shreds 

[bosk1]

like any great art it’s ALSO fun to pick it apart and rip it to shreds

What a bizarre and unhealthy way of appreciating art.

[gzarruk]

For me, I like all the Dream Theater songs as they are.  Like a painting - art - it is what they created. And as far as samples, growling, different vocal styles, "noodling", that all makes Dream Theater, Dream Theater. They have texture and variety. I am never bored - which happens with other bands I like.

For DT, this is my take. Even when there's some songs I don't like as much as others, there's always something to enjoy about them.

... not all can be favorites, though

[Volante99]

like any great art it’s ALSO fun to pick it apart and rip it to shreds

What a bizarre and unhealthy way of appreciating art.

It’s called “criticism” ; the discussion on the value and aesthetics of art and it has a tradition probably going as far back as when our ancestors painted on caves. Going beyond appreciation and making judgements is neither unhealthy and certainly not bizarre.

[EPIC Outro]

I've always loved BMUBMD and was surprised when I perceived alot of dislike for it from others when it came out.

But I dig it. Dig the shrieks, dig the keyboard/guitar unison, dig the chorus.

A great song!

[Revenge319]

I find myself asking this, not just with BMUBMD, but with almost every single Dream Theater has released, from Systematic Chaos to The Astonishing. They're all widely disliked by fans, but I cannot understand why.
The best example I can give is The Enemy Inside; amazing song, easily within my Top 30 DT songs, but it seems like barely anyone else likes it, and I have no idea why. Same goes for A Rite of Passage; I like it even better than TEI, but it feels like nobody else enjoys it.

[gzarruk]

I find myself asking this, not just with BMUBMD, but with almost every single Dream Theater has released, from Systematic Chaos to The Astonishing. They're all widely disliked by fans, but I cannot understand why.
The best example I can give is The Enemy Inside; amazing song, easily within my Top 30 DT songs, but it seems like barely anyone else likes it, and I have no idea why. Same goes for A Rite of Passage; I like it even better than TEI, but it feels like nobody else enjoys it.

Agree on everything except AROP
The only interesting part of the song is the instrumental section and it feels like it was lifted from somewhere else and put there just because. The rest of the song just doesn't do it for me, specially Mike's vocals and the Bebot solo.

The guitar solo is tho.

[pg1067]

I find myself asking this, not just with BMUBMD, but with almost every single Dream Theater has released, from Systematic Chaos to The Astonishing. They're all widely disliked by fans, but I cannot understand why.
The best example I can give is The Enemy Inside; amazing song, easily within my Top 30 DT songs, but it seems like barely anyone else likes it, and I have no idea why. Same goes for A Rite of Passage; I like it even better than TEI, but it feels like nobody else enjoys it.

I don't know where you're getting your information to support the two highlighted comments.  I think it is true that the "singles" have ultimately proven not to be the consensus favorite songs on the various albums, but I think saying they're "all widely disliked" is untrue (except as it pertains to AROP).

[Max Kuehnau]

I find myself asking this, not just with BMUBMD, but with almost every single Dream Theater has released, from Systematic Chaos to The Astonishing. They're all widely disliked by fans, but I cannot understand why.
The best example I can give is The Enemy Inside; amazing song, easily within my Top 30 DT songs, but it seems like barely anyone else likes it, and I have no idea why. Same goes for A Rite of Passage; I like it even better than TEI, but it feels like nobody else enjoys it.

I don't know where you're getting your information to support the two highlighted comments.  I think it is true that the "singles" have ultimately proven not to be the consensus favorite songs on the various albums, but I think saying they're "all widely disliked" is untrue (except as it pertains to AROP).

This. Thanks.

[Rob24]

I find myself asking this, not just with BMUBMD, but with almost every single Dream Theater has released, from Systematic Chaos to The Astonishing. They're all widely disliked by fans, but I cannot understand why.
The best example I can give is The Enemy Inside; amazing song, easily within my Top 30 DT songs, but it seems like barely anyone else likes it, and I have no idea why. Same goes for A Rite of Passage; I like it even better than TEI, but it feels like nobody else enjoys it.

I don't know where you're getting your information to support the two highlighted comments.  I think it is true that the "singles" have ultimately proven not to be the consensus favorite songs on the various albums, but I think saying they're "all widely disliked" is untrue (except as it pertains to AROP).

Well, it did always seem to me like On the Backs of Angels & The Enemy Inside were a bit underrated, as in reduced to something like a "good single which features all of DT's trademarks" instead of the excellent microcosms of atmospheric chord progressions, strong lyrics, lots of emotional power and just overall profoundness that they are. Ofc, this is all subjective, but that's how I experience those songs. Untethered Angel would fall into a similar category if the vocals wouldn't sound so overprocessed.

To BMUBMD: I always really enjoyed it, but I can see how the more concise, structured songs kind of fall out of the pattern that DT usually follows and thus don't appeal to some of the fans in the same way. 

[lovethedrake]

Dream Theater 's influences have a changed a lot over the years.   When they first started they were into Yes, Marillion, Genesis, Rush combined with a heavier sound like Metallica.   That is what made people fall in love with them back in the 90's.

Over the years their influences have expanded to included several bands that are quite different.

A song like BMUBMD does not sound like any of the bands I listed above.     A song like the Enemy Inside is basically just a straight up metal song.   

I personally don't like BMUBMD or TEI because they don't resemble the reason I got into DT in the first place.  Does't mean they are bad, just could explain the confusion as to why some people, myself included, don't enjoy those types of songs by DT.

[gzarruk]

Dream Theater 's influences have a changed a lot over the years.   When they first started they were into Yes, Marillion, Genesis, Rush combined with a heavier sound like Metallica.   That is what made people fall in love with them back in the 90's.

Over the years their influences have expanded to included several bands that are quite different.

A song like BMUBMD does not sound like any of the bands I listed above.     A song like the Enemy Inside is basically just a straight up metal song.   

I personally don't like BMUBMD or TEI because they don't resemble the reason I got into DT in the first place.  Does't mean they are bad, just could explain the confusion as to why some people, myself included, don't enjoy those types of songs by DT.

However, the Mangini era has been much more "classic DT" than the albums from TOT to BC&SL. ADTOE was a huge return to form for them.

[Architeuthis]

I think it's quite a nice song!  It's not the best on the album but it is very unique and sounds cool at high volumes!